| Boris 07:49 - Oct 5 with 5777 views | blueislander |
Utter shambles from Boris this morning . He is blaming all the current economic problems that the country and the population are suffering on the fact that our economy is recovering very quickly. He totally failed to recognize the reality that many people are having difficulties in getting enough food to feed their families. |  | | |  |
| Boris on 10:15 - Oct 5 with 1370 views | Herbivore |
| Boris on 10:07 - Oct 5 by BlueBadger |
Well, it would appear that daveU is today's duty 'yes but Labour' downvoter.
Imagine being so low in the Kremlin's 'destabilise the west' hierarchy that you get this place for your beat. |
I've yet to ever see daveU post to explain what it is he loves so much about this callous, incompetent, morally bankrupt, corrupt Tory government. He seems very cross about the government being challenged but can't seem to articulate why. |  |
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| Boris on 10:16 - Oct 5 with 1369 views | hype313 |
| Boris on 10:07 - Oct 5 by BlueBadger |
Well, it would appear that daveU is today's duty 'yes but Labour' downvoter.
Imagine being so low in the Kremlin's 'destabilise the west' hierarchy that you get this place for your beat. |
Yes he's disliked my comment, but not enough to warrant a reply. |  |
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| Boris on 10:21 - Oct 5 with 1361 views | BlueBadger |
| Boris on 10:15 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
I've yet to ever see daveU post to explain what it is he loves so much about this callous, incompetent, morally bankrupt, corrupt Tory government. He seems very cross about the government being challenged but can't seem to articulate why. |
'His' profile as the grand total of 0 forum comments, news comments or even match reports.
I'm pretty convinced that 'he' is a bot. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 10:24]
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| Boris on 10:27 - Oct 5 with 1344 views | HARRY10 |
| Boris on 10:00 - Oct 5 by TooManyCooks |
I wouldn't want to tarnish the reputation of all oldies and it certainly was not my intention, apologies if that's how it came across. My parents are in their mid 70's and lived/worked in London all their lives and having grown up knowing the heads of numerous families of differing wealth in that same densely populated geography, it struck me that they were generally united in their thinking towards Government and continue to be so, hence my previous comment.
It is my hope that the generations that follow have a wider range of experiences of Governments and can make decisions that meet the best interests of the whole, rather than the few, though, the way we're all headed, it may well be a moot point anyway as we seem to be finding ever faster methods of destroying the planet. |
Having also lived through the Thatcher years, and did what I xould to resist I do not see that passion or common thought now.
As I said, collective actiin is seen as a total no no, and anyone over the age of 40 is a 'boomer' and so is responsible for everything. Whereas in reality it was the much derided smug generation of oldies who helped bring about equal pay, repeal of homosexuality laws.
Feminism is similarly derided and women see strip clubs and posing on peep shows as truly expressing what it means to be a woman.
Politicians will pss all over future generations as without any solidarity and collective thought they will be picked off without even knowing it. | | | |
| Boris on 10:28 - Oct 5 with 1338 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Boris on 10:00 - Oct 5 by TooManyCooks |
I wouldn't want to tarnish the reputation of all oldies and it certainly was not my intention, apologies if that's how it came across. My parents are in their mid 70's and lived/worked in London all their lives and having grown up knowing the heads of numerous families of differing wealth in that same densely populated geography, it struck me that they were generally united in their thinking towards Government and continue to be so, hence my previous comment.
It is my hope that the generations that follow have a wider range of experiences of Governments and can make decisions that meet the best interests of the whole, rather than the few, though, the way we're all headed, it may well be a moot point anyway as we seem to be finding ever faster methods of destroying the planet. |
I think the shifting sands of opposition parties is what has created the problem. My now-departed in-laws fit the original descriptiont to a 'T' and were both pillars of the Conservative Party in Harrogate, which at the time was too genteel to even countenance a supermarket - until good old Yorkshire folk Asda were allowed in.
After a few years of Thatcher - and the harsh reality of what her policies did to Yorkshire folk - ie make a multimillionaire of one of their nephews by gifting him Yorkshire Buses and all their city centre bus stations to be converted into shopping malls they became ardent Lib Dems.
And there you have the problem.... 'wasted votes'. The party in power is always voted for by a minority of voters - the current 'landslide' was voted in by 44% of the vote. Look at Scottish MPs and you'd think the entire nation was independence mad.
The vast majority of voters never get what they want. In the vast majority of constituencies this has led to deeply ingrained voter apathy as the same party gets in every time over entire lifetimes.. The only real thing that has changed in my lifetime is the quaility of person that goes into 'public service' as an MP. The Suffolk constiency once called Eye that I grew up in is the perfect example - a Tory grandee, 'Sir' Harwood Harrison makes way for the slimy, grasping John Selwyn Gummer, who eventually gives way to that vile Coffey woman. Saffron Walden, where I moved too had 'the best prime minister we've never had'.Rab Butler, giving way to locals who seemed to care - and now the vile Kami Badenough, parachuted in from WImbledon.
The common thread is that they are all conservative - and forever will be. Imagine what's going to happen when Scotland and all it's non-Tory votes gets its independence - the Tory majority in parliament will be huge for ever more. | |
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| Boris on 10:46 - Oct 5 with 1285 views | HARRY10 |
And therein lies the problem - bring in PR and we as voters can do even less.
How many people bother to even inform themselves, or challenge their local MP?
PR just encourages horse trading, back stairs deal and takes politics to an even greater level of squalid behaviour.
Almost every decision made by a government is binary, which means that the parties propping up a government either toe the line or risk collapsing the government, and having seen what happened to the Libdems in 2015, they tag along
Look at some of the odious scum still in Parliament. Where is any conscious decision to remove them ? They are elected repeatedly because they wear the correct colour rosette.
If folk think that their responsibility rests with a vote every 5 years or so, then they should not bleat when we have this current mess. | | | |
| Boris on 11:00 - Oct 5 with 1256 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Boris on 09:51 - Oct 5 by ronnyd |
He must be, by a long long way, the least articulate PM that i can remember, and i'm 76. The problem is that Labour and Starmer are so sh!t that we haven't really got a viable opposition to challenge the bumbling oaf. |
Any of the mainstream parties would be a better option. There's a lot of effort going into persuading us that they wouldn't be, but this is the least honest and less capable government I've ever been aware of. Nasty, vindictive little sh*ts too. |  |
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| Boris on 11:04 - Oct 5 with 1241 views | Herbivore |
| Boris on 11:00 - Oct 5 by Swansea_Blue |
Any of the mainstream parties would be a better option. There's a lot of effort going into persuading us that they wouldn't be, but this is the least honest and less capable government I've ever been aware of. Nasty, vindictive little sh*ts too. |
It does seem to be that this current cabal aren't even pretending to be any good, they are just using their friends in the press to try to create the impression that nobody else would be any better. | |
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| Boris on 11:07 - Oct 5 with 1231 views | TractorWood |
| Boris on 09:18 - Oct 5 by TooManyCooks |
The Conservatives are still dining off the generation of my mother and father, the type of people who paid £2,000 for their first house, when they had a combined annual income of just under half that sum, the party was very good to that generation, they all have nice pensions and plenty of savings, big 4 or 5 bed detached houses with large gardens that are now x20 value etc etc etc
You simply can't turn those sorts, they won't have a word said against the government and will find some way of justifying Government actions, no matter how unjustifiable. They are too old, too blind, too deaf and too obstinate to know if the government actually still has their backs and they don't mind that at all.
We've got 10 -15 years to go before that generation die off and I can't see there being any meaningful opposition until that point. |
I think this is true to an extent. The Tories will survive so long as the FPTP system has enough electorate in constituencies who are rich enough or stupid enough to vote for them.
The Pandora papers are just another example of the mentally rich taking the Mick out of a country that shouldn't stand for it. [Post edited 5 Oct 2021 11:08]
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| Boris on 11:09 - Oct 5 with 1219 views | ElderGrizzly |
And then a continuation of this horrific pun stuff too
He's now done, "Bitter", "Batter" and "Butter" |  | | |
| Boris on 11:11 - Oct 5 with 1200 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Boris on 10:46 - Oct 5 by HARRY10 |
And therein lies the problem - bring in PR and we as voters can do even less.
How many people bother to even inform themselves, or challenge their local MP?
PR just encourages horse trading, back stairs deal and takes politics to an even greater level of squalid behaviour.
Almost every decision made by a government is binary, which means that the parties propping up a government either toe the line or risk collapsing the government, and having seen what happened to the Libdems in 2015, they tag along
Look at some of the odious scum still in Parliament. Where is any conscious decision to remove them ? They are elected repeatedly because they wear the correct colour rosette.
If folk think that their responsibility rests with a vote every 5 years or so, then they should not bleat when we have this current mess. |
German election was last month, should know who is forming the new government by December. No thank you.
Perhaps an elected second house, regional constituencies and some form of proportional representation, perhaps similar to the system used for last European Parliament, is the answer. |  |
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| Boris on 11:28 - Oct 5 with 1161 views | blueislander |
| Boris on 09:08 - Oct 5 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Are people really struggling to get food? Serious question as I may be in danger of looking at this through my own personal lens, but whilst there are shortages on some random items I wasn’t aware there were actual mass shortages as it stands?
Don’t disagree with the wider point though, bluster and lie is the order of the day as ever |
People are struggling to get food because they don’t have the money to buy it. | | | |
| Boris on 11:30 - Oct 5 with 1160 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Boris on 11:04 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
It does seem to be that this current cabal aren't even pretending to be any good, they are just using their friends in the press to try to create the impression that nobody else would be any better. |
Yeah, it seems there are a lot of bad actors in the background. Press, political commentators, Tufton Street, etc. It happens to a degree with all parties, yet this lot have ramped it up to the next level. Trump-esque in terms of the cultish support, propaganda and a basic disregard for the truth. (And that's before we get on to running things into the ground, rampant corruption/cronyism and a contempt for people's welfare). | |
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| Boris on 13:18 - Oct 5 with 1072 views | HARRY10 |
| Boris on 11:11 - Oct 5 by Pinewoodblue |
German election was last month, should know who is forming the new government by December. No thank you.
Perhaps an elected second house, regional constituencies and some form of proportional representation, perhaps similar to the system used for last European Parliament, is the answer. |
That is the point, PR is a disaster which focusses more on under counter political deals that any worthy governance.
The problem comes down to one of accountability, and for most voters that means only squeaking when they are told to.
There has been little shortage of fuel, but because the media panicked them off they went
Who gives a sht about nurses pay now, yet a few months back they were out banging pots and pans in some frenzy of supposed concern - because they were told to.
Matt Hancock resigned because there was so much stink kicked up (but not followed through).
The incompetents are there through indifference, and no amount of 'horse trading' politics will change that. | | | |
| Boris on 13:20 - Oct 5 with 1069 views | Herbivore |
| Boris on 13:18 - Oct 5 by HARRY10 |
That is the point, PR is a disaster which focusses more on under counter political deals that any worthy governance.
The problem comes down to one of accountability, and for most voters that means only squeaking when they are told to.
There has been little shortage of fuel, but because the media panicked them off they went
Who gives a sht about nurses pay now, yet a few months back they were out banging pots and pans in some frenzy of supposed concern - because they were told to.
Matt Hancock resigned because there was so much stink kicked up (but not followed through).
The incompetents are there through indifference, and no amount of 'horse trading' politics will change that. |
Yes, PR is a disaster. That's why Germany is such a mess of a country and we're absolutely smashing it. | |
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| Boris on 17:55 - Oct 5 with 979 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Boris on 11:11 - Oct 5 by Pinewoodblue |
German election was last month, should know who is forming the new government by December. No thank you.
Perhaps an elected second house, regional constituencies and some form of proportional representation, perhaps similar to the system used for last European Parliament, is the answer. |
Haven't noticed any Germans fighting at petrol pumps yet.
I think PR would be very suitable for the UK especially because it breaks the grip of larger parties. At least thats what happened in the RoI. |  | | |
| Boris on 18:00 - Oct 5 with 974 views | Herbivore |
| Boris on 17:55 - Oct 5 by Eireannach_gorm |
Haven't noticed any Germans fighting at petrol pumps yet.
I think PR would be very suitable for the UK especially because it breaks the grip of larger parties. At least thats what happened in the RoI. |
Indeed. The notion our current system is preferable is very odd. The last few years of this country's history have been dominated by the agenda of a fringe group of Tory loons that would likely never get anywhere near power if we had PR. In fact they probably wouldn't even get near the Tory party, at least in its past incarnations. | |
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| Boris on 18:59 - Oct 5 with 942 views | HARRY10 |
| Boris on 18:00 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
Indeed. The notion our current system is preferable is very odd. The last few years of this country's history have been dominated by the agenda of a fringe group of Tory loons that would likely never get anywhere near power if we had PR. In fact they probably wouldn't even get near the Tory party, at least in its past incarnations. |
err, no
With the current FTP we know what we are getting, and we know that apathy will allow crap to happen. A successful business model is not dependant upon a successful political one.
The huge failing with PR is the lack of accountability. People vote for the libdems in 2010 only to see them renege on their manifesto to stay as the Tories handy lapdog. This is routine stuff with PR.
Some may remember the starnge stuff the Tories had in their 2017 manifesto - added so as to be traded away if they needed the libdems, as it appeared they might.
There is this rather silly idea that if you have a pro capital punishment party propped up (PR) by a non capital punishment party, there is some middle ground that will be achieved.
What happens with PR is that the manifesto pledges are scrubbed clean for the smaller party (s), and the voters opinions are then worthless.
There is no evidence either that any smaller party has ever had any realistic input, they mostly serve the purpose of making up the numbers.
Any system has its flaws, but certainly not the 'corruption' of PR.
Where the fault lies is in apathy and ignorance on the voters part. Ask the average Brexiteer what the difference is between the EI Commission, the council and the Parliament and they haven't a focking clue - other than to bleat some billhooks about it all being undemocratic.
And sadly as PR is bleated in the same manner as brexit - it cures all ills, it serves to distract people from the real problem.
Ask the average voter what the NI protocol is and why it is there ?
The answer you get will tell you why some anti-democratic guff such as PR is still whispered in hushed tones, as the 'Prince over the water'. | | | |
| Boris on 19:18 - Oct 5 with 934 views | Herbivore |
| Boris on 18:59 - Oct 5 by HARRY10 |
err, no
With the current FTP we know what we are getting, and we know that apathy will allow crap to happen. A successful business model is not dependant upon a successful political one.
The huge failing with PR is the lack of accountability. People vote for the libdems in 2010 only to see them renege on their manifesto to stay as the Tories handy lapdog. This is routine stuff with PR.
Some may remember the starnge stuff the Tories had in their 2017 manifesto - added so as to be traded away if they needed the libdems, as it appeared they might.
There is this rather silly idea that if you have a pro capital punishment party propped up (PR) by a non capital punishment party, there is some middle ground that will be achieved.
What happens with PR is that the manifesto pledges are scrubbed clean for the smaller party (s), and the voters opinions are then worthless.
There is no evidence either that any smaller party has ever had any realistic input, they mostly serve the purpose of making up the numbers.
Any system has its flaws, but certainly not the 'corruption' of PR.
Where the fault lies is in apathy and ignorance on the voters part. Ask the average Brexiteer what the difference is between the EI Commission, the council and the Parliament and they haven't a focking clue - other than to bleat some billhooks about it all being undemocratic.
And sadly as PR is bleated in the same manner as brexit - it cures all ills, it serves to distract people from the real problem.
Ask the average voter what the NI protocol is and why it is there ?
The answer you get will tell you why some anti-democratic guff such as PR is still whispered in hushed tones, as the 'Prince over the water'. |
Couldn't be arsed to read all that but using 2010 as an example is nonsense given that it happened within a FTPT system. If you want voters to engage with the political system not throwing away half the votes (more in many constituencies) would probably be a good way to start. The majority of people on here live in East Anglia where a couple of seats aside your vote is utterly pointless. That doesn't foster a healthy political culture. And the ridiculous winner takes all mentality of FTPT isn't healthy either. | |
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| Boris on 19:19 - Oct 5 with 933 views | BlueNomad |
If you want to see what “ordinary” people think pay a visit each day to BBC News website Have Your Say item. The majority of comments are absolute bigotry where any challenge makes you a “lefty”. Don’t bother countering anything with evidence. I admit that making a daily visit is a bit masochistic and makes me feel unclean but I always want to see if I can be more shocked than the previous day. |  | | |
| Boris on 07:10 - Oct 7 with 802 views | tractordownsouth |
| Boris on 19:18 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
Couldn't be arsed to read all that but using 2010 as an example is nonsense given that it happened within a FTPT system. If you want voters to engage with the political system not throwing away half the votes (more in many constituencies) would probably be a good way to start. The majority of people on here live in East Anglia where a couple of seats aside your vote is utterly pointless. That doesn't foster a healthy political culture. And the ridiculous winner takes all mentality of FTPT isn't healthy either. |
I think the PR debate would be much better if those advocating it could agree on a system, whether that's pure regional PR, STV or a hybrid system like AMS.
I'm unsure what I think of the idea - while the Tories could never win a majority under pure PR, they'd be able to scare even more people into voting for them to avoid a "coalition of chaos" under Labour, Lib Dems and Greens whilst bringing Farage into government as a junior partner themselves, which is quite a scary prospect.
I'm definitely open to it if a system can be agreed though. |  |
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| Boris on 08:00 - Oct 7 with 761 views | Herbivore |
| Boris on 07:10 - Oct 7 by tractordownsouth |
I think the PR debate would be much better if those advocating it could agree on a system, whether that's pure regional PR, STV or a hybrid system like AMS.
I'm unsure what I think of the idea - while the Tories could never win a majority under pure PR, they'd be able to scare even more people into voting for them to avoid a "coalition of chaos" under Labour, Lib Dems and Greens whilst bringing Farage into government as a junior partner themselves, which is quite a scary prospect.
I'm definitely open to it if a system can be agreed though. |
I doubt the Tory party as it currently is would still exist under PR, nor would Labour. | |
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| Boris on 21:47 - Oct 7 with 672 views | HARRY10 |
While it is losses like this that make the headlines
https://www.businessinsider.com/intel-didnt-consider-uk-new-factory-because-of-b
Intel would no longer consider building semiconductor factories in the UK because of Brexit, the firm's boss told the BBC. Pat Gelsinger, CEO of the chipmaker since February, says the firm is now looking at "EU countries and getting support from the EU."
It is the slow but constant relocating of UK businesses to Europe that is the real concern for the economy. As the costs, delays and red tape continue to bite the logistics of having your production based in the UK if you trade with the EU, will no longer make financial sense. Certainly not now the UK has blocked off the flexible labour force it previously had. One that could quickly respond to changing demand.
Despite the shy.te the bloated buffoon spouts, it is easier to move someone from Poland to a shared flat in 'the south', than it is to get someone in Pontefract to sell his house and move. And no amount of wage increase will change that reality.
When the industrial revolution took off, employers built housing near the factories. We now have such a dysfunctional housing system that huge parts of the country are blocked off from employees moving there - unless you are a youngster from the EU who will readily house share as the enhanced lifestyle in the UK makes it worthwhile.
That route is neither financially or socially viable for many in parts of high unemployment in the UK. To address that would mean a considerable shock to those indented through mortgages. And no party has been willing to take the action needed, so the country continues to fatten the cuckoo in its nest that is slowly killing it. Brexit is merely speeding that death more hurriedly than would otherwise be.
{b]Banks and insurers have moved almost £1tn ($1.4tn) out of Britain and shifted thousands of jobs to Europe due to Brexit, according to a "sobering" new report on the impact of leaving the EU on Britain's financial services sector.
More than 440 financial services firms have shifted jobs to the EU as a result of Brexit, according to a new report from think tank New Financial, and firms have moved £900bn to the EU. The think tank said more jobs and assets were likely to leave Britain in the coming months and years. | | | |
| Boris on 22:35 - Oct 7 with 633 views | tractordownsouth |
| Boris on 08:00 - Oct 7 by Herbivore |
I doubt the Tory party as it currently is would still exist under PR, nor would Labour. |
That’s another reason I’m unsure - the Tory Party has always been better at putting its differences aside so would be less likely to split than Labour, therefore further increasing the chances of a Tory win. | |
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| Boris on 22:44 - Oct 7 with 618 views | mylittletown |
| Boris on 11:11 - Oct 5 by Pinewoodblue |
German election was last month, should know who is forming the new government by December. No thank you.
Perhaps an elected second house, regional constituencies and some form of proportional representation, perhaps similar to the system used for last European Parliament, is the answer. |
Yes, because the German economy has been a total disaster since we, the Brits, set up their PR electoral system.
Thank God that we haven't been held back in the same way. |  | | |
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