| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... 09:08 - Jan 19 with 7526 views | BlueBadger |
...to acknowledge the achievements of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.
1. Managing to be the most embarrassing PM the country has ever seen. Yo might not think this is an achievement, but remember that one of his predecessors shagged a dead pig. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 9:22]
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:11 - Jan 19 with 1275 views | EdwardStone |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 10:53 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
The perceptions of Corbyn were/are managed by the media, lied about by his opponents and lapped up by too many of the electorate.
In the same way that perceptions about Boris were/are managed by the media, lied about by his supporters and lapped up by too many of the electorate. We’re now seeing exactly what happens when those pretenses are dropped.
Unfortunately, too many people reinforced those perceptions out of self-interest and, if we’re being honest, through being fairly ignorant. |
But.... but
Leadership is a skill, it requires some very specific qualities....qualities that Corbyn did not have
Just being elected to lead your party does not gift you those qualities
There is more to being a Concert Pianist than owning a Grand Piano |  | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:23 - Jan 19 with 1251 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:11 - Jan 19 by EdwardStone |
But.... but
Leadership is a skill, it requires some very specific qualities....qualities that Corbyn did not have
Just being elected to lead your party does not gift you those qualities
There is more to being a Concert Pianist than owning a Grand Piano |
His leadership was undermined on an almost daily basis from within the PLP and Labour HQ.
This is just part of what’s happening to Boris now and we see the result.
I don’t think Corbyn is a good leader in the administrative sense but more of a campaigner. And when he could do that and lead on the real issues affecting the UK as in the 2017 GE he did much better, bringing millions of voters back to Labour and threatening the establishment. Part of the reason why after that his opponents inside and outside the Labour Party had to stop him from doing that and he was then tied up in manufactured situations like Brexit, the antisemitism accusations and Change UK silliness.
It worked very well. Politically at least. But as we see with the result of Boris, his cabinet and probably his likely replacement too, doesn’t work so well for a so-called developed country in 2022. |  |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:30 - Jan 19 with 1237 views | EdwardStone |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:23 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
His leadership was undermined on an almost daily basis from within the PLP and Labour HQ.
This is just part of what’s happening to Boris now and we see the result.
I don’t think Corbyn is a good leader in the administrative sense but more of a campaigner. And when he could do that and lead on the real issues affecting the UK as in the 2017 GE he did much better, bringing millions of voters back to Labour and threatening the establishment. Part of the reason why after that his opponents inside and outside the Labour Party had to stop him from doing that and he was then tied up in manufactured situations like Brexit, the antisemitism accusations and Change UK silliness.
It worked very well. Politically at least. But as we see with the result of Boris, his cabinet and probably his likely replacement too, doesn’t work so well for a so-called developed country in 2022. |
I get that his position was undermined from within and from without
But I believe he was not the right person to hold that position
I didn't feel that he had the right qualities to inspire, to reach out to those who were sceptical and to be inclusive
He just came across to me as tetchy and indecisive
These are not leadership qualities | | | |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:36 - Jan 19 with 1229 views | Herbivore |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:23 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
His leadership was undermined on an almost daily basis from within the PLP and Labour HQ.
This is just part of what’s happening to Boris now and we see the result.
I don’t think Corbyn is a good leader in the administrative sense but more of a campaigner. And when he could do that and lead on the real issues affecting the UK as in the 2017 GE he did much better, bringing millions of voters back to Labour and threatening the establishment. Part of the reason why after that his opponents inside and outside the Labour Party had to stop him from doing that and he was then tied up in manufactured situations like Brexit, the antisemitism accusations and Change UK silliness.
It worked very well. Politically at least. But as we see with the result of Boris, his cabinet and probably his likely replacement too, doesn’t work so well for a so-called developed country in 2022. |
You do know he lost the GE in 2017, right? Against Theresa May, who seemed utterly determined to undermine her own campaign at every turn. Corbyn's tenure as Labour leader was ultimately a complete disaster and has helped to contribute to this current sh!t show. |  |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:37 - Jan 19 with 1221 views | giant_stow |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:23 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
His leadership was undermined on an almost daily basis from within the PLP and Labour HQ.
This is just part of what’s happening to Boris now and we see the result.
I don’t think Corbyn is a good leader in the administrative sense but more of a campaigner. And when he could do that and lead on the real issues affecting the UK as in the 2017 GE he did much better, bringing millions of voters back to Labour and threatening the establishment. Part of the reason why after that his opponents inside and outside the Labour Party had to stop him from doing that and he was then tied up in manufactured situations like Brexit, the antisemitism accusations and Change UK silliness.
It worked very well. Politically at least. But as we see with the result of Boris, his cabinet and probably his likely replacement too, doesn’t work so well for a so-called developed country in 2022. |
I know you mock me for reading the Telegraph, but I genuinely think you should get yourself a subscription and have a read up on the thinking of people who need to be convinced for Labour to ever get back into power. They're never gonna buy into Corbyn or anyone like him - they'd sooner someone like Boris wreck the whole country than do that.
Putting Corbyn into the labour leadership role had a direct negative effect on the country I'm afraid. |  |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:37 - Jan 19 with 1221 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:36 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
You do know he lost the GE in 2017, right? Against Theresa May, who seemed utterly determined to undermine her own campaign at every turn. Corbyn's tenure as Labour leader was ultimately a complete disaster and has helped to contribute to this current sh!t show. |
I think you’re sadly wrong. But we’re at a dead end with that conversation. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:44 - Jan 19 with 1204 views | Herbivore |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:37 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
I think you’re sadly wrong. But we’re at a dead end with that conversation. |
On which bit? | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:46 - Jan 19 with 1203 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:37 - Jan 19 by giant_stow |
I know you mock me for reading the Telegraph, but I genuinely think you should get yourself a subscription and have a read up on the thinking of people who need to be convinced for Labour to ever get back into power. They're never gonna buy into Corbyn or anyone like him - they'd sooner someone like Boris wreck the whole country than do that.
Putting Corbyn into the labour leadership role had a direct negative effect on the country I'm afraid. |
He was voted in by a majority of Labour members. And his policies were popular with the electorate on their own merits.
How Corbyn was subsequently treated is a symptom of the failure in our democracy, party political system and political coverage. Failure that led to Brexit, is leading towards the possible breakup of the UK, led to Boris, Patel et al and a whole host of social and economic issues being swept under the carpet.
But more and more I’m coming round to the idea that we’re collectively getting what we deserve. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 11:57 - Jan 19 with 1183 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 11:44 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
On which bit? |
Pretty much all of it.
I think Corbyn did OK against literally all the odds. And I think he’s changed the debate irrevocably for many.
Was it enough? No. But this is what the UK has become over the last few decades and it’ll take more than a couple of years of almost single-handed opposition against the status quo. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 12:03 - Jan 19 with 1162 views | Herbivore |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 11:57 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
Pretty much all of it.
I think Corbyn did OK against literally all the odds. And I think he’s changed the debate irrevocably for many.
Was it enough? No. But this is what the UK has become over the last few decades and it’ll take more than a couple of years of almost single-handed opposition against the status quo. |
It's a fact that he lost the 2017 GE so not sure how you can disagree with that. And I'm sure you don't genuinely think May was a master campaigner either. I look at where we ended up and don't see how you can conclude that his time as Labour leader was anything other than a disaster. I'm curious why, other than liking his policies, anyone would conclude otherwise. And liking the policies of someone who has handed the Tories an 80 seat majority is rather like admiring the ceiling fresco in the ballroom of the Titanic. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 12:04]
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 12:06 - Jan 19 with 1149 views | GlasgowBlue |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 10:53 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
The perceptions of Corbyn were/are managed by the media, lied about by his opponents and lapped up by too many of the electorate.
In the same way that perceptions about Boris were/are managed by the media, lied about by his supporters and lapped up by too many of the electorate. We’re now seeing exactly what happens when those pretenses are dropped.
Unfortunately, too many people reinforced those perceptions out of self-interest and, if we’re being honest, through being fairly ignorant. |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 12:10 - Jan 19 with 1150 views | Swansea_Blue |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 10:53 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
The perceptions of Corbyn were/are managed by the media, lied about by his opponents and lapped up by too many of the electorate.
In the same way that perceptions about Boris were/are managed by the media, lied about by his supporters and lapped up by too many of the electorate. We’re now seeing exactly what happens when those pretenses are dropped.
Unfortunately, too many people reinforced those perceptions out of self-interest and, if we’re being honest, through being fairly ignorant. |
Some of the perceptions were managed, undoubtedly and to the detriment of the electorate. But let's not also forget his long history as a rebellious backbencher when the media weren't interested in him. The media can't be blamed for all of his oddities.
Media manipulation certainly is a problem though, no denying that. |  |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 12:25 - Jan 19 with 1135 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 12:03 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
It's a fact that he lost the 2017 GE so not sure how you can disagree with that. And I'm sure you don't genuinely think May was a master campaigner either. I look at where we ended up and don't see how you can conclude that his time as Labour leader was anything other than a disaster. I'm curious why, other than liking his policies, anyone would conclude otherwise. And liking the policies of someone who has handed the Tories an 80 seat majority is rather like admiring the ceiling fresco in the ballroom of the Titanic. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 12:04]
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Johnson, Brexit and any number of worsening issues in our society and economy have been decades in the making.
I think you’re living in a dream world if you think Corbyn created this. Or that a centre-right leader like Starmer would have averted it/will reverse this slide down and to the right.
To re-work your Titanic analogy, do you think we should be closing your eyes and listening to the violins or spotting the iceberg and avoiding it? Or do we expect the ship to be too big and strong to fail?
I think that laissez-faire attitude we’ve come to expect from society and our politicians is exactly why things are bad and getting worse for an increasing proportion of the population. Who certainly aren’t predominantly white, male, upper/middle class, home owners (or even millionaires and billionaires) like everyone who ultimately dictates our politics.
So we’re never going to agree on carrying on the same way but expecting a different result. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 12:28 - Jan 19 with 1116 views | Herbivore |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 12:10 - Jan 19 by Swansea_Blue |
Some of the perceptions were managed, undoubtedly and to the detriment of the electorate. But let's not also forget his long history as a rebellious backbencher when the media weren't interested in him. The media can't be blamed for all of his oddities.
Media manipulation certainly is a problem though, no denying that. |
This is one of the key points, for all that the media is terrible they have to have some sort of ammunition in the first place and with Corbyn there was a ton of ammunition. When the right wing press tried going for Starmer by having a pop at him buying a field so his mum could look at donkeys they ended up looking stupid. Similarly the attempted attacks on him for having a beer and a takeaway whilst at work in a constituency office haven't gained a lot of traction.
By contrast, when there's photos of you with shady people and Facebook posts where you've endorsed an anti-semitic mural then that does give the press some decent ammunition. It doesn't matter how much you scream "BUT THE POLICIES!!!" many of the public just aren't going to invest in someone with that amount of baggage. If Corbyn really cared about moving the country to the left he'd have stood aside after losing the 2017 GE and let someone else take the reins without all his baggage. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 12:39 - Jan 19 with 1098 views | Herbivore |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 12:25 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
Johnson, Brexit and any number of worsening issues in our society and economy have been decades in the making.
I think you’re living in a dream world if you think Corbyn created this. Or that a centre-right leader like Starmer would have averted it/will reverse this slide down and to the right.
To re-work your Titanic analogy, do you think we should be closing your eyes and listening to the violins or spotting the iceberg and avoiding it? Or do we expect the ship to be too big and strong to fail?
I think that laissez-faire attitude we’ve come to expect from society and our politicians is exactly why things are bad and getting worse for an increasing proportion of the population. Who certainly aren’t predominantly white, male, upper/middle class, home owners (or even millionaires and billionaires) like everyone who ultimately dictates our politics.
So we’re never going to agree on carrying on the same way but expecting a different result. |
Corbyn handed the Tories an 80 seat majority, so I do think he deserves some blame in all this. And because he was a poor leader who was toxic to the public, much of the public has been turned off social democracy for the foreseeable, which is a real shame. He scorched the earth around him in the end, other than with his most devout followers, who now seem intent on opposing anything other than Corbynite politics.
I'd like us to veer very far to the left as a country but it's not going to happen, I've accepted that most of the public don't share my politics. In the short term the priority has to be getting this abysmal government out of power and only Labour can do that. If you really cared about real people and their real problems you'd be able to see that. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 12:47 - Jan 19 with 1073 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 12:39 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
Corbyn handed the Tories an 80 seat majority, so I do think he deserves some blame in all this. And because he was a poor leader who was toxic to the public, much of the public has been turned off social democracy for the foreseeable, which is a real shame. He scorched the earth around him in the end, other than with his most devout followers, who now seem intent on opposing anything other than Corbynite politics.
I'd like us to veer very far to the left as a country but it's not going to happen, I've accepted that most of the public don't share my politics. In the short term the priority has to be getting this abysmal government out of power and only Labour can do that. If you really cared about real people and their real problems you'd be able to see that. |
Pfft. Never mind. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 12:47 - Jan 19 with 1072 views | lowhouseblue |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 12:28 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
This is one of the key points, for all that the media is terrible they have to have some sort of ammunition in the first place and with Corbyn there was a ton of ammunition. When the right wing press tried going for Starmer by having a pop at him buying a field so his mum could look at donkeys they ended up looking stupid. Similarly the attempted attacks on him for having a beer and a takeaway whilst at work in a constituency office haven't gained a lot of traction.
By contrast, when there's photos of you with shady people and Facebook posts where you've endorsed an anti-semitic mural then that does give the press some decent ammunition. It doesn't matter how much you scream "BUT THE POLICIES!!!" many of the public just aren't going to invest in someone with that amount of baggage. If Corbyn really cared about moving the country to the left he'd have stood aside after losing the 2017 GE and let someone else take the reins without all his baggage. |
much of the media is bad. but it's wrong to see the media as some exogenous force - it reflects as well as influences public opinion. the belief on the corbynite left that the media is oppressing the inherently radical instincts of the oppressed population is largely nonsense. blaming the media has become an excuse for the corbynite left not to engage with the electors, not to respond to their priorities and not to grapple with the sorts of compromises which are an inherent part of governing. the general view that "we have the right answer" and if the public don't agree it's because they've been lied to by the press is just a cop out. anyone who knew anything about corbyn prior to 2015 knew that he had spent 30 years doing exactly that. and however the media presented corbyn he utterly failed the public's sniff test - on so many things they didn't believe that he shared their values. people can blame the media or they can actually think about what you need to do to get elected. alas, dk is incapable of getting past the "we have the right answer" stage of political thinking. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 13:03 - Jan 19 with 1027 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 12:47 - Jan 19 by lowhouseblue |
much of the media is bad. but it's wrong to see the media as some exogenous force - it reflects as well as influences public opinion. the belief on the corbynite left that the media is oppressing the inherently radical instincts of the oppressed population is largely nonsense. blaming the media has become an excuse for the corbynite left not to engage with the electors, not to respond to their priorities and not to grapple with the sorts of compromises which are an inherent part of governing. the general view that "we have the right answer" and if the public don't agree it's because they've been lied to by the press is just a cop out. anyone who knew anything about corbyn prior to 2015 knew that he had spent 30 years doing exactly that. and however the media presented corbyn he utterly failed the public's sniff test - on so many things they didn't believe that he shared their values. people can blame the media or they can actually think about what you need to do to get elected. alas, dk is incapable of getting past the "we have the right answer" stage of political thinking. |
Then you haven’t been paying attention.
It’s about having the balls and integrity to address the real issues and not play politics as a default. Identifying the right solutions demands that you identify the right problems first.
Tell me how the past few decades of British politics and resulting government haven’t utterly failed with that.
Instead our politics has been fueled by dissatisfaction and disillusionment that these underlying issues have been left unexplored let alone resolved. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 13:04 - Jan 19 with 1027 views | noggin |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 12:47 - Jan 19 by lowhouseblue |
much of the media is bad. but it's wrong to see the media as some exogenous force - it reflects as well as influences public opinion. the belief on the corbynite left that the media is oppressing the inherently radical instincts of the oppressed population is largely nonsense. blaming the media has become an excuse for the corbynite left not to engage with the electors, not to respond to their priorities and not to grapple with the sorts of compromises which are an inherent part of governing. the general view that "we have the right answer" and if the public don't agree it's because they've been lied to by the press is just a cop out. anyone who knew anything about corbyn prior to 2015 knew that he had spent 30 years doing exactly that. and however the media presented corbyn he utterly failed the public's sniff test - on so many things they didn't believe that he shared their values. people can blame the media or they can actually think about what you need to do to get elected. alas, dk is incapable of getting past the "we have the right answer" stage of political thinking. |
Didn't research show that without naming JC or Labour, his policies were very popular? |  |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:05 - Jan 19 with 1027 views | Herbivore |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 12:47 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
Pfft. Never mind. |
If only Corbyn had been so quick to realise when he'd been defeated, we might have avoided the horror show of the 2019 GE. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:13 - Jan 19 with 1002 views | Darth_Koont |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time.. on 13:05 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
If only Corbyn had been so quick to realise when he'd been defeated, we might have avoided the horror show of the 2019 GE. |
2017 was a positive step. That’s why opponents lied, cheated and stole even more after that.
Pity so many people just nodded along to that and gave us Johnson and a hard Brexit. I’m sure that’s why they still need to blame Corbyn. | |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 13:14 - Jan 19 with 995 views | lowhouseblue |
| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 13:04 - Jan 19 by noggin |
Didn't research show that without naming JC or Labour, his policies were very popular? |
some of the individual policies, yes. the complete programme, no. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| As he's hopefully now on his way out, it's time... on 13:18 - Jan 19 with 987 views | J2BLUE |
Again, in the interests of facts, Cameron did NOT actually do that as the accuser has confirmed. |  |
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