| Does anyone actually want to come here? 16:33 - May 25 with 5706 views | Lowie |
Serious question.
I have a very bad feeling we're going to end up replacing our mediocre players with those of a similar standard.
I hope I'm wrong. |  | | |  |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:34 - May 25 with 3465 views | itfcjoe |
I think that may be the case - ultimately whatever the vision, or the future of the club, the only way we will attract players here is to pay them more money than they can earn elsewhere.
Coming up against Championship clubs, restrained by SCMP, makes that very difficult - and think we will just have a refresh of squad rather than an upgrade on quality |  |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:34 - May 25 with 3433 views | StokieBlue |
25th May.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:35 - May 25 with 3424 views | chrismakin |
Youd think so
Promotion proven manager
Progressive new owners
Determined backroom team
Big support base
Fantastic stadium
Wage offers will be higher than others |  |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:35 - May 25 with 3425 views | Metal_Hacker |
As the Sensei once said "Patience is a Virtue" my child |  |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:36 - May 25 with 3421 views | StokieBlue |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:34 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I think that may be the case - ultimately whatever the vision, or the future of the club, the only way we will attract players here is to pay them more money than they can earn elsewhere.
Coming up against Championship clubs, restrained by SCMP, makes that very difficult - and think we will just have a refresh of squad rather than an upgrade on quality |
That's quite a big call Joe, you don't think there will be any qualitative upgrade on what we've had for the previous few years?
Isn't it pretty early to be making that call? We didn't even have the best players in this division last year and we should be able to compete with all clubs in this league.
We are probably still a draw to many in this league as well. Saw this yesterday, shows how far we have fallen but also shows that people still feel we shouldn't be here.
SB [Post edited 25 May 2021 16:39]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:38 - May 25 with 3387 views | portmanking |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:36 - May 25 by StokieBlue |
That's quite a big call Joe, you don't think there will be any qualitative upgrade on what we've had for the previous few years?
Isn't it pretty early to be making that call? We didn't even have the best players in this division last year and we should be able to compete with all clubs in this league.
We are probably still a draw to many in this league as well. Saw this yesterday, shows how far we have fallen but also shows that people still feel we shouldn't be here.
SB [Post edited 25 May 2021 16:39]
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It's a huge call, given that most business won't be announced/finalised until next month at the earliest.
You really do have quite the downer on this new ITFC regime, don't you Joe? | | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:39 - May 25 with 3372 views | chrismakin |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:36 - May 25 by StokieBlue |
That's quite a big call Joe, you don't think there will be any qualitative upgrade on what we've had for the previous few years?
Isn't it pretty early to be making that call? We didn't even have the best players in this division last year and we should be able to compete with all clubs in this league.
We are probably still a draw to many in this league as well. Saw this yesterday, shows how far we have fallen but also shows that people still feel we shouldn't be here.
SB [Post edited 25 May 2021 16:39]
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Joe I feel has a lot of personal emotion to the current squad. And since PC started upsetting and being honest with some of the squad he has quickly jumped on the 'its the end as we know it's type mentality.
I think once he sees the incoming players he may get acm to his normal positive self.
( meant with complete respect Joe btw) [Post edited 25 May 2021 16:40]
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:41 - May 25 with 3345 views | Illinoisblue |
A) it’s May and the season hasn’t ended yet
B) pretty sure Cook wouldn’t have blown up the whole squad without having replacements lined up |  |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:43 - May 25 with 3302 views | J2BLUE |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:35 - May 25 by Metal_Hacker |
As the Sensei once said "Patience is a Virtue" my child |
Agreed.
1-2 decent signings would get the ball rolling. IF we have a couple of players who are waiting for June 1st to sign then it could really accelerate.
A really decent CM would be ideal. |  |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:47 - May 25 with 3267 views | homer_123 |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:36 - May 25 by StokieBlue |
That's quite a big call Joe, you don't think there will be any qualitative upgrade on what we've had for the previous few years?
Isn't it pretty early to be making that call? We didn't even have the best players in this division last year and we should be able to compete with all clubs in this league.
We are probably still a draw to many in this league as well. Saw this yesterday, shows how far we have fallen but also shows that people still feel we shouldn't be here.
SB [Post edited 25 May 2021 16:39]
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Be interested to see how squad looks at start of next season.... by homer_123 10 May 2021 20:58Let's not delude ourselves how difficult a task rebuilding this squad will be.
There seems to be an assumption that our financial situation coupled with so many players out of contract means we should find it easy to attract the right players.
It might not be the case. We could easily find ourselves fighting off many other clubs for the players we want and need. Just because there will be a dearth of players on the market doesn't mean they will be the ones we want.
I hope we don't rue the missed opportunity this year with the absolute non-attempt at getting in the play-offs when Cook arrived.
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:51 - May 25 with 3214 views | SamWhiteUK |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:38 - May 25 by portmanking |
It's a huge call, given that most business won't be announced/finalised until next month at the earliest.
You really do have quite the downer on this new ITFC regime, don't you Joe? |
He wanted the Cowleys |  | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:53 - May 25 with 3187 views | TractorCam |
Long, long summer. |  |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:56 - May 25 with 3137 views | BiGDonnie |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:36 - May 25 by StokieBlue |
That's quite a big call Joe, you don't think there will be any qualitative upgrade on what we've had for the previous few years?
Isn't it pretty early to be making that call? We didn't even have the best players in this division last year and we should be able to compete with all clubs in this league.
We are probably still a draw to many in this league as well. Saw this yesterday, shows how far we have fallen but also shows that people still feel we shouldn't be here.
SB [Post edited 25 May 2021 16:39]
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Someone should tell him it wasn't that much of a feat and 23 other managers had to pinch themselves too! |  |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:59 - May 25 with 3111 views | homer_123 |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:51 - May 25 by SamWhiteUK |
He wanted the Cowleys |
I think you'll find Joe was very much like myself.
Whilst the Cowleys would have been first choice - Cook was certainly the second.
I'd have preferred the Cowleys for the fact that I feel they would be better with a long term re-build whereas Cook had the edge on a more immediate approach.
Pretty sure Joe was similar, without wanting to put words in his mouth. | |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:00 - May 25 with 3111 views | itfcjoe |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:36 - May 25 by StokieBlue |
That's quite a big call Joe, you don't think there will be any qualitative upgrade on what we've had for the previous few years?
Isn't it pretty early to be making that call? We didn't even have the best players in this division last year and we should be able to compete with all clubs in this league.
We are probably still a draw to many in this league as well. Saw this yesterday, shows how far we have fallen but also shows that people still feel we shouldn't be here.
SB [Post edited 25 May 2021 16:39]
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I think it's just a case that what we have has been poorly utilised and under performed - I think the refresh is needed....but if we do lose Downes, Dozzell, Woolfenden, etc then I don't see that we will be replacing them with players with as high a ceiling as they have.
The squad has had the life sucked out of it by Lambert - as much as the fans have been Ipswich-ified the players have done to - there's clearly real quality in there, which i guess we'll see when a number move up rather than down, but we and they need a fresh start.
I struggle to see us attracting a load of players of the quality of someone like Bradley who we appeared close to simply because of the restrictions in place. You aren't going to get Champ quality without paying Champ wages and when we are limited to 60% of turnover how do you do that?
We'll undoubetdly be better next season, I'm not too concerned about that - but think that will be because we have an engaged manager from Day 1 with some of his guys in place to give us a proper pre season | |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:02 - May 25 with 3093 views | clive_baker |
My nervousness with such a broad brush approach to the existing squad was always the extent to which it makes this recruitment harder. Going into the summer needing / wanting 8-10 to add to an existing 6-8 or so is a hard enough task, but it's a lot less challenging and a very different proposition to trying to find a new squad of 16-18, and expecting them to gel. The recent conversations felt a bit OTT to me based on my understanding of them, and for all intents and purposes we now have a former squad that are all but resigned to their fate. I can't help but feel a handful would've been able to add value in the right side, at this level, and take some of the pressure off the recruitment.
It's certainly left us with a lot of work to do in the transfer market. It is early days, and the noises are that we're going after some capable players which is encouraging, but it's one thing sniffing around them and another thing altogether actually getting them in the door.
Lets see what the next couple of months brings. |  |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:02 - May 25 with 3090 views | SWGF |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:36 - May 25 by StokieBlue |
That's quite a big call Joe, you don't think there will be any qualitative upgrade on what we've had for the previous few years?
Isn't it pretty early to be making that call? We didn't even have the best players in this division last year and we should be able to compete with all clubs in this league.
We are probably still a draw to many in this league as well. Saw this yesterday, shows how far we have fallen but also shows that people still feel we shouldn't be here.
SB [Post edited 25 May 2021 16:39]
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The market we're able to shop in will be intriguing but I can't believe that those in charge aren't *fully* aware of this and the restrictions we are working to in terms of 60% of turnover on wages, etc. As has been said by Illy, Cook wouldn't have blown-up the squad if he didn't feel relatively secure in the knowledge he's getting who he wants, would he....??!
Fact of the matter is, if we find ourselves in a bun-fight with a Champ club for an out-of-contract player, the player will go to the Champ club as they'll be able to offer higher wages and a higher standard of football (see Sonny Bradley). It'll only be players that no Champ clubs want.
We aren't hamstrung by fees. I just wonder whether we'll use *that* to our advantage over other L1 clubs in that we could buy the better players in L1 and offer them higher wages than they are on, yet still lower than a Champ player would expect. For example, offer £1m for Matty Taylor or £500k for Kirk, etc. |  |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:03 - May 25 with 3080 views | itfcjoe |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:38 - May 25 by portmanking |
It's a huge call, given that most business won't be announced/finalised until next month at the earliest.
You really do have quite the downer on this new ITFC regime, don't you Joe? |
I think we've gone about it wrong currently - had we just let those with an option expire we'd be at 14 or so senior pros, a much more realsitic position to trade from to get a good squad of 20 players.
2-3 out, 8-9 in......as it is we need to get 9-10 out to get 9-10 in which isn't going to be easy and think it may hamstring us
The SCMP rules concern me, i60% of turnover isn't oing to see us recruit many from the Championship which is what it seems we want to dfo | |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:06 - May 25 with 2998 views | J2BLUE |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:03 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I think we've gone about it wrong currently - had we just let those with an option expire we'd be at 14 or so senior pros, a much more realsitic position to trade from to get a good squad of 20 players.
2-3 out, 8-9 in......as it is we need to get 9-10 out to get 9-10 in which isn't going to be easy and think it may hamstring us
The SCMP rules concern me, i60% of turnover isn't oing to see us recruit many from the Championship which is what it seems we want to dfo |
How strict is it? Is there a sliding scale of fines or is it points deduction? | |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:06 - May 25 with 2993 views | StokieBlue |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:00 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I think it's just a case that what we have has been poorly utilised and under performed - I think the refresh is needed....but if we do lose Downes, Dozzell, Woolfenden, etc then I don't see that we will be replacing them with players with as high a ceiling as they have.
The squad has had the life sucked out of it by Lambert - as much as the fans have been Ipswich-ified the players have done to - there's clearly real quality in there, which i guess we'll see when a number move up rather than down, but we and they need a fresh start.
I struggle to see us attracting a load of players of the quality of someone like Bradley who we appeared close to simply because of the restrictions in place. You aren't going to get Champ quality without paying Champ wages and when we are limited to 60% of turnover how do you do that?
We'll undoubetdly be better next season, I'm not too concerned about that - but think that will be because we have an engaged manager from Day 1 with some of his guys in place to give us a proper pre season |
Fair enough.
With regards to attracting Championship players that is clearly the goal but if it proves difficult then my point was that there were plenty of players in this division who were better/performed better than what we had last season and getting them would been a qualitative improvement. I would be surprised if the overall squad ended up not being better than last season but I guess we will see in 2 months time.
I agree on Downes, Dozzell and Wolfie about their possible ceilings but if they aren't performing at their ceilings (which I think it's hard to argue they were) then other players are as effective as them. I am still not convinced all 3 will be leaving, I hope they don't and they do push on.
Aren't there numerous ways around SCMP? I believe Phil said the other day that promotion bonuses are included for instance?
Your last paragraph is certainly true and will definitely help things.
SB [Post edited 25 May 2021 17:07]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:06 - May 25 with 2993 views | chrismakin |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:03 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I think we've gone about it wrong currently - had we just let those with an option expire we'd be at 14 or so senior pros, a much more realsitic position to trade from to get a good squad of 20 players.
2-3 out, 8-9 in......as it is we need to get 9-10 out to get 9-10 in which isn't going to be easy and think it may hamstring us
The SCMP rules concern me, i60% of turnover isn't oing to see us recruit many from the Championship which is what it seems we want to dfo |
But without knowing what our turnover is going to be we dint know how many champ wages we can afford there are loopholes available in league 1 that you dont get in the champ and we have one of the most commercially savvy owner groups and CEOs in the league.
The first 3 signings for me will show our cards.
I still think downes has been tested by PC. He if wants to stay he will stay and play. But hes got to want to. | |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:10 - May 25 with 2944 views | clive_baker |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:03 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I think we've gone about it wrong currently - had we just let those with an option expire we'd be at 14 or so senior pros, a much more realsitic position to trade from to get a good squad of 20 players.
2-3 out, 8-9 in......as it is we need to get 9-10 out to get 9-10 in which isn't going to be easy and think it may hamstring us
The SCMP rules concern me, i60% of turnover isn't oing to see us recruit many from the Championship which is what it seems we want to dfo |
I don't think the SCMP rules much of a consideration when an owner / owners can inject equity at any time, which gets included within turnover? It of course makes a mockery of the system, but there's nothing stopping the owners plugging that gap, should they so wish. | |
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| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:14 - May 25 with 2879 views | portmanking |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:51 - May 25 by SamWhiteUK |
He wanted the Cowleys |
So did I!
But that doesn't mean Cook can't achieve what we all want. He's vastly experienced and more proven on paper than Cowley at this level. We just need to have a little faith and take a breath. | | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:15 - May 25 with 2865 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:02 - May 25 by SWGF |
The market we're able to shop in will be intriguing but I can't believe that those in charge aren't *fully* aware of this and the restrictions we are working to in terms of 60% of turnover on wages, etc. As has been said by Illy, Cook wouldn't have blown-up the squad if he didn't feel relatively secure in the knowledge he's getting who he wants, would he....??!
Fact of the matter is, if we find ourselves in a bun-fight with a Champ club for an out-of-contract player, the player will go to the Champ club as they'll be able to offer higher wages and a higher standard of football (see Sonny Bradley). It'll only be players that no Champ clubs want.
We aren't hamstrung by fees. I just wonder whether we'll use *that* to our advantage over other L1 clubs in that we could buy the better players in L1 and offer them higher wages than they are on, yet still lower than a Champ player would expect. For example, offer £1m for Matty Taylor or £500k for Kirk, etc. |
My understanding is that SCMP is pretty easy to manipulate as any owner injections are treated as part of turnover figure, as long as they aren't loans. Not saying that will happen but it's an option. I also suspect this season will see the largest commercial income we have had in a while with the Ed Sheeran sponsorship (we have no idea how that is financially structured in itself) and increased shirt sales etc.
We have a real fight on our hands to get players of the rumoured calibre but like you I think we must be pretty sure we can and will improve the squad this summer. It seems like Bradley really was close (and he still hasn't signed a new deal yet). I do feel like the first couple of signings are going to be key though, if you can get in a couple that make others sit up and take notice you never know. | | | |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 17:18 - May 25 with 2827 views | billlm |
| Does anyone actually want to come here? on 16:34 - May 25 by itfcjoe |
I think that may be the case - ultimately whatever the vision, or the future of the club, the only way we will attract players here is to pay them more money than they can earn elsewhere.
Coming up against Championship clubs, restrained by SCMP, makes that very difficult - and think we will just have a refresh of squad rather than an upgrade on quality |
Joe, when All is said and done I think this could well be where the dust settles, All this financial in put isn't going to do us much good in league 1, One year to late, |  | | |
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