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or is this an overreaction. Starting to get scary now especially with no end in sight. I can't see the people sitting on their hands hoping it rides itself out.
2
Riots in the autumn? on 08:09 - Jul 24 with 1418 views
Look at the debt ratio to GDP In 2008 compared to now after Covid, so there’s no lifeboat this time. That said there isn’t the same amount of bad personal debt out there either. Despite horrible practices in the financial system back then, they really had no choice but to bail out AIG in the end. Considering how bad things got in 2008, the decade that followed shows that the corporate capitalism can fairly quickly rebound and provide opportunity and growth.
Is anyone particularly surprised about all this now though? Governments have been printing money for the best part of two years and paying people who were unable to work during restrictions. You can’t just turn the tap off and lights back on all of a sudden everything goes back to normal.
Elements of the economy became very over stimulated during Covid, at least over here, the fed are happy to crash assets as inflation just hit a ridiculous 9%. The stock market is a pretty clear example and early indicator of what’s going on.
I’m curious to see when the job market will start taking hits. For the last five years start up companies have been paying young grads ridiculous wages when they weren’t making any money themselves. Speculative investing isn’t going to happen with these interests rates, so I do think we will see companies turn to a profit and not growth mindset. A lot of the pandemic darlings are already annoucing layoffs.
Back to the original point, in terms of energy costs in Europe, it’s not just Britain facing these issues, at least from my understanding and yes the UK is due for a bit of old fashioned unrest.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2022 3:32]
People at quick to forget that it’s capitalism that has given hundreds of millions of people worldwide a route out of poverty, individual rights and comes hand in hand with democracy.
0
Riots in the autumn? on 08:21 - Jul 24 with 1411 views
Riots in the autumn? on 07:56 - Jul 24 by EdwardStone
Interesting post
I was thinking something similar; popular dissatifaction coupled with warm summer evenings
Is there any correlation between riots and the World Cup/ Euro timings? Is there less incentive to riot if England are doing well in the football?
There's an American study that correlated sports teams fortunes with civil unrest and I can't remember the exact details, but it's often used to prop up different observations like burglaries go down during a major final etc.
There has been an ongoing pattern of civil unrest every 10-12 years (approximately) and the last time we saw anything significant was 2011 so we’re are certainly due in the very near future
I took part in the 2011 anti cuts ‘March for the Alternative’ protest in London. The estimated attendance was 250-500k. From wiki:
‘Speaking on the BBC Radio 4 show Today, the Secretary of State for Education, Michael Gove, acknowledged the concerns of the demonstrators, but defended the implementation of the cuts, stating that "we have to take steps to bring the public finances back into balance’.
Yeah, right Mr Gove. Just like the rest of them, Gove has never acknowledged the concerns of anybody ? The policy was a bogus ideological one based on hatreds, not on economics. And is this country in a better way in any shape or form 11 years on? No.
The systematic use of the wrecking ball for everything in the 11 years since shows that the march aims were right. It’s a shame it wasn’t repeated. If it is going forward I’ll support it.
5
Riots in the autumn? on 08:46 - Jul 24 with 1371 views
There's an American study that correlated sports teams fortunes with civil unrest and I can't remember the exact details, but it's often used to prop up different observations like burglaries go down during a major final etc.
The Argentine junta used the 78 world cup to placate the masses. As a tactic it worked, albeit only for a few years. They later invaded the Falklands (to change their unpopularity) which ultimately led to their downfall.
Riots in the autumn? on 19:47 - Jul 23 by NthQldITFC
I think that our 'Western' societies exist on a very thin veneer of law and order, with the vast bulk of the electorate pacified and anaesthetised by flaccid consumerism, TV and lately social media.
Meanwhile greedy, manipulative egomaniacs find more and more sophisticated ways to pile up 'wealth' that they don't have anything to do with once they've w*nked themselves silly about acquiring it in the first place.
On a finite planet this logically has to break at some point, just as with our environmental ticking time bomb, and whilst we probably no longer have any realistic chance of defusing the latter, we all know that it would theoretically be possible to redistribute that wealth much more fairly and evenly, at least in the short term before AGW does for us. If this doesn't happen voluntarily, I suspect those riots and worse will occur, and fairly soon.
If not for this energy crisis this winter, then perhaps for water or food somewhere in the world. But most of us will go on pretending that technology or the free market will fix everything.
I read that back, and it sounds like some doom and gloom nut to me, but it really is all pretty mainstream, reputable opinion now, isn't it? We have to wake up in so many ways, and now.
Think it was Karĺ Marx who observed religion was the opium of the masses, when explaining it was a barrier to revolution. I think your post shows how religion has been replaced by other activities that perform the same role in maintaining the status quo.
The other thing is that we have enriched just enough people and enslaved a load too. You want to risk your job/career ? Many don't/won't for valid reasons.
And as I have said many times, we have no right to protest in the Uk any more. None. We have the right to ask the police permission to protest who will thus choose how, where and when you can protest
I don't see the appetite for widespread social disorder. Could be wrong and we'll see. I do see a change of govt as ultimately it is peoples wealth that determines how many vote.
Riots in the autumn? on 08:09 - Jul 24 by balcombeblue
People at quick to forget that it’s capitalism that has given hundreds of millions of people worldwide a route out of poverty, individual rights and comes hand in hand with democracy.
Riots in the autumn? on 09:00 - Jul 24 by bluelagos
Think it was Karĺ Marx who observed religion was the opium of the masses, when explaining it was a barrier to revolution. I think your post shows how religion has been replaced by other activities that perform the same role in maintaining the status quo.
The other thing is that we have enriched just enough people and enslaved a load too. You want to risk your job/career ? Many don't/won't for valid reasons.
And as I have said many times, we have no right to protest in the Uk any more. None. We have the right to ask the police permission to protest who will thus choose how, where and when you can protest
I don't see the appetite for widespread social disorder. Could be wrong and we'll see. I do see a change of govt as ultimately it is peoples wealth that determines how many vote.
[Redacted]
0
Riots in the autumn? on 09:44 - Jul 24 with 1226 views
Riots in the autumn? on 19:47 - Jul 23 by NthQldITFC
I think that our 'Western' societies exist on a very thin veneer of law and order, with the vast bulk of the electorate pacified and anaesthetised by flaccid consumerism, TV and lately social media.
Meanwhile greedy, manipulative egomaniacs find more and more sophisticated ways to pile up 'wealth' that they don't have anything to do with once they've w*nked themselves silly about acquiring it in the first place.
On a finite planet this logically has to break at some point, just as with our environmental ticking time bomb, and whilst we probably no longer have any realistic chance of defusing the latter, we all know that it would theoretically be possible to redistribute that wealth much more fairly and evenly, at least in the short term before AGW does for us. If this doesn't happen voluntarily, I suspect those riots and worse will occur, and fairly soon.
If not for this energy crisis this winter, then perhaps for water or food somewhere in the world. But most of us will go on pretending that technology or the free market will fix everything.
I read that back, and it sounds like some doom and gloom nut to me, but it really is all pretty mainstream, reputable opinion now, isn't it? We have to wake up in so many ways, and now.
The question always to ask is: if we're the world's fifth largest economy, where is all the money...?
Look at the debt ratio to GDP In 2008 compared to now after Covid, so there’s no lifeboat this time. That said there isn’t the same amount of bad personal debt out there either. Despite horrible practices in the financial system back then, they really had no choice but to bail out AIG in the end. Considering how bad things got in 2008, the decade that followed shows that the corporate capitalism can fairly quickly rebound and provide opportunity and growth.
Is anyone particularly surprised about all this now though? Governments have been printing money for the best part of two years and paying people who were unable to work during restrictions. You can’t just turn the tap off and lights back on all of a sudden everything goes back to normal.
Elements of the economy became very over stimulated during Covid, at least over here, the fed are happy to crash assets as inflation just hit a ridiculous 9%. The stock market is a pretty clear example and early indicator of what’s going on.
I’m curious to see when the job market will start taking hits. For the last five years start up companies have been paying young grads ridiculous wages when they weren’t making any money themselves. Speculative investing isn’t going to happen with these interests rates, so I do think we will see companies turn to a profit and not growth mindset. A lot of the pandemic darlings are already annoucing layoffs.
Back to the original point, in terms of energy costs in Europe, it’s not just Britain facing these issues, at least from my understanding and yes the UK is due for a bit of old fashioned unrest.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2022 3:32]
My answer? Redisribute the wealth created by the much lauded capitalism more equitably. As time goes by, we have seen that all our system does is increase the proportion of wealth owned at the top end. Surely a fatal flaw?
bluescouser
3
Riots in the autumn? on 09:48 - Jul 24 with 1214 views
Riots in the autumn? on 20:33 - Jul 23 by gtsb1966
So can I to be honest. Am I correct in thinking that if a family have young children the utility companies can't cut them off.
Thats only water that is legally protected. With other utilities, they have to try and work with the family, but ultimately, they can take a last resort of cutting supply.
Look at the debt ratio to GDP In 2008 compared to now after Covid, so there’s no lifeboat this time. That said there isn’t the same amount of bad personal debt out there either. Despite horrible practices in the financial system back then, they really had no choice but to bail out AIG in the end. Considering how bad things got in 2008, the decade that followed shows that the corporate capitalism can fairly quickly rebound and provide opportunity and growth.
Is anyone particularly surprised about all this now though? Governments have been printing money for the best part of two years and paying people who were unable to work during restrictions. You can’t just turn the tap off and lights back on all of a sudden everything goes back to normal.
Elements of the economy became very over stimulated during Covid, at least over here, the fed are happy to crash assets as inflation just hit a ridiculous 9%. The stock market is a pretty clear example and early indicator of what’s going on.
I’m curious to see when the job market will start taking hits. For the last five years start up companies have been paying young grads ridiculous wages when they weren’t making any money themselves. Speculative investing isn’t going to happen with these interests rates, so I do think we will see companies turn to a profit and not growth mindset. A lot of the pandemic darlings are already annoucing layoffs.
Back to the original point, in terms of energy costs in Europe, it’s not just Britain facing these issues, at least from my understanding and yes the UK is due for a bit of old fashioned unrest.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2022 3:32]
Lol....you're in deep! "Considering how bad things got in 2008, the decade that followed shows that the corporate capitalism can fairly quickly rebound and provide opportunity and growth."
We had a zombie economy before and a zombie economy after the financial crisis. If I was a corporate capitalist milking QE money via share buy back bonuses then I could pretend capitalism was great too.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Riots in the autumn? on 09:00 - Jul 24 by bluelagos
Think it was Karĺ Marx who observed religion was the opium of the masses, when explaining it was a barrier to revolution. I think your post shows how religion has been replaced by other activities that perform the same role in maintaining the status quo.
The other thing is that we have enriched just enough people and enslaved a load too. You want to risk your job/career ? Many don't/won't for valid reasons.
And as I have said many times, we have no right to protest in the Uk any more. None. We have the right to ask the police permission to protest who will thus choose how, where and when you can protest
I don't see the appetite for widespread social disorder. Could be wrong and we'll see. I do see a change of govt as ultimately it is peoples wealth that determines how many vote.
Your first sentence of your last paragraph....nor do I. Come the autumn though when it starts to get dark and cold and people are at their wits end with worry I'm not so sure. It only takes one protest to get nasty and the dominoes will fall.
0
Riots in the autumn? on 10:00 - Jul 24 with 1194 views
Never has our country been in need of a change of government like it is now, we all have a part to play in ensuring this happens, if not for us then for the generations to follow.
2
Riots in the autumn? on 10:00 - Jul 24 with 1186 views
Riots in the autumn? on 09:55 - Jul 24 by gtsb1966
Your first sentence of your last paragraph....nor do I. Come the autumn though when it starts to get dark and cold and people are at their wits end with worry I'm not so sure. It only takes one protest to get nasty and the dominoes will fall.
Just remember to turn phone tracking off first!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Underlying problems like poverty most criminally involving 4 million children, a decades-long housing crisis, a young/old wealth divide that is now out of control, low productivity, stagnant wages, growth based around financial services/financialisation rather than a diverse advanced economy, regional inequality, racial inequality, the self-sabotage of Brexit and so on. All this has been ignored or insufficiently tweaked for way too long
We're in a weak position politically, socially and economically even before the current global pressures of pandemic, war, fuel supply issues and inflation. And ridiculously far from being able to deal with the long-term challenges that we need to be facing proactively like climate change, the impact of AI and automation, aging populations etc
That's the state of play. Yet we have zero hope or solutions coming our political system and media. In fact, I think they're probably the community most comfortable with the status quo and least motivated for it to change as it's against their own self-interest.
People made the mistake before by blaming the EU and immigrants for the stuff that wasn't working in the UK. Let's not do it again by blaming the left/unions/BLM/woke or whatever fantasy the political class come up with. As a group they need to accept their past mistakes and as individuals they need to be coming up with real solutions rather than meaningless soundbites and cheap, lazy bribes to their relatively comfortable and self-satisfied supporters and fan boys in the media and the public.
Weak establishment politics will just lead to a worsening of underlying problems, an increase in disillusionment and disenfranchisement, and unnecessary human suffering. And literally rolls out the red carpet for right-wing populism and dangerous ideologies to fill the gap.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2022 10:21]
Pronouns: He/Him
5
Riots in the autumn? on 10:22 - Jul 24 with 1145 views
Riots in the autumn? on 22:19 - Jul 23 by Oldsmoker
This Tory government is preparing for this very scenario. Remember that they passed the 'Police and Crime Bill' and that gave police forces the power to stop protests. They've just passed a bill to allow agency workers to take strikers jobs. Under EU law this was illegal. It was passed as a SI (statutory Instrument) which means it was never debated in Parliament. They will use SI to pass other legislation under the radar and the right-wing media won't publicise it. The right-wing media has been 'othering' for years and they will demonise anyone who is disobedient in not paying their bills. I believe Martin Lewis is right when he says that winter/xmas will be decision time for millions of people. Will the soundbite be 'We must dissent'?
I am not certain but I think you have this wrong. The bill makes it more difficult to protest but does not prevent people from doing so, which I appreciate is much the same thing.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Riots in the autumn? on 19:47 - Jul 23 by NthQldITFC
I think that our 'Western' societies exist on a very thin veneer of law and order, with the vast bulk of the electorate pacified and anaesthetised by flaccid consumerism, TV and lately social media.
Meanwhile greedy, manipulative egomaniacs find more and more sophisticated ways to pile up 'wealth' that they don't have anything to do with once they've w*nked themselves silly about acquiring it in the first place.
On a finite planet this logically has to break at some point, just as with our environmental ticking time bomb, and whilst we probably no longer have any realistic chance of defusing the latter, we all know that it would theoretically be possible to redistribute that wealth much more fairly and evenly, at least in the short term before AGW does for us. If this doesn't happen voluntarily, I suspect those riots and worse will occur, and fairly soon.
If not for this energy crisis this winter, then perhaps for water or food somewhere in the world. But most of us will go on pretending that technology or the free market will fix everything.
I read that back, and it sounds like some doom and gloom nut to me, but it really is all pretty mainstream, reputable opinion now, isn't it? We have to wake up in so many ways, and now.
Excellent post- And agree entirely.
Your view is the complete opposite of the usual navel-gazing and politicking that seemingly blinds us to the reality of our situation in the UK and globally.
Pronouns: He/Him
0
Riots in the autumn? on 10:48 - Jul 24 with 1108 views
My answer? Redisribute the wealth created by the much lauded capitalism more equitably. As time goes by, we have seen that all our system does is increase the proportion of wealth owned at the top end. Surely a fatal flaw?
Re nationalisation of the utilities industries should be the first step, privatisation has only benefited the shareholders and cast millions into fuel poverty, as a civilised society we cannot morally allow this to continue. I know there will be some who want to point out the benefits of privatisation but the draw backs out weigh the benefits massively. We seem to be heading back to 1822 instead of 2022.
4
Riots in the autumn? on 11:25 - Jul 24 with 1056 views
People *should* be rioting against this government but it won't happen — too many of the population have become fattened and dumb, which funnily enough is exactly how the Tories want it.
Riots in the autumn? on 10:22 - Jul 24 by chicoazul
I am not certain but I think you have this wrong. The bill makes it more difficult to protest but does not prevent people from doing so, which I appreciate is much the same thing.
Congrats on splitting a hair.
The Police and Crime bill gives Police forces the authority to stop protests if they choose to do so. Some Police forces may be quite happy to allow protests to be held and others may be very unhappy.
It's like the Brexit bill that has just had its 3rd reading. It gives the government permission to break international law re the NI protocol but they might not use it.
Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
Re nationalisation of the utilities industries should be the first step, privatisation has only benefited the shareholders and cast millions into fuel poverty, as a civilised society we cannot morally allow this to continue. I know there will be some who want to point out the benefits of privatisation but the draw backs out weigh the benefits massively. We seem to be heading back to 1822 instead of 2022.
Starmer has broken his pledge on nationalisation. Him and Reeves have completely moved away from it.
And yet it’s not just good sense to avoid what you are rightly talking about but also popular with the electorate.
Problem is that with nationalisation politicians, lobbyists and donors etc. don’t get their regular payout.
Pronouns: He/Him
0
Riots in the autumn? on 14:19 - Jul 24 with 858 views
Riots in the autumn? on 08:46 - Jul 24 by bluelagos
The Argentine junta used the 78 world cup to placate the masses. As a tactic it worked, albeit only for a few years. They later invaded the Falklands (to change their unpopularity) which ultimately led to their downfall.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2022 9:01]
They did very much so. There's also the anecdote about Pele crying in the changing rooms after winning a WC because he and his family were "safe" now. Not sure how apocryphal that is without checking.
Certainly the way in which 2012 was capitalised on and sewn into nationalism by some is maybe the closest we've got, but authoritarian regimes do love to link sporting dominance to political advantage.
Riots in the autumn? on 12:15 - Jul 24 by Darth_Koont
Starmer has broken his pledge on nationalisation. Him and Reeves have completely moved away from it.
And yet it’s not just good sense to avoid what you are rightly talking about but also popular with the electorate.
Problem is that with nationalisation politicians, lobbyists and donors etc. don’t get their regular payout.
Even a Tory grandee like Harold McMillan pleaded with her not to sell off the family silver but the public lapped it up, perversley buying shares in something they already owned! Popular capitalism. Just wonder how concentrated in the hands of a few those profitable shares are now? Same with the stock of public housing sold to popular acclaim - much of which sits in the hands of private landlords now. Shrug my shoulders, them's the breaks in a game played with a perpetually loaded deck!
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