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On zero hour / gig contracts suffering from rising prices, sent from the tube drivers today. To go with their gratefully received message on Tues. And not forgetting their continuing weekend show of support - they're really on the side of the less well off and never miss a chance to show that. Thanks brothers.
[Post edited 3 Mar 2022 9:16]
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Surely a good chunk of the blame has to be laid at TfL's door. Hear me out...
We all know how these situations work by now:
TfL announce changes that will jeopardise the T&Cs of its workers Tube drivers strike TfL either waters down or scraps the proposals altogether
Forcing the unions to call strike action has simply become part of the 'dance' that seems to be a required part of this situation. TfL have it entirely within their gift to cut out the middleman, and come back with more palatable proposals without the unions having to strike in order to force their hand.
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 12:52 - Mar 3 by Zx1988
Surely a good chunk of the blame has to be laid at TfL's door. Hear me out...
We all know how these situations work by now:
TfL announce changes that will jeopardise the T&Cs of its workers Tube drivers strike TfL either waters down or scraps the proposals altogether
Forcing the unions to call strike action has simply become part of the 'dance' that seems to be a required part of this situation. TfL have it entirely within their gift to cut out the middleman, and come back with more palatable proposals without the unions having to strike in order to force their hand.
You're suggesting it's always TFL's fault? They should just always give in to whatever the union wants?!
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 13:00 - Mar 3 with 865 views
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 12:55 - Mar 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
You're suggesting it's always TFL's fault? They should just always give in to whatever the union wants?!
I'm suggesting that, given that the outcome is always broadly similar (the unions extracting a climbdown from TfL), it seems utterly pointless for TfL to force strike action given that they never win these disputes anyway.
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 12:52 - Mar 3 by Zx1988
Surely a good chunk of the blame has to be laid at TfL's door. Hear me out...
We all know how these situations work by now:
TfL announce changes that will jeopardise the T&Cs of its workers Tube drivers strike TfL either waters down or scraps the proposals altogether
Forcing the unions to call strike action has simply become part of the 'dance' that seems to be a required part of this situation. TfL have it entirely within their gift to cut out the middleman, and come back with more palatable proposals without the unions having to strike in order to force their hand.
"TfL have it entirely within their gift to cut out the middleman, and come back with more palatable proposals without the unions having to strike in order to force their hand."
That's just not true, as far as I know at least. TFL is basically bankrupt, as a result of falling passenger numbers from Covid and the Govt's messing about on filling the gap. Upgrades have been scrapped, whole lines could get shut and there's talk of terminating up 10% of bus routes all to balance the books.
It is fair to say that it's in the govt's power to stop the dispute, but not TFL's - they're caught between a rock and hard place.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
In the UK, trade union membership has been found to result in a pay premium for workers in the range of 10-15%. (Bryson, A (2014), ‘Union wage effects’, article for IZA World of Labor)
The Independent Workers’ Union of Great Britain (IWGB) represents mainly low paid workers including those in the gig economy. IWGB had about 2,500 members in 2018.
The answer surely, rather than any TU ignoring one of its raisons d'etre i.e. to secure the best outcomes for its members, is for those less fortunate to unionise.
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 13:00 - Mar 3 by Zx1988
I'm suggesting that, given that the outcome is always broadly similar (the unions extracting a climbdown from TfL), it seems utterly pointless for TfL to force strike action given that they never win these disputes anyway.
As I understand it, this strike is primarily because TfL have committed to 'reviewing' ways in which the pension deficit can be reduced.
Not because there are any proposals.....or even ideas about potential proposals at this stage. Just because TfL have committed to doing what is their statutory responsibility and the drivers don't want them to.
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Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 14:24 - Mar 3 with 764 views
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 13:06 - Mar 3 by You_Bloo_Right
But consider this:
In the UK, trade union membership has been found to result in a pay premium for workers in the range of 10-15%. (Bryson, A (2014), ‘Union wage effects’, article for IZA World of Labor)
The Independent Workers’ Union of Great Britain (IWGB) represents mainly low paid workers including those in the gig economy. IWGB had about 2,500 members in 2018.
The answer surely, rather than any TU ignoring one of its raisons d'etre i.e. to secure the best outcomes for its members, is for those less fortunate to unionise.
[Post edited 3 Mar 2022 17:12]
Thats interesting, thanks (although the links isn't working unfortunately). What I don't understand is how a bod on a zero hour contract is meant to strike against Tube workers disrupting their lives? Ages back there was a brief movement to create a passenger strike, but as far as I know, it never got off the ground. Probably too tricky to organise I spose.
Or i've misunderstood and you're saying that zero hour workers would be better placed to withstand a strike if they were paid better?
Or you're saying that everyone could / should be better paid. But that would money would need to come from somewhere - either high consumer prices or higher taxation.
Just to say I'm in favour of higher taxes for the higher earners, but that would mean taxing those same tube drivers more! Wouldn't they just strike for more money as a result?
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 14:24 - Mar 3 by giant_stow
Thats interesting, thanks (although the links isn't working unfortunately). What I don't understand is how a bod on a zero hour contract is meant to strike against Tube workers disrupting their lives? Ages back there was a brief movement to create a passenger strike, but as far as I know, it never got off the ground. Probably too tricky to organise I spose.
Or i've misunderstood and you're saying that zero hour workers would be better placed to withstand a strike if they were paid better?
Or you're saying that everyone could / should be better paid. But that would money would need to come from somewhere - either high consumer prices or higher taxation.
Just to say I'm in favour of higher taxes for the higher earners, but that would mean taxing those same tube drivers more! Wouldn't they just strike for more money as a result?
We pay higher taxes in Scandinavia and nobody complains. We have a welfare state that puts Britain to shame. I guess it depends on your priorities as a nation.
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 14:37 - Mar 3 by noggin
We pay higher taxes in Scandinavia and nobody complains. We have a welfare state that puts Britain to shame. I guess it depends on your priorities as a nation.
"Just to say I'm in favour of higher taxes for the higher earners"
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 14:37 - Mar 3 by noggin
We pay higher taxes in Scandinavia and nobody complains. We have a welfare state that puts Britain to shame. I guess it depends on your priorities as a nation.
I think to say no one complains is rather an exaggeration. The majority may well be happy but I know plenty of Norwegians who complain about their tax rates.
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Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 17:04 - Mar 3 with 608 views
Perhaps the fact they earn 56k have great benefits *and* strike when their or their colleagues’ jobs are threatened are related things?
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 17:00 - Mar 3 by longtimefan
I think to say no one complains is rather an exaggeration. The majority may well be happy but I know plenty of Norwegians who complain about their tax rates.
Plenty, really? I'll bet if you ask them to answer seriously, taking into account the standard of living here, they wouldn't complain too much.
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 14:37 - Mar 3 by noggin
We pay higher taxes in Scandinavia and nobody complains. We have a welfare state that puts Britain to shame. I guess it depends on your priorities as a nation.
“Nobody complains”, untrue.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 17:09 - Mar 3 by noggin
Here he is.... Like a Jack in the box.
We’ve already gone from nobody complains to they won’t complain too much if you ask.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 17:04 - Mar 3 by chicoazul
Perhaps the fact they earn 56k have great benefits *and* strike when their or their colleagues’ jobs are threatened are related things?
I think you might be missing my point m'lover. Just because they can strike, doesn't mean they should strike now. I'm calling out their left-wing credentials as a sham: they hurt people less well off than themselves.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
A few years ago TfL new fleet of underground trains had the potential to be driverless - does anyone know if all of the trains now have the function of being driverless?
I always thought that the long term plan for TfL was to have the option to go driverless and then, in the advent of a strike, to carry on with a fullish timetable without drivers.
If this were to happen then a lot of the power of the relevant unions would disappear.
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Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 17:15 - Mar 3 with 543 views
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 17:11 - Mar 3 by giant_stow
I think you might be missing my point m'lover. Just because they can strike, doesn't mean they should strike now. I'm calling out their left-wing credentials as a sham: they hurt people less well off than themselves.
And my point is perhaps they have to strike in order to maintain their positions and those of their colleagues in cleaning back office etc Whilst I take your point and understand it, alternative transport is always available for the people I think you are talking about who get “hurt”. As another poster says above sadly this is all part of the dance between the RMT and TfL.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 17:15 - Mar 3 by MattinLondon
A few years ago TfL new fleet of underground trains had the potential to be driverless - does anyone know if all of the trains now have the function of being driverless?
I always thought that the long term plan for TfL was to have the option to go driverless and then, in the advent of a strike, to carry on with a fullish timetable without drivers.
If this were to happen then a lot of the power of the relevant unions would disappear.
I believe Jubilee line trains can be driverless (and they're knocking on a little) so would guess so. But I guess there must be some agreement to not go there or it'll be the strike to end all strikes.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Another charming message of solidarity sent to those on 14:24 - Mar 3 by giant_stow
Thats interesting, thanks (although the links isn't working unfortunately). What I don't understand is how a bod on a zero hour contract is meant to strike against Tube workers disrupting their lives? Ages back there was a brief movement to create a passenger strike, but as far as I know, it never got off the ground. Probably too tricky to organise I spose.
Or i've misunderstood and you're saying that zero hour workers would be better placed to withstand a strike if they were paid better?
Or you're saying that everyone could / should be better paid. But that would money would need to come from somewhere - either high consumer prices or higher taxation.
Just to say I'm in favour of higher taxes for the higher earners, but that would mean taxing those same tube drivers more! Wouldn't they just strike for more money as a result?
I hope that link to the Guardian article is now fixed.
I thought what I was suggesting was fairly clear.
Workers, including those on zero hours contracts/part of the gig economy, would be better off (and not just financially) if they were part of a TU.
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