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or is this an overreaction. Starting to get scary now especially with no end in sight. I can't see the people sitting on their hands hoping it rides itself out.
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Riots in the autumn? on 14:29 - Jul 24 with 1947 views
Re nationalisation of the utilities industries should be the first step, privatisation has only benefited the shareholders and cast millions into fuel poverty, as a civilised society we cannot morally allow this to continue. I know there will be some who want to point out the benefits of privatisation but the draw backs out weigh the benefits massively. We seem to be heading back to 1822 instead of 2022.
There is evidence that social inequality now is worse than Dickensian England when he was writing about Scrooge etc. I guess it doesn't feel the same, but the foodbank situation alone is cause for national shame and rage.
Moral Maze on the NHS this week was interesting. They had a very persuasive guest from Civitas, a think tank talking about how successful other models are for outcomes etc. I've since discovered that this is because their data includes the cost of COVID but doesn't declare it.
Trickery dressed up as reasonable discussion is going to be rife and insidious now we are so far past "fake news" etc. The fact that our trains are also an abominable rip off with ancient stock is another cause of shame.
Nationalisation of every key service and domestic institution that people need would be a massive act of patriotism.
Riots in the autumn? on 22:19 - Jul 23 by Oldsmoker
This Tory government is preparing for this very scenario. Remember that they passed the 'Police and Crime Bill' and that gave police forces the power to stop protests. They've just passed a bill to allow agency workers to take strikers jobs. Under EU law this was illegal. It was passed as a SI (statutory Instrument) which means it was never debated in Parliament. They will use SI to pass other legislation under the radar and the right-wing media won't publicise it. The right-wing media has been 'othering' for years and they will demonise anyone who is disobedient in not paying their bills. I believe Martin Lewis is right when he says that winter/xmas will be decision time for millions of people. Will the soundbite be 'We must dissent'?
You are correct. However, schools cannot find supply teachers let alone qualified staff. The idea some non-DBS-checked agency staff is on standby to cover classes when teachers go on strike is just there to fool the electorate. Will they still be fooled when the schools are shut and the bins are not collected?
I am sure that under Truss and Patel even more radical laws will be passed. It wouldn't surprise me to see Trade Union leaders and members arrested under them before too long. What would that be reminiscent of?
Riots in the autumn? on 08:09 - Jul 24 by balcombeblue
People at quick to forget that it’s capitalism that has given hundreds of millions of people worldwide a route out of poverty, individual rights and comes hand in hand with democracy.
I am torn between wanting a Government to enact policies like she proposes and the fact that only a party in power can do so. There was no way the establishment was going to allow the electorate to put Corbyn's government in power.
Riots in the autumn? on 16:15 - Jul 24 by Nthsuffolkblue
You are correct. However, schools cannot find supply teachers let alone qualified staff. The idea some non-DBS-checked agency staff is on standby to cover classes when teachers go on strike is just there to fool the electorate. Will they still be fooled when the schools are shut and the bins are not collected?
I am sure that under Truss and Patel even more radical laws will be passed. It wouldn't surprise me to see Trade Union leaders and members arrested under them before too long. What would that be reminiscent of?
And good luck finding agency workers who can attend court to defend you when the lawyers are on strike. I think the skilled workers have an edge - their skills. Many Teachers, Nurses and Police have left their professions and the govt., through their actions, have done nothing to address it leaving vacancies that cannot be filled from agencies. There are months/years of training to get a qualified person able to take these jobs.
The unskilled worker, that's another bag of worms. They can be exploited by agencies and businesses. Zero-hour contracts with no holiday pay, sick-pay etc. These people are not in unions and are the lowest paid.
As for locking up Trade Union leaders they would have to pass new laws. I wouldn't put it past them. However, Civil servants have the strongest of all Trade unions so that's a doozy.
The current Trade Union law means a democratic vote from their members must take place. A high percentage of members must take part in the ballot and a large majority need to want a strike for it to have credence. A close result like the Brexit referendum would not result in a strike because the Union leaders would say they didn't have a clear mandate to strike.
In the '80's when the coal miners were on strike, they were fighting for their way of life. Thatcher had made many speeches announcing her plans to close the mines down. She was taking away their means to support their families. She was deliberately targeting a section of society.
Fast forward to today and it appears their target is the poor and vulnerable. I am in this group. Those that have no savings, live pay check to pay check. skip meals and go to food banks haven't time, money or resources to challenge this govt. So, the govt. can just ignore them, pretend they don't exist and hope they'll somehow go away. This group of people are not organised - they don't belong to a union. They will need society in general to speak and protest on their behalf.
At the moment, those that need to speak truth to power aren't shouting loud enough and they are being drowned out by the right-wing media who will make excuses for the Tories and indulge in othering to shift the blame. At the moment the 'others' are the French and the EU. Somethings got to give. Truss will be like a rabbit caught in the headlights when it does.
Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
Riots in the autumn? on 17:31 - Jul 24 by Oldsmoker
And good luck finding agency workers who can attend court to defend you when the lawyers are on strike. I think the skilled workers have an edge - their skills. Many Teachers, Nurses and Police have left their professions and the govt., through their actions, have done nothing to address it leaving vacancies that cannot be filled from agencies. There are months/years of training to get a qualified person able to take these jobs.
The unskilled worker, that's another bag of worms. They can be exploited by agencies and businesses. Zero-hour contracts with no holiday pay, sick-pay etc. These people are not in unions and are the lowest paid.
As for locking up Trade Union leaders they would have to pass new laws. I wouldn't put it past them. However, Civil servants have the strongest of all Trade unions so that's a doozy.
The current Trade Union law means a democratic vote from their members must take place. A high percentage of members must take part in the ballot and a large majority need to want a strike for it to have credence. A close result like the Brexit referendum would not result in a strike because the Union leaders would say they didn't have a clear mandate to strike.
In the '80's when the coal miners were on strike, they were fighting for their way of life. Thatcher had made many speeches announcing her plans to close the mines down. She was taking away their means to support their families. She was deliberately targeting a section of society.
Fast forward to today and it appears their target is the poor and vulnerable. I am in this group. Those that have no savings, live pay check to pay check. skip meals and go to food banks haven't time, money or resources to challenge this govt. So, the govt. can just ignore them, pretend they don't exist and hope they'll somehow go away. This group of people are not organised - they don't belong to a union. They will need society in general to speak and protest on their behalf.
At the moment, those that need to speak truth to power aren't shouting loud enough and they are being drowned out by the right-wing media who will make excuses for the Tories and indulge in othering to shift the blame. At the moment the 'others' are the French and the EU. Somethings got to give. Truss will be like a rabbit caught in the headlights when it does.
Gove made sure we have some of the worst TU laws in the world, not just Europe. The man is beyond contempt.
i can't get over companies crying over corporation tax . i though but i could be wrong you only paid said tax on profits. so if you invested in your company and staff your profits wouldn't be high and they would wouldn't pay so much corporation tax.
forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows
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Riots in the autumn? on 19:14 - Jul 24 with 1514 views
i can't get over companies crying over corporation tax . i though but i could be wrong you only paid said tax on profits. so if you invested in your company and staff your profits wouldn't be high and they would wouldn't pay so much corporation tax.
It's an old school Tory nonsense lowering corporation tax. They need to lower VAT to control inflation. It's a 100% consumer tax which can be finessed for loads of goods and services both temporarily and permanently. It's utterly ridiculous that it is not finessed regularly in a high inflation economy.
Riots in the autumn? on 19:14 - Jul 24 by TractorWood
It's an old school Tory nonsense lowering corporation tax. They need to lower VAT to control inflation. It's a 100% consumer tax which can be finessed for loads of goods and services both temporarily and permanently. It's utterly ridiculous that it is not finessed regularly in a high inflation economy.
Spot on.
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Riots in the autumn? on 19:51 - Jul 24 with 1432 views
Riots in the autumn? on 17:31 - Jul 24 by Oldsmoker
And good luck finding agency workers who can attend court to defend you when the lawyers are on strike. I think the skilled workers have an edge - their skills. Many Teachers, Nurses and Police have left their professions and the govt., through their actions, have done nothing to address it leaving vacancies that cannot be filled from agencies. There are months/years of training to get a qualified person able to take these jobs.
The unskilled worker, that's another bag of worms. They can be exploited by agencies and businesses. Zero-hour contracts with no holiday pay, sick-pay etc. These people are not in unions and are the lowest paid.
As for locking up Trade Union leaders they would have to pass new laws. I wouldn't put it past them. However, Civil servants have the strongest of all Trade unions so that's a doozy.
The current Trade Union law means a democratic vote from their members must take place. A high percentage of members must take part in the ballot and a large majority need to want a strike for it to have credence. A close result like the Brexit referendum would not result in a strike because the Union leaders would say they didn't have a clear mandate to strike.
In the '80's when the coal miners were on strike, they were fighting for their way of life. Thatcher had made many speeches announcing her plans to close the mines down. She was taking away their means to support their families. She was deliberately targeting a section of society.
Fast forward to today and it appears their target is the poor and vulnerable. I am in this group. Those that have no savings, live pay check to pay check. skip meals and go to food banks haven't time, money or resources to challenge this govt. So, the govt. can just ignore them, pretend they don't exist and hope they'll somehow go away. This group of people are not organised - they don't belong to a union. They will need society in general to speak and protest on their behalf.
At the moment, those that need to speak truth to power aren't shouting loud enough and they are being drowned out by the right-wing media who will make excuses for the Tories and indulge in othering to shift the blame. At the moment the 'others' are the French and the EU. Somethings got to give. Truss will be like a rabbit caught in the headlights when it does.
50% turnout required now for TU votes on ballot action isn’t it? At our place we’ve struggled to hit that and when we do, it’s only just. There seem to be a lot of people in unions for reasons that make no sense to me. Why join one (they’re not cheap) if you aren’t interested in protecting conditions and pay? Seems a bit odd to me anyway.
Riots in the autumn? on 19:51 - Jul 24 by Swansea_Blue
50% turnout required now for TU votes on ballot action isn’t it? At our place we’ve struggled to hit that and when we do, it’s only just. There seem to be a lot of people in unions for reasons that make no sense to me. Why join one (they’re not cheap) if you aren’t interested in protecting conditions and pay? Seems a bit odd to me anyway.
Many are not prepared to forfeit pay by taking strike action. It is not a cheap and easy decision to take.
My answer? Redisribute the wealth created by the much lauded capitalism more equitably. As time goes by, we have seen that all our system does is increase the proportion of wealth owned at the top end. Surely a fatal flaw?
All the system does?! Lol, that’s absolute nonsense.
Countries that have introduced free market ideas have lifted millions out of poverty and allowed its people to live far more free.
To pretend that all the ultra wealthy folks never generate opportunity for others or invest their money on bettering society is also false. The movements of money and goods provide opportunities throughout. Does it go in cycles and is the flow of money too top heavy? Yes, sure but it’s better than whatever socialist utopia half of TWTD seems to believe in.
Companies need to pay a fair wage and not dodge their own tax responsibilities but this being portrayed as all the evils of capitalism is rather ridiculous when you look back historically.
Do you really trust your government (or any government) to spend high taxes on making your life better anyway? They do a good enough job screwing everything else up and they’re all in it for power, left, right or otherwise.
All the best things in life, technological advancements and things you use every day are products of the free market and private companies. I’d rather entrepreneurs continue to spend their own billions creating opportunity and products that improve quality of life.
All the system does?! Lol, that’s absolute nonsense.
Countries that have introduced free market ideas have lifted millions out of poverty and allowed its people to live far more free.
To pretend that all the ultra wealthy folks never generate opportunity for others or invest their money on bettering society is also false. The movements of money and goods provide opportunities throughout. Does it go in cycles and is the flow of money too top heavy? Yes, sure but it’s better than whatever socialist utopia half of TWTD seems to believe in.
Companies need to pay a fair wage and not dodge their own tax responsibilities but this being portrayed as all the evils of capitalism is rather ridiculous when you look back historically.
Do you really trust your government (or any government) to spend high taxes on making your life better anyway? They do a good enough job screwing everything else up and they’re all in it for power, left, right or otherwise.
All the best things in life, technological advancements and things you use every day are products of the free market and private companies. I’d rather entrepreneurs continue to spend their own billions creating opportunity and products that improve quality of life.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2022 4:39]
[Redacted]
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Riots in the autumn? on 07:47 - Jul 25 with 1083 views
All the system does?! Lol, that’s absolute nonsense.
Countries that have introduced free market ideas have lifted millions out of poverty and allowed its people to live far more free.
To pretend that all the ultra wealthy folks never generate opportunity for others or invest their money on bettering society is also false. The movements of money and goods provide opportunities throughout. Does it go in cycles and is the flow of money too top heavy? Yes, sure but it’s better than whatever socialist utopia half of TWTD seems to believe in.
Companies need to pay a fair wage and not dodge their own tax responsibilities but this being portrayed as all the evils of capitalism is rather ridiculous when you look back historically.
Do you really trust your government (or any government) to spend high taxes on making your life better anyway? They do a good enough job screwing everything else up and they’re all in it for power, left, right or otherwise.
All the best things in life, technological advancements and things you use every day are products of the free market and private companies. I’d rather entrepreneurs continue to spend their own billions creating opportunity and products that improve quality of life.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2022 4:39]
You misspelt gubberment!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
I am torn between wanting a Government to enact policies like she proposes and the fact that only a party in power can do so. There was no way the establishment was going to allow the electorate to put Corbyn's government in power.
Yes. That cautious approach is protecting businesses and vested interests not people but that's been a largely fruitless and one-way relationship for decades now. And it's perpetuating the myth that the system (and its supporting political class) is working for us rather than itself/themselves.
Agree with your last point. Similarly the establishment knows that Starmer and the Labour right will tinker around the edges at worst and always support the establishment so what they' *can* do in power is a pretty academic hypothetical rather than what will happen.
They're allowed to break any social democratic pledges and have the Forde report ignored within days because at the heart of the Starmer offering there is effectively zero opposition and threat to the status quo.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Riots in the autumn? on 08:57 - Jul 25 with 1019 views
Riots in the autumn? on 09:00 - Jul 25 by NthQldITFC
Yes, I suspect you do.
Depressingly simplistic opposition to higher taxes, wealth redistribution and greater social and economic investment for the benefit of all.
In Zapers' world I'm sure he's at a loss to explain why UK's low taxation/low spend cycle has led to a widening of inequalities, a structurally weak economy and a massive increase in public debt. While wages remain stagnant and food bank usage increases.
I suppose as long as his "betters" in the top 1% are creaming off that waste and telling him to vote Tory or another neoliberal option then he'll keep nodding along. Who knows? Maybe he's one of the lucky ones also profiting off the running down of society and the increase in poverty.
Pronouns: He/Him
3
Riots in the autumn? on 09:28 - Jul 25 with 927 views
Riots in the autumn? on 09:13 - Jul 25 by Darth_Koont
Depressingly simplistic opposition to higher taxes, wealth redistribution and greater social and economic investment for the benefit of all.
In Zapers' world I'm sure he's at a loss to explain why UK's low taxation/low spend cycle has led to a widening of inequalities, a structurally weak economy and a massive increase in public debt. While wages remain stagnant and food bank usage increases.
I suppose as long as his "betters" in the top 1% are creaming off that waste and telling him to vote Tory or another neoliberal option then he'll keep nodding along. Who knows? Maybe he's one of the lucky ones also profiting off the running down of society and the increase in poverty.
In fairness, won't a lot of us be 'profiting off the running down of society and the increase in poverty', at least indirectly?
Even people working in the public or not-for-profit sectors might be doing that in some way.
I spose this is another argument for systematic change though - fair dos - I just think we're all a little complicit, maybe because we have to be to survive.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Riots in the autumn? on 09:28 - Jul 25 by giant_stow
In fairness, won't a lot of us be 'profiting off the running down of society and the increase in poverty', at least indirectly?
Even people working in the public or not-for-profit sectors might be doing that in some way.
I spose this is another argument for systematic change though - fair dos - I just think we're all a little complicit, maybe because we have to be to survive.
We're only complicit if we think the system shouldn't be changed towards a more redistributive, fairer and ultimately more sustainable and value-creating model.
Pronouns: He/Him
0
Riots in the autumn? on 09:41 - Jul 25 with 897 views
Whilst I agree that more tax is needed - surely the burden needs to be carried by business. With tax and NI, we are not out of line with most of Europe in personal taxation, we are about mid-tier similar to Germany. How do you propose people can afford massive income tax hikes with a cost of living crisis?
0
Riots in the autumn? on 09:52 - Jul 25 with 893 views
All the system does?! Lol, that’s absolute nonsense.
Countries that have introduced free market ideas have lifted millions out of poverty and allowed its people to live far more free.
To pretend that all the ultra wealthy folks never generate opportunity for others or invest their money on bettering society is also false. The movements of money and goods provide opportunities throughout. Does it go in cycles and is the flow of money too top heavy? Yes, sure but it’s better than whatever socialist utopia half of TWTD seems to believe in.
Companies need to pay a fair wage and not dodge their own tax responsibilities but this being portrayed as all the evils of capitalism is rather ridiculous when you look back historically.
Do you really trust your government (or any government) to spend high taxes on making your life better anyway? They do a good enough job screwing everything else up and they’re all in it for power, left, right or otherwise.
All the best things in life, technological advancements and things you use every day are products of the free market and private companies. I’d rather entrepreneurs continue to spend their own billions creating opportunity and products that improve quality of life.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2022 4:39]
Not sure I need to respond to this as I could not do any better than Victorywillhappen's. As someone said to you yesterday "You're in deep!" with your belief that the market provides all the answers and good luck to you. I just happen to disagree.
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