| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... 09:08 - Jan 19 with 7530 views | BlueBadger |
...to acknowledge the achievements of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.
1. Managing to be the most embarrassing PM the country has ever seen. Yo might not think this is an achievement, but remember that one of his predecessors shagged a dead pig. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 9:22]
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:18 - Jan 19 with 1120 views | fab_lover |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 12:39 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
Corbyn handed the Tories an 80 seat majority, so I do think he deserves some blame in all this. And because he was a poor leader who was toxic to the public, much of the public has been turned off social democracy for the foreseeable, which is a real shame. He scorched the earth around him in the end, other than with his most devout followers, who now seem intent on opposing anything other than Corbynite politics.
I'd like us to veer very far to the left as a country but it's not going to happen, I've accepted that most of the public don't share my politics. In the short term the priority has to be getting this abysmal government out of power and only Labour can do that. If you really cared about real people and their real problems you'd be able to see that. |
The reason Corbyn was toxic to the public is that the media had - very successfully - branded him as a sympathiser to terrorists.
His actual policies polled well with the electorate.
The one thing I would say about him is that he was more "normal" than many politicians in that he had interests outside politics, i.e. gardening and cooking.
"Bad" leaders almost universally have no other interests (Thatcher, "I paint wooden buses" Johnson etc).
"Good" politicians who seem like you could have a pint with them in the pub (Major / Ken Clarke / Corbyn) at least cultivate interests outside their job.
And before anyone says "Donald Trump always played golf, so he must be OK" the guy was a legendary cheat at the game - so that doesn't count ! |  | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 13:21 - Jan 19 with 1105 views | lowhouseblue |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 13:03 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
Then you haven’t been paying attention.
It’s about having the balls and integrity to address the real issues and not play politics as a default. Identifying the right solutions demands that you identify the right problems first.
Tell me how the past few decades of British politics and resulting government haven’t utterly failed with that.
Instead our politics has been fueled by dissatisfaction and disillusionment that these underlying issues have been left unexplored let alone resolved. |
your 'playing politics' covers everything involved in getting elected. the rest is you just thinking you have the right answers and not knowing why the electors don't agree. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 13:37 - Jan 19 with 1079 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 13:14 - Jan 19 by lowhouseblue |
some of the individual policies, yes. the complete programme, no. |
Yes, when packaged as “communism” or “nationalising sausages” they surprising didn’t go down well.
Or as totally unaffordable and “who’s going to pay for it? The magic money tree?!” A misunderstanding of how a sovereign economy works and immediately dispelled as an issue by politicians and the media when the UK spent far, far more on Covid measures or in dealing with a hardBrexit over the long term.
Playing politics = bad politics in the long run and even worse policies. The only winners are the hundreds of politicians and journalists looking after their own career and financial interests, and the interests of their donors/lobbyists/owners. And fanboys like yourself who fetishize that behaviour. |  |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:41 - Jan 19 with 1076 views | Herbivore |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:13 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
2017 was a positive step. That’s why opponents lied, cheated and stole even more after that.
Pity so many people just nodded along to that and gave us Johnson and a hard Brexit. I’m sure that’s why they still need to blame Corbyn. |
He lost the GE in 2017 after we'd had 7 years of Tory austerity, a divisive referendum, and another terrible Tory PM in Theresa May. The red wall seats narrowed significantly in 2017, paving the way for what followed in 2019. A competent leader would have stood aside at that point.
And a hard Brexit was already in motion by that point anyway, and we ended up with Johnson getting a stonking majority in no small part because of Corbyn's hubris. All of this took place with Corbyn as leader, ffs. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 13:43]
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:46 - Jan 19 with 1052 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:41 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
He lost the GE in 2017 after we'd had 7 years of Tory austerity, a divisive referendum, and another terrible Tory PM in Theresa May. The red wall seats narrowed significantly in 2017, paving the way for what followed in 2019. A competent leader would have stood aside at that point.
And a hard Brexit was already in motion by that point anyway, and we ended up with Johnson getting a stonking majority in no small part because of Corbyn's hubris. All of this took place with Corbyn as leader, ffs. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 13:43]
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Sorry, I think your framing is wrong. At best incomplete and editorialized.
But I guess we’re both stuck with how we see the context. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:51 - Jan 19 with 1034 views | solomon |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:18 - Jan 19 by fab_lover |
The reason Corbyn was toxic to the public is that the media had - very successfully - branded him as a sympathiser to terrorists.
His actual policies polled well with the electorate.
The one thing I would say about him is that he was more "normal" than many politicians in that he had interests outside politics, i.e. gardening and cooking.
"Bad" leaders almost universally have no other interests (Thatcher, "I paint wooden buses" Johnson etc).
"Good" politicians who seem like you could have a pint with them in the pub (Major / Ken Clarke / Corbyn) at least cultivate interests outside their job.
And before anyone says "Donald Trump always played golf, so he must be OK" the guy was a legendary cheat at the game - so that doesn't count ! |
To be fair what did for him was the company he kept. Although not an antisemite himself he, out some stupid sense of loyalty, seemed to align himself with others who clearly were. |  | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:55 - Jan 19 with 1025 views | Herbivore |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:46 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
Sorry, I think your framing is wrong. At best incomplete and editorialized.
But I guess we’re both stuck with how we see the context. |
Most of what I've said is accurate, you just don't want to engage with it. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:59 - Jan 19 with 1007 views | lowhouseblue |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:51 - Jan 19 by solomon |
To be fair what did for him was the company he kept. Although not an antisemite himself he, out some stupid sense of loyalty, seemed to align himself with others who clearly were. |
but that company wasn't random bad luck. it reflected where he had spent the past 30 years of his career - in the gutter of far left politics with stop the war and occupy and the swp. that bit of politics is awash with conspiracy nutters - anti-west, anti-nato, and anti-semites. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:01 - Jan 19 with 999 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:55 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
Most of what I've said is accurate, you just don't want to engage with it. |
Yeah and I’m basically thinking the same about you.
Facts are facts but I can’t make you see the context. Only you can do that. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:02 - Jan 19 with 998 views | EdwardStone |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:59 - Jan 19 by lowhouseblue |
but that company wasn't random bad luck. it reflected where he had spent the past 30 years of his career - in the gutter of far left politics with stop the war and occupy and the swp. that bit of politics is awash with conspiracy nutters - anti-west, anti-nato, and anti-semites. |
"You can tell a man who loses by the company he choses" ? |  | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:06 - Jan 19 with 986 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:59 - Jan 19 by lowhouseblue |
but that company wasn't random bad luck. it reflected where he had spent the past 30 years of his career - in the gutter of far left politics with stop the war and occupy and the swp. that bit of politics is awash with conspiracy nutters - anti-west, anti-nato, and anti-semites. |
Dear oh dear.
The Blairite view of the world is really pretty bleak. And never more so than when it casts its cold, reptilian eye over progressive politics. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 14:07 - Jan 19 with 984 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:23 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
His leadership was undermined on an almost daily basis from within the PLP and Labour HQ.
This is just part of what’s happening to Boris now and we see the result.
I don’t think Corbyn is a good leader in the administrative sense but more of a campaigner. And when he could do that and lead on the real issues affecting the UK as in the 2017 GE he did much better, bringing millions of voters back to Labour and threatening the establishment. Part of the reason why after that his opponents inside and outside the Labour Party had to stop him from doing that and he was then tied up in manufactured situations like Brexit, the antisemitism accusations and Change UK silliness.
It worked very well. Politically at least. But as we see with the result of Boris, his cabinet and probably his likely replacement too, doesn’t work so well for a so-called developed country in 2022. |
One of the politicians of the past 30 years who I most admire is Robin Cook. He resigned as Foreign Secretary (and Claire Short resigned as International Development Secretary) because he did not believe there was a sufficient case for war in Iraq.
He also once said, when asked if he had ambitions to be Prime Minister, that he had long since put them aside, because he was ginger and had a beard. He understood that sometimes your image just isn't the right fit to be the figure head.
If Corbyn had realised after his first General Election defeat that he would never be the right fit for enough of the public then he could have taken on an important role as a power-broker, senior figure, keeper of the flame and, most importantly, motivator of party members on behalf of his anointed successor.
But he didn't, because he lacked the political nous to understand that having 30% of the people loving you is worth less than having 40% of the country thinking that you are acceptable, under the corrupt First Past the Post system. |  | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:10 - Jan 19 with 974 views | lowhouseblue |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:06 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
Dear oh dear.
The Blairite view of the world is really pretty bleak. And never more so than when it casts its cold, reptilian eye over progressive politics. |
you think "stop the war, occupy and the swp" is progressive politics? ha ha ha ha ha. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:14 - Jan 19 with 959 views | solomon |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:59 - Jan 19 by lowhouseblue |
but that company wasn't random bad luck. it reflected where he had spent the past 30 years of his career - in the gutter of far left politics with stop the war and occupy and the swp. that bit of politics is awash with conspiracy nutters - anti-west, anti-nato, and anti-semites. |
Yes, that’s the point I’m making whilst trying to see things from DK’s view that JC wasn’t and isn’t an antisemite, but I do think he’s associated himself too closely with those whose views are unhelpful and damaging.
If you lay down with dogs you’ll catch fleas | | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 14:19 - Jan 19 with 948 views | EdwardStone |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 14:07 - Jan 19 by ArnoldMoorhen |
One of the politicians of the past 30 years who I most admire is Robin Cook. He resigned as Foreign Secretary (and Claire Short resigned as International Development Secretary) because he did not believe there was a sufficient case for war in Iraq.
He also once said, when asked if he had ambitions to be Prime Minister, that he had long since put them aside, because he was ginger and had a beard. He understood that sometimes your image just isn't the right fit to be the figure head.
If Corbyn had realised after his first General Election defeat that he would never be the right fit for enough of the public then he could have taken on an important role as a power-broker, senior figure, keeper of the flame and, most importantly, motivator of party members on behalf of his anointed successor.
But he didn't, because he lacked the political nous to understand that having 30% of the people loving you is worth less than having 40% of the country thinking that you are acceptable, under the corrupt First Past the Post system. |
More than just image Mr M....it is the ability to inspire and paint a compelling vision so that you could gather together support from multitudes of voters
I think almost all Party leaders have delusions of grandeur and a critical lack of self-awareness, unlike the late lamented Robin Cook
Cameron certainly did "I felt I would be rather good at it"...
May definitely did, the current incumbent does
And so did Corbyn. I wonder how he feels when he looks in the mirror? Does he feel cheated of his chance at power or does he finally realise that he was utterly unsuitable for the job and should never have been in a position to screw up a second General Election | | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:21 - Jan 19 with 948 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 12:25 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
Johnson, Brexit and any number of worsening issues in our society and economy have been decades in the making.
I think you’re living in a dream world if you think Corbyn created this. Or that a centre-right leader like Starmer would have averted it/will reverse this slide down and to the right.
To re-work your Titanic analogy, do you think we should be closing your eyes and listening to the violins or spotting the iceberg and avoiding it? Or do we expect the ship to be too big and strong to fail?
I think that laissez-faire attitude we’ve come to expect from society and our politicians is exactly why things are bad and getting worse for an increasing proportion of the population. Who certainly aren’t predominantly white, male, upper/middle class, home owners (or even millionaires and billionaires) like everyone who ultimately dictates our politics.
So we’re never going to agree on carrying on the same way but expecting a different result. |
To extend the Titanic analogy:
We are where we are now. The ship is headed for the iceberg. That iceberg is the slate of legislation that removes all the checks and balances in our "unwritten Constitution", kills the right to protest, politicises both the Police and Military, gerrymanders constituency boundaries, introduces voter suppression measures, ignores international law and binding Treaty obligations, attacks any institution that dares to speak out about abuses or corruption including Judges, the BBC, the RNLI and the National Trust, and ignores reports into electoral corruption written by, and "reforms" in revenge, the Electoral Commission.
The Ship is Parliamentary Democracy.
Now, given that the Captain is determined to sail the thing full pelt at the iceberg to sink it, are you going to back the one person who, under the present system, is in position to lead any kind of resistance and fight back which might see that disaster averted?
Or are you going to refuse to because you would only support the bloke who didn't get the job as Captain and who would have steered a different course? | | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:23 - Jan 19 with 946 views | fab_lover |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:51 - Jan 19 by solomon |
To be fair what did for him was the company he kept. Although not an antisemite himself he, out some stupid sense of loyalty, seemed to align himself with others who clearly were. |
Hmm. It's strange that the founder of Momentum and JC's best mate, Jon Lansman, is Jewish (and someone who condemned Ken Livingstone for his anti-Semitic statements).
Was there anti-Semitism in the Labour party ? Yes. Was it orchestrated or encouraged by Corbyn or even those close to him ? No (in my opinion).
There is a world of difference between between anti-Semitic and being anti-Zionist. However accusing someone of anti-Semitism is much more effective than accusing them of being critical of the way in which Israel behaves as a country. | | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 14:24 - Jan 19 with 945 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 14:07 - Jan 19 by ArnoldMoorhen |
One of the politicians of the past 30 years who I most admire is Robin Cook. He resigned as Foreign Secretary (and Claire Short resigned as International Development Secretary) because he did not believe there was a sufficient case for war in Iraq.
He also once said, when asked if he had ambitions to be Prime Minister, that he had long since put them aside, because he was ginger and had a beard. He understood that sometimes your image just isn't the right fit to be the figure head.
If Corbyn had realised after his first General Election defeat that he would never be the right fit for enough of the public then he could have taken on an important role as a power-broker, senior figure, keeper of the flame and, most importantly, motivator of party members on behalf of his anointed successor.
But he didn't, because he lacked the political nous to understand that having 30% of the people loving you is worth less than having 40% of the country thinking that you are acceptable, under the corrupt First Past the Post system. |
You might want to re-visit those figures. Labour got 40% of the vote in 2017 and doesn’t have to appeal to hardcore Tories and further right either.
What happened after that was a national scandal. Utter internal and external sabotage and manufactured crises designed to delegitimise and distract, by people whose interests were ultimately served better by Boris and the Tories being in power rather than someone like Corbyn who saw the wider interests of UK citizens as more important.
Amazing the number of people on here and elsewhere who nodded along to it and even amplified it but still want to be seen as defenders of democracy, equality and justice. Well, they’ve certainly got a Labour Party now in their own image – and the sort of Conservative party that results from that lip service. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:25 - Jan 19 with 939 views | CoachRob |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:59 - Jan 19 by lowhouseblue |
but that company wasn't random bad luck. it reflected where he had spent the past 30 years of his career - in the gutter of far left politics with stop the war and occupy and the swp. that bit of politics is awash with conspiracy nutters - anti-west, anti-nato, and anti-semites. |
With anti-science supporters such as yourself and Graham Stringer on the right, it hard to see any end in sight to the factionalism. |  | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:27 - Jan 19 with 923 views | Herbivore |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:01 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
Yeah and I’m basically thinking the same about you.
Facts are facts but I can’t make you see the context. Only you can do that. |
*your context | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:29 - Jan 19 with 920 views | noggin |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:59 - Jan 19 by lowhouseblue |
but that company wasn't random bad luck. it reflected where he had spent the past 30 years of his career - in the gutter of far left politics with stop the war and occupy and the swp. that bit of politics is awash with conspiracy nutters - anti-west, anti-nato, and anti-semites. |
Like wanting to stop war is a bad thing. |  |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 14:29 - Jan 19 with 919 views | jaykay |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 10:27 - Jan 19 by hype313 |
I'd argue that Corbyn as the alternative helped him towards that majority given the nations thoughts on him. |
to think people were afraid of a man who had never had a 10 % of the scandals this clown had . that goes to prove the press and social media with smears can get a man vilified has the devil and with a orchestrated effort get a liar and cheat classed as a saint. just a good egg really and great bloke to have a drink with.
its amazing the people who created this monster , now seem shocked that this has happened and want to seen as champions of fair play by getting him removed , but did their upmost to get him elected
but hey ho but corbyn |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:30 - Jan 19 with 914 views | solomon |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:23 - Jan 19 by fab_lover |
Hmm. It's strange that the founder of Momentum and JC's best mate, Jon Lansman, is Jewish (and someone who condemned Ken Livingstone for his anti-Semitic statements).
Was there anti-Semitism in the Labour party ? Yes. Was it orchestrated or encouraged by Corbyn or even those close to him ? No (in my opinion).
There is a world of difference between between anti-Semitic and being anti-Zionist. However accusing someone of anti-Semitism is much more effective than accusing them of being critical of the way in which Israel behaves as a country. |
Yes but he failed to deal with it, that was the problem. By failing to deal with it he made himself look sympathetic to it . | | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:30 - Jan 19 with 913 views | footers |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:59 - Jan 19 by lowhouseblue |
but that company wasn't random bad luck. it reflected where he had spent the past 30 years of his career - in the gutter of far left politics with stop the war and occupy and the swp. that bit of politics is awash with conspiracy nutters - anti-west, anti-nato, and anti-semites. |
'Far left'
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:33 - Jan 19 with 909 views | noggin |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 14:30 - Jan 19 by solomon |
Yes but he failed to deal with it, that was the problem. By failing to deal with it he made himself look sympathetic to it . |
But Johnson's blatant racism and homophobia was just bantz. | |
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