| This may not be very popular 21:39 - Mar 3 with 7794 views | nodge_blue |
But I thought that was a great email from Evans.
He set out how he continues to financially prop up the club even through covid. He has appointed a new manager. He's doing stuff to the ground. And he won't sell us out to anybody for the sake of it.
fair play to him.
Yes he's failed on the pitch and that is huge. But with this manager in place hopefully we can success regardless of whether its Evans or this American consortium behind it.
And lets not overlook that the consortium, whilst fresh and keen, would by the sounds of it be loading us up with debt that has to be paid back.
So Im not disappointed or pleased if the take over happens. The important think was getting rid of Lambert. [Post edited 3 Mar 2021 21:39]
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| This may not be very popular on 09:53 - Mar 4 with 2211 views | MonkeyAlan |
It's interesting how many down votes those who are dissing Evans are getting over that statement. Shows how many fans still hang on his every word. I fully expect season ticket sales to go well. Evans knows exactly what he is doing. |  | | |
| This may not be very popular on 09:55 - Mar 4 with 2204 views | MonkeyAlan |
| This may not be very popular on 07:44 - Mar 4 by Simonds92 |
"There were some points raised by Paul that I will take on board and look at when the time is right but while it pains me to say it - and hopefully not for long - we are a League One club playing football in the middle of a pandemic and we have to operate accordingly. The time is not right to fiddle while Rome burns."
Surely in this context the analogy is perfectly reasonable and makes sense? He cant ignore what's going on in the world right now and continue to fund and expand what is a hugely bloated and expensive first team. Suggests PL was after even more despite imo us having the best squad in the division. |
I would have thought Evans has been fiddling whilst Rome burns for the last 13 years! | | | |
| This may not be very popular on 09:56 - Mar 4 with 2199 views | chicoazul |
| This may not be very popular on 09:53 - Mar 4 by MonkeyAlan |
It's interesting how many down votes those who are dissing Evans are getting over that statement. Shows how many fans still hang on his every word. I fully expect season ticket sales to go well. Evans knows exactly what he is doing. |
Yes he does doesn’t he. Look at all our success under his magnificent stewardship. |  |
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| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 09:59 - Mar 4 with 2189 views | HighgateBlue |
You claimed that what has actually been put in is "far short" of what "almost every Ipswich fan believes". That's quite a big claim, and if you're right it's important that we are set straight. You're saying that almost all of us are wrong, but you're right. That's quite a position of hubris right there.
Phil reported that the debt to Marcus will have climbed to £100m by now. How can that be the case if ME has only put in £2m a year? He has plainly put a simply huge amount of money into the Club since he bought the £32m debt in 2007. Is Phil wrong on the £100m figure?
I'm well aware of the accounts on Companies House, which of course only go up to 2019. Naturally the figures vary quite substantially from year to year, but I still do not see where you get your £585k figure from for the y/e 2019. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
You claimed that the OP was "that easily fooled". Why not just politely point out what you consider to be the inaccuracies in ME's email, rather than snidely implying that this person has been made a fool of, or is gullible? I'd be very interested to hear what part of ME you think people like me have been fooled by. I agree with you, of course, about the examples of unwise spending decisions by ME. But I don't see what financial matters he's supposed to be lying about in his email (the caveat being that he may well be prevented by an NDA from coming clean about whether a takeover is happening, and so it's likely that he's not coming clean here, but we all know this is a possibility). |  | | |
| This may not be very popular on 10:03 - Mar 4 with 2173 views | MonkeyAlan |
| This may not be very popular on 09:56 - Mar 4 by chicoazul |
Yes he does doesn’t he. Look at all our success under his magnificent stewardship. |
I'm with you, lm just saying he knows how gullible some of our fans are. | | | |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 10:19 - Mar 4 with 2163 views | dirtyboy |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 09:59 - Mar 4 by HighgateBlue |
You claimed that what has actually been put in is "far short" of what "almost every Ipswich fan believes". That's quite a big claim, and if you're right it's important that we are set straight. You're saying that almost all of us are wrong, but you're right. That's quite a position of hubris right there.
Phil reported that the debt to Marcus will have climbed to £100m by now. How can that be the case if ME has only put in £2m a year? He has plainly put a simply huge amount of money into the Club since he bought the £32m debt in 2007. Is Phil wrong on the £100m figure?
I'm well aware of the accounts on Companies House, which of course only go up to 2019. Naturally the figures vary quite substantially from year to year, but I still do not see where you get your £585k figure from for the y/e 2019. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
You claimed that the OP was "that easily fooled". Why not just politely point out what you consider to be the inaccuracies in ME's email, rather than snidely implying that this person has been made a fool of, or is gullible? I'd be very interested to hear what part of ME you think people like me have been fooled by. I agree with you, of course, about the examples of unwise spending decisions by ME. But I don't see what financial matters he's supposed to be lying about in his email (the caveat being that he may well be prevented by an NDA from coming clean about whether a takeover is happening, and so it's likely that he's not coming clean here, but we all know this is a possibility). |
The fact that reserves are (£95m) shows that the club has to be supported by external cash and that has to have come from ME.
We can argue all day as to the effectiveness of the spending, but the fact is, he's probably, by today, lost £100m on our club. |  | | |
| This may not be very popular on 10:36 - Mar 4 with 2150 views | Squeezy78 |
Anyone who buys any of that drivel that came out of that mans mouth yesterday and thinks we will be "ok" now. Sorry but you are delusional, maybe desperate. Even with Cook at the helm, which yes I think is a great appointment, won't make a difference. This club is rotten at the core i.e Evans. You could get Pep in to manage if you wanted! Until that man is gone and new owners are in with a) money (real money) to invest b)structure and strategy and c)passion then we will forever languish in League 1/Championship. I hope to god this takeover is still on, I really do. If not, this will be the biggest anti climax since I lost my virginity.. |  | | |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 10:36 - Mar 4 with 2151 views | HighgateBlue |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 10:19 - Mar 4 by dirtyboy |
The fact that reserves are (£95m) shows that the club has to be supported by external cash and that has to have come from ME.
We can argue all day as to the effectiveness of the spending, but the fact is, he's probably, by today, lost £100m on our club. |
Yes, that bottom line point was essentially my understanding.
Just to be clear, I have no desire to argue about the effectiveness of the spending. I think we can all agree that the state of the squad, and our league position, is something of a disappointment considering our budget compared with numerous clubs sitting above us. (Norwich sitting way clear of the Championship having been in league one towards the start of the ME period is a stark example).
The argument here seems to be that almost all of us are wrong as to how much has been put in. That's an important point. If ME has put hardly any money in, then he has basically no merit at all. If he has put in tens of millions to keep the club afloat as a professional concern, then he was well-intentioned, despite the numerous mistakes that have been made. I for one think there's a very important difference there, especially given the context for ME's investment in the club was a club that had not that long ago been in administration and facing an existential crisis. | | | |
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| This may not be very popular on 10:54 - Mar 4 with 2124 views | haynes_toe1 |
eVaNz sed sum n1c3 STUfFz to uS sO WE lUVs h1m aGen!! | | | |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 10:56 - Mar 4 with 2123 views | FrankfurtBlue |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 09:59 - Mar 4 by HighgateBlue |
You claimed that what has actually been put in is "far short" of what "almost every Ipswich fan believes". That's quite a big claim, and if you're right it's important that we are set straight. You're saying that almost all of us are wrong, but you're right. That's quite a position of hubris right there.
Phil reported that the debt to Marcus will have climbed to £100m by now. How can that be the case if ME has only put in £2m a year? He has plainly put a simply huge amount of money into the Club since he bought the £32m debt in 2007. Is Phil wrong on the £100m figure?
I'm well aware of the accounts on Companies House, which of course only go up to 2019. Naturally the figures vary quite substantially from year to year, but I still do not see where you get your £585k figure from for the y/e 2019. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
You claimed that the OP was "that easily fooled". Why not just politely point out what you consider to be the inaccuracies in ME's email, rather than snidely implying that this person has been made a fool of, or is gullible? I'd be very interested to hear what part of ME you think people like me have been fooled by. I agree with you, of course, about the examples of unwise spending decisions by ME. But I don't see what financial matters he's supposed to be lying about in his email (the caveat being that he may well be prevented by an NDA from coming clean about whether a takeover is happening, and so it's likely that he's not coming clean here, but we all know this is a possibility). |
Stated debt and cash injected are not the same. Debt can be accrued in many ways. ME purchased £32m of it from Aviva for reportedly £6m, but ITFC saw none of that money from Evans. Only if/when ME writes off that debt, do ITFC benefit, otherwise £32m is still on the books and would have to be fully repaid to ME out of revenues after a prolonged stay in the EPL. ME capitalised the costs of issuing the original loan notes and capitalised interest on them for the first 4-5 years. Millions added to the debt for which ITFC saw no benefit.
Nobody is saying he didn't put significant sums of cash into ITFC, especially in the early years when he was putting in excess of £6m p.a. However, in the last 5 reported financial years, the cashflow statements show that ME has loaned ITFC £232k 2014/15, £250k 2015/16, £2.9m 2016/17, £6.1m 2017/18, and £585k 2018/19. That is £10m over 5 years, which makes an average cash injection of £2m p.a. in the last 5 years.
But I was attempting not to get hooked up on the finances. It is what he has done with the money that is far more important. Everyone can have their opinion on decisions he has made, right or wrong at ITFC, but one thing is fact. He has brought us to the worst place we have been since 1952/53. I would argue that it is somewhat foolish to ignore that little fact! |  | | |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 10:58 - Mar 4 with 2112 views | WeWereZombies |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 09:51 - Mar 4 by FrankfurtBlue |
What they are legally capable of manipulating will be limited. The order of the loans declared in the cashflow statements will not be greatly different from what actually happened. |
True, the cashflow statement provides a good lock on the figures within the P&L and the balance sheet. But if business was simply a matter of plugging number into a business plan and then backing that up with funds then everyone would be winners (well, until inflation and interest rates soared.) The difference between winners and losers comes down to awareness of markets and 'existential threats' plus timing.
We have seen in the Weinstein and Epstein scandals how non disclosure agreements can set corporate law against criminal law. Those are extreme cases but I found in my corporate life that just running the numbers gives a partial view. Digging down into contract wording gives a clearer picture (providing that you have the head for wading through the terminology and understanding the implications - and access to the contracts) but you still need something of the dark art of reading the intentions of the main players to really understand what is going on. |  |
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| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 11:07 - Mar 4 with 2105 views | FrankfurtBlue |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 10:58 - Mar 4 by WeWereZombies |
True, the cashflow statement provides a good lock on the figures within the P&L and the balance sheet. But if business was simply a matter of plugging number into a business plan and then backing that up with funds then everyone would be winners (well, until inflation and interest rates soared.) The difference between winners and losers comes down to awareness of markets and 'existential threats' plus timing.
We have seen in the Weinstein and Epstein scandals how non disclosure agreements can set corporate law against criminal law. Those are extreme cases but I found in my corporate life that just running the numbers gives a partial view. Digging down into contract wording gives a clearer picture (providing that you have the head for wading through the terminology and understanding the implications - and access to the contracts) but you still need something of the dark art of reading the intentions of the main players to really understand what is going on. |
Sorry, but I fail to see the relevance of anything you wrote after the first sentence. | | | |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 11:12 - Mar 4 with 2084 views | WeWereZombies |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 11:07 - Mar 4 by FrankfurtBlue |
Sorry, but I fail to see the relevance of anything you wrote after the first sentence. |
Ho hum, I guess you are not on my wavelength then... | |
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| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 11:25 - Mar 4 with 2055 views | FrankfurtBlue |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 11:12 - Mar 4 by WeWereZombies |
Ho hum, I guess you are not on my wavelength then... |
Clearly not. Sorry!  | | | |
| This may not be very popular on 11:26 - Mar 4 with 2056 views | ghostofescobar |
"Insert managers name" is a problem, Evans is the problem. I'm am a long way from being a financial expert, but it seems the money being put in by Evans is not the "£6mill a year" that seems to have become an accepted fact. But, I genuinely appreciate whatever money he does put in. However, he, and he alone, has slowly killed this club. In many ways, ripped it's heart out. For me, handing over cash is not a 'get out of jail free card' for all the terrible, terrible decisions he's made. I think what Evans said in his email was the bare, absolute minimum you would expect from an owner and no-one should think otherwise. Will new owners be any better? Maybe, maybe not, but they will (have to) try anything to make it work, whereas Evans does next to nothing, and will continue doing next to nothing every single second that he is here. He needs to go. On his watch, we've crumbled. No excuses. |  |
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| This may not be very popular on 11:36 - Mar 4 with 2038 views | tractorboysuffolk |
I agree with you - thought it was well written and covered a number of important topics.
Far too often you see clubs taken-over, asset stripped and dumped.
I took a lot of confidence from the statement I have to say. I think there has to be an element of realism with regard to finances, especially at the current time.
Most important thing is to get behind the new manager, well said. | | | |
| This may not be very popular on 11:42 - Mar 4 with 2034 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| This may not be very popular on 11:36 - Mar 4 by tractorboysuffolk |
I agree with you - thought it was well written and covered a number of important topics.
Far too often you see clubs taken-over, asset stripped and dumped.
I took a lot of confidence from the statement I have to say. I think there has to be an element of realism with regard to finances, especially at the current time.
Most important thing is to get behind the new manager, well said. |
'I took a lot of confidence from the statement' 
Evans must be laughing at the state of some people. They are happy because they have heard a few words from him.
Time and time again some get hooked so easily. |  | | |
| This may not be very popular on 11:45 - Mar 4 with 2026 views | trncbluearmy |
Suppose there is a scenario were he was going to sell but getting PC on board has changed his mind |  | | |
| This may not be very popular on 12:01 - Mar 4 with 1992 views | urbanblue |
| This may not be very popular on 11:45 - Mar 4 by trncbluearmy |
Suppose there is a scenario were he was going to sell but getting PC on board has changed his mind |
Along the lines of what I've been wondering. Has Evans changed his mind on the sale and decided to have one more go .... ?
We've just won three games in a row and are getting back in the promotion mix. New manager in and ... just maybe some of Lambert's home truths have hit home with the comment that he was going to give consideration to his comments.
All guesswork though. We'll just have to wait and see. |  | | |
| This may not be very popular on 12:19 - Mar 4 with 1979 views | Northstandoldie |
| This may not be very popular on 22:58 - Mar 3 by NthQldITFC |
I'm led to believe Matthew Hancock is 'helping' out behind the scenes. |
Talking about Hancock.... I accidently friended him on Facebook the other day and before I knew it I had been awarded 3 government contracts.. |  | | |
| This may not be very popular on 12:51 - Mar 4 with 1933 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| This may not be very popular on 11:36 - Mar 4 by tractorboysuffolk |
I agree with you - thought it was well written and covered a number of important topics.
Far too often you see clubs taken-over, asset stripped and dumped.
I took a lot of confidence from the statement I have to say. I think there has to be an element of realism with regard to finances, especially at the current time.
Most important thing is to get behind the new manager, well said. |
If you think that was well written you must have very low standards. [Post edited 4 Mar 2021 15:22]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| This may not be very popular on 12:53 - Mar 4 with 1927 views | BiGDonnie |
I stopped reading after 'Dear fellow fan'.... Blagger. |  |
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| This may not be very popular on 12:58 - Mar 4 with 1917 views | Ryorry |
| This may not be very popular on 07:47 - Mar 4 by WeWereZombies |
But did he have to mention Lambert at all? I am thinking about this the morning after and wondering if the email was just the first presentation for the defence when the case for unfair dismissal goes to court... |
On that point, I think it's no more than the standard polite comment that always goes with the departure of any manager from any club. We'll never know what was said between the two of them in person, unless one of them took secret recording/s & tries to mint it via publication at some future point!
Otherwise, very much doubt it'd go to court - both of them have plenty of ££££££ & I doubt either would want the stress, entanglement, publicity or to spend considerable amounts of their dosh on lawyers. |  |
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| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 13:31 - Mar 4 with 1888 views | HighgateBlue |
| Phil, can we have some clarity on the sums ME has put in? on 10:56 - Mar 4 by FrankfurtBlue |
Stated debt and cash injected are not the same. Debt can be accrued in many ways. ME purchased £32m of it from Aviva for reportedly £6m, but ITFC saw none of that money from Evans. Only if/when ME writes off that debt, do ITFC benefit, otherwise £32m is still on the books and would have to be fully repaid to ME out of revenues after a prolonged stay in the EPL. ME capitalised the costs of issuing the original loan notes and capitalised interest on them for the first 4-5 years. Millions added to the debt for which ITFC saw no benefit.
Nobody is saying he didn't put significant sums of cash into ITFC, especially in the early years when he was putting in excess of £6m p.a. However, in the last 5 reported financial years, the cashflow statements show that ME has loaned ITFC £232k 2014/15, £250k 2015/16, £2.9m 2016/17, £6.1m 2017/18, and £585k 2018/19. That is £10m over 5 years, which makes an average cash injection of £2m p.a. in the last 5 years.
But I was attempting not to get hooked up on the finances. It is what he has done with the money that is far more important. Everyone can have their opinion on decisions he has made, right or wrong at ITFC, but one thing is fact. He has brought us to the worst place we have been since 1952/53. I would argue that it is somewhat foolish to ignore that little fact! |
Sure, debt can be accrued in many ways. Similarly, an owner can improve the asset position of his company in many ways, rather than merely by injecting cash. It may be right that ME put only £585k in the particular year that you choose, but I would say that we cannot know that for sure - only that the net financing position in that year in cash terms was £585k.
I agree that the money has been used poorly and I agree that ITFC being brought to our lowest point since the 1950s must not be ignored.
But in assessing Evans' contribution, it is essential to determine how much money he has put into the club, and I don't think its robust just to look at the cashflow position. Equally, it's not especially fair only to look at five years in the past, which aren't even the last five financial years (albeit they are the last ones for which we have published accounts). | | | |
| This may not be very popular on 14:24 - Mar 4 with 1866 views | braveblue |
It was a long statement that said little. At the end of the day he has been in control during the worst period in our history and has taken us steadily down almost every year. He is a disaster. I pray he goes quickly but I doubt it. | | | |
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