| Just Stop Oil protesters 17:52 - Apr 14 with 10475 views | gtsb1966 |
Absolute tossers. People today trying to go about their work, including me, and diesel was like gold dust. People worrying how they are going to earn a crust. Nine petrol stations on our route before we found diesel. Others were not so lucky. If they are going to sit in the road water cannon the lot of them. Rant over, happy easter. |  | | |  |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 10:25 - Apr 15 with 1718 views | solomon |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 10:00 - Apr 15 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"....hopefully there will soon be a trickle down of used EVs coming on stream in the not too distant future...."
Apparently you can pick up an 8 year old BMW electric vehicle for about 8k. Oh but the battery will need replacing at circa 10k !! |
Yes but if you currently buy a used car you tend to buy one with a warranty, if you’re silly enough to buy a used EV without one then you're a bit daft or not that bothered about loosing the cash. Most used EVs will have a 2 to 3 year warranty, heavy used batteries will have been replaced or sold at rock bottom residuals .
Used EV’s will give the same benefits and pitfalls as their fossil fuel forebears, no better no worse. [Post edited 15 Apr 2022 11:22]
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 10:56 - Apr 15 with 1680 views | longtimefan |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 10:25 - Apr 15 by solomon |
Yes but if you currently buy a used car you tend to buy one with a warranty, if you’re silly enough to buy a used EV without one then you're a bit daft or not that bothered about loosing the cash. Most used EVs will have a 2 to 3 year warranty, heavy used batteries will have been replaced or sold at rock bottom residuals .
Used EV’s will give the same benefits and pitfalls as their fossil fuel forebears, no better no worse. [Post edited 15 Apr 2022 11:22]
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There’s definitely a bit of a dilemma with current EV cars in that they are better suited for shorter journeys than long ones due to the battery technology. The problem is that when total CO2 emissions are considered it takes a fairly high mileage before the crossover point is reached where the higher production process emissions associated with EV are cancelled out by the on-going fuel emissions. Volvo recently did a detailed analysis of the lifetime emissions of the ICE and EV variants of one of their models. They found the crossover point was between 47000 and 146000 km depending on the ”greenness”of the electricity used for charging. With the EU28 mix of electricity generation the crossover point was 84000 km.
https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentplatform/data/media/my |  | | |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:03 - Apr 15 with 1666 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 10:25 - Apr 15 by solomon |
Yes but if you currently buy a used car you tend to buy one with a warranty, if you’re silly enough to buy a used EV without one then you're a bit daft or not that bothered about loosing the cash. Most used EVs will have a 2 to 3 year warranty, heavy used batteries will have been replaced or sold at rock bottom residuals .
Used EV’s will give the same benefits and pitfalls as their fossil fuel forebears, no better no worse. [Post edited 15 Apr 2022 11:22]
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Do EV warranties cover battery decline?
As we have only ever paid hundreds rather than thousands of pounds on a car/van I think it may be some time before we go electric! |  |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:16 - Apr 15 with 1640 views | Deano69 |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 09:41 - Apr 15 by EdwardStone |
There are projects ongoing to produce hydrogen from off shore wind turbines and pipe ashore as hydrogen....
Cuts down transmission loss from sending ashore as electricity and then converting
Green Hydrogen is real |
I always felt hydrogen was the way forward. But isn’t it difficult to transport and store? |  |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:17 - Apr 15 with 1640 views | solomon |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:03 - Apr 15 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Do EV warranties cover battery decline?
As we have only ever paid hundreds rather than thousands of pounds on a car/van I think it may be some time before we go electric! |
Yes, 80,000 mikes or 10 years in some cases, whichever comes first. This is right now, battery tech will have advanced significantly by the time people are forced into used EV’s | | | |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:27 - Apr 15 with 1635 views | solomon |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 10:56 - Apr 15 by longtimefan |
There’s definitely a bit of a dilemma with current EV cars in that they are better suited for shorter journeys than long ones due to the battery technology. The problem is that when total CO2 emissions are considered it takes a fairly high mileage before the crossover point is reached where the higher production process emissions associated with EV are cancelled out by the on-going fuel emissions. Volvo recently did a detailed analysis of the lifetime emissions of the ICE and EV variants of one of their models. They found the crossover point was between 47000 and 146000 km depending on the ”greenness”of the electricity used for charging. With the EU28 mix of electricity generation the crossover point was 84000 km.
https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentplatform/data/media/my |
I think this an argument used by many in the fossil fuel lobby , it may have some validity in some limited aspects but the way forward is EV take up, that’s what the science is telling us. | | | |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:31 - Apr 15 with 1624 views | EdwardStone |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:16 - Apr 15 by Deano69 |
I always felt hydrogen was the way forward. But isn’t it difficult to transport and store? |
Yes, difficult but not impossible to store safely
Slightly more dangerous than petrol, but technology has moved on since Hindenberg disaster
The solution is hydrogen.... unlike electricity, it is possible to store huge amounts until it is needed |  | | |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:50 - Apr 15 with 1616 views | longtimefan |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:27 - Apr 15 by solomon |
I think this an argument used by many in the fossil fuel lobby , it may have some validity in some limited aspects but the way forward is EV take up, that’s what the science is telling us. |
I don’t doubt that EV is the future. However as someone who wants to reduce their carbon footprint and who only does about 3000 miles a year and keeps a car for about 6 or 7 years on average, what route do I take? I’m looking to replace a nine year old car currently and from that report the science would suggest that with current technology, from a total emissions point of view, it would probably be better for the planet if I went ICE rather than EV. | | | |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 12:13 - Apr 15 with 1594 views | solomon |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:50 - Apr 15 by longtimefan |
I don’t doubt that EV is the future. However as someone who wants to reduce their carbon footprint and who only does about 3000 miles a year and keeps a car for about 6 or 7 years on average, what route do I take? I’m looking to replace a nine year old car currently and from that report the science would suggest that with current technology, from a total emissions point of view, it would probably be better for the planet if I went ICE rather than EV. |
It’s should also be noted that anything coming from Volvo nowadays is actually coming from Geely, the parent company whose views on climate change are some what regressive. | | | |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 12:29 - Apr 15 with 1566 views | wkj |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:31 - Apr 15 by EdwardStone |
Yes, difficult but not impossible to store safely
Slightly more dangerous than petrol, but technology has moved on since Hindenberg disaster
The solution is hydrogen.... unlike electricity, it is possible to store huge amounts until it is needed |
The problem is that hydrogen doesn't have a consumer benefit right now, with prices exceeding that of petrol, or did until the big inflation hike. I have been an EV owner for a year now, and the consumer benefit has been dramatic for me (I do have solar panels, for the double whammy). |  |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 12:49 - Apr 15 with 1547 views | Grandpa |
I'm a delivery driver for one of the big supermarkets...
I did a delivery recently & spotted an Extinction Rebellion poster in their window - & they're having their groceries delivered! | | | |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 12:54 - Apr 15 with 1536 views | Ryorry |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 10:07 - Apr 15 by pointofblue |
Though that is assuming the government care, want to listen or want help. Despite all the science saying otherwise they’ll just commissioned the use of more fossil fuels.
Part of the issue, however, is the government cannot be seen to back down to these tactics. If the approach of Just Stop Oil works then would other causes try the same approach to get attention as they knew it twisted the government’s arm previously? On the other side commencing further use of fossil fuels is little short of ludicrous. |
Exactly.
Some people need to wise up. When Cameron was PM & pushing the 'dash for gas' fracking agenda, he & almost all his entire cabinet (and/or their families) had shares in fossil fuel giants and the financial institutions & spin-off industries that supported them - these were fully evidenced cases of vested interests and corruption. I don't know about the current PM & cabinet, but would be very surprised if none of them had shares in Shell, BP etc.
Really, the only way of properly dealing with this in the UK is to vote the Tories out & vote in other party/ies with a green manifesto. To do this we also need a change in our voting system to PR, which of course is exceptionally hard to do - chicken-egg etc.
Nor do blanket statements help or cover the whole picture. I drive a 13 year old diesel landrover, my tot mileage over past 2 years has been approx 1,000 miles - all for medical appts. I haven't flown since 1994, & that was 2hr journey from old home in Orkney to new home in Yorkshire which would have taken 36 hours by ferry-train-taxi. I eat meat only twice a week.
It would also help enormously in the UK if we had a railway service that actually functioned & cost less than flying ...
Footnote for gtsb - working women, as well as "working men" if you don't mind. |  |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 13:11 - Apr 15 with 1510 views | CoachRob |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 19:13 - Apr 14 by jeera |
Not really Rob.
That's how my 3 year old cousin died.
I felt that was a valid point to make myself. |
Sorry about your cousin jeera, that is such a horrible experience and obviously, validates your point. I just despair we are doing nothing to stop civilisation collapse, we may already be beyond some irreversible tipping points and little research exists on what that would look like. Over 1,000 scientists have been risking arrest but to no avail, we have these activists trying but largely being mocked and ignored, and types like Hartley-Brewer suggesting activists should be run over. I did a brief talk to some Friends of the Earth activists and some of these people were in their eighties and nineties, the idea of causing physical harm to these people is abhorrent.
Sorry again, I didn't understand the personal context and these discussions are very hard given what is at stake - it is not easy to navigate a course without upsetting people. |  | | |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 13:13 - Apr 15 with 1506 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 22:25 - Apr 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Unfortunately Big Oil have limited investment in technology such as hydrogen and sodium ion batteries which have less money to be made out of them compared to electric and lithium so it is not in their financial interest to promote meaningful alternatives. We need a new economic model. |
I think I was a bit hard on the oil protesters to be fair - I was just wound up because I can't get one of our bods to collect something as he can't get any diesel. |  |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 13:13 - Apr 15 with 1507 views | ZXBlue |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 21:03 - Apr 14 by gtsb1966 |
Diesel is being fazed out. Diesel vehicles will be no more. That doesn't help the builder trying to get to work with a 5 year old van today. |
Diesel remains more efficient than petrol.
My car has £20 a year tax as a result... | | | |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 13:44 - Apr 15 with 1466 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:17 - Apr 15 by solomon |
Yes, 80,000 mikes or 10 years in some cases, whichever comes first. This is right now, battery tech will have advanced significantly by the time people are forced into used EV’s |
It needs to as well as obviously they’re nasty things from the heavy metal perspective. We’re just swapping one pollutant with another (albeit batteries have more of a local impact).
They’re doing some decent research on battery tech down here at Swansea Uni (as I suspect many Unis are). But we need something paradigm shifting. I’ve always thought we’d be getter going down the hydrogen route, but that still seems not an option. |  |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 13:45 - Apr 15 with 1464 views | BondiBlue |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 18:29 - Apr 14 by jeera |
Don't be silly.
If it was your child turning blue in the back seat of the car on the way to hospital and you're frantically staring at the gauge at the same time as the road you'd not be saying such things.
I wish people would think this stuff through sometimes, even those posters I like. |
Has this happened though? The kid turning blue? The day it does, feel free to start using it as an argument about why people shouldn't protest. Until then, it's just a 'what if?'
I got pulled over by a traffic cop in western australia who fined me $500 for not wearing a seatbelt. He only did that because he couldn't do anything about the fact that i was driving an unregistered car because i was on a UK licence. As he wrote me my ticket, he told me how awful it would be if i'd run over his kid. I don't disagree, but i didn't run over his kid. You can't have a go at people for something that didn't happen. | |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 13:58 - Apr 15 with 1438 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 13:45 - Apr 15 by BondiBlue |
Has this happened though? The kid turning blue? The day it does, feel free to start using it as an argument about why people shouldn't protest. Until then, it's just a 'what if?'
I got pulled over by a traffic cop in western australia who fined me $500 for not wearing a seatbelt. He only did that because he couldn't do anything about the fact that i was driving an unregistered car because i was on a UK licence. As he wrote me my ticket, he told me how awful it would be if i'd run over his kid. I don't disagree, but i didn't run over his kid. You can't have a go at people for something that didn't happen. |
You should have read a bit further, as Jeera mentioned later it happened to his cousin.
Horrible, although not linked to the protests and such things can happen any time sadly. There’s always a risk with disruption like this, but then there’s always a risk. You could get caught in a normal jam and that could make a difference in a life and death situation. At least the protesters are trying to save us from ourselves. | |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 16:09 - Apr 15 with 1376 views | jeera |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 13:45 - Apr 15 by BondiBlue |
Has this happened though? The kid turning blue? The day it does, feel free to start using it as an argument about why people shouldn't protest. Until then, it's just a 'what if?'
I got pulled over by a traffic cop in western australia who fined me $500 for not wearing a seatbelt. He only did that because he couldn't do anything about the fact that i was driving an unregistered car because i was on a UK licence. As he wrote me my ticket, he told me how awful it would be if i'd run over his kid. I don't disagree, but i didn't run over his kid. You can't have a go at people for something that didn't happen. |
That post was intended as a response to all the comments suggesting no fuel = minor inconvenience.
There must be a thousand hypothetical situations that you could use. That one sprang to mind to me immediately because it was something that happened to my family, as in a little girl was wrongly sent home from hospital by an indifferent doctor calling her mother an over-fussing parent.
Dad got home from work, saw the child wasn't right and put her in the car driving like a madman to the hospital. She died in the car on the way.
I wasn't intending to cause offence but was a bit put out that people weren't acknowledging that no access to fuel can mean a damn sight more than a minor effing inconvenience to a great deal of people.
A bit of perspective and respect for other's needs would be nice.
But if you think a child has never had to be rushed to a hospital by a parent before and never will ever again, then you're right, I got nothing.
"What if " ffs.
Nor did I say people should not protest.
I also did not 'have a go' at anyone. I suggested a potential situation based on real-life experience.
On how many levels do you intend to be rude here exactly? [Post edited 15 Apr 2022 16:21]
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 16:21 - Apr 15 with 1368 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 11:03 - Apr 15 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Do EV warranties cover battery decline?
As we have only ever paid hundreds rather than thousands of pounds on a car/van I think it may be some time before we go electric! |
I heard a short while ago about someone who bought a brand new Jaguar (I think it was, certainly expensive, top-of-the-range brand) EV car. You are only meant to run the battery down to around 20% in order to preserve battery life. They left something on that drained the battery and the vehicle's range was significantly reduced as a result. When contacting the manufacturer, there is nothing they can do about it and it is not covered.
Surely manufacturers need to put some form of cut-off and manual override facility to preserve the battery! Battery technology generally needs to be improved. |  |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 16:32 - Apr 15 with 1337 views | solomon |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 16:21 - Apr 15 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I heard a short while ago about someone who bought a brand new Jaguar (I think it was, certainly expensive, top-of-the-range brand) EV car. You are only meant to run the battery down to around 20% in order to preserve battery life. They left something on that drained the battery and the vehicle's range was significantly reduced as a result. When contacting the manufacturer, there is nothing they can do about it and it is not covered.
Surely manufacturers need to put some form of cut-off and manual override facility to preserve the battery! Battery technology generally needs to be improved. |
To be honest I find that very hard to believe. Sounds at complete odds with the warranty I received. | | | |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 16:35 - Apr 15 with 1325 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 16:32 - Apr 15 by solomon |
To be honest I find that very hard to believe. Sounds at complete odds with the warranty I received. |
As I say, I heard it second or third hand from someone I vaguely know so could easily be apocryphal. Does your warranty cover accidentally running the battery down then? What would you get? A replacement battery or some other compensation? | |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 16:55 - Apr 15 with 1290 views | J2BLUE |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 12:49 - Apr 15 by Grandpa |
I'm a delivery driver for one of the big supermarkets...
I did a delivery recently & spotted an Extinction Rebellion poster in their window - & they're having their groceries delivered! |
...and?
What does that have to do with anything? |  |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 17:10 - Apr 15 with 1256 views | LeoMuff |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 16:55 - Apr 15 by J2BLUE |
...and?
What does that have to do with anything? |
For a start there are a few EV delivery vehicles now, and surely it’s more environmentally friendly for multi local drops than each person doing a 2 way supermarket trip ?
People literally will use any excuse to bash people prepared to stand up and try and save the planet, just weird. |  |
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| Just Stop Oil protesters on 17:15 - Apr 15 with 1237 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Just Stop Oil protesters on 16:55 - Apr 15 by J2BLUE |
...and?
What does that have to do with anything? |
Everyone who cares about the environment should grow all their own food and use natural leaves and plants for toilet paper and cleaning?
Or that grandpa simply hasn't got a clue. | |
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