| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. 23:48 - Nov 6 with 6489 views | unstableblue |
… the team??
I like Toto, and being at Wycombe I saw some of his heroic defending
But that was a howler again today…. Yes I know all the players struggled to get into gear today, perhaps more focussed on the league
But just few Toto always has an error in his locker
I kind of feel today it showed that our final settled selection to bring the necessary run of consistent wins is not settled, will it be:
Walton
Donacien Edmundson Burgess Coulsen
Morsy evans
Aluko Chaplin edwards
Bonne [Post edited 6 Nov 2021 23:52]
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:01 - Nov 7 with 914 views | pointofblue |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 12:58 - Nov 7 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Don’t worry, we know you’ll be keeping the torch for Woolfenden regardless of his performances. |
At least we balance each other out?  I stand by thinking Woolfenden and Burgess were starting to gel before Cook introduced Edmundson for Bolton - in fairness, after a shocking start, he is clearly the best centre back at the club.
I stand by thinking that he’s not as bad as you make out but, fair enough, not as good as I sometimes perhaps present him to be. |  |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:04 - Nov 7 with 904 views | jayessess |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:01 - Nov 7 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Again, no player has been scrutinized as much as Toto. Nowhere near that.
We've been much more in defence since he's been back. One mistake yesterday and some can't wait to point out at this. |
Hard to quantify really, I think they both get an unfair amount of stick. |  |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:05 - Nov 7 with 893 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:01 - Nov 7 by pointofblue |
At least we balance each other out? I stand by thinking Woolfenden and Burgess were starting to gel before Cook introduced Edmundson for Bolton - in fairness, after a shocking start, he is clearly the best centre back at the club.
I stand by thinking that he’s not as bad as you make out but, fair enough, not as good as I sometimes perhaps present him to be. |
Burgess and Woolfenden to gel?   Hahahahahah......Have you ever seen them in action?
Burgess has been a poor addition thus far and no wonder that he had got dropped from the CB position after the Cambridge game. The defence has improved considerably after that so what are you talking about? |  | | |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:10 - Nov 7 with 888 views | pointofblue |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:05 - Nov 7 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Burgess and Woolfenden to gel? Hahahahahah......Have you ever seen them in action?
Burgess has been a poor addition thus far and no wonder that he had got dropped from the CB position after the Cambridge game. The defence has improved considerably after that so what are you talking about? |
Yes. Maybe I saw games differently but in general I thought we were looking more solid with those two than Nsiala-Woolfenden. We mainly conceded via individual errors, not always made by the centre backs. That’s not to say there hasn’t been an improvement since and, despite growing pains, Cook made the right decision.
I do agree to an extent about Burgess, though - it feels like we were scrabbling for a centre back since the Bradley debacle and ended up just happy to get someone, anyone, in. | |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:11 - Nov 7 with 887 views | Wickets |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 01:07 - Nov 7 by Garv |
He didn't have a dodgy game, he just lost a couple of physical battles that unfortunately for him led to goals. |
And they were at least forced errors from the big Cambridge striker the difference for me is Toto's errors are often unforced as per yesterday as all he had too do was keep his eye on the ball and clear it . |  | | |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:12 - Nov 7 with 882 views | unstableblue |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 12:55 - Nov 7 by ArnieM |
Our defence isn’t quite good enough for our promotion plans tbh . We need another CB and a left back. Penney I’d no better than Kenlock tbh and Coulson appears to be always injured . I’d say we also need another GK on the assumption that Holy will leave soon and I don’t really rate Hladky I’m afraid. |
Yeah… I said the other day that under Burley it took a long long time to get the right mix of players to meet his goals… left back and centre back seem not quite right
I should say I do rate Toto on his day, I like his energy, he pings the ball around nicely, and is well liked, it’s just saturdays error was so basic
And Edmundson is looking consistently good
Unfortunately the fans rightly crave promotion, so need the squad right and right now
On a positive note Walton is looking very solid and Donacien when he came on Saturday showed his recent form
I think we can read too much into Saturday, though, as I have been doing - just don’t think the players cared about Oldham and the Fa cup as much as we and cook did… and it seems large swathes of the north stand also didn’t care also | |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:14 - Nov 7 with 868 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:10 - Nov 7 by pointofblue |
Yes. Maybe I saw games differently but in general I thought we were looking more solid with those two than Nsiala-Woolfenden. We mainly conceded via individual errors, not always made by the centre backs. That’s not to say there hasn’t been an improvement since and, despite growing pains, Cook made the right decision.
I do agree to an extent about Burgess, though - it feels like we were scrabbling for a centre back since the Bradley debacle and ended up just happy to get someone, anyone, in. |
Nsiala - Edmundson are by far the best CB's combo and Cook ought to continue with them for the rest of the season imo. | | | |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:21 - Nov 7 with 868 views | jayessess |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:11 - Nov 7 by Wickets |
And they were at least forced errors from the big Cambridge striker the difference for me is Toto's errors are often unforced as per yesterday as all he had too do was keep his eye on the ball and clear it . |
Don't see how the first against Cambridge is any more or less a "forced error" than the goal yesterday. Burgess is too eager to win the ball, mis-judges the flight, gets under it, ends up allowing Ironside to collect the ball to feet with a 10 yard start on him. | |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:22 - Nov 7 with 861 views | pointofblue |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:14 - Nov 7 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Nsiala - Edmundson are by far the best CB's combo and Cook ought to continue with them for the rest of the season imo. |
I think I’d prefer to see another centre back brought in, letting Woolfenden go so he can get playing time. Mind you, the amount of effort it took to just find and sign Burgess… | |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:23 - Nov 7 with 855 views | clive_baker |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 12:50 - Nov 7 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Toto Nsiala being scrutinized by some 'experts' part 45 618
No player in the last few years has been treated by some like Toto is. Our defence has improved considerably since he's been back in the team. No wonder it all has been much better. But for those 'experts' his mistake is much more significant than last 4 league games in which he played.
Moreover, even Cook says that Toto is one of the best CB's at this level......but no, he has made a mistake so that warrants a criticism from some.
Had Woolfenden who is an error prone bang average League One player played and made a mistake this kind of thread wouldn't have been created. Because 'he is one our own' so large number of people keep winking at his mistakes and poor performances.
Toto is our key component if we aim to get promoted. |
I mean I think most people are balanced enough to say it how it is. It’s also possible to have an opinion on a footballer without it being impacted by a racial prejudice as was insinuated of the OP, with no basis.
I think defensively generally Cook hasn’t addressed the area particularly well. He’s signed, presumably, a first choice keeper in Hladky who he quickly replaced. He signed 2 left backs and I’m still not sure who he prefers, he’s signed a CB in Burgess who he swiftly dropped, he’s bombed Woolfenden out which I would have to say I do agree with, he’s been poor and has more errors in him than Toto. Right back is a bit of a mess, again I don’t think he knows his preferred choice. It’s all very well having depth but it’s also an area where we need partnerships. The goals for and goals against columns tell a story really, and it’s the latter that we need to improve on. I think it’s a bit of a mess, and it might well cost us this season IMO. |  |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:31 - Nov 7 with 839 views | itfcjoe |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:23 - Nov 7 by clive_baker |
I mean I think most people are balanced enough to say it how it is. It’s also possible to have an opinion on a footballer without it being impacted by a racial prejudice as was insinuated of the OP, with no basis.
I think defensively generally Cook hasn’t addressed the area particularly well. He’s signed, presumably, a first choice keeper in Hladky who he quickly replaced. He signed 2 left backs and I’m still not sure who he prefers, he’s signed a CB in Burgess who he swiftly dropped, he’s bombed Woolfenden out which I would have to say I do agree with, he’s been poor and has more errors in him than Toto. Right back is a bit of a mess, again I don’t think he knows his preferred choice. It’s all very well having depth but it’s also an area where we need partnerships. The goals for and goals against columns tell a story really, and it’s the latter that we need to improve on. I think it’s a bit of a mess, and it might well cost us this season IMO. |
Cook was happy to lose Toto in the summer too, tried to shift Donacien and would have got shot of Woolf had he not been told by club we need to keep one academy player for the rules.
Such a shame we didn’t land Bradley, but with the quality of business this summer to have Donacien, Nsiala and Penney as 3 members of your starting back 4 does indicate things haven’t gone to plan for whatever reason.
Edmundson looks an upgrade, Donacien been playing well and Toto always decent enough in the muck and bullets games. With the success of JD I wonder if Cook would have gone for something similar on the left if recruiting again, ie not just a flyer like Coulson and Penney seem to be - I imagine January will see a bit of movement |  |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:33 - Nov 7 with 834 views | jayessess |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:22 - Nov 7 by pointofblue |
I think I’d prefer to see another centre back brought in, letting Woolfenden go so he can get playing time. Mind you, the amount of effort it took to just find and sign Burgess… |
I think people go a bit OTT on the individual quality of centre backs. The flawless defender who never makes a mistake doesn't exist and if they do exist they certainly aren't turning out for Ipswich in L1.
It's all about how they function as a unit. There's been various wistful glances at James Wilson this season but he was also part of some absolutely wretched defensive performances at Ipswich. You see quite limited defenders suddenly look like world-beaters in a decent unit.
I think we could build a good, consistent defensive unit around any 2 of the 4 and it'll be by no means easy to improve of them as individuals in the transfer market. | |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:50 - Nov 7 with 804 views | Wickets |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:21 - Nov 7 by jayessess |
Don't see how the first against Cambridge is any more or less a "forced error" than the goal yesterday. Burgess is too eager to win the ball, mis-judges the flight, gets under it, ends up allowing Ironside to collect the ball to feet with a 10 yard start on him. |
Its straightforward really Toto yesterday can just head the ball away but for some reason he decides to let it bounce and is then always under pressure of his own makeing . Watch the BBC highlights if you have not done so already . [Post edited 7 Nov 2021 13:54]
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 14:04 - Nov 7 with 785 views | jayessess |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:50 - Nov 7 by Wickets |
Its straightforward really Toto yesterday can just head the ball away but for some reason he decides to let it bounce and is then always under pressure of his own makeing . Watch the BBC highlights if you have not done so already . [Post edited 7 Nov 2021 13:54]
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I've seen the highlights of both. I've still no idea why you'd think Burgess' a lesser error, other than confirmation bias (ie. you had a settled opinion on both players prior to the incident).
Both players mis-judge the flight of the ball, both get under the ball, both get themselves in trouble as a result. If anything Burgess' ball (high, slow, straight, landing in front of his starting position) is easier to deal with than Nsiala's (flatter, faster, going over his head). | |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 14:21 - Nov 7 with 764 views | pennblue |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 14:04 - Nov 7 by jayessess |
I've seen the highlights of both. I've still no idea why you'd think Burgess' a lesser error, other than confirmation bias (ie. you had a settled opinion on both players prior to the incident).
Both players mis-judge the flight of the ball, both get under the ball, both get themselves in trouble as a result. If anything Burgess' ball (high, slow, straight, landing in front of his starting position) is easier to deal with than Nsiala's (flatter, faster, going over his head). |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/fa-cup/video
If you analyse all three of the Oldham attacks in the highlights, you could pick up
poor positioning from George for the first cross, 2nd one Burgess should have bee on that man, and 3rd one was obviously Toto.
The bottom line is, we are just not solid enough at the back, we want our defenders to be 1st to those balls.
Who is the defensive coach? Do we still not have one? | |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 14:50 - Nov 7 with 746 views | Vic |
Give over you big f@nny. He’s a 3rd div player, of course he’ll make mistakes. They all will. |  |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 15:16 - Nov 7 with 718 views | andytown |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 10:00 - Nov 7 by clive_baker |
The OP has made an honest observation about a player who made a very costly mistake yesterday, as any of us do about any player. Your response is to imply there’s a racial bias and putting stereotypical comments like ‘clumsy no brains just an athlete‘ into his mouth, none of which were used at any point during the OP.
That’s wrong. |
Not sure he did make a mistake yesterday; only watched the brief highlights, but looked to me that the Oldham guy was holding Toto. The Town defender next to them appealed and nothing given. If their pen was a foul, then so was the challenge on Toto I would say. So no mistake yesterday. | | | |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 15:27 - Nov 7 with 701 views | DJR |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 14:21 - Nov 7 by pennblue |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/fa-cup/video
If you analyse all three of the Oldham attacks in the highlights, you could pick up
poor positioning from George for the first cross, 2nd one Burgess should have bee on that man, and 3rd one was obviously Toto.
The bottom line is, we are just not solid enough at the back, we want our defenders to be 1st to those balls.
Who is the defensive coach? Do we still not have one? |
I think that's right. We also have a tendency to lose concentration and take our eye off the man. And if you look at the goal, Toto in the end holds up his man, but Edmunson doesn't close down the goalscorer, and there is not a midfielder in sight with Evans ambling back. All in all, just a bit too casual. |  | | |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 15:42 - Nov 7 with 674 views | ArnieM |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 15:27 - Nov 7 by DJR |
I think that's right. We also have a tendency to lose concentration and take our eye off the man. And if you look at the goal, Toto in the end holds up his man, but Edmunson doesn't close down the goalscorer, and there is not a midfielder in sight with Evans ambling back. All in all, just a bit too casual. |
It’s about having an ability to read the game . We haven’t had “ thinking “ defenders for a long while …. And that quality costs money and whilst we’ve been able to attract thinking attackers under the new regime, the acquisition of similar quality defenders is lagging behind atm . But I feel we will recruit more in January . |  |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 16:51 - Nov 7 with 633 views | Mullet |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:23 - Nov 7 by clive_baker |
I mean I think most people are balanced enough to say it how it is. It’s also possible to have an opinion on a footballer without it being impacted by a racial prejudice as was insinuated of the OP, with no basis.
I think defensively generally Cook hasn’t addressed the area particularly well. He’s signed, presumably, a first choice keeper in Hladky who he quickly replaced. He signed 2 left backs and I’m still not sure who he prefers, he’s signed a CB in Burgess who he swiftly dropped, he’s bombed Woolfenden out which I would have to say I do agree with, he’s been poor and has more errors in him than Toto. Right back is a bit of a mess, again I don’t think he knows his preferred choice. It’s all very well having depth but it’s also an area where we need partnerships. The goals for and goals against columns tell a story really, and it’s the latter that we need to improve on. I think it’s a bit of a mess, and it might well cost us this season IMO. |
I've never been convinced Hladky was destined to be first choice. I assumed it was Walton in a similar vein to Celina etc. We went with the best deal we could get each time.
Presumably they couldn't offload Holy despite trying, with so many others. |  |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 17:08 - Nov 7 with 606 views | Wickets |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 15:27 - Nov 7 by DJR |
I think that's right. We also have a tendency to lose concentration and take our eye off the man. And if you look at the goal, Toto in the end holds up his man, but Edmunson doesn't close down the goalscorer, and there is not a midfielder in sight with Evans ambling back. All in all, just a bit too casual. |
I can see what you are saying but the first mistake is Toto's i'm sorry to say as he can just go and clear with a free header the Oldham attacker only becomes interested when he allows the ball to bounce . Big pity for me as i was trying to convince myself these wobbly moments were behind him . | | | |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 17:42 - Nov 7 with 572 views | Keaneish |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 08:41 - Nov 7 by Mullet |
I don’t think it’s fair to label someone racist because of this. He often posts the equivalent of miskicks and drops howlers, it could just be real recognising real.
Likewise, Toto has a back catalogue of mistakes, digging him out rather than a Cook signing like Burgess is probably another attempt to shift the focus off Cook and the collective. Despite no one seeming to be that bothered about yesterday.
I’d say that’s more typical Twtd these days than the old burning £50 notes route we still see trod on here once in a blue moon. [Post edited 7 Nov 2021 9:06]
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“Calling out Toto’s mistakes is an attempt to shift focus off Cook and the collective”???
What a try hard and complete nonsense. Can anyone else on here explain how this is anywhere near related? One of the more non-sensical parallels on here of late. |  |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 18:30 - Nov 7 with 530 views | Keaneish |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:31 - Nov 7 by itfcjoe |
Cook was happy to lose Toto in the summer too, tried to shift Donacien and would have got shot of Woolf had he not been told by club we need to keep one academy player for the rules.
Such a shame we didn’t land Bradley, but with the quality of business this summer to have Donacien, Nsiala and Penney as 3 members of your starting back 4 does indicate things haven’t gone to plan for whatever reason.
Edmundson looks an upgrade, Donacien been playing well and Toto always decent enough in the muck and bullets games. With the success of JD I wonder if Cook would have gone for something similar on the left if recruiting again, ie not just a flyer like Coulson and Penney seem to be - I imagine January will see a bit of movement |
I thought Cook said he would keep players he felt he could work with and develop, Wolfenden being one. El Miz qualifies as academy too.
I don’t recall him trying to offload Donacien or Toto. I highly expected him to but don’t remember any reported links. Got any inside info on what was on the table? | |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 19:38 - Nov 7 with 496 views | jaykay |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 13:31 - Nov 7 by itfcjoe |
Cook was happy to lose Toto in the summer too, tried to shift Donacien and would have got shot of Woolf had he not been told by club we need to keep one academy player for the rules.
Such a shame we didn’t land Bradley, but with the quality of business this summer to have Donacien, Nsiala and Penney as 3 members of your starting back 4 does indicate things haven’t gone to plan for whatever reason.
Edmundson looks an upgrade, Donacien been playing well and Toto always decent enough in the muck and bullets games. With the success of JD I wonder if Cook would have gone for something similar on the left if recruiting again, ie not just a flyer like Coulson and Penney seem to be - I imagine January will see a bit of movement |
if cook was happy to lose toto and donacien in the summer as you say , it goes to show cook will give players a chance if they show the right attitude |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 19:57 - Nov 7 with 474 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| I think we to take into account it was a cup game, but can we afford Toto in.. on 19:38 - Nov 7 by jaykay |
if cook was happy to lose toto and donacien in the summer as you say , it goes to show cook will give players a chance if they show the right attitude |
Your post deserves record amount of upvotes.
Well, well said. | | | |
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