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Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 20:04 - Mar 13 by gtsb1966
If they were abiding by the current covid rules then there would be no need to drag them away. You cannot have one law for one and another for the rest irrespective of the cause.
"If they were abiding by the current covid rules"
And vigils went ahead perfectly peacefully in Nottingham, Birmingham & Manchester -
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 22:02 - Mar 13 by Mercian
Police engaging them as they did would have increased the rate of infection, not decreased it. This is not about covid, this is about projection of power. I would not be at all suprised that after the pandemic is over that some of the measures used to curtail crowds were not lifted. The government are using it as an excuse to enact a second criminal justice act which also banned large gatherings in the early 90s. Then the excuse was illegal raves, now it is covid 19. I felt the the long arm of the justice system this week, I was in the wrong, doing 62 in a 50 zone, it should have 6 points maximum + the 3 I already have would have made it 9. I went to court in person, was refused legal advice and was hung out to dry. They asked for mitigating circumstances. I told them that I was a recovering cancer patient who had to go to Derby Hospital every other week for check ups. I live in rural Derbyshire 25 miles from Derby and two miles from the nearest shop. There is no public transport running here at the moment and I have been laid of due to covid so cannot afford a taxi. I asked the magistrate if keeping me off the road is more important than my health and she said it was not not her problem and upped my fine fromr £80 to £120 for daring to question her verdict and was told Iwas on the verge of being in contempt and banned me for 6 months. I am now genuinely worried for my health as I simply cannot afford to make the appointments.That is Tory justice for you.
[Post edited 13 Mar 2021 22:18]
Quite. It's jaw-droppingly that the Met say they wanted to stop the vigil on the grounds of Covid, but then wade in to break social distancing by literally climbing over the women, grabbing them, handcuffing them, and dragging them away in close proximity. Apart from the excessive force, & assault in the sense of the Met breaking Covid guidelines, it's also spectacularly stupid - no thought given to the evident hypocrisy & own goal scored when phone footage is shown on the media.
So sorry about your own situation. There are community organisations with volunteer drivers functioning in most areas to take people to medical appointments, deliver medication etc., so I think it'd be worth you phoning around if the worst does come to the worst & you get a ban from driving.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 22:27 - Mar 13 by bluelagos
That's fair,
Do you not now think the poiice should have engaged with the vigil organisers to facilitate a safe, peaceful event?
Or do you think tonights outcome is better?
I stand by my original position. That a large gathering, which although mask were worn (although not by all) was by no means socially distanced, during a national lockdown should not take place. No matter how much any if us sympathise with their cause.
That in no way excuses the behaviour by the police. Once the vigil had started they should have let it run its course peacefully.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 07:48 - Mar 14 by GlasgowBlue
I stand by my original position. That a large gathering, which although mask were worn (although not by all) was by no means socially distanced, during a national lockdown should not take place. No matter how much any if us sympathise with their cause.
That in no way excuses the behaviour by the police. Once the vigil had started they should have let it run its course peacefully.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 07:57 - Mar 14 by bluelagos
Cheers for the response.
Cressida Dick shoukd be on our screens this morning giving an explanation for the Met’s handling of yesterday’s event. She’s accountable and shouldn’t be hiding away.
How on earth did the Met think their heavy handedness would help to avoid the spread of Covid? Surely the police increased the chances of the virus being spread with their violent close contact with protesters.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 08:03 - Mar 14 by GlasgowBlue
Cressida Dick shoukd be on our screens this morning giving an explanation for the Met’s handling of yesterday’s event. She’s accountable and shouldn’t be hiding away.
Given how brave she was in fronting up the news that one of her own officers had been arrested (and now charged) for murder, was surprised to see her put someone else up to defend the Met's response last night.
I think the bigger question (and Jeera nailed for it me) is why did the police think that response was appropriate. There is a strong wiff of political interference which lands at Priti Patel. She has criticised the police's response to the BLM protests and I think ultimate responsibility lies with her.
Whether the storm goes that far, we will have to wait and see.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 08:12 - Mar 14 by Steve_M
A thoughtful response from the Met here:
FFS.
For me, the police don't have the institutional ability to recognise they messed up. To accept they messed up and to apologise for messing up. That shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. Has always been thus.
And of course the ordinary copper is the one who has to face the public. His job just got harder today, harder due to the Met's actions and their refusal to accept they got it wrong.
You can only police with public consent. There will be less good will today towards the police than there was yesterday. And that sits with them and no one else.
And without those mobile phones, no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of people would believe their version of events as opposed to what we can see with our own eyes.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 08:10 - Mar 14 by bluelagos
Given how brave she was in fronting up the news that one of her own officers had been arrested (and now charged) for murder, was surprised to see her put someone else up to defend the Met's response last night.
I think the bigger question (and Jeera nailed for it me) is why did the police think that response was appropriate. There is a strong wiff of political interference which lands at Priti Patel. She has criticised the police's response to the BLM protests and I think ultimate responsibility lies with her.
Whether the storm goes that far, we will have to wait and see.
I think one thing that I did overlook last night is that the government removed an exemption to covid regulations for the right to protest in November. That was clearly wrong IMO but even allowing for that the response last night may well have been influenced, directly or indirectly, by political expectation.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 08:12 - Mar 14 by Steve_M
A thoughtful response from the Met here:
FFS.
I am planning on cycling along a particularly dangerous bit of road later. Hopefully the local bobby will be hiding in a bush ready to pull me from my bike to save me from myself!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 08:27 - Mar 14 by Steve_M
I think one thing that I did overlook last night is that the government removed an exemption to covid regulations for the right to protest in November. That was clearly wrong IMO but even allowing for that the response last night may well have been influenced, directly or indirectly, by political expectation.
For me the blame lies at Priti's feet.
In Bristol, the police faced with an angry mob, determined to take down a statue, wisely opted to stand back and gather evidence. The alternative would have been a violent confrontation and given the mood at the time, no doubt with serious disturbances and risk of injury on both sides.
And I applauded that restraint at the time, I thought it was a sensible, pragmatic approach that did not inflame a potentially explosive situation.
But the Tory right, Priti and her cheerleaders crticised the police for that response at the time, in public too.
She was unhappy with their approach and clearly wanted/wants a firmer hand from the police. She goes on countless CV press conferences banging on about police enforcement.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 08:35 - Mar 14 by bluelagos
For me the blame lies at Priti's feet.
In Bristol, the police faced with an angry mob, determined to take down a statue, wisely opted to stand back and gather evidence. The alternative would have been a violent confrontation and given the mood at the time, no doubt with serious disturbances and risk of injury on both sides.
And I applauded that restraint at the time, I thought it was a sensible, pragmatic approach that did not inflame a potentially explosive situation.
But the Tory right, Priti and her cheerleaders crticised the police for that response at the time, in public too.
She was unhappy with their approach and clearly wanted/wants a firmer hand from the police. She goes on countless CV press conferences banging on about police enforcement.
And now we get what we had last night.
Priti is doing a very good job of her impression of a literal Nazi these days, I’d say she’s really upped the game since lobbing asylum seekers in camps.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 08:25 - Mar 14 by bluelagos
For me, the police don't have the institutional ability to recognise they messed up. To accept they messed up and to apologise for messing up. That shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. Has always been thus.
And of course the ordinary copper is the one who has to face the public. His job just got harder today, harder due to the Met's actions and their refusal to accept they got it wrong.
You can only police with public consent. There will be less good will today towards the police than there was yesterday. And that sits with them and no one else.
And without those mobile phones, no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of people would believe their version of events as opposed to what we can see with our own eyes.
As someone very familiar with Hillsborough I can’t imagine you expected them to own their behaviour though!?
They protect their own, and that’s why ACAB. Good cops don’t stay cops for long.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 08:35 - Mar 14 by bluelagos
For me the blame lies at Priti's feet.
In Bristol, the police faced with an angry mob, determined to take down a statue, wisely opted to stand back and gather evidence. The alternative would have been a violent confrontation and given the mood at the time, no doubt with serious disturbances and risk of injury on both sides.
And I applauded that restraint at the time, I thought it was a sensible, pragmatic approach that did not inflame a potentially explosive situation.
But the Tory right, Priti and her cheerleaders crticised the police for that response at the time, in public too.
She was unhappy with their approach and clearly wanted/wants a firmer hand from the police. She goes on countless CV press conferences banging on about police enforcement.
And now we get what we had last night.
For the Culture War to seem real and be effective politically, we need to see some skirmishes.
Hence Patel’s comments and the new policing act that will engineer confrontation.
Of course, they may also believe in this heavy-handed, authoritarian approach but they know it’s its political benefit too.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 09:02 - Mar 14 with 871 views
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 08:35 - Mar 14 by bluelagos
For me the blame lies at Priti's feet.
In Bristol, the police faced with an angry mob, determined to take down a statue, wisely opted to stand back and gather evidence. The alternative would have been a violent confrontation and given the mood at the time, no doubt with serious disturbances and risk of injury on both sides.
And I applauded that restraint at the time, I thought it was a sensible, pragmatic approach that did not inflame a potentially explosive situation.
But the Tory right, Priti and her cheerleaders crticised the police for that response at the time, in public too.
She was unhappy with their approach and clearly wanted/wants a firmer hand from the police. She goes on countless CV press conferences banging on about police enforcement.
And now we get what we had last night.
We have a situation where in Bristol the police held back and got heavily criticised. Last night they acted and get heavily criticised by Priti. They were placed in a very difficult position. The organisers of last nights planned event had called it off but those present in large numbers at last nights vigil went ahead with the protest anyway. Those policing the event have mothers, sisters, wives and daughters. They will in all likelihood have had considerable empathy with the cause. Given the laws as they stand and the complications of COVID restrictions they were damned if they did and damned if they didn’t. I agree with you that responsibility for this situation lies firmly at the very top - Priti and her boss. True to form Patel responds by trying to throw the Police Commissioner under the bus. This in turn is hugely damaging and undermines public trust in the police as witnessed by some of the more rabid comments on here.
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Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 09:05 - Mar 14 with 860 views
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 07:48 - Mar 14 by GlasgowBlue
I stand by my original position. That a large gathering, which although mask were worn (although not by all) was by no means socially distanced, during a national lockdown should not take place. No matter how much any if us sympathise with their cause.
That in no way excuses the behaviour by the police. Once the vigil had started they should have let it run its course peacefully.
[Post edited 14 Mar 2021 7:53]
If only the Met had seen the way the Glasgow police handled thousands of Rangers fans the other day.
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Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 09:10 - Mar 14 with 846 views
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 07:48 - Mar 14 by GlasgowBlue
I stand by my original position. That a large gathering, which although mask were worn (although not by all) was by no means socially distanced, during a national lockdown should not take place. No matter how much any if us sympathise with their cause.
That in no way excuses the behaviour by the police. Once the vigil had started they should have let it run its course peacefully.
[Post edited 14 Mar 2021 7:53]
I think the police suspected all along that this wouldn't remain a respectful, socially distanced vigil which was why they wanted it stopped. From what I've seen they we're correct to think that, as ultimately thousands crammed together chanting and cheering which was more political rally than respectful vigil. We shouldn't ignore or condone the pictures of snarling men attacking the police lines either. So if the police suspected this was likely to happen, was their only plan to cross their fingers and hope it didn't but if it did they would wade in? Questions definitely need answering about what the operational and contingency plans were...
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Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 09:14 - Mar 14 with 845 views
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 08:44 - Mar 14 by monytowbray
As someone very familiar with Hillsborough I can’t imagine you expected them to own their behaviour though!?
They protect their own, and that’s why ACAB. Good cops don’t stay cops for long.
Not sure how I can fully answer that without upsetting many on the board so I'll keep my observations for a post CV beer.
Every job has good and bad, the police are no different. The only bone of contention is how many are of each. I suspect my opinion will differ from those of many.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 22:58 - Mar 13 by King_of_Portman_Rd
May I ask, Were you there and witnessed what happened? I wasn’t.
I’m only providing a rare viewpoint that is not anti police or blindly painting police as the enemy, which seems to have been a national media hobby for decades. Some of which is completely just, but not all.
I understand (or atleast it appears) that you (like many) have an entrenched distrust or dislike for the police.
What has happened tonight has been incredibly poor and avoidable, but we don’t know the complete story of what those in handcuffs have done and I shall wait until we do, before I boo, hiss and vilify anyone wearing a police uniform
We are not "blindly painting the police as the enemy". We are talking specifically about this heavy-handed response from Police Officers, ordered by senior officers, after the institution of the Met refused to engage with those who wished to hold a Covid-safe demo, and instead sought to legally gag this protest in the courts, but failed.
And, in case we need to underline this point, we are talking about women claiming the right not to be subject to random acts of violence, who were then made subject to random acts of violence from police officers.
Edit: Heavily Edited because I was a dick.
[Post edited 14 Mar 2021 13:30]
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Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 09:30 - Mar 14 with 829 views
Check out Jess Phillips on Marr this morning. She cuts through all the c**p and makes the position very clear. A dose of common sense from someone who has worked at the sharp end of domestic abuse and crimes against women.
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Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 09:31 - Mar 14 with 826 views
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 09:02 - Mar 14 by Crawfordsboot
We have a situation where in Bristol the police held back and got heavily criticised. Last night they acted and get heavily criticised by Priti. They were placed in a very difficult position. The organisers of last nights planned event had called it off but those present in large numbers at last nights vigil went ahead with the protest anyway. Those policing the event have mothers, sisters, wives and daughters. They will in all likelihood have had considerable empathy with the cause. Given the laws as they stand and the complications of COVID restrictions they were damned if they did and damned if they didn’t. I agree with you that responsibility for this situation lies firmly at the very top - Priti and her boss. True to form Patel responds by trying to throw the Police Commissioner under the bus. This in turn is hugely damaging and undermines public trust in the police as witnessed by some of the more rabid comments on here.
it is difficult not to be angry when the whole situation could have been avoided and, in all likelihood, a vigil (rather than "protest") held largely maintaining Covid rules. "Damned if they do, damned if they don't" is all very well but a third way was offered to the Met and, as far as we are being told, they refused to engage.
It is also difficult to not go full conspiracy theory on this one and not see that decision and the entirely predictable results as a "message" to women. It really does say "know your place" to me. Four arrests due to "the over-riding need to protect public safety"? My ar$e. It is not surprising that some of the comments have been "rabid".
So even if, from Cressida Dick all the way down to the arresting officers, this was a case of "will no one rid me of this turbulent priest" it is beholden on us all to trace this latest example of intimidation (I wish I could say aberration but I can't) back to the source. Patel needs to go.
But it cannot end there. The Met needs to reform, perhaps policing in general needs to reform. As BL has already said, the ordinary copper's job, in every part of the country, just got more difficult.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 09:14 - Mar 14 by bluelagos
Not sure how I can fully answer that without upsetting many on the board so I'll keep my observations for a post CV beer.
Every job has good and bad, the police are no different. The only bone of contention is how many are of each. I suspect my opinion will differ from those of many.
Maybe David Allen Green’a very good blog can stand in here:
Two key points, neither new but both important all the same:
1) Covid regulations have been policed as a public order, rather than a public health, issue; 2) The police response to mistakes is all too often to double down on them.
Let's see the Met fine them then.... on 09:24 - Mar 14 by ArnoldMoorhen
We are not "blindly painting the police as the enemy". We are talking specifically about this heavy-handed response from Police Officers, ordered by senior officers, after the institution of the Met refused to engage with those who wished to hold a Covid-safe demo, and instead sought to legally gag this protest in the courts, but failed.
And, in case we need to underline this point, we are talking about women claiming the right not to be subject to random acts of violence, who were then made subject to random acts of violence from police officers.
Edit: Heavily Edited because I was a dick.
[Post edited 14 Mar 2021 13:30]
I think you are hearing what you want to. I never condoned anything that happened, just adding to a discussion in a polite and considered manner. And as has been pointed there were plenty of people in a small area and not all were respectfully and peacefully attending the vigil. Some of that reaction will obviously be in direct consequence of police action, but some will have been simply due to police being stood in front of them..
I accept that people hate police, I am aware of why that is, I can only control what I do, not the actions of others so I’m a little disappointed you are throwing this toward me when I have not done anything to warrant it.
Also your ridiculous comment about names.. mine was created years ago due to singing songs about (90s)David Johnson at PR. I’m not going to be churlish enough to question if you considered other fowl birds when choosing your name. Also for the record I do not work for Suffolk Police
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