| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard 00:35 - Mar 10 with 12403 views | hatch |
Been following this closely since she went missing near Clapham last Wednesday. They’ve just announced they’ve arrested a Met police officer.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56342465
And bizarrely at the same time I was messaging my friend to say ‘what sort of person would gain trust with a woman? A police officer possibly?’ and literally 10 seconds later we saw the news break on Twitter.
Such a worrying case and the outcome doesn’t look promising but at least an arrest has been made. |  | | |  |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 15:56 - Mar 11 with 2766 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 15:50 - Mar 11 by bluelagos |
I am guessing (I don't know) that one of the issues for many women is quite simply that they are more vulnerable than many men. I have walked in dodgy areas and held my keys ready, watched dubious characters who looked ready to relieve me of my wallet etc. But that fear can't compare to the fear of being raped/sexually assualted which many women will have.
So I do think that irrespective of the stats, we have to understand that women are more likely to feel anxiety/fear when walking alone. How we help them with that (crossing the road if following etc.) is one part of it, but I am uncomfortable with anyone suggesting women should do xyz or avoid xyz.
Whatever they chose to do I am cool with, whether that is avoid situations and or chosing to say "Fck that, I am walking where I want when I want". It is a woman's choice and we should all respect it without ever questioning that choice imho.
By all means point out the statistical unlikelihood of being attacked by a random stranger, but it could still happen and some people will naturally be sh1t scared of that, especially if they have heard of or experienced incidents previously.
Rambling a bit - but thought I'd throw in my thoughts. |
That’s a good summary Lagos.
You are right to highlight the fear element here, rather than just the reality of the numbers. |  | | |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:00 - Mar 11 with 2750 views | blueasfook |
Feminists are loving it. Let's not educate women to keep safe, let's educate pyschopaths not to attack women.
Yeah that'll work. |  |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:02 - Mar 11 with 2735 views | bluelagos |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 15:56 - Mar 11 by Crawfordsboot |
That’s a good summary Lagos.
You are right to highlight the fear element here, rather than just the reality of the numbers. |
Not everyone is a numbers nerd ;-) |  |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:03 - Mar 11 with 2729 views | blueasfook |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 01:07 - Mar 10 by factual_blue |
I grew up on a road just off Poynders Road, literally yards from the area shown as the cordoned off section on the BBC website. |
Was it you? You seem to know the area very well.
I'm dobbing you in. | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:06 - Mar 11 with 2731 views | J2BLUE |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:00 - Mar 11 by blueasfook |
Feminists are loving it. Let's not educate women to keep safe, let's educate pyschopaths not to attack women.
Yeah that'll work. |
This is what I don't get. The campaign to be safe to walk after dark at any time is unachievable just because there will always be an element of terrible people.
I'm not suggesting we just don't bother or that we don't try and act better but the aim is literally unachievable. |  |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:12 - Mar 11 with 2701 views | blueasfook |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:06 - Mar 11 by J2BLUE |
This is what I don't get. The campaign to be safe to walk after dark at any time is unachievable just because there will always be an element of terrible people.
I'm not suggesting we just don't bother or that we don't try and act better but the aim is literally unachievable. |
Exactly. It would be nice to live in a world where you can go out and leave your door unlocked, or leave your bike out at night without it going missing. I'd love to walk through downtown Baghdad without fear or travel through South America without the worry of being robbed by bandits.
There has never been a world free of risk and there never will be. The onus is on oneself to be aware and take precautions. | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:17 - Mar 11 with 2692 views | hatch |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:06 - Mar 11 by J2BLUE |
This is what I don't get. The campaign to be safe to walk after dark at any time is unachievable just because there will always be an element of terrible people.
I'm not suggesting we just don't bother or that we don't try and act better but the aim is literally unachievable. |
I think the case with Sarah Everard should be separated from the wider sexual harrassment arguments going around at the moment as they're two different things.
One is a 'psychopath' as another member has said and is the complete extreme.
The other is just the general feeling of worry and discomfort that certain men can given women.
I feel like the campaign that is gathering pace this week about women walking alone without fear is a phoenix conversation that has branched out from the Sarah Everard case. As that case was not sexual harrassment, it was far worse and thankfully far more unique.
So in response to your post J2BLUE, I don't think the campaign is stop attacks, it's to allow women to walk with more confidence at night and not fear a creepy look, a brief stalker, a lewd comment etc. It's a campaign for men to help women feel safe through the tips I've previously shared and giving a wide berth etc. | | | |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:18 - Mar 11 with 2681 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:02 - Mar 11 by bluelagos |
Not everyone is a numbers nerd ;-) |
I still have Joe's wedding speech in my memory bank when he got the bride and groom to stare into each others eyes before announcing ... now statistically speaking ........... | | | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:20 - Mar 11 with 2680 views | J2BLUE |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:17 - Mar 11 by hatch |
I think the case with Sarah Everard should be separated from the wider sexual harrassment arguments going around at the moment as they're two different things.
One is a 'psychopath' as another member has said and is the complete extreme.
The other is just the general feeling of worry and discomfort that certain men can given women.
I feel like the campaign that is gathering pace this week about women walking alone without fear is a phoenix conversation that has branched out from the Sarah Everard case. As that case was not sexual harrassment, it was far worse and thankfully far more unique.
So in response to your post J2BLUE, I don't think the campaign is stop attacks, it's to allow women to walk with more confidence at night and not fear a creepy look, a brief stalker, a lewd comment etc. It's a campaign for men to help women feel safe through the tips I've previously shared and giving a wide berth etc. |
All fair points but I thought the mission statement was something like we won't stop until all women can walk the streets after dark without fear?
Which is something we should all try and help achieve but 100% achievement is not possible. | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:22 - Mar 11 with 2674 views | blueasfook |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:20 - Mar 11 by J2BLUE |
All fair points but I thought the mission statement was something like we won't stop until all women can walk the streets after dark without fear?
Which is something we should all try and help achieve but 100% achievement is not possible. |
I am sure there are plenty of men walking the streets in fear too. Far more men are killed on the streets of London in gang related violence every year.
In fact young men (aged 20-35) are the group most likely to be violently injured/killed.
ALL should be free to walk the streets at night. | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:33 - Mar 11 with 2641 views | SpruceMoose |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:22 - Mar 11 by blueasfook |
I am sure there are plenty of men walking the streets in fear too. Far more men are killed on the streets of London in gang related violence every year.
In fact young men (aged 20-35) are the group most likely to be violently injured/killed.
ALL should be free to walk the streets at night. |
Are you really the poster some folk on here spent years raving about? |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:40 - Mar 11 with 2623 views | blueasfook |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:33 - Mar 11 by SpruceMoose |
Are you really the poster some folk on here spent years raving about? |
Yes, I never asked for that title. | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:41 - Mar 11 with 2619 views | Charlie_pl_baxter |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:17 - Mar 11 by hatch |
I think the case with Sarah Everard should be separated from the wider sexual harrassment arguments going around at the moment as they're two different things.
One is a 'psychopath' as another member has said and is the complete extreme.
The other is just the general feeling of worry and discomfort that certain men can given women.
I feel like the campaign that is gathering pace this week about women walking alone without fear is a phoenix conversation that has branched out from the Sarah Everard case. As that case was not sexual harrassment, it was far worse and thankfully far more unique.
So in response to your post J2BLUE, I don't think the campaign is stop attacks, it's to allow women to walk with more confidence at night and not fear a creepy look, a brief stalker, a lewd comment etc. It's a campaign for men to help women feel safe through the tips I've previously shared and giving a wide berth etc. |
I disagree with this. Obviously rape and murder is an extreme but it's too easy to just label the perpetrator a "Psycho" to distance yourself from them. My view is that this just sits at the extreme end of a continuum of violence against women (repeating myself from another thread here, apologies if you've read it there also). I'd argue that many of us will know people who are either on that continuum or too close to the beginning for comfort. That's not to say that creepy guys all go on to become murderers and rapists, just to say we are talking about degrees of the same issue rather than two different problems. |  |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:43 - Mar 11 with 2607 views | Charlie_pl_baxter |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:17 - Mar 11 by hatch |
I think the case with Sarah Everard should be separated from the wider sexual harrassment arguments going around at the moment as they're two different things.
One is a 'psychopath' as another member has said and is the complete extreme.
The other is just the general feeling of worry and discomfort that certain men can given women.
I feel like the campaign that is gathering pace this week about women walking alone without fear is a phoenix conversation that has branched out from the Sarah Everard case. As that case was not sexual harrassment, it was far worse and thankfully far more unique.
So in response to your post J2BLUE, I don't think the campaign is stop attacks, it's to allow women to walk with more confidence at night and not fear a creepy look, a brief stalker, a lewd comment etc. It's a campaign for men to help women feel safe through the tips I've previously shared and giving a wide berth etc. |
PS I have to say that in the main (hatch's post included) I think this is a pretty healthy discussion of these issues. Perhaps the most important thing is for people to bring these issues out into the open and talk about them. | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:45 - Mar 11 with 2602 views | J2BLUE |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:33 - Mar 11 by SpruceMoose |
Are you really the poster some folk on here spent years raving about? |
He's partly responsible for making me the man I am today
...oh, yea, I see your point... | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:49 - Mar 11 with 2590 views | Charlie_pl_baxter |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:22 - Mar 11 by blueasfook |
I am sure there are plenty of men walking the streets in fear too. Far more men are killed on the streets of London in gang related violence every year.
In fact young men (aged 20-35) are the group most likely to be violently injured/killed.
ALL should be free to walk the streets at night. |
Surely it's relevant who is doing this killing though, again primarily men? The point about women taking steps to protect themselves is that they are already doing it, just go on twitter for five minutes and it's flooded with comments about carrying keys in their hands, not going out at night etc.
The point is that we also need to find ways to tackle the root cause which is male propensity to violence. | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:52 - Mar 11 with 2570 views | bluelagos |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:43 - Mar 11 by Charlie_pl_baxter |
PS I have to say that in the main (hatch's post included) I think this is a pretty healthy discussion of these issues. Perhaps the most important thing is for people to bring these issues out into the open and talk about them. |
Agree with you 100%. One or two posts aside, the discussion has been informed, challenging and not descended as some threads too. | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 17:08 - Mar 11 with 2526 views | hatch |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:41 - Mar 11 by Charlie_pl_baxter |
I disagree with this. Obviously rape and murder is an extreme but it's too easy to just label the perpetrator a "Psycho" to distance yourself from them. My view is that this just sits at the extreme end of a continuum of violence against women (repeating myself from another thread here, apologies if you've read it there also). I'd argue that many of us will know people who are either on that continuum or too close to the beginning for comfort. That's not to say that creepy guys all go on to become murderers and rapists, just to say we are talking about degrees of the same issue rather than two different problems. |
I agree with what you're saying and understand that but sadly I think many men will think they're not creepy and won't adjust their behaviour from a few social media posts. This feels like the start of Black Lives Matter and we're already getting 'All Lives Matter' responses suggesting that everyone should be made to feel safe.
I think the campaign is a good thing but I also think we need to be careful not to link it to the Sarah Everard case too much as men will distance distance themselves - 'well I'm not like that'.
Therefore for greatest impact I think it's best run as a campaign without the extremes referenced too greatly as it's more likely to engage the necessary audience. I don't mind admitting that I've never proactively thought about my approach when walking at night. I've walked across Clapham Common at night past plenty of individual females and not once changed my behaviour. I've found this week a little eye opening in that regard and it's great that there are things that ALL men can actively to do make women feel more comfortable. All men should relate to those tips rather than the more dismissive of men seeing the social media posts and saying 'well I'm not like that so this is b*ll*cks'.
I do understand your point and agree this is a good debate, I suppose my point is ultimately separating the extremes and focusing on the everyday issues which we can all relate to will have greater impact. | | | |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 17:11 - Mar 11 with 2523 views | blueasfook |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:49 - Mar 11 by Charlie_pl_baxter |
Surely it's relevant who is doing this killing though, again primarily men? The point about women taking steps to protect themselves is that they are already doing it, just go on twitter for five minutes and it's flooded with comments about carrying keys in their hands, not going out at night etc.
The point is that we also need to find ways to tackle the root cause which is male propensity to violence. |
Agree. Re: Violence is mainly perpetrated by men.
I am not sure we could ever 100% stamp out violence from society sadly | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 17:13 - Mar 11 with 2517 views | hatch |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 17:08 - Mar 11 by hatch |
I agree with what you're saying and understand that but sadly I think many men will think they're not creepy and won't adjust their behaviour from a few social media posts. This feels like the start of Black Lives Matter and we're already getting 'All Lives Matter' responses suggesting that everyone should be made to feel safe.
I think the campaign is a good thing but I also think we need to be careful not to link it to the Sarah Everard case too much as men will distance distance themselves - 'well I'm not like that'.
Therefore for greatest impact I think it's best run as a campaign without the extremes referenced too greatly as it's more likely to engage the necessary audience. I don't mind admitting that I've never proactively thought about my approach when walking at night. I've walked across Clapham Common at night past plenty of individual females and not once changed my behaviour. I've found this week a little eye opening in that regard and it's great that there are things that ALL men can actively to do make women feel more comfortable. All men should relate to those tips rather than the more dismissive of men seeing the social media posts and saying 'well I'm not like that so this is b*ll*cks'.
I do understand your point and agree this is a good debate, I suppose my point is ultimately separating the extremes and focusing on the everyday issues which we can all relate to will have greater impact. |
I've re-read and noticed I've not really referenced sexual harrassment specifically which we're looking at in the context of women alone at night but arguably happens during the day too and in other contexts. I think this campaign helps highlight that too and it's slightly different to #MeToo as it's not about the rich and powerful but everyday men.
I think I'll be even more mindful to challenge that behaviour if I witness it. | | | |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 17:37 - Mar 11 with 2468 views | Charlie_pl_baxter |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 17:11 - Mar 11 by blueasfook |
Agree. Re: Violence is mainly perpetrated by men.
I am not sure we could ever 100% stamp out violence from society sadly |
I agree we will never entirely stamp out violence. However it is possible to shift culture over time. Even if we could move the needle on this as a society by say 5% that would be worth the effort. | |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 06:01 - Mar 12 with 2314 views | Ryorry |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 17:11 - Mar 11 by blueasfook |
Agree. Re: Violence is mainly perpetrated by men.
I am not sure we could ever 100% stamp out violence from society sadly |
I think you're missing the point that if more decent men took active steps to reduce womens' fears by, eg, reducing the distance they follow behind them going down lonely streets at night, crossing the road to pass & so on, women would feel a lot more comfortable & maybe more able to go out at night - improving peoples' comfort & freedom like that is achievable to some degree & obviously worthwhile in itself. Such consideration could of course also be applied to following behind men, by either gender.
It might also mean that a reduction in the number of seemingly creepy but actually innocent incidences would lead to women/men being more aware of it when a *real* threat arises, simply because there'd be fewer alarm bells constantly going off in their heads when there's no need. |  |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 07:55 - Mar 12 with 2266 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:22 - Mar 11 by blueasfook |
I am sure there are plenty of men walking the streets in fear too. Far more men are killed on the streets of London in gang related violence every year.
In fact young men (aged 20-35) are the group most likely to be violently injured/killed.
ALL should be free to walk the streets at night. |
Not relevant. This is about the fear women have from men. Men killing other men is a different (but equally horrible) issue. Don't go all 'All Lives Matter' on us Blueas. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 07:57 - Mar 12 with 2264 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 14:42 - Mar 11 by Crawfordsboot |
I am not offended at all and do not mean to draw any comparison with the All lives matter campaigns.
My interest is to
A. Keep things in perspective. This individual case will cause much fear. Since posting I have found info that only approx six percent of homicides of women are carried out by someone unknown to them. The vast majority are by spouses/partners.
B. The reporting tends to demonise men, though men are four times more likely to be victims themselves.
C. Of course I accept that murder is the extreme and that there will be many shades of lesser violence. Though I have no proof I suspect that men suffer more general violence than do women. This individual case is a murder and therefore I used the data on murders for reference. |
You and others in this thread (i.e. Blueas) ought to read this. Sums the situation up very well and has certainly made me think;
https://spilleroftea.com/2021/03/11/not-all-men-dismantling-the-pyramid/ | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 08:21 - Mar 12 with 2246 views | vapour_trail |
| Met police officer arrested in connection with missing Sarah Everard on 16:22 - Mar 11 by blueasfook |
I am sure there are plenty of men walking the streets in fear too. Far more men are killed on the streets of London in gang related violence every year.
In fact young men (aged 20-35) are the group most likely to be violently injured/killed.
ALL should be free to walk the streets at night. |
FFS. |  |
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