| Rejoining the EU 17:26 - Oct 16 with 8846 views | Churchman |
For the first time, I have noticed somebody has written the words that dare not be spoken
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/16/heres-my-plan-for-growth-liz-tr
For a boost to the economy, growth and all that stuff it’s an obvious thing to do. It’s six years since the farcical vote - the same length of time as WW2. Surely it’s time to say the experiment has failed and we need to move on.
So what’s to lose given Brixit has not offered one single benefit and is unlikely to do so? Pride? An election? Pride doesn’t pay mortgages or put food on the table. Winning an election is something the tories won’t be doing for a generation.
I hope it’s something Starmer is considering. It’s a logical thing to do. |  | | |  |
| Rejoining the EU on 20:58 - Oct 16 with 1132 views | jeera |
| Rejoining the EU on 19:41 - Oct 16 by gazzer1999 |
My real hope is for young people get to learn a trade and get a job which will serve them for life and not be undercut as has been happening for the last 40 years. |
We weren't allowed to train people whilst part of EU membership?
Well, you learn something new every day.
You're reaching all over the place with your faux concerns.
But don't let that stop you making stuff up to support your own bigotry. |  |
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| Rejoining the EU on 21:00 - Oct 16 with 1121 views | gazzer1999 |
| Rejoining the EU on 20:49 - Oct 16 by HARRY10 |
So stating something obvious excuses your support of all the harm your lot have caused ?
Cuts to the school budget, cuts to training programmes and causing the UK to leave the Erasmus scheme.
Youngsters now stopped from studying abroad. School exchange trips massively reduced, both ways.
Remind us who removed nurses bursaries.................your lot, thats who |
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-trouble-with-erasmus-is-not-just-the-cos |  | | |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:02 - Oct 16 with 1125 views | jeera |
You haven't even read that yourself have you?
It doesn't imply what you think it does.
It does highlight inequality in society though which is why so many working class miss out, which is not the fault of the scheme itself. | |
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| Rejoining the EU on 21:03 - Oct 16 with 1120 views | gazzer1999 |
| Rejoining the EU on 20:58 - Oct 16 by jeera |
We weren't allowed to train people whilst part of EU membership?
Well, you learn something new every day.
You're reaching all over the place with your faux concerns.
But don't let that stop you making stuff up to support your own bigotry. |
Another that should have been on the blocked list.
Sounds like you're the bigot to me, another typical response from another usual suspect. | | | |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:06 - Oct 16 with 1114 views | BlueBadger |
| Rejoining the EU on 20:57 - Oct 16 by gazzer1999 |
No argument with you Badger but there is a bigger picture as to why companies choose to employ someone from around the world rather than invest in training young people to be the next generation of workers. It is a big problem that if not addressed will consign a whole generation to the employment waste land. I will continue to stand up for the future employment of young people whatever their background. |
The main reason companies recruit from overseas is a lack of skilled people locally though.
It is generally expensive, complicated and likely to involve a (sometimes lengthy) period of adaptation to employ overseas workers.
Overseas nurses, for example, generally need a 'adaptation' period of around 6 months before they get their PIN number. And they may not perform to the same level as a locally trained one for an extended period beyond that.
Significant numbers will also move on very quickly as well - either back home ro somewhere else. Large numbers of Filipino nurses use the UK as a stepping stone to US registration.
So, we're back to the problem being largely placed at the foot of the UK government, not foreigners. [Post edited 16 Oct 2022 21:11]
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| Rejoining the EU on 21:08 - Oct 16 with 1094 views | MattinLondon |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:03 - Oct 16 by gazzer1999 |
Another that should have been on the blocked list.
Sounds like you're the bigot to me, another typical response from another usual suspect. |
Calling jeera a bigot is complete out-of-order. I don’t the chap in real life but he frequently posts threads (or adds to them) which highlight bigotry and oppression. If you’re any sort of man with decency then you’ll apologise for that remark. |  | | |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:09 - Oct 16 with 1089 views | jeera |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:03 - Oct 16 by gazzer1999 |
Another that should have been on the blocked list.
Sounds like you're the bigot to me, another typical response from another usual suspect. |
Christ alive.
That doesn't even make any sense. | |
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| Rejoining the EU on 21:11 - Oct 16 with 1085 views | jeera |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:08 - Oct 16 by MattinLondon |
Calling jeera a bigot is complete out-of-order. I don’t the chap in real life but he frequently posts threads (or adds to them) which highlight bigotry and oppression. If you’re any sort of man with decency then you’ll apologise for that remark. |
He likes the sound of the word by the look of it.
He's seen other people use it and thought it sounded good I suppose. | |
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| Rejoining the EU on 21:12 - Oct 16 with 1078 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Rejoining the EU on 20:28 - Oct 16 by HARRY10 |
Workers of the world unite.... or not as it would seem
And your guff has a very strong whiff of nationalism about it - no wonder you are a leaver |
Harry if you want to hum The International while supporting institutions whose main concern is enabling the free movement of global capital and not ensuring proper living wages for working people then go ahead.
The Emperors (EU and national) have no clothes. |  |
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| Rejoining the EU on 21:13 - Oct 16 with 1070 views | XYZ |
| Rejoining the EU on 19:37 - Oct 16 by gazzer1999 |
I think we joined a common market not what is currently in existence. |
Edward Heath made it clear pre-entry that there was an element of political union involved. |  | | |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:18 - Oct 16 with 1066 views | jeera |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:12 - Oct 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Harry if you want to hum The International while supporting institutions whose main concern is enabling the free movement of global capital and not ensuring proper living wages for working people then go ahead.
The Emperors (EU and national) have no clothes. |
We're also talking about opportunities for normal people here you know.
Normal folk, not just the elite as matey on this thread would have people believe. | |
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| Rejoining the EU on 21:20 - Oct 16 with 1055 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Rejoining the EU on 20:57 - Oct 16 by gazzer1999 |
No argument with you Badger but there is a bigger picture as to why companies choose to employ someone from around the world rather than invest in training young people to be the next generation of workers. It is a big problem that if not addressed will consign a whole generation to the employment waste land. I will continue to stand up for the future employment of young people whatever their background. |
It's the markets Gazzer, the markets....all hail! | |
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| Rejoining the EU on 21:20 - Oct 16 with 1053 views | XYZ |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:03 - Oct 16 by gazzer1999 |
Another that should have been on the blocked list.
Sounds like you're the bigot to me, another typical response from another usual suspect. |
What's your view on the "cancel culture"? | | | |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:26 - Oct 16 with 1043 views | jeera |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:20 - Oct 16 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It's the markets Gazzer, the markets....all hail! |
You never seem to offer anything on this stuff other than some basic mud-slinging.
I have not seen anyone you aim your daft comments at speak out in favour of capitalism the way you make out. Most believe there must be a better way.
However, whilst we are in this place; (think environment protection for a start as it's a subject you claim to care about), we were better off being in an organisation in which we had a voice and a vote to make positive changes.
This constant anti-everything act whilst contributing nothing yourself is tiresome.
It's almost as though you too know you voted for a car crash but just can't admit it. | |
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| Rejoining the EU on 21:36 - Oct 16 with 1026 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:26 - Oct 16 by jeera |
You never seem to offer anything on this stuff other than some basic mud-slinging.
I have not seen anyone you aim your daft comments at speak out in favour of capitalism the way you make out. Most believe there must be a better way.
However, whilst we are in this place; (think environment protection for a start as it's a subject you claim to care about), we were better off being in an organisation in which we had a voice and a vote to make positive changes.
This constant anti-everything act whilst contributing nothing yourself is tiresome.
It's almost as though you too know you voted for a car crash but just can't admit it. |
Why do you imagine that my comments are aimed at individuals on here when they are just my general observations on the ultimate raison d'être of the EU. My belief is that the institution is incapable of fundamental reform and thus a hindrance to the "better way" that you refer to.
When Harry or whoever from wherever on the political spectrum gets all superior and condescending then I reserve the right to call it out. | |
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| Rejoining the EU on 22:33 - Oct 16 with 991 views | factual_blue |
| Rejoining the EU on 18:09 - Oct 16 by Oldsmoker |
Good grief.
Brexit was meant to take us back to the old days - when Britain was Great.
Just after the war we were impoverished.
Families were starving and having to wait forever to get decent health care.
No-one could afford petrol.
Food was rationed and the shelves were empty.
Brexit has delivered in spades - why is everyone complaining? |
The brexit dunderheads don't realise that Britain was declining from about 1870 onwards. If they read some of The Books With Big Words In that might help them understand.
But they won't - those books won't have enough pictures of red-coated British soldiers machine-gunning spear-wielding piccaninnies. |  |
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| Rejoining the EU on 22:49 - Oct 16 with 964 views | XYZ |
| Rejoining the EU on 22:33 - Oct 16 by factual_blue |
The brexit dunderheads don't realise that Britain was declining from about 1870 onwards. If they read some of The Books With Big Words In that might help them understand.
But they won't - those books won't have enough pictures of red-coated British soldiers machine-gunning spear-wielding piccaninnies. |
The great irony of Brexit.
Joining the EU (yeah, I know, the "Common Market" blah, blah, blah) and remaining (yay!) in it enabled the UK to retain its "soft power" on the global stage and to avoid the economic crash bang wallop that would destroy the mythical fantasies of the brexiteer types.
That's why the UK joined in the first place (see "The Sick Man of Europe").
They bit off the hand that fed and guess what? Their Union Jack pants are around their ankles and the world has its palm over its face.
The faux-socialist brexiteers who exit conversations when the living standard differences for ordinary people are set out for them (again - see "Project Fear") are shown up for what they are. ("You love Markets, you do.")
Hopefully this nonsensical historical embarrassment can be reversed sooner rather than later. | | | |
| Rejoining the EU on 23:11 - Oct 16 with 936 views | Coastalblue |
| Rejoining the EU on 22:33 - Oct 16 by factual_blue |
The brexit dunderheads don't realise that Britain was declining from about 1870 onwards. If they read some of The Books With Big Words In that might help them understand.
But they won't - those books won't have enough pictures of red-coated British soldiers machine-gunning spear-wielding piccaninnies. |
Great Britain innit, I mean we're great, we don't need all them mucky foreigners, I mean we're great. It's in our name innit. |  |
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| Rejoining the EU on 23:26 - Oct 16 with 930 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Rejoining the EU on 22:49 - Oct 16 by XYZ |
The great irony of Brexit.
Joining the EU (yeah, I know, the "Common Market" blah, blah, blah) and remaining (yay!) in it enabled the UK to retain its "soft power" on the global stage and to avoid the economic crash bang wallop that would destroy the mythical fantasies of the brexiteer types.
That's why the UK joined in the first place (see "The Sick Man of Europe").
They bit off the hand that fed and guess what? Their Union Jack pants are around their ankles and the world has its palm over its face.
The faux-socialist brexiteers who exit conversations when the living standard differences for ordinary people are set out for them (again - see "Project Fear") are shown up for what they are. ("You love Markets, you do.")
Hopefully this nonsensical historical embarrassment can be reversed sooner rather than later. |
Go on then, point out the living standard differences that are causing the ongoing political drift to the right in the European lands of milk,and honey. It must be because they never had it so good.
Here are the thoughts of some faux socialists.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/lexit-looking-forwards-not-backwards/ | |
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| Rejoining the EU on 00:22 - Oct 17 with 911 views | XYZ |
Oh dear. That article is from 2017, what are their current thoughts?
Living standard differences? I don't know, maybe read some of the latest economic figures? Start with Germany's and the UK's GDP in 2016 (just after the publishing of the article you claim supports your view, lol) compared to 2021.
Still, thanks for proving the point I was making - a faux socialist outs himself.
Honestly ... being part of the EU saved numpties like you from making fools of yourselves on the internet - you could go on and on about leaving being better for the great socialist future without being proven to be immature idiots - then it happened and here we are.
Own it.
The rich brexiters have got richer off your backs by playing the Markets you profess to hate, but you voted for them to do that.
You made that happen.
The poor Brexiters? Well, if they're old then they might die from the cold this winter or commit suicide because they don't know how they'll pay their bills. The younger ones? Well, their kids won't be properly fed and will suffer lifelong health and educational disadvantages as a result.
You made that happen.
Own it.
£100 billion a year taken from the poor people of the UK.
Lives ruined by you. Own it. | | | |
| Rejoining the EU on 06:21 - Oct 17 with 860 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Rejoining the EU on 00:22 - Oct 17 by XYZ |
Oh dear. That article is from 2017, what are their current thoughts?
Living standard differences? I don't know, maybe read some of the latest economic figures? Start with Germany's and the UK's GDP in 2016 (just after the publishing of the article you claim supports your view, lol) compared to 2021.
Still, thanks for proving the point I was making - a faux socialist outs himself.
Honestly ... being part of the EU saved numpties like you from making fools of yourselves on the internet - you could go on and on about leaving being better for the great socialist future without being proven to be immature idiots - then it happened and here we are.
Own it.
The rich brexiters have got richer off your backs by playing the Markets you profess to hate, but you voted for them to do that.
You made that happen.
The poor Brexiters? Well, if they're old then they might die from the cold this winter or commit suicide because they don't know how they'll pay their bills. The younger ones? Well, their kids won't be properly fed and will suffer lifelong health and educational disadvantages as a result.
You made that happen.
Own it.
£100 billion a year taken from the poor people of the UK.
Lives ruined by you. Own it. |
That moment when you wake up to a string of random, shouty words....!!
The case for the EU being a neo Liberal project was the same then as it is now. Good to see that a real socialist such as yourself is so radically wedded to the status quo and GDP etc...etc....etc.... Here's waiting for all that wealth to trickle down to the lucky Germans.
So now your turn....explain the route to your (socialist??) utopia that the markets are going to approve of.
Edit....and your original point was about "living standards for ordinary people" not Germany's GDP so back that up too while you're at it.
[Post edited 17 Oct 2022 6:42]
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| Rejoining the EU on 07:52 - Oct 17 with 805 views | Churchman |
| Rejoining the EU on 21:06 - Oct 16 by BlueBadger |
The main reason companies recruit from overseas is a lack of skilled people locally though.
It is generally expensive, complicated and likely to involve a (sometimes lengthy) period of adaptation to employ overseas workers.
Overseas nurses, for example, generally need a 'adaptation' period of around 6 months before they get their PIN number. And they may not perform to the same level as a locally trained one for an extended period beyond that.
Significant numbers will also move on very quickly as well - either back home ro somewhere else. Large numbers of Filipino nurses use the UK as a stepping stone to US registration.
So, we're back to the problem being largely placed at the foot of the UK government, not foreigners. [Post edited 16 Oct 2022 21:11]
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With regard to training I think you touch on something really important. I was thinking about what makes a successful 21c economy so had a little look at one of the more successful ones, South Korea. The link is Wikipedia so not reliable but gives a general idea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_South_Korea
The key to its development is education. It’s what now propels their high tech boom and economic growth as it moved from a centrally planned economy to a free market exporting one.
In Finland, I believe teachers have to have a Masters Degree and all children are taught code - the key to computers/technology.
Ok two little examples, but then I thought of our education system. It’s been messed about with for years by politicians and teachers downgraded from a profession to little more than childminders. We have to do better. Mrs C got so fed up with form filling, new requirements and nonsense that took her away from why she went into it that she gave it up.
Back to South Korea and the other element is investment. The cliche assumption was that we cannot compete because labour is cheap. True, but that isn’t the whole picture. If you watch Inside the Factory, most food processes are automated. If you watch how a container is loaded at Felixstowe there are no Stevadores. It’s about investment in processes
If you look at why for example cruise ships are made in Italy and we don’t make so much as a tugboat, it was because of lack of investment. We built 19c ships in the 20c because the owners only wanted to sweat the assets - the owners admitted as much. Cars the same. Same with all our old industries.
The tories blamed the unions. It was never really about them. It was all about investment. Investment in people, process and infrastructure. It all starts with education.
A long old rant - apologies for these very random thoughts. [Post edited 17 Oct 2022 8:15]
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| Rejoining the EU on 08:20 - Oct 17 with 783 views | giant_stow |
| Rejoining the EU on 06:21 - Oct 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
That moment when you wake up to a string of random, shouty words....!!
The case for the EU being a neo Liberal project was the same then as it is now. Good to see that a real socialist such as yourself is so radically wedded to the status quo and GDP etc...etc....etc.... Here's waiting for all that wealth to trickle down to the lucky Germans.
So now your turn....explain the route to your (socialist??) utopia that the markets are going to approve of.
Edit....and your original point was about "living standards for ordinary people" not Germany's GDP so back that up too while you're at it.
[Post edited 17 Oct 2022 6:42]
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Tim Stanley agrees with you at least: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/17/liz-truss-victim-british-coup/ |  |
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| Rejoining the EU on 08:30 - Oct 17 with 780 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
I'd take (and would love) rejoining the single market and having freedom of movement again.
Then at least we'd still have something positive out of this whole absolute sorry shower of sh1t.
Chances of that happening, and in what timeframe, anyone? |  |
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| Rejoining the EU on 08:51 - Oct 17 with 764 views | itfcjoe |
| Rejoining the EU on 20:50 - Oct 16 by BlueBadger |
Failure to adequately train young people in skills is a UK government failing, not the fault of foreigners. |
And a UK business problem, because there was an easy option available to not train people.
I'm not suggesting the smartest way to go about this was to cut off the supply of labour, but too many industries (and construction on one) have got very lazy because of EU immigration and the skills gap is so wide now
Some of it is the 'fault' of foreigners though, that they are willing and able to live and work in conditions that are almost inhumane by British standards - if we want a race to the bottom for workers we can join them by living with 16 people to a 3 bed house with 2 beds in every room and sleeping in shifts so they can send more money home etc - but it is hardly living the dream |  |
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