| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 09:35 - Nov 9 with 28986 views | gtsb1966 |
Just trying to earn a living. Enough is enough. Time to get heavy with this lot. |  | | |  |
| The problem is…. on 10:50 - Nov 12 with 2149 views | lowhouseblue |
| The problem is…. on 10:33 - Nov 12 by Darth_Koont |
Who are you trying to gaslight?
You know exactly who these people are and how and why they weaponise antisemitism against anyone progressive. |
i do suspect that the only person on here who sees anti-semitism as a weapon is you. most people see is as something to be stopped. for you it's the argument of first and last resort and you deploy it obsessively, predictability, and constantly. i guess lots of people on here have their 'thing', but what a one to chose. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The problem is…. on 11:39 - Nov 12 with 2111 views | Darth_Koont |
| The problem is…. on 10:50 - Nov 12 by lowhouseblue |
i do suspect that the only person on here who sees anti-semitism as a weapon is you. most people see is as something to be stopped. for you it's the argument of first and last resort and you deploy it obsessively, predictability, and constantly. i guess lots of people on here have their 'thing', but what a one to chose. |
Again, who are you trying to gaslight here?
Why is your “thing” being dishonest, disingenuous and smeary to dismiss and marginalise people and their legitimate views? Not least to deflect from, disrupt and discredit an absolutely critical debate.
People know you’re a bad faith actor, lowers. So, by all means, keep showing where you stand and who you are against. |  |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 12:16 - Nov 12 with 2049 views | giant_stow |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 15:03 - Nov 11 by NthQldITFC |
Someone in my wireless said earlier that wind (onshore, not sure?) was nine times cheaper than gas these days, so why the fkcu are we granting new gas licences??
I'm wondering where this nine times cheaper figure comes from and whether it stands up to scrutiny, but if it's even remotely close... |
Pretty sure wind and solar are both much cheaper than gas now. In fairness I think we're building shetlands of new wind power (I read its up there with how much China is building) but why not speed up? Plus batteries - I remember visiting a Loch in the Highlands that's got a power station powered by pumping water up to a top pond off peak, to be sent back down to generate power when needed.... can we do more of that? Or tide / wave power for that matter and what happen to that Swansea lagoon? |  |
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| The problem is…. on 12:19 - Nov 12 with 2014 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The problem is…. on 10:50 - Nov 12 by lowhouseblue |
i do suspect that the only person on here who sees anti-semitism as a weapon is you. most people see is as something to be stopped. for you it's the argument of first and last resort and you deploy it obsessively, predictability, and constantly. i guess lots of people on here have their 'thing', but what a one to chose. |
It would appear that I have taken DK off ignore, just in time to see him go full Tonto.
Staggering disingenuous replies to my post which Dan answered perfectly reasonably, [Post edited 12 Nov 2022 12:20]
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| The problem is…. on 12:34 - Nov 12 with 2002 views | noggin |
| The problem is…. on 10:50 - Nov 12 by lowhouseblue |
i do suspect that the only person on here who sees anti-semitism as a weapon is you. most people see is as something to be stopped. for you it's the argument of first and last resort and you deploy it obsessively, predictability, and constantly. i guess lots of people on here have their 'thing', but what a one to chose. |
Sorry, I meant to downvote this. |  |
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| The problem is…. on 12:37 - Nov 12 with 1999 views | Darth_Koont |
| The problem is…. on 12:19 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
It would appear that I have taken DK off ignore, just in time to see him go full Tonto.
Staggering disingenuous replies to my post which Dan answered perfectly reasonably, [Post edited 12 Nov 2022 12:20]
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Nice.
But calling out dodgy actors like you is eminently sane behaviour. | |
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| The problem is…. on 12:46 - Nov 12 with 1945 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The problem is…. on 12:37 - Nov 12 by Darth_Koont |
Nice.
But calling out dodgy actors like you is eminently sane behaviour. |
And of course, your moral superiority entitles you to tell a Jewish person, Daniel Sugarman, what he should and shouldn't be upset about when the Holocaust is invoked.
I don't know what the Jewish community in this country would do without your wise guidance Koonters? | |
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| The problem is…. on 12:55 - Nov 12 with 1936 views | Darth_Koont |
| The problem is…. on 12:46 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
And of course, your moral superiority entitles you to tell a Jewish person, Daniel Sugarman, what he should and shouldn't be upset about when the Holocaust is invoked.
I don't know what the Jewish community in this country would do without your wise guidance Koonters? |
I totally disagree with his and your framing of this.
And neither of you have convinced me that you are reading the JSO tweet in good faith exactly because you’re repeatedly framing it as “invoking the Holocaust”.
It was nothing of the sort within the actual context of a reply to a specific tweet.
If you find it offensive that I have such a low opinion of your take (or that of Sugarman, the CAA and the Jewish Chronicle etc.) then you’ll just have to deal with it. Or here’s an idea – try not to be a disingenuous, smeary tool all the time. Push your politics on their own merits, not what you think you can get away with by misrepresenting and smearing others. | |
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| The problem is…. on 13:39 - Nov 12 with 1868 views | lowhouseblue |
| The problem is…. on 12:55 - Nov 12 by Darth_Koont |
I totally disagree with his and your framing of this.
And neither of you have convinced me that you are reading the JSO tweet in good faith exactly because you’re repeatedly framing it as “invoking the Holocaust”.
It was nothing of the sort within the actual context of a reply to a specific tweet.
If you find it offensive that I have such a low opinion of your take (or that of Sugarman, the CAA and the Jewish Chronicle etc.) then you’ll just have to deal with it. Or here’s an idea – try not to be a disingenuous, smeary tool all the time. Push your politics on their own merits, not what you think you can get away with by misrepresenting and smearing others. |
sigh. dk going to dk. endlessly. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 16:14 - Nov 12 with 1803 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:53 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Pathetic. And deflection.
Even if I told you, you'd dismiss it, ridicule it, ignore it or call it lies.
One thing I'm NOT doing is slagging off these heroes who are going to prison rather than the leaders of massive corporations and countries.
"Oh but I'm in a a traffic jam for a bit". FFS. The human race deserves to die out. |
Hahahaha |  | | |
| The problem is…. on 11:52 - Nov 13 with 1689 views | Darth_Koont |
| The problem is…. on 13:39 - Nov 12 by lowhouseblue |
sigh. dk going to dk. endlessly. |
Because I disagree with a framing only Twitter loons and radical apartheid apologists are pushing?
Yeah, I’m more than happy with that.
And coming from you??! I do bang on about stuff that I think is important. I’ll be the first to admit that. But popping up to defend right-wing establishment positions (and smearily delegitimise any opposition to that) is pretty much your only trick. | |
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| The problem is…. on 14:26 - Nov 13 with 1592 views | lowhouseblue |
| The problem is…. on 11:52 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
Because I disagree with a framing only Twitter loons and radical apartheid apologists are pushing?
Yeah, I’m more than happy with that.
And coming from you??! I do bang on about stuff that I think is important. I’ll be the first to admit that. But popping up to defend right-wing establishment positions (and smearily delegitimise any opposition to that) is pretty much your only trick. |
to be clear, i criticised you for bringing "CAA, Jewish Chronicle, JLM, LAAS" randomly into a thread about oil protesters. you do it constantly, obsessively and tediously. every topic and every thread for you involves the "weaponisation of anti-semitism". it's your first and last response to everything. it's weird and unhealthy. seek help. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The problem is…. on 15:15 - Nov 13 with 1568 views | Darth_Koont |
| The problem is…. on 14:26 - Nov 13 by lowhouseblue |
to be clear, i criticised you for bringing "CAA, Jewish Chronicle, JLM, LAAS" randomly into a thread about oil protesters. you do it constantly, obsessively and tediously. every topic and every thread for you involves the "weaponisation of anti-semitism". it's your first and last response to everything. it's weird and unhealthy. seek help. |
It's not random, you numpty.
They're the ones pushing this nonsense about Just Stop Oil on Twitter. Deeply untrustworthy right-wingers straight out of yours and GB's mould.
To be 100% clear. [Post edited 13 Nov 2022 15:23]
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:18 - Nov 13 with 1480 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
3 days later and you offer this as your contribution.
I think you might be an unappreciated genius. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:56 - Nov 13 with 1451 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:18 - Nov 13 by The_Flashing_Smile |
3 days later and you offer this as your contribution.
I think you might be an unappreciated genius. |
I only usually browse on here during weekends when we play, as I have a job. However, when I see an 8 pager still on the forums first page I can always guess posters like you and Callis will be in fine angry form. Thanks for checking back in on it yourself though! | | | |
| The problem is…. on 12:42 - Nov 14 with 1322 views | DJR |
| The problem is…. on 10:50 - Nov 12 by lowhouseblue |
i do suspect that the only person on here who sees anti-semitism as a weapon is you. most people see is as something to be stopped. for you it's the argument of first and last resort and you deploy it obsessively, predictability, and constantly. i guess lots of people on here have their 'thing', but what a one to chose. |
Interesting to see that the Labour-commissioned Forde Report concluded that antisemitism was used as a weapon within the Labour Party, with "some anti-Corbyn elements of the party seiz[ing] on antisemitism as a way to attack Jeremy Corbyn".
But it was released on a good day to bury news (I can't remember the event now), and got virtually no publicity. |  | | |
| The problem is…. on 12:51 - Nov 14 with 1306 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The problem is…. on 12:42 - Nov 14 by DJR |
Interesting to see that the Labour-commissioned Forde Report concluded that antisemitism was used as a weapon within the Labour Party, with "some anti-Corbyn elements of the party seiz[ing] on antisemitism as a way to attack Jeremy Corbyn".
But it was released on a good day to bury news (I can't remember the event now), and got virtually no publicity. |
What the Forde report actually said was "Supporters AND opponents of Corbyn using the issue of antisemitism within the party “as a factional weapon." Both ‘sides’ were thus "weaponising the issue and failing to recognise the seriousness of antisemitism."
Are people 'weaponising' racism when they use racism to attack Nigel Farage? Or are they calling out racism from a racist? Why should it be any different when calling out antisemitism?
So Forde concludes that Corbyn's Labour Party did indeed have a real and serious antisemitism problem and opponents of Corbyn weaponised it against him.
Which raises the question: how is it possible to weaponise a real and serious problem against the person responsible for it?
It's a pretty poor defence."We, the jury, find the defendant guilty as charged, your honour - and we also note the prosecution weaponised his guilt to make him look guilty." [Post edited 14 Nov 2022 12:57]
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| The problem is…. on 13:08 - Nov 14 with 1277 views | DJR |
| The problem is…. on 12:51 - Nov 14 by GlasgowBlue |
What the Forde report actually said was "Supporters AND opponents of Corbyn using the issue of antisemitism within the party “as a factional weapon." Both ‘sides’ were thus "weaponising the issue and failing to recognise the seriousness of antisemitism."
Are people 'weaponising' racism when they use racism to attack Nigel Farage? Or are they calling out racism from a racist? Why should it be any different when calling out antisemitism?
So Forde concludes that Corbyn's Labour Party did indeed have a real and serious antisemitism problem and opponents of Corbyn weaponised it against him.
Which raises the question: how is it possible to weaponise a real and serious problem against the person responsible for it?
It's a pretty poor defence."We, the jury, find the defendant guilty as charged, your honour - and we also note the prosecution weaponised his guilt to make him look guilty." [Post edited 14 Nov 2022 12:57]
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I think Forde offers no real evidence for it being weaponised by those supporting Corbyn. Indeed, what he says isn't really logical.
Here's a quote from an article about this aspect
"First off are serious criticisms of the Report’s framing which seems to be dominated by an apolitical “there-are-two-sides-equally-at-fault” approach.
This is nicely captured in David Timoney’s tweet: “If one side weaponsises (sic) antisemitism, and the other side recognises it as weaponisation, how is that other side also guilty of weaponisation? If I was falsely and maliciously accused of something, would that also make me a liar?”
Alex Swift tweeted something similar: “Both factions treated it as a factional weapon in the sense that one of them used it as a factional weapon and the other responded it to it as though it were being used as a factional weapon.”"
Anyway, nothing in what I have said in any way justifies the antisemitism that existed in the Labour, and probably did before Corbyn and trails through social media.
But you and are I are obviously coming at the matter from different angles, and so will never agree, so there is no need to carry on this debate. | | | |
| The problem is…. on 13:08 - Nov 14 with 1277 views | Darth_Koont |
| The problem is…. on 12:51 - Nov 14 by GlasgowBlue |
What the Forde report actually said was "Supporters AND opponents of Corbyn using the issue of antisemitism within the party “as a factional weapon." Both ‘sides’ were thus "weaponising the issue and failing to recognise the seriousness of antisemitism."
Are people 'weaponising' racism when they use racism to attack Nigel Farage? Or are they calling out racism from a racist? Why should it be any different when calling out antisemitism?
So Forde concludes that Corbyn's Labour Party did indeed have a real and serious antisemitism problem and opponents of Corbyn weaponised it against him.
Which raises the question: how is it possible to weaponise a real and serious problem against the person responsible for it?
It's a pretty poor defence."We, the jury, find the defendant guilty as charged, your honour - and we also note the prosecution weaponised his guilt to make him look guilty." [Post edited 14 Nov 2022 12:57]
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But it wasn’t really both sides was it?
Yes, some randoms on Twitter were saying that antisemitism wasn’t an issue or that Labour didn’t have a problem. But who in the party, the LOTO or the PLP was saying that?
Meanwhile, you had a party bureaucracy under McNicol’s control and members of the PLP that were weaponising antisemitism. Something you vehemently denied at the time.
For someone who says you care about antisemitism and racism you didn’t just look the other way to ignore that weaponisation, you joined in and embellished it. While labelling genuine anti-racists and/or anyone who called out the weaponisation as antisemites or antisemitism deniers at any and every opportunity. [Post edited 14 Nov 2022 13:10]
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| The problem is…. on 13:22 - Nov 14 with 1249 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The problem is…. on 13:08 - Nov 14 by DJR |
I think Forde offers no real evidence for it being weaponised by those supporting Corbyn. Indeed, what he says isn't really logical.
Here's a quote from an article about this aspect
"First off are serious criticisms of the Report’s framing which seems to be dominated by an apolitical “there-are-two-sides-equally-at-fault” approach.
This is nicely captured in David Timoney’s tweet: “If one side weaponsises (sic) antisemitism, and the other side recognises it as weaponisation, how is that other side also guilty of weaponisation? If I was falsely and maliciously accused of something, would that also make me a liar?”
Alex Swift tweeted something similar: “Both factions treated it as a factional weapon in the sense that one of them used it as a factional weapon and the other responded it to it as though it were being used as a factional weapon.”"
Anyway, nothing in what I have said in any way justifies the antisemitism that existed in the Labour, and probably did before Corbyn and trails through social media.
But you and are I are obviously coming at the matter from different angles, and so will never agree, so there is no need to carry on this debate. |
You (mis) quoted the Forde Report but put up the Forde report to support your point of view.
I correctly quoted the Forde Report.
Now the Forde Report is rubbish.
I give up. [Post edited 14 Nov 2022 13:22]
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| The problem is…. on 13:31 - Nov 14 with 1235 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The problem is…. on 13:08 - Nov 14 by Darth_Koont |
But it wasn’t really both sides was it?
Yes, some randoms on Twitter were saying that antisemitism wasn’t an issue or that Labour didn’t have a problem. But who in the party, the LOTO or the PLP was saying that?
Meanwhile, you had a party bureaucracy under McNicol’s control and members of the PLP that were weaponising antisemitism. Something you vehemently denied at the time.
For someone who says you care about antisemitism and racism you didn’t just look the other way to ignore that weaponisation, you joined in and embellished it. While labelling genuine anti-racists and/or anyone who called out the weaponisation as antisemites or antisemitism deniers at any and every opportunity. [Post edited 14 Nov 2022 13:10]
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Oh look. Another poster who banged on endlessly about the Forde Report before it was published who now doesn't agree with the Forde Report.
Stick to promoting Qatari state owned media propaganda Koonters. | |
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| The problem is…. on 13:35 - Nov 14 with 1239 views | DJR |
| The problem is…. on 13:22 - Nov 14 by GlasgowBlue |
You (mis) quoted the Forde Report but put up the Forde report to support your point of view.
I correctly quoted the Forde Report.
Now the Forde Report is rubbish.
I give up. [Post edited 14 Nov 2022 13:22]
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I put up the Forde Report in response to a post which said than antisemitism couldn't be used as a weapon, and took from it what I thought was the logical conclusion.
Incidentally, the Report is pretty damning about racism more generally within the Party.
This from the Guardian summarises this aspect.
"Racism
There was “overt and underlying racism and sexism” in the abusive WhatsApp messages included in the leaked report, pointing to a deeper problem with racism in the Labour party.
Racism in the party is not experienced by individuals solely through acts of aggression or microaggression towards them personally — it is experienced through seeing colleagues being passed over for promotion; being the only person from an ethnic minority background around a meeting table; being managed by a near-exclusively white senior team; and hearing the particular disdain which colleagues reserve for (for example) ethnic minority MPs, councillors and CLP (constituency Labour party) members."
Sadly, this aspect of the report seems to have been largely suppressed. | | | |
| The problem is…. on 13:41 - Nov 14 with 1233 views | Darth_Koont |
| The problem is…. on 13:31 - Nov 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Oh look. Another poster who banged on endlessly about the Forde Report before it was published who now doesn't agree with the Forde Report.
Stick to promoting Qatari state owned media propaganda Koonters. |
Oh look ... someone who is going to keep dodging and swerving. Do you now accept that antisemitism was weaponised?
As you know, I agree with the Forde Report but I didn’t agree with the both siding part of it which suggested an equivalence that wasn’t really there. That was only a small part though. All in all, Forde lifting the lid on what was really going on, and the “wholly misleading” media reporting like the woefully poor Panorama hatchet job, was important in its own right.
The fact that you and others still can’t address any of that speaks volumes about your integrity or lack of it. | |
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| The problem is…. on 14:05 - Nov 14 with 1215 views | unbelievablue |
| The problem is…. on 13:41 - Nov 14 by Darth_Koont |
Oh look ... someone who is going to keep dodging and swerving. Do you now accept that antisemitism was weaponised?
As you know, I agree with the Forde Report but I didn’t agree with the both siding part of it which suggested an equivalence that wasn’t really there. That was only a small part though. All in all, Forde lifting the lid on what was really going on, and the “wholly misleading” media reporting like the woefully poor Panorama hatchet job, was important in its own right.
The fact that you and others still can’t address any of that speaks volumes about your integrity or lack of it. |
Was better on here when you ignored each other, I think. |  |
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