| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... 11:50 - Dec 6 with 4024 views | itfcjoe |
...Manning has managed 24 at MK Dons |  |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:26 - Dec 6 with 1526 views | gordon |
Think Ashton, the Americans and Cook tied their hands behind their back with the level of investment in the summer - once you're bringing in players on high wages on 1-year loan deals like Celina, Walton, Bonne, you pretty much have no choice but to deliver promotion, and that seems to have put loads of pressure on everyone at the club that we aren't really dealing with. |  | | |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:27 - Dec 6 with 1515 views | NthQldITFC |
Did Manning work with Bryan Klug before, do we know? Would highly-rated Klug be the man to set the playing ethos up behind the scenes, and Manning to implement it as head coach? |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:29 - Dec 6 with 1495 views | tractorboy1978 |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:25 - Dec 6 by portmanking |
Yes, but roll the dice for a young upstart that would likely need 18 months to fully impose himself on the club/squad doesn't really align with the view of many that said it's this year or bust.
Unless, of course, people now believe it DOES need a long-term perspective to build sustainable success? |
Manning went into MK Dons and has got them winning straight away - he has a 50% win rate. With our squad it shouldn't be difficult to come in and get it going quickly. As mentioned above though, we need a win rate of 55-60% odd just to make the top 6 from here, so a lot to do! [Post edited 6 Dec 2021 12:33]
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:34 - Dec 6 with 1470 views | portmanking |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:29 - Dec 6 by tractorboy1978 |
Manning went into MK Dons and has got them winning straight away - he has a 50% win rate. With our squad it shouldn't be difficult to come in and get it going quickly. As mentioned above though, we need a win rate of 55-60% odd just to make the top 6 from here, so a lot to do! [Post edited 6 Dec 2021 12:33]
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But isn't the general feeling that Manning has merely continued with the same formula/approach deployed by former boss Russell Martin? Meaning much less upheaval than defining a new system/way of playing required with this Town squad?
I'd be happy for him to do so, but there would HAVE to be an expectation that he'd need a couple of seasons for things to really come to fruition, surely? | | | |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:35 - Dec 6 with 1467 views | jayessess |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:29 - Dec 6 by tractorboy1978 |
Manning went into MK Dons and has got them winning straight away - he has a 50% win rate. With our squad it shouldn't be difficult to come in and get it going quickly. As mentioned above though, we need a win rate of 55-60% odd just to make the top 6 from here, so a lot to do! [Post edited 6 Dec 2021 12:33]
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There is this weird combo going on of "we shouldn't have sacked Cook, he was building something" combined with "this team is going to be so difficult to turn round". They can't both be true! |  |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:37 - Dec 6 with 1452 views | Herbivore |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:25 - Dec 6 by portmanking |
Yes, but roll the dice for a young upstart that would likely need 18 months to fully impose himself on the club/squad doesn't really align with the view of many that said it's this year or bust.
Unless, of course, people now believe it DOES need a long-term perspective to build sustainable success? |
How many months has it taken Manning to get MK Dons challenging in the top 6? Asking for a friend. |  |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:39 - Dec 6 with 1442 views | portmanking |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:37 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
How many months has it taken Manning to get MK Dons challenging in the top 6? Asking for a friend. |
See my previous post. General feeling is that he's merely carried on the good work of Russell Martin re. system/style.
If he's got his own blueprint it would surely take longer to implement here?
What I'm trying to say, is to opt for a young 35-year-old with huge potential and expect him to be an overnight success is outlandish. | | | |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:41 - Dec 6 with 1435 views | Herbivore |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:35 - Dec 6 by jayessess |
There is this weird combo going on of "we shouldn't have sacked Cook, he was building something" combined with "this team is going to be so difficult to turn round". They can't both be true! |
There's a similar thing that was going on when talking about what Cook inherited. On the one hand he walked into an absolute mess with a squad of no hopers that couldn't be turned around, on the other hand he inherited a side that was in 7th place despite being managed by a guy who had been dialling it in for the past year at least. | |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:41 - Dec 6 with 1435 views | jayessess |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:39 - Dec 6 by portmanking |
See my previous post. General feeling is that he's merely carried on the good work of Russell Martin re. system/style.
If he's got his own blueprint it would surely take longer to implement here?
What I'm trying to say, is to opt for a young 35-year-old with huge potential and expect him to be an overnight success is outlandish. |
Would Cook not have left a similar blueprint? Russell Martin's MK Dons only finished 13th last season after all. | |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:43 - Dec 6 with 1434 views | theinbetweener |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 11:59 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
I don't get why we're so edgy about going for someone inexperienced but with a lot of potential. It's not like appointing experienced managers has been a hugely successful strategy for us. Take a punt on a gifted coach, let them make a name for themselves here. |
This. |  | | |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:46 - Dec 6 with 1428 views | NthQldITFC |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:39 - Dec 6 by portmanking |
See my previous post. General feeling is that he's merely carried on the good work of Russell Martin re. system/style.
If he's got his own blueprint it would surely take longer to implement here?
What I'm trying to say, is to opt for a young 35-year-old with huge potential and expect him to be an overnight success is outlandish. |
I might agree with you if he had mediocre material to work with, but he has got one of the best, if not the best set of individuals in the division. If he can bring cohesion and confidence and get them playing at 80-90% consistently, that will probably be good enough. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:47 - Dec 6 with 1419 views | portmanking |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:46 - Dec 6 by NthQldITFC |
I might agree with you if he had mediocre material to work with, but he has got one of the best, if not the best set of individuals in the division. If he can bring cohesion and confidence and get them playing at 80-90% consistently, that will probably be good enough. |
Possibly so, and we can only hope for that if this scenario transpires! | | | |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:48 - Dec 6 with 1419 views | Herbivore |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:39 - Dec 6 by portmanking |
See my previous post. General feeling is that he's merely carried on the good work of Russell Martin re. system/style.
If he's got his own blueprint it would surely take longer to implement here?
What I'm trying to say, is to opt for a young 35-year-old with huge potential and expect him to be an overnight success is outlandish. |
I'm not sure it's as straightforward as you suggest to come into a club and achieve that kind of success even with keeping a similar style of play to the previous manager. All managers will bring their own ideas and ways of doing things, it's not like he'll be a carbon copy of Martin. And they had a decent bit of squad turnover in the summer, including losing their best player to us. He's done a very impressive job there.
I also don't think anyone is expecting him to be an overnight success. Cook did such a poor job that this season is close to being a write off as it is. If a new manager can have a big impact and take us into the top 6 that would be a bonus at this point. | |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 13:18 - Dec 6 with 1361 views | stonojnr |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 11:54 - Dec 6 by benrhyddingblue |
He also had 120+ games in charge of Ayr United before Colchester! |
and was considered a target for us even before he joined Col U, I think thats what ticked them off as much as for the talks without their permission, when the club finally did make that move because we could have signed him in June before Colchester did and no-one would been shocked by it. | | | |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 13:30 - Dec 6 with 1340 views | Vaughan8 |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:03 - Dec 6 by itfcjoe |
At some point we need to take a chance on a manager, and trust the board to identify someone with potential than just looking at past records |
Nah. Personally I think we kinda did that with Hurst. How long would he seriously get? If he's a failure its a year or 2 down the pan when some people (including yourself) want promotion this year.
The last 2 managers:-
Lambert - had a rubbish record since Norwich and came without his assistant.
Cook - a better record but came without his assistant.
We need a proven manager, with his prefered backroom staff | | | |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 13:33 - Dec 6 with 1330 views | BonneNIL |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 11:59 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
I don't get why we're so edgy about going for someone inexperienced but with a lot of potential. It's not like appointing experienced managers has been a hugely successful strategy for us. Take a punt on a gifted coach, let them make a name for themselves here. |
Paul Hurst would suggest that we'd be better off with some experience over the young and exciting approach! Nothing against Manning but he inherited a good setup at MK Dons and we are a bit of a mess right now! |  |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 13:34 - Dec 6 with 1327 views | Herbivore |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 13:30 - Dec 6 by Vaughan8 |
Nah. Personally I think we kinda did that with Hurst. How long would he seriously get? If he's a failure its a year or 2 down the pan when some people (including yourself) want promotion this year.
The last 2 managers:-
Lambert - had a rubbish record since Norwich and came without his assistant.
Cook - a better record but came without his assistant.
We need a proven manager, with his prefered backroom staff |
Hurst had managed over 500 games, he wasn't a rookie. The tried and tested manager route has been a disaster for us, I don't know why we're so wedded to trying that approach again. We've turned into a managerial graveyard, I'd rather we now try to be a springboard for a manager with potential to grow their reputation. | |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 13:36 - Dec 6 with 1312 views | Swansea_Blue |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 11:54 - Dec 6 by benrhyddingblue |
He also had 120+ games in charge of Ayr United before Colchester! |
Hmm, that sounds a bit foreign to me so probably doesn't count  |  |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 13:37 - Dec 6 with 1306 views | itfcjoe |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:48 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
I'm not sure it's as straightforward as you suggest to come into a club and achieve that kind of success even with keeping a similar style of play to the previous manager. All managers will bring their own ideas and ways of doing things, it's not like he'll be a carbon copy of Martin. And they had a decent bit of squad turnover in the summer, including losing their best player to us. He's done a very impressive job there.
I also don't think anyone is expecting him to be an overnight success. Cook did such a poor job that this season is close to being a write off as it is. If a new manager can have a big impact and take us into the top 6 that would be a bonus at this point. |
Martin had them as a possession for the sake of possession side, and Manning has turned them into the highest scorers in the league - sure he built on RMs good work but it is a different style compared to the 900 passes a game they were doing previously. | |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 13:40 - Dec 6 with 1297 views | Herbivore |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 13:37 - Dec 6 by itfcjoe |
Martin had them as a possession for the sake of possession side, and Manning has turned them into the highest scorers in the league - sure he built on RMs good work but it is a different style compared to the 900 passes a game they were doing previously. |
It's made all the more impressive when you factor in that he got the job a week into the season so didn't even get a preseason to impart his ideas. You don't do that if you haven't got something about you. | |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 14:37 - Dec 6 with 1245 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:15 - Dec 6 by tractorboy1978 |
To be honest, we aren't many results off the season being all but done and dusted are we? If McGreal doesn't get a win in one of the next two we are going to find ourselves 10+ points off the top 6, teams with a game in hand and needing 15/16 wins from 24 games just to sneak into the play offs. That's an incredible ask for any new manager. |
Absolutely, which is why I think we'd have been better off sticking with Cook. With all the upheaval a new manager brings, new tactics etc to get drilled into the players, it seems to me we either have Jesus lined up or we've shot ourselves in the foot. This was my worry before Cook was sacked, now everyone's been calling for it, what are we left with? Like you say, the new guy will need auto promotion form from day one out of players he's never met, worked with or chose! |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 14:49 - Dec 6 with 1231 views | tractorboy1978 |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 14:37 - Dec 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Absolutely, which is why I think we'd have been better off sticking with Cook. With all the upheaval a new manager brings, new tactics etc to get drilled into the players, it seems to me we either have Jesus lined up or we've shot ourselves in the foot. This was my worry before Cook was sacked, now everyone's been calling for it, what are we left with? Like you say, the new guy will need auto promotion form from day one out of players he's never met, worked with or chose! |
I think where we differ is that I was struggling to see Cook turning it around. Since Wycombe (which should have been and I thought was a turning point) it's been really dire. We've got one struggled win in 5 cup games against 3 bottom 8 L2 sides + an U21 side and one struggled win in 4 league games - against the team rock bottom of the league.
Hopefully we get some sort of bounce over the next couple of games and it kickstarts our season. Whilst McGreal wouldn't be anyone's first choice, as interim managers go he's good and someone with managerial experience in competitive first team games. His in game management cannot be any worse than Cook's was here. [Post edited 6 Dec 2021 14:50]
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 14:55 - Dec 6 with 1221 views | jayessess |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:25 - Dec 6 by portmanking |
Yes, but roll the dice for a young upstart that would likely need 18 months to fully impose himself on the club/squad doesn't really align with the view of many that said it's this year or bust.
Unless, of course, people now believe it DOES need a long-term perspective to build sustainable success? |
Both?
I don't know why so many got it into their heads that short-term failure is the harbinger of long-term success. If I'd genuinely believed that Cook just needed time to make us the best team in the league, I wouldn't have wanted him out. But, he came in, decided he couldn't do anything to improve the first 25 players he encountered and got rid of them. Then got another 19 players and by the end was already talking about their inadequacies too. It simply wasn't plausible in the end that we were on some long-term track to success.
Good coaches come in and improve players through coaching, advice, motivation. Good tacticians identify problems with the match-day setup and adjust accordingly. They make modest improvements to what is available to them. Well-run clubs (not just the manager) map out a plan to improve the players available to the first team coach over time. We should be looking for all those things in our new appointment. Manning's brief stint at MK Dons seems to fit the first 2, time will tell on the 3rd. | |
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| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 14:55 - Dec 6 with 1220 views | Grumpy_Old_Man |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 12:22 - Dec 6 by Herbivore |
No idea. I like the sound of Manning and his coaching team and they have the added bonus of Town connections. I think it needs to be a coach with some coaching pedigree this time, we've spent years appointing old school managers with promotions on their CV and our hit rate is one in six not being hopeless. Go with someone up and coming who will make their name here, not just see us as another job. |
Manning's number 2 is Chris Hogg (Burley's son-in-law) who was well respected at ITFC when coaching the U23's with Gerard Nash. Comments at the time suggested Nash/Hogg would have been a future first team management team. | | | |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 15:10 - Dec 6 with 1212 views | Herbivore |
| George Burley had managed 20 games at Col U before he jumped ship to us... on 14:55 - Dec 6 by Grumpy_Old_Man |
Manning's number 2 is Chris Hogg (Burley's son-in-law) who was well respected at ITFC when coaching the U23's with Gerard Nash. Comments at the time suggested Nash/Hogg would have been a future first team management team. |
Yes, that's right. I remember Hogg being well thought of here so would be happy to see him back with Manning if that's the route we go down. Plus our last good right back would be coming with them too. | |
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