| 5 wins out of 7 now.... 08:30 - Feb 7 with 6921 views | itfcjoe |
....and still an absolute country mile away from the play offs.
So frustrating just how far off it we were left to get, we are going to need something like 11 wins in our last 16 games with a couple of draws just to have a coin flip chance of making the top 6.
Must win tomorrow, must play better than Saturday.... |  |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 08:34 - Feb 7 with 4483 views | homer_123 |
We don't necessarily have to play better - it's a case of win any way we can.
As I said months ago, Cook should have gone earlier. |  |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 08:39 - Feb 7 with 4453 views | IpswichKnight |
It’s those first 6 games that have cost us, we should have got wins against Burton, Cheltenham and Wimbledon that would have given us an extra 8 points which would see us 5th. |  | | |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 08:46 - Feb 7 with 4405 views | Trequartista |
It always seems to work like that, similarly you lose a couple and don’t seem to lose much ground. In the end, if one of our wins was a defeat we would be bang mid table with equal wins and losses so we can’t really complain how far away we are. |  |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 08:56 - Feb 7 with 4338 views | Steve_M |
Yes, a few more points earlier in the season would have us very well placed now. MCK's five wins are even more impressive compared to a mere seven up until that point.
At least the games in hand, other than for Wigan, that other clubs have have gone down a bit without us losing ground.
As much as the number of wins, it will probably take us winning at MK or Oxford to help close the gap. |  |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 09:03 - Feb 7 with 4277 views | Guthrum |
However, 11 of those 16 games are against teams below us in the table and 13 of the 16 against teams below us in the 6- or 8-game form tables. It's a stiff target, but not, perhaps, as far-fetched as one might think.
Added to that, two of those in the play-off places are currently staggering and Plymouth have a lot of the top six teams to play in the last month of the season (four of them between the 15th and 30th of April). |  |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 09:06 - Feb 7 with 4244 views | Churchman |
It’s very frustrating and disappointing. The first six weeks of the season really hurt us. However, we’ve been throwing away points since then too (Cambridge springs to mind). We just haven’t been good enough and it all feels a bit too late, even if our better results continue and our play improves.
You never know, hope springs eternal. Regardless, it’s imperative KM uses the last 16 games wisely and starts to build a proper team. |  | | |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 09:29 - Feb 7 with 4099 views | Chrisd |
Our current form is very good indeed, but how we are playing is a real concern. Look at Nottingham Forest yesterday, they are a side on the cusp of the Championship Play Offs (similar to us in L1), but they have a real energy and swagger about the way they are playing and brushed aside Leicester City in the FA Cup. We look the complete opposite, grinding away and nicking results with our laboured passing and disjointed play. I am still very much behind KM's revolution here - don't get me wrong - but the way we are playing is certainly not a side that is play off bound. Good form or not, we look a long way from being one of the top 6 in this league. I still feel there are 6 or 7 better 'teams' than us in L1, we just don't play as a collective unit. [Post edited 7 Feb 2022 9:33]
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 09:33 - Feb 7 with 4057 views | Keno |
Totally agree Joe, although there are some who dont and even a few who dont seem to rte McK
its a funny old game Joe |  |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 09:33 - Feb 7 with 4049 views | clive_baker |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 08:34 - Feb 7 by homer_123 |
We don't necessarily have to play better - it's a case of win any way we can.
As I said months ago, Cook should have gone earlier. |
I think the point is that unless we play better, we won't win enough. It's naive to think we can play like that every week and not be punished, especailly against some of the better sides like Bolton, Sheff Wed, MK Dons etc. |  |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:01 - Feb 7 with 3893 views | Garv |
Imagine beating the right teams will be crucial, and probably why we will fall short.
If you told me now we'd beat Plymouth, Oxford and MK Dons, I'd be confident of getting 6th. No way we're winning those three away games, though.
Correction; Plymouth is at home. Point still stands. [Post edited 7 Feb 2022 10:56]
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:05 - Feb 7 with 3869 views | GlasgowBlue |
I'd say 10 wins, 2 draws and 4 defeats will be enough. But those defeats cannot be against Oxford and Plymouth or it's over. [Post edited 7 Feb 2022 10:06]
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:16 - Feb 7 with 3779 views | LankHenners |
Not that trying to sneak into the final playoff spots should have been a target all along but mad how even a fairly average start to the season would see us on about the same points as the teams in 5th/6th, let alone getting the sort of results you’d expect us to get against the likes of Morcambe, Cheltenham, Wimbledon etc. which would have us thinking a crack at getting autos was on.
Cook properly screwed us with an atrocious start and it would take something special from McKenna to make up for it now. It’s a frustrating situation where it could take 2 or 3 weeks of good results for us and bad ones for others for us to make some ground but can all be lost in one bad weekend. I fear the points tally for getting into the POs is going to be higher than average this year as well even if we do manage to get to 74/75 points which would be a great effort from McKenna from where we were when he took over. |  |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:17 - Feb 7 with 3778 views | tractorboy1978 |
I remember saying after the game at Cambridge automatics were dead and play offs were going to be a challenge - that was after 12 games. We are now 4 points further off than at that point despite being 6th in the form table over that period since. The poor start has hugely cost us and it's very difficult to make up the sort of points we need to on teams that are bang in form and winning games at a similar rate.
All we can do now is concentrate on ourselves. If we hit 76 points we will be close - something like W10, D2, L4. If McKenna manages that he will have won 15 from 23 which would a hell of an effort whether we make it or not. | | | |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:20 - Feb 7 with 3729 views | clive_baker |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:01 - Feb 7 by Garv |
Imagine beating the right teams will be crucial, and probably why we will fall short.
If you told me now we'd beat Plymouth, Oxford and MK Dons, I'd be confident of getting 6th. No way we're winning those three away games, though.
Correction; Plymouth is at home. Point still stands. [Post edited 7 Feb 2022 10:56]
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On recent evidence we simply don't look good enough to get into the playoffs. It's one thing beating Gillingham and Accrington, but I don't think we're at anything like the level to yield enough points against the better sides. People talk of 5 wins from 7 as if all games are born equal, which of course they're not. It's great to win them, absolutely, but the performances and results at Sheff Wed and Bolton were sobering, and a I think a reflection of where we're at. Flat track bullies, demonstrating a good level of consitency against the sides we absolutely should be beating, but it's rare that we beat what I would class as a good side at this level. Aside from the double over Wycombe, who are good at what they do. Pompey away maybe, if they meet the definition of a good side which I think is debatable. We've played 6 games against the current top 5 and got 4 points. 4 draws, 2 defeats. If you extend that to the top 10 (excluding us), it's only Wycombe we've beaten. It's another 8 games, 2 wins against Wycombe, 1 draw (Sheff Wed home), 5 defeats. We've beaten 1 club this season in the current top 11 (10 really, as we can't beat ourselves). It's not good enough.
We've got 6 more games against them to complete the set, and I really want to see us beating Wigan and Charlton at home, perhaps an MK Dons or Oxford away. It's not a new thing, and no reflection on KM, we've been the same for years. If we've got the best squad in the league, as I'm so often told, when will we start showing it.? | |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:21 - Feb 7 with 3718 views | Dubtractor |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:16 - Feb 7 by LankHenners |
Not that trying to sneak into the final playoff spots should have been a target all along but mad how even a fairly average start to the season would see us on about the same points as the teams in 5th/6th, let alone getting the sort of results you’d expect us to get against the likes of Morcambe, Cheltenham, Wimbledon etc. which would have us thinking a crack at getting autos was on.
Cook properly screwed us with an atrocious start and it would take something special from McKenna to make up for it now. It’s a frustrating situation where it could take 2 or 3 weeks of good results for us and bad ones for others for us to make some ground but can all be lost in one bad weekend. I fear the points tally for getting into the POs is going to be higher than average this year as well even if we do manage to get to 74/75 points which would be a great effort from McKenna from where we were when he took over. |
As I mentioned in here yesterday, just a small amount of pragmatism from Cook in those first couple of months, rather than his dogmatic determination to get him formation to work, and he'd still be in a job and we'd be in the top 6. |  |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:27 - Feb 7 with 3670 views | clive_baker |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:21 - Feb 7 by Dubtractor |
As I mentioned in here yesterday, just a small amount of pragmatism from Cook in those first couple of months, rather than his dogmatic determination to get him formation to work, and he'd still be in a job and we'd be in the top 6. |
His 'I'm never going to shut up shop, it's not what I do' comment after throwing away a lead at Cambridge smacked of complete naivity and arrogance in the ability of his squad. As if he didn't need to apply thought or nous, just chuck a side out and hope we'll score 1 more than them. Real car crash. | |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:35 - Feb 7 with 3590 views | itfcjoe |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:17 - Feb 7 by tractorboy1978 |
I remember saying after the game at Cambridge automatics were dead and play offs were going to be a challenge - that was after 12 games. We are now 4 points further off than at that point despite being 6th in the form table over that period since. The poor start has hugely cost us and it's very difficult to make up the sort of points we need to on teams that are bang in form and winning games at a similar rate.
All we can do now is concentrate on ourselves. If we hit 76 points we will be close - something like W10, D2, L4. If McKenna manages that he will have won 15 from 23 which would a hell of an effort whether we make it or not. |
There was always talk of when we click, but like you I was saying we were just leaving too much to do - people don't like to see stats but when you are looking at needing once in a generation form to get in the play offs it was never going to be at all likely as we are showing now when picking up points but still miles off it.
I think it'll take at least 78 or 79 points for the top 6 - then you just look at what we've got to do to achieve that so 34/35 points from 16 - we don't look like doing that at the moment | |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:36 - Feb 7 with 3581 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 08:34 - Feb 7 by homer_123 |
We don't necessarily have to play better - it's a case of win any way we can.
As I said months ago, Cook should have gone earlier. |
To think that after the Charlton game people were posting that sacking Cook had killed off any chance of making the top six. | |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:40 - Feb 7 with 3551 views | itfcjoe |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:20 - Feb 7 by clive_baker |
On recent evidence we simply don't look good enough to get into the playoffs. It's one thing beating Gillingham and Accrington, but I don't think we're at anything like the level to yield enough points against the better sides. People talk of 5 wins from 7 as if all games are born equal, which of course they're not. It's great to win them, absolutely, but the performances and results at Sheff Wed and Bolton were sobering, and a I think a reflection of where we're at. Flat track bullies, demonstrating a good level of consitency against the sides we absolutely should be beating, but it's rare that we beat what I would class as a good side at this level. Aside from the double over Wycombe, who are good at what they do. Pompey away maybe, if they meet the definition of a good side which I think is debatable. We've played 6 games against the current top 5 and got 4 points. 4 draws, 2 defeats. If you extend that to the top 10 (excluding us), it's only Wycombe we've beaten. It's another 8 games, 2 wins against Wycombe, 1 draw (Sheff Wed home), 5 defeats. We've beaten 1 club this season in the current top 11 (10 really, as we can't beat ourselves). It's not good enough.
We've got 6 more games against them to complete the set, and I really want to see us beating Wigan and Charlton at home, perhaps an MK Dons or Oxford away. It's not a new thing, and no reflection on KM, we've been the same for years. If we've got the best squad in the league, as I'm so often told, when will we start showing it.? |
Morsy been a big miss, and whist he played at Bolton and we lost that was a fairly even game we just lost in the margins.
The reason we are nowhere now is because Cook failed to beat the rubbish teams this season as with that added we'd be there or thereabouts - but as you say it is mad how we have just consistently failed to beat the good teams - the only time we did was at the start of 19/20 and the short time Gill was running things......and what was happening then - direct, 2 strikers, more percentage football, higher pressing.......have we tried to be too clever? | |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:41 - Feb 7 with 3533 views | LankHenners |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:27 - Feb 7 by clive_baker |
His 'I'm never going to shut up shop, it's not what I do' comment after throwing away a lead at Cambridge smacked of complete naivity and arrogance in the ability of his squad. As if he didn't need to apply thought or nous, just chuck a side out and hope we'll score 1 more than them. Real car crash. |
This was after a game where, not for the first time, the opposition sought to win the midfield scrap and ended up picking up pretty much every 2nd ball and rather than bring on an extra midfielder to help with that he just switched the forward players who struggled to get on the ball as much as the ones they replaced.
The daft thing was he brought on an extra midfielder against MK Dons because they started to take control but it was like he betrayed his principles and only wanted to do things ‘his way’ after that. Pretty sure he also brought on an extra defender to see out a game after Cambridge so presumably deep down knew he’d made the wrong call previously but as you say was too stubborn to act on it when required.
I think the core issue with Cook was that he never managed (bar the odd game like Wycombe or Portsmouth) to get his 4231 working properly like he had before as he couldn’t work out which combination of players and partnerships worked best which frustrated him. Then rather than seek alternative solutions became more dogged in his determination to get it to work but couldn’t get it to happen. | |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:53 - Feb 7 with 3436 views | abracaDOBRA_ |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:40 - Feb 7 by itfcjoe |
Morsy been a big miss, and whist he played at Bolton and we lost that was a fairly even game we just lost in the margins.
The reason we are nowhere now is because Cook failed to beat the rubbish teams this season as with that added we'd be there or thereabouts - but as you say it is mad how we have just consistently failed to beat the good teams - the only time we did was at the start of 19/20 and the short time Gill was running things......and what was happening then - direct, 2 strikers, more percentage football, higher pressing.......have we tried to be too clever? |
Weve done the double over Wycombe so its progress i guess  |  | | |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:53 - Feb 7 with 3433 views | clive_baker |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:40 - Feb 7 by itfcjoe |
Morsy been a big miss, and whist he played at Bolton and we lost that was a fairly even game we just lost in the margins.
The reason we are nowhere now is because Cook failed to beat the rubbish teams this season as with that added we'd be there or thereabouts - but as you say it is mad how we have just consistently failed to beat the good teams - the only time we did was at the start of 19/20 and the short time Gill was running things......and what was happening then - direct, 2 strikers, more percentage football, higher pressing.......have we tried to be too clever? |
How often are we falling on the wrong side of these supposed fairly even games though? Plymouth away, Sunderland away, Bolton away. All supposedly even, yet 0 points, 1 scored, 6 conceded. At what point is it more than bad luck?
We've defintely tried to be too clever, I really do beleive that and have done for a long time. It's like there's been an arrogance about us that we're at a level we have no right to be at, our fans, our history, on the pitch and off it. I can't think of sides at this level getting anything but admirers by playing out from the back to the extent we have. Crewe are nice to watch, but it's not got them anywhere. It was a big frustration of a number of the camp when Lambert was here, that we overplayed and seemed obsessed by developing this style that just never seemed to penetrate anyone half decent. The over emphasis on possession, largely without purpose, rather than playing to the strenghts of who we had available to us. Meanwhile look at Rotherham, Coventry, Blackpool all with a clear identity, far more pragmatism but hard to play against. Coventry and Blackpool have made the transition to the Championship pretty well too, and I dare say they have less possession of the ball than their opponents more often than not.
I would love us to have invested in developing an approach that was a bit more back to basics, 2 up front, more direct, defenders who can defend, creativity wide and a sh1thouse or 2 up front. McGreal was taking us a step towards that, we got a decent point at Wigan, Sunderland at home was showing some green shoots and to a certain extent KM's Wycombe victory was that too, as he had just stepped through the door. I think we have the personnel, that's what's frustrating. | |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:58 - Feb 7 with 3360 views | BiGDonnie |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:27 - Feb 7 by clive_baker |
His 'I'm never going to shut up shop, it's not what I do' comment after throwing away a lead at Cambridge smacked of complete naivity and arrogance in the ability of his squad. As if he didn't need to apply thought or nous, just chuck a side out and hope we'll score 1 more than them. Real car crash. |
We still have TWTDers who didn't want him sacked. Even after KM has won 5/7. Madness. |  |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 11:11 - Feb 7 with 3295 views | Chrisd |
| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 10:53 - Feb 7 by clive_baker |
How often are we falling on the wrong side of these supposed fairly even games though? Plymouth away, Sunderland away, Bolton away. All supposedly even, yet 0 points, 1 scored, 6 conceded. At what point is it more than bad luck?
We've defintely tried to be too clever, I really do beleive that and have done for a long time. It's like there's been an arrogance about us that we're at a level we have no right to be at, our fans, our history, on the pitch and off it. I can't think of sides at this level getting anything but admirers by playing out from the back to the extent we have. Crewe are nice to watch, but it's not got them anywhere. It was a big frustration of a number of the camp when Lambert was here, that we overplayed and seemed obsessed by developing this style that just never seemed to penetrate anyone half decent. The over emphasis on possession, largely without purpose, rather than playing to the strenghts of who we had available to us. Meanwhile look at Rotherham, Coventry, Blackpool all with a clear identity, far more pragmatism but hard to play against. Coventry and Blackpool have made the transition to the Championship pretty well too, and I dare say they have less possession of the ball than their opponents more often than not.
I would love us to have invested in developing an approach that was a bit more back to basics, 2 up front, more direct, defenders who can defend, creativity wide and a sh1thouse or 2 up front. McGreal was taking us a step towards that, we got a decent point at Wigan, Sunderland at home was showing some green shoots and to a certain extent KM's Wycombe victory was that too, as he had just stepped through the door. I think we have the personnel, that's what's frustrating. |
I agree CB. We lack a resilience and can still have that soft underbelly. If we are put under enough pressure we buckle, however you look at a side like Rotherham they stay in games by being resolute and not folding. When I was looking at the league table yesterday I couldn't believe they'd only conceded 5 away goals all season in the league. That is a incredible stat! KM seems to have shored us up defensively more recently, but I always feel if we go behind then invariably we struggle to get back into games, especially if we are playing poorly ala Sheffield Wednesday away. | |
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| 5 wins out of 7 now.... on 11:32 - Feb 7 with 3178 views | itfcsuth |
In hindsight he should have gone sooner, I was one who initially thought it wasn’t the correct decision, but with McKenna coming in and hitting over 70% win ratio, and us sill being too far out of the picture this year opens the eyes as to the damage being done before KM arrived.
It’s too late this time around, but we must continue to build strong foundations, make sone alterations that KM wishes in the summer and se us up in good stead going in to next year. |  | | |
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