| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 09:35 - Nov 9 with 28979 views | gtsb1966 |
Just trying to earn a living. Enough is enough. Time to get heavy with this lot. |  | | |  |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 22:09 - Nov 9 with 2036 views | eireblue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:05 - Nov 9 by Bobsthename |
Need a good hosing down the lot of them nothing but glorified tree huggers modern day snowflakes and so are all those that back what they are doing.My niece missed her hospital appointment tailbacks today from Junction 21 to junction 28 just go another and protest outside parliament or something. |
Hopefully your niece is well and will get another appointment. I have a niece that lives in an area that is less than 1 meter above current sea level. That area will likely be uninhabitable in her life time. Her and her family will probably end up as some form of migrant, and on current form will probably be vilified by some group for political gain.
On the topic of snowflakes, are people that are happy to be protest, identified in public, arrested and be put in prison snowflakes?
There are a few anonymous blowhards whining in this thread that are more worthy of the term snowflake. I am not directing that at you, since you are a bit miffed. However worse things will happen to plenty of other nieces. |  | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 23:07 - Nov 9 with 1957 views | Pinewoodblue |
I can recall COP21 in Paris but nothing about the previous 20 such gatherings.
Makes you realise that the problem has been known about for 20+ years but initial progress was far too slow. |  |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 01:09 - Nov 10 with 1913 views | XYZ |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 22:09 - Nov 9 by eireblue |
Hopefully your niece is well and will get another appointment. I have a niece that lives in an area that is less than 1 meter above current sea level. That area will likely be uninhabitable in her life time. Her and her family will probably end up as some form of migrant, and on current form will probably be vilified by some group for political gain.
On the topic of snowflakes, are people that are happy to be protest, identified in public, arrested and be put in prison snowflakes?
There are a few anonymous blowhards whining in this thread that are more worthy of the term snowflake. I am not directing that at you, since you are a bit miffed. However worse things will happen to plenty of other nieces. |
Indeed.
The selfish gene plays its games. |  | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 07:56 - Nov 10 with 1838 views | IP4_Blue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:35 - Nov 9 by Zapers |
And if your day was disrupted, you would be the first person on her crying. |
It's ok if he had a child that needed to go to a hospital appointment, or missed his parents funeral, or one of his closest family members was awaiting an ambulance trying to get through it would be ok as he thinks it's acceptable for Just Stop Oil to disrupt normal people going about their own business. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:11 - Nov 10 with 1822 views | gtsb1966 |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 07:56 - Nov 10 by IP4_Blue |
It's ok if he had a child that needed to go to a hospital appointment, or missed his parents funeral, or one of his closest family members was awaiting an ambulance trying to get through it would be ok as he thinks it's acceptable for Just Stop Oil to disrupt normal people going about their own business. |
And they are back again targeting the wrong people. Stories on the radio saying exactly what you've said. People turning against them in their thousands. They really have adopted the wrong strategy. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:20 - Nov 10 with 1811 views | StokieBlue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 07:56 - Nov 10 by IP4_Blue |
It's ok if he had a child that needed to go to a hospital appointment, or missed his parents funeral, or one of his closest family members was awaiting an ambulance trying to get through it would be ok as he thinks it's acceptable for Just Stop Oil to disrupt normal people going about their own business. |
How many ambulances regularly use the M25 as the quickest route? I have no idea but I doubt it is very many and it looks like an easy trope to roll out as a counter argument that requires no thought.
I would have thought that targeting a large circular road outside of highly populated areas would have far less effect on emergency services than targeting roads and bridges in central London whilst achieving the same level of publicity for their cause.
Will you be directing the same level of criticism to striking nurses which will likely have an effect on emergency services on the days they are striking?
SB |  | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:27 - Nov 10 with 1793 views | DanTheMan |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 23:07 - Nov 9 by Pinewoodblue |
I can recall COP21 in Paris but nothing about the previous 20 such gatherings.
Makes you realise that the problem has been known about for 20+ years but initial progress was far too slow. |
20? We've known about it since at least the 60s. |  |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:29 - Nov 10 with 1791 views | DanTheMan |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:24 - Nov 9 by NthQldITFC |
I think it's pretty clear from this thread and many others like it that there are few, if any, climate change denier nutters out there these days. That's really good, and positive compared to just five years ago.
Where the disagreement tends to lie now is between those who realise just how critical and imminent a threat we and the rest of nature face, and those who think something's got to be done, but only when we can find a cost-effective and comfortable way of doing it.
I suspect that people tend to believe that our international infrastructure and technological prowess make civilisation a sturdy and adaptable animal. The reality I suspect, is that civilisation is fragile and dependent upon a lot of conventions and agreements which will be the first things to go to the wall when we start to experience systematic breakdowns as a consequence of not respecting the limits of our finite planet.
The first signs of these breakdowns will probably be things like huge jumps in local temperature records, hemispheric-level wildfires and floods, super strength cyclones, and people climbing up onto gantries on the M25. |
It is worth mentioning that, whether you agree with them or not, these people will not be deterred by chucking them in jail when they believe that the future of the planet is at stake. | |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:36 - Nov 10 with 1776 views | gtsb1966 |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:20 - Nov 10 by StokieBlue |
How many ambulances regularly use the M25 as the quickest route? I have no idea but I doubt it is very many and it looks like an easy trope to roll out as a counter argument that requires no thought.
I would have thought that targeting a large circular road outside of highly populated areas would have far less effect on emergency services than targeting roads and bridges in central London whilst achieving the same level of publicity for their cause.
Will you be directing the same level of criticism to striking nurses which will likely have an effect on emergency services on the days they are striking?
SB |
How many ambulances are stuck in jams because the M25 is blocked so traffic is heavy on the surrounding roads. As a frequent user of the M25 I can assure you the emergency services use it frequently. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:47 - Nov 10 with 1760 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:38 - Nov 9 by allezlesbleus |
But will pishing off the general public all of a sudden be the catalyst for major change?
As I keep saying, I agree something needs to be done, but alienating a vast percentage of the public is the wrong way to go about it. |
A vast % of the public drive round the M25? |  |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:49 - Nov 10 with 1754 views | Leaky |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:56 - Nov 9 by unstableblue |
I'm not sure I can ever condone Just Stop Oil closing the M25, and sorry that you are having a nightmare travelling as a result.
But I listened to their spokesman on the World at One yesterday, and I'd urge you to try and dig it out. It was very clear and compelling. They hate that they are causing this, but what else can they do?
Perhaps it's time to get heavy with the government for not acting? As a group they have tried every route, petitions, protests, lobbying, you name it. And yet still in 2022 we don't have a strategy to insulate the UK housing stock (which literally pisses energy out of the walls and rooves of homes) with the government being incompetent in resolving. AND we are about to incentivise and agree 100 new oil & gas exploration licenses, 100! in 2022.
There is no real strategy from our government, just platitudes. It needs a massive sea change in policy, and one I feel could actually generate much needed green growth.
Everyone is living for today, and can't connect with the implications of what Just Stop Oil are warning about, but you are already beginning to pay through taxes and utility bills for climate resilience measures today.... billions today, trillions in the future.
Doesn't make up for the massive inconvenience caused to you on such a key motorway, but again what else can they do? everyone is sticking their fingers in their ears, and thinking this problem is not real, or too far off to connect with... and yet action today (which is what Just Stop Oil are asking) could save billions of pounds tomorrow.
Even if 25% of the climate change predictions we are on track for become a reality we will be massively challenged - you think immigration is a challenge today!! If 100% and the complex system tipping points take place, earth ain't a great place to live for our grandchildren. |
Sorry have how do you insulate houses that are over 100 years old. Yes, you can insulate lofts fit triple glazing. However, it's difficult to insulate properties with 9-inch solid walls. You can fit cladding to the external walls on a property internally it would be very expensive. Really, we are looking at demolishing a lot of properties and doing a total rebuild. |  | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:57 - Nov 10 with 1745 views | noggin |
Currently demonstrations on several stretches of the M25, according to the BBC. This isn't going away anytime soon. |  |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:01 - Nov 10 with 1741 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:49 - Nov 10 by Leaky |
Sorry have how do you insulate houses that are over 100 years old. Yes, you can insulate lofts fit triple glazing. However, it's difficult to insulate properties with 9-inch solid walls. You can fit cladding to the external walls on a property internally it would be very expensive. Really, we are looking at demolishing a lot of properties and doing a total rebuild. |
Let's not bother then.. | |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:05 - Nov 10 with 1735 views | noggin |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:49 - Nov 10 by Leaky |
Sorry have how do you insulate houses that are over 100 years old. Yes, you can insulate lofts fit triple glazing. However, it's difficult to insulate properties with 9-inch solid walls. You can fit cladding to the external walls on a property internally it would be very expensive. Really, we are looking at demolishing a lot of properties and doing a total rebuild. |
A program of affordable house building. Now there's a novel idea. [Post edited 10 Nov 2022 9:05]
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:15 - Nov 10 with 1720 views | StokieBlue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 08:36 - Nov 10 by gtsb1966 |
How many ambulances are stuck in jams because the M25 is blocked so traffic is heavy on the surrounding roads. As a frequent user of the M25 I can assure you the emergency services use it frequently. |
That's anecdotal evidence though, anecdotally I barely see an ambulance or fire engine on the M25 unless there has been an accident which is unlikely if the traffic is blocked. Both our examples are anecdotal and thus not ideal but it just seems like a lazy argument to me given you've got no actual metrics.
It's also not a counter to the point that previous protests blocking bridges in London right next to a hospital almost certainly caused far more disruption to emergency services.
Will you be "going heavy" on the nurses when they strike as they have already said that appointments will need to be cancelled given impact on emergencies services is one of your main concerns?
SB [Post edited 10 Nov 2022 9:21]
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:22 - Nov 10 with 1693 views | Leaky |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:01 - Nov 10 by Ewan_Oozami |
Let's not bother then.. |
A very intelligent reply. Perhaps you could offer a solution. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:26 - Nov 10 with 1682 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:22 - Nov 10 by Leaky |
A very intelligent reply. Perhaps you could offer a solution. |
Maybe base council tax on the thermal properties of a house? | |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:29 - Nov 10 with 1664 views | Leaky |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:05 - Nov 10 by noggin |
A program of affordable house building. Now there's a novel idea. [Post edited 10 Nov 2022 9:05]
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You could say that however replacing aging housing stock with better insulatied homes means rehousing a large part of the population. Plus, my son works for a large company part of this company deals in insulation. they had trucks stuck on the M25. Imagine having insulation protesters holding deliveries of insulation. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:30 - Nov 10 with 1663 views | StokieBlue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:26 - Nov 10 by Ewan_Oozami |
Maybe base council tax on the thermal properties of a house? |
Not a bad idea but it would have to be more nuanced than that given many areas won't allow original sash windows to be replaced with PVC triple glazed. You could replace with custom built wooden triple glazed but that is 20k+ or something depending on how many windows.
I guess conservation rules could be changed but that also has it's own problems.
SB | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:30 - Nov 10 with 1665 views | gtsb1966 |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:15 - Nov 10 by StokieBlue |
That's anecdotal evidence though, anecdotally I barely see an ambulance or fire engine on the M25 unless there has been an accident which is unlikely if the traffic is blocked. Both our examples are anecdotal and thus not ideal but it just seems like a lazy argument to me given you've got no actual metrics.
It's also not a counter to the point that previous protests blocking bridges in London right next to a hospital almost certainly caused far more disruption to emergency services.
Will you be "going heavy" on the nurses when they strike as they have already said that appointments will need to be cancelled given impact on emergencies services is one of your main concerns?
SB [Post edited 10 Nov 2022 9:21]
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Sometimes you need to take a step back and realise you ain't always right. It's tedious. As a regular user of the M25 and the roads around London I know what I see and this week the traffic has been awful. As to regards to the nurses critical care will not be affected so I'm totally behind them. As stated before I get and support what the protesters are fighting for but disagree with the way they are doing it. You conveniently seem to forget that. I look to your reply and my re-education when i can finally get out of London. Must be hard being the board oracle. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:31 - Nov 10 with 1659 views | noggin |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:29 - Nov 10 by Leaky |
You could say that however replacing aging housing stock with better insulatied homes means rehousing a large part of the population. Plus, my son works for a large company part of this company deals in insulation. they had trucks stuck on the M25. Imagine having insulation protesters holding deliveries of insulation. |
I'm not sure delaying delivery of insulation is going to make a difference to the rate of global warming. | |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:38 - Nov 10 with 1650 views | StokieBlue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:30 - Nov 10 by gtsb1966 |
Sometimes you need to take a step back and realise you ain't always right. It's tedious. As a regular user of the M25 and the roads around London I know what I see and this week the traffic has been awful. As to regards to the nurses critical care will not be affected so I'm totally behind them. As stated before I get and support what the protesters are fighting for but disagree with the way they are doing it. You conveniently seem to forget that. I look to your reply and my re-education when i can finally get out of London. Must be hard being the board oracle. |
My point is there are different levels of evidence and anecdotal is right at the bottom of the pile.
I am well aware of what the traffic in London is like, my point is that previously they closed roads and bridges next to a hospital and that would seem to be worse for emergency services (there were a lot of documented cases, I can't seem to find one from these latest M25 protests although that doesn't mean there haven't been cases). Happy to leave it there as are unlikely to reach an agreement here.
Chemotherapy appointments are being cancelled during the nursing strike and that is pretty critical to those getting it. I support the nurses as well but I find it interesting that you support their cause when it will cause disruption but not climate protesters causing disruption to similar services.
Given you've been corrected about immigration in the last week and refused to accept that it's a bit rich to call out others for being tedious or the board oracle.
Am going to leave it there, good luck with the traffic and I hope you aren't delayed too long.
SB [Post edited 10 Nov 2022 9:39]
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:53 - Nov 10 with 1609 views | Leaky |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:26 - Nov 10 by Ewan_Oozami |
Maybe base council tax on the thermal properties of a house? |
Probably wouldn't work unless it was a very steep rise, as a lot of people will find it cheaper to pay the tax than insulate their homes. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 10:05 - Nov 10 with 1590 views | Leaky |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:31 - Nov 10 by noggin |
I'm not sure delaying delivery of insulation is going to make a difference to the rate of global warming. |
Much the same way as holding up traffic on a motorway. Wonder how much Co2 was released to the atmosphere while motorists are sitting in a traffic jam with engine running. Yes, you can switch the engine off. Trucks sometimes have to keep engines running dependant on the load they are carrying. I'm not against reducing global warming just don't feel these protests help. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 10:17 - Nov 10 with 1567 views | Ryorry |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 09:22 - Nov 10 by Leaky |
A very intelligent reply. Perhaps you could offer a solution. |
I already did on a previous page, it’s extremely easy, as I showed with the example of renovating my 200 year old house in 2014 that has thick solid stone walls, if you’d bothered to read the whole thread. |  |
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