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I didn’t realise the bigoted old fool seablu still posted on here until I’d seen you reply to him. Still, I do feel pleased for him that he’s moved on to a new target to obsess over since I put him in the trash bin.
1. I keep see people referring to ambulances being blocked. I've seen videos of the protestors moving out of the way for ambulances so I'm not entirely sure what people are talking about. Are they any specific incidents of them blocking emergency vehicles? If so that is wrong but I've not seen it yet. I'm fairly sure ambulances are used to dealing with traffic jams across the country, given how common they are.
2. People missing hospital appointments is bad and I feel for them. At the same time, if I had an important appointment I'd be trying to make sure I get there with time to spare and be checking the traffic before I left, especially if there had already been disruption.
3. There have been mentions of this already being fixed. As far as I'm aware the protestors are saying that they are not going anywhere near fast enough. I don't have the stats on this but others might. I would say that successive Governments have promised lots of things and then not delivered so it wouldn't exactly be shocking for the Government to say promise one thing and then not deliver.
4. Some have asked for example protests that are effective and do not inconvenience others. Does anybody have these examples as nobody appears to have responded to them?
But as mentioned, they’ve not been enough. Most the climate action governments and corps are doing is largely bigged up PR and greenwashing.
Fossil fuel investments are going up. We’re still smashing up rainforests. Bees are still heavily at risk of extinction down the line.
The end result is displacement through land issues where food cannot grow and people cannot safely live. This will cause an eco-refugee crisis within same countries (UK-included). If you live local to our club this issue may affect you very early on, as Ipswich is at heavy risk of permanent flooding. As land to grow food on and safe water availability is reduced so is our ability to survive. Pandemics that make COVID look like a day in the park will run ravage. Wars will erupt over resources. A lot of life will suffer and die forever, humans included. Your children, grandchildren and many generations more will have to live through it. You may even live to see it if you’re young. I’m in my mid-30s and if I can make it to a bit past the current retirement age I’d expect to see it. It would easily top the 1400s for the worst periods of recorded history to exist.
I don’t think people really grasp the gravity of the situation. I’d say blocking the M25 to raise awareness of that is a means to an end.
But as mentioned, they’ve not been enough. Most the climate action governments and corps are doing is largely bigged up PR and greenwashing.
Fossil fuel investments are going up. We’re still smashing up rainforests. Bees are still heavily at risk of extinction down the line.
The end result is displacement through land issues where food cannot grow and people cannot safely live. This will cause an eco-refugee crisis within same countries (UK-included). If you live local to our club this issue may affect you very early on, as Ipswich is at heavy risk of permanent flooding. As land to grow food on and safe water availability is reduced so is our ability to survive. Pandemics that make COVID look like a day in the park will run ravage. Wars will erupt over resources. A lot of life will suffer and die forever, humans included. Your children, grandchildren and many generations more will have to live through it. You may even live to see it if you’re young. I’m in my mid-30s and if I can make it to a bit past the current retirement age I’d expect to see it. It would easily top the 1400s for the worst periods of recorded history to exist.
I don’t think people really grasp the gravity of the situation. I’d say blocking the M25 to raise awareness of that is a means to an end.
Yeah, it's fine having UK legislation around recycling and chemical use but not so much when most of our manufacturing is now overseas.
Therefore the protesters would be more effective if they aimed their protests directly at the politicians responsible for that, plus at other countries such as China, the USA, India, Russia etc.; rather than UK citizens - many of whom, possibly most, are already environmentally conscious & responsibly doing their bit whilst going about their essential business.
Dunno how long I’ll be around. I still read and regularly face palm. Too much banging heads against brick walls here. No surprise I see a lot of the more venomous defenders of facts and human rights have also gone in the meantime.
Dunno how long I’ll be around. I still read and regularly face palm. Too much banging heads against brick walls here. No surprise I see a lot of the more venomous defenders of facts and human rights have also gone in the meantime.
Are we as a species so short sighted that holidays, ambulances and cancer treatments are vitally urgent, yet the habitable existence of the earth isn't?
When would climate change come into that first category? When it's too late I'd imagine.
So I think the protesters would argue that yes it's terrible people have missed life saving appointments etc but we're on course to miss a bigger appointment that will save all human life (bit cringy but you get my point)
How do you raise the generation who are becoming nihilistic due to climate change? It won't go away and walking down to parliment square does feck all.
"Are we as a species so short sighted that holidays, ambulances and cancer treatments are vitally urgent, yet the habitable existence of the earth isn't?"
Yes. Short-sighted, distracted, whatever you want to call it. People can't see climate change in front of their faces each day, so it becomes abstract. Something like 150k-250k people dying each year to impacts of CC is someone else's problem, so that really important meeting to go through last month's sales figures is all that matters right now. It's inevitable really; and especially when serious personal things are interrupted. This thread illustrates the point quite nicely.
Although in general I think the tide is slowly turning and more people are recognising that we need to be better custodians of the planet. Obviously still a long way to go and it's maybe to little too late, but at least some people genuinely care.
You know nothing about the M25 therefore you know nothing about the climate emergency and civil disobedience.
Some people really don’t think their GOTCHA moments very far ahead, do they?!
that makes no sense, the two arent linked, are they?
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whatever is said, ill never move from my opinion that these d1ckheads laying in the road are wrong for doing it in this way. people have lives to go about. having been largely on hold for 18 odd months.
its a real shame they didnt get dragged away forcefully by the police. you know like football fans would be if they were drinking on a privately hired coach on the m25
But as mentioned, they’ve not been enough. Most the climate action governments and corps are doing is largely bigged up PR and greenwashing.
Fossil fuel investments are going up. We’re still smashing up rainforests. Bees are still heavily at risk of extinction down the line.
The end result is displacement through land issues where food cannot grow and people cannot safely live. This will cause an eco-refugee crisis within same countries (UK-included). If you live local to our club this issue may affect you very early on, as Ipswich is at heavy risk of permanent flooding. As land to grow food on and safe water availability is reduced so is our ability to survive. Pandemics that make COVID look like a day in the park will run ravage. Wars will erupt over resources. A lot of life will suffer and die forever, humans included. Your children, grandchildren and many generations more will have to live through it. You may even live to see it if you’re young. I’m in my mid-30s and if I can make it to a bit past the current retirement age I’d expect to see it. It would easily top the 1400s for the worst periods of recorded history to exist.
I don’t think people really grasp the gravity of the situation. I’d say blocking the M25 to raise awareness of that is a means to an end.
[Post edited 16 Sep 2021 12:00]
Welcome back, hope you're OK ðŸ‘
I 100% agree with you on all you say about the climate crisis itself, and the immediate perils facing humanity right now - it's horrendous, and frightening, and I'm in my 70s & don't even have kids. I've said multiple times before that I'm constantly bewildered by the politicians & those in power (literally, considering the fossil fuel industries) who don't seem to realise that their kids, grandkids & greats - if humankind survives that long - won't be able to eat, drink or breathe gold bars.
I've also said a few times that I'd make it mandatory for all world leaders to be required to watch 'Earth Rise' footage taken from the ISS before being allowed to take office.
We simply disagree (as has happened before!) on the form and usefulness of the protest. It's no use aiming vaguely & in generalised fashion at people who don't have any real power, esp given our fptp voting system, and causing them not just "inconvenience" but potentially the most serious consequences imaginable to their lives right now. As the fictional Indian character said in the drama - "how can I focus on the survival of the planet 20 years from now, when I have to concentrate on surviving until tomorrow?" You may think that's only the case for a few individuals, but others do feel for those, and as Funge said, the environmental movements have to win hearts and minds.
that makes no sense, the two arent linked, are they?
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whatever is said, ill never move from my opinion that these d1ckheads laying in the road are wrong for doing it in this way. people have lives to go about. having been largely on hold for 18 odd months.
its a real shame they didnt get dragged away forcefully by the police. you know like football fans would be if they were drinking on a privately hired coach on the m25
What does Dan’s limited knowledge of driving the M25 mean to his opinions on climate change? They are different issues. Screams of an argument running out of steam if that’s the best response climate genocide apologists can come up with!
In 30-40 years when you are wondering where your next meal or safe haven will be I expect you might think back and have a “OHHHHHH THAT’S WHY” moment. It’s never too late to do change your mind before then though. Your ancestors will thank you.
I 100% agree with you on all you say about the climate crisis itself, and the immediate perils facing humanity right now - it's horrendous, and frightening, and I'm in my 70s & don't even have kids. I've said multiple times before that I'm constantly bewildered by the politicians & those in power (literally, considering the fossil fuel industries) who don't seem to realise that their kids, grandkids & greats - if humankind survives that long - won't be able to eat, drink or breathe gold bars.
I've also said a few times that I'd make it mandatory for all world leaders to be required to watch 'Earth Rise' footage taken from the ISS before being allowed to take office.
We simply disagree (as has happened before!) on the form and usefulness of the protest. It's no use aiming vaguely & in generalised fashion at people who don't have any real power, esp given our fptp voting system, and causing them not just "inconvenience" but potentially the most serious consequences imaginable to their lives right now. As the fictional Indian character said in the drama - "how can I focus on the survival of the planet 20 years from now, when I have to concentrate on surviving until tomorrow?" You may think that's only the case for a few individuals, but others do feel for those, and as Funge said, the environmental movements have to win hearts and minds.
All of that is valid and can’t disagree.
For me I think “means to an end” is a huge excuse for any non-violent action these days when it comes to the climate emergency. Scientists agree. Which again is part of the issue when people get all their XR opinions from the Leave.EU twitter feed and Darren Grimes. Easy to write them off as crusties and the unemployed when actually that’s factually incorrect boll0cks.
I think a few people here could do with leaving their bubble and talking to people they disagree with. Ironically I’ve been doing that on here for a decade yet the same people with their heads in the sand will project their problem on anyone who won’t agree to disagree.
What does Dan’s limited knowledge of driving the M25 mean to his opinions on climate change? They are different issues. Screams of an argument running out of steam if that’s the best response climate genocide apologists can come up with!
In 30-40 years when you are wondering where your next meal or safe haven will be I expect you might think back and have a “OHHHHHH THAT’S WHY” moment. It’s never too late to do change your mind before then though. Your ancestors will thank you.
i agree, his limited knowledge of the m25 has no impact on his opinions of climate change.
whats the issue? im sure we are saying the same thing.
and the second point, revisit that in 30 years shall we? bookmarked
For me I think “means to an end” is a huge excuse for any non-violent action these days when it comes to the climate emergency. Scientists agree. Which again is part of the issue when people get all their XR opinions from the Leave.EU twitter feed and Darren Grimes. Easy to write them off as crusties and the unemployed when actually that’s factually incorrect boll0cks.
I think a few people here could do with leaving their bubble and talking to people they disagree with. Ironically I’ve been doing that on here for a decade yet the same people with their heads in the sand will project their problem on anyone who won’t agree to disagree.
Is it not possible for some of us to agree with their wider point of protest but think deliberately disrupting people trying to go about their lives is the total wrong way to go about it.
All they’ve done is alienate folk in those cars from the cause.
Is it not possible for some of us to agree with their wider point of protest but think deliberately disrupting people trying to go about their lives is the total wrong way to go about it.
All they’ve done is alienate folk in those cars from the cause.
That's not all they've done though, they've got their cause in the news and people discussing the protest. The point of protest isn't to deliberately piss people off, it's to create attention for the cause. It's hard to do that in ways that cause zero disruption as "Man holds up placard" isn't exactly a riveting headline.
That's not all they've done though, they've got their cause in the news and people discussing the protest. The point of protest isn't to deliberately piss people off, it's to create attention for the cause. It's hard to do that in ways that cause zero disruption as "Man holds up placard" isn't exactly a riveting headline.
But being an ars*hole doesn’t reflect well though even if they get in the papers for it.
Is it not possible for some of us to agree with their wider point of protest but think deliberately disrupting people trying to go about their lives is the total wrong way to go about it.
All they’ve done is alienate folk in those cars from the cause.
You can disagree with the actions all you want. I have and still am somewhat involved with XR. Plenty of issues to raise with operations and the human element of things.
But when the best take people can come up with is giving idiots ammo it serves as completely bonkers if one agrees that the climate is an immediate focus. As the reason this stuff happens, again, is the lack of action through gov/corps.
It also only serves to arm those who don’t have the planet and humanity at heart. Lucan’s post was hardly in defence of raising awareness of the climate.
Sometimes the problem is what one doesn’t say as it leaves the point open to exploitation filling in the gaps, whether intentional or not.
But being an ars*hole doesn’t reflect well though even if they get in the papers for it.
Who’s the arseholes though? The hippy in the road causing a temporary delay or the fat cats at corporations who value profit over current and future peace and wellbeing?
That's not all they've done though, they've got their cause in the news and people discussing the protest. The point of protest isn't to deliberately piss people off, it's to create attention for the cause. It's hard to do that in ways that cause zero disruption as "Man holds up placard" isn't exactly a riveting headline.
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