| Macron's starting to lose it now 12:44 - Mar 16 with 11794 views | hype313 |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 15:56 - Mar 16 with 2421 views | MattinLondon |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 15:42 - Mar 16 by longtimefan |
I bet he was shattered when they did. |
Do you think his opponents smeared him a lot? |  | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:04 - Mar 16 with 2403 views | Moriarty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 15:31 - Mar 16 by longtimefan |
Hang on a minute. Haven’t you suspended it’s use? |
We have.
But AZ’s supply failures have been there since the beginning and well before the temporary suspension. Its BS of the highest order to present that temporary and precautionary measure as an excuse for AZ’s failures. Ireland has acted in like manner with other countries, and it’s widely expected that vaccinations with AZ will resume this week, after EMA approval. The supply failures however will continue.
Safety processes and supply failures should not be muddled. |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:16 - Mar 16 with 2380 views | jimmyvet |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:04 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
We have.
But AZ’s supply failures have been there since the beginning and well before the temporary suspension. Its BS of the highest order to present that temporary and precautionary measure as an excuse for AZ’s failures. Ireland has acted in like manner with other countries, and it’s widely expected that vaccinations with AZ will resume this week, after EMA approval. The supply failures however will continue.
Safety processes and supply failures should not be muddled. |
Have you not had EMA approval right through for the vaccine ? When have they advised not to use it. And you haven’t had any supply issues with Pfizer,Really I am pretty sure they have had many supply issues in the first quarter didn’t they deliver 30% less than promised in Feb ... it does seem your response is very much like that of the EUs. |  | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:21 - Mar 16 with 2367 views | Moriarty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 15:38 - Mar 16 by StokieBlue |
The supply issues are certainly a concern and it's fully understandable that countries such as Ireland feel frustrated if they aren't receiving what was agreed, especially when it's something so vital as a vaccine. In this case though Macron has made numerous negative comments about the AZ vaccine and France has suspended it's use so it seems odd for him to complain about supply when it can't be used anyway.
Ireland has however has also suspended usage of the vaccine even though the EMA has said that shouldn't be the case and numerous EU vaccine scientists have also said that countries shouldn't be stopping the vaccine rollout. The EMA has actually made an announcement in the last hour to that regard:
"There is "no indication" the AstraZeneca vaccine has caused blood clot incidents, the director of the European Medical Agency (EMA) has said.
The benefits of the AstraZeneca vaccine in preventing death and hospitalisation outweigh the risks of side effects, Emer Cooke said.
She told a virtual press conference: "I want to also stress at present there is no indication that vaccination has caused these conditions."
"The number of thromboembolic events overall in vaccinated people seems not to be higher than that seen in the general population," she added.
An estimated 17m AstraZeneca vaccines have been administered across Europe.
Ms Cooke also said there were similar reports about blood clots related to other coronavirus vaccines approved for use in Europe, including Pfizer and Moderna."
So there are two different issues there.
There is a third issue which is Macron in particular and some other countries as entities have persistently sowed doubt around the AZ vaccine for months now and no matter what the EMA or countries health ministers say now it's going to be hard to get some people to have the AZ vaccine in mainland Europe. This is a terrible situation with both France and Italy trending upwards in cases and over 25,000 a day and with Italy in a new lockdown and German doctors calling for a new lockdown.
They need the public to have confidence in the vaccine but many (not all of course) have undermined that confidence for months now.
It's an awful situation. Nobody should be gloating about it or pushing vaccine nationalism (as you rightly point out), it's more that people are going to die because of the actions of some politicans.
SB |
Ireland has no vaccines on the shelf. The targets here aren’t being met because of AZ’s failures to supply what they promised.
I’m not trying to defend Macron or France by the way, what they do is their business. I think, however, he should leave any proceedings to the EU as presumably French supplies flow from the EU procurement and the EU agreement with AZ. The merits of any such case is for those with specialist knowledge and should be kept away from politics. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:25 - Mar 16 with 2355 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 15:31 - Mar 16 by longtimefan |
Hang on a minute. Haven’t you suspended it’s use? |
I'm not sure why people are trying to conflate these two things. If they have contracts for supply that are not being met, then they've every right to challenge that. I wouldn't have thought the temporary pause while they consider the possible negative impacts (unlikely it seems for what I've heard btw) to have a bearing on a contractual dispute over supplies. |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:33 - Mar 16 with 2331 views | Moriarty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:16 - Mar 16 by jimmyvet |
Have you not had EMA approval right through for the vaccine ? When have they advised not to use it. And you haven’t had any supply issues with Pfizer,Really I am pretty sure they have had many supply issues in the first quarter didn’t they deliver 30% less than promised in Feb ... it does seem your response is very much like that of the EUs. |
Over 70s are getting Pfizer. AZ going to other categories such as front line staff.
We are a part of the EU, not the U.K.
Our vaccine supply comes from the EU procurement agreement with the various companies. We don’t have enough muscle as a small country to go alone. We get 1.1 % of what EU get. Pfizer have always been the most reliable supplier for us. As I said earlier, 110k extra from Pfizer next quarter vs failed more targets from AZ. It’s not an anti U.K. thing. Every AZ jab we’ve got has gone into arms. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:34 - Mar 16 with 2331 views | Cotty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 14:04 - Mar 16 by giant_stow |
This smells of fear. I guess their projected vacinations are looking poor, and now worse if they're gonna continue the suspension of AZ vaccinations.
Brexit comes back again: could it be that by the time this is all over, Europe will have a similar death toll to us, an even more battered economy and a debt pooling crisis in the south? All coming to a head during his re-election campaign. |
Unfortunately it's not as simple as that. Prevalence of the virus anywhere is bad for us, because of the increased opportunity for new variants. |  | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:42 - Mar 16 with 2302 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:34 - Mar 16 by Cotty |
Unfortunately it's not as simple as that. Prevalence of the virus anywhere is bad for us, because of the increased opportunity for new variants. |
And that’s why we need to get any of our spare vaccine around world as soon as our adult population are vaccinated. |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:44 - Mar 16 with 2294 views | chicoazul |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 14:21 - Mar 16 by ChiefXL |
Because Monarchs have a great track record at reining in power-crazy despotic politicians? |
I’m just saying that we should appreciate our constitutional monarchy as opposed to a republican system. |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:45 - Mar 16 with 2293 views | RadioOrwell |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 13:19 - Mar 16 by chicoazul |
Poll: abolish the monarchy?
Thread topic: President with pretty much absolute power is “losing it” |
You know they can vote for a new President don't you ?
2022 is when the next one is.
When are we voting for Monarch ? |  | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:46 - Mar 16 with 2293 views | Cotty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:42 - Mar 16 by GlasgowBlue |
And that’s why we need to get any of our spare vaccine around world as soon as our adult population are vaccinated. |
Arguably we probably should've done that from day 1, but I guess politically that would be tricky. So yes, that will have to do. | | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:53 - Mar 16 with 2262 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:46 - Mar 16 by Cotty |
Arguably we probably should've done that from day 1, but I guess politically that would be tricky. So yes, that will have to do. |
Although all of our surplus vaccine is on order. We have never had surplus sitting about doing nothing, and supply has been an issue at times. Hence the reason that we hit to a point of vaccinating 500,000 people a day and that dropped by neatly a half for a couple of weeks. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:55 - Mar 16 with 2245 views | Cotty |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:53 - Mar 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Although all of our surplus vaccine is on order. We have never had surplus sitting about doing nothing, and supply has been an issue at times. Hence the reason that we hit to a point of vaccinating 500,000 people a day and that dropped by neatly a half for a couple of weeks. |
I understand - I meant that if we were actually optimising for lowest number of deaths, we should have been exporting vaccine from the moment it was being produced. This is not a local problem, it's a global problem. | | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:56 - Mar 16 with 2240 views | chicoazul |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:53 - Mar 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Although all of our surplus vaccine is on order. We have never had surplus sitting about doing nothing, and supply has been an issue at times. Hence the reason that we hit to a point of vaccinating 500,000 people a day and that dropped by neatly a half for a couple of weeks. |
Whereas the French have millions of doses literally on ice. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:59 - Mar 16 with 2230 views | giant_stow |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:34 - Mar 16 by Cotty |
Unfortunately it's not as simple as that. Prevalence of the virus anywhere is bad for us, because of the increased opportunity for new variants. |
I'm not saying we'll be in the clear - my point is relative and a fully vacinated population will be in a btter postion to handle new variants. There's even talk of a vacinations round 3 to tackle variants for vulnerable folk starting in the autumn here. |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 17:04 - Mar 16 with 2217 views | giant_stow |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:33 - Mar 16 by Moriarty |
Over 70s are getting Pfizer. AZ going to other categories such as front line staff.
We are a part of the EU, not the U.K.
Our vaccine supply comes from the EU procurement agreement with the various companies. We don’t have enough muscle as a small country to go alone. We get 1.1 % of what EU get. Pfizer have always been the most reliable supplier for us. As I said earlier, 110k extra from Pfizer next quarter vs failed more targets from AZ. It’s not an anti U.K. thing. Every AZ jab we’ve got has gone into arms. |
I must say, the painting of AZ as unreliable as a company or for its vaccine is poor. If they made promises with no provisos, then sue them and win, but if they've got production problems that they warned against, I don't understand the anger, recriminations or attacks.
To me, I think there's a possble PR game going on. The cost price, cheap, accessible, vaccine is being attacked while the vastly more expensive corporate money maker sails on despite similar delivery and blood clot 'problems'. All starting to look a little sus. [Post edited 16 Mar 2021 17:05]
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 17:53 - Mar 16 with 2142 views | longtimefan |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 17:04 - Mar 16 by giant_stow |
I must say, the painting of AZ as unreliable as a company or for its vaccine is poor. If they made promises with no provisos, then sue them and win, but if they've got production problems that they warned against, I don't understand the anger, recriminations or attacks.
To me, I think there's a possble PR game going on. The cost price, cheap, accessible, vaccine is being attacked while the vastly more expensive corporate money maker sails on despite similar delivery and blood clot 'problems'. All starting to look a little sus. [Post edited 16 Mar 2021 17:05]
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The wording in the contract put in the public domain by the EU was “AstraZenica has committed to use its Best Reasonable Efforts to build capacity to manufacture 300 million Doses of the Vaccine, at no profit and no loss to AstraZenica”. Not really sure the EU would have a leg to stand on! | | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 17:54 - Mar 16 with 2141 views | ChiefXL |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 16:44 - Mar 16 by chicoazul |
I’m just saying that we should appreciate our constitutional monarchy as opposed to a republican system. |
Why? |  | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 17:59 - Mar 16 with 2129 views | jeera |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 17:54 - Mar 16 by ChiefXL |
Why? |
I'm struggling with this one too.
It's not as though the Queen has power is it.
Any Royal Assent is only a formality in practice and it's not as though she can/will rule against her own government.
Orf with their heads is a little dated now and doesn't hold the same sway it used to, so what's the difference? |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:01 - Mar 16 with 2115 views | Churchman |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 17:53 - Mar 16 by longtimefan |
The wording in the contract put in the public domain by the EU was “AstraZenica has committed to use its Best Reasonable Efforts to build capacity to manufacture 300 million Doses of the Vaccine, at no profit and no loss to AstraZenica”. Not really sure the EU would have a leg to stand on! |
From what I’ve read, they don’t have a leg to stand on. The only recourse they have is to withhold payments, which is what I suspect they’ll try and do. The trouble with that is the potential negative impact on who they do business with in the future. |  | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:08 - Mar 16 with 2102 views | longtimefan |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:01 - Mar 16 by Churchman |
From what I’ve read, they don’t have a leg to stand on. The only recourse they have is to withhold payments, which is what I suspect they’ll try and do. The trouble with that is the potential negative impact on who they do business with in the future. |
Maybe AstraZenica should counter sue them for isclosing the commercial information of the contract when they failed to redact the initially released document correctly! | | | |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:23 - Mar 16 with 2070 views | pointofblue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:08 - Mar 16 by longtimefan |
Maybe AstraZenica should counter sue them for isclosing the commercial information of the contract when they failed to redact the initially released document correctly! |
I remember that.
It feels awful to say but I just get a political vibe from all of this - like a baby throwing it’s dummies out of the pram because it’s not getting what it wants. I understand it’s a delicate topic but when both the WHO and EMA are saying the risk isn’t greater, for the sake of the world, vaccinations should continue. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:29 - Mar 16 with 2062 views | chicoazul |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 17:54 - Mar 16 by ChiefXL |
Why? |
Because our alternative is President Boris. The monarch holds one great position; they can’t be replaced by a politician. | |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:32 - Mar 16 with 2057 views | DanTheMan |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:29 - Mar 16 by chicoazul |
Because our alternative is President Boris. The monarch holds one great position; they can’t be replaced by a politician. |
What if you get an embarrassing one? |  |
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| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:34 - Mar 16 with 2050 views | pointofblue |
| Macron's starting to lose it now on 18:32 - Mar 16 by DanTheMan |
What if you get an embarrassing one? |
Prime Minister, President or monarch? | |
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