| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 09:35 - Nov 9 with 28985 views | gtsb1966 |
Just trying to earn a living. Enough is enough. Time to get heavy with this lot. |  | | |  |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:33 - Nov 9 with 1869 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 15:17 - Nov 9 by noggin |
I read somewhere that Elon's Spacex rocket produces more CO2 in a fifteen minute flight into orbit, than the poorest 1 billion people do in their collective lifetimes.
*I haven't researched to find out if it's true. |
Probably not far off. The private jets shooting off to COP27 are getting a hammering too. Our government one produced over 78 tonnes of CO2 equivalent for the one flight out there, for 2 govt people (I’m assuming they had some minions too, but they’re only there to support the 2). So that’s about 18x the global average per person per year. In a few hours.
It’s hard not to be completely cynical and conclude we’re f***ed. |  |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:35 - Nov 9 with 1850 views | StokieBlue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:28 - Nov 9 by allezlesbleus |
We all have opinions - right or wrong.
You believe that regularly disrupting the general public creates better awareness for this cause. I agree that it creates awareness, but actually hinders support for the cause. The general public have enough of the brown stuff to deal with at the moment, so to cause them further misery whilst they are just trying to scrape a living seems to me to be the incorrect way to drum up public support.
I get the bigger picture that something needs to be done........and I agree with that.
However, to me, these protestors would gain much more public backing if they were to directly target the people who can influence decisions, ie politicians and big corporation bosses. |
That's been tried for decades though without success. Why do you think it will work now?
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein (although he never actually said it).
You're essentially advocating the status quo. I fully understand these protests are annoying and I would be hugely annoyed if I was stuck in one but I guess the protesters feel that without causing a problem they simply won't get enough coverage.
Doesn't mean they shouldn't protest politicians and CEO's as well though.
SB |  | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:38 - Nov 9 with 1825 views | allezlesbleus |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:35 - Nov 9 by StokieBlue |
That's been tried for decades though without success. Why do you think it will work now?
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein (although he never actually said it).
You're essentially advocating the status quo. I fully understand these protests are annoying and I would be hugely annoyed if I was stuck in one but I guess the protesters feel that without causing a problem they simply won't get enough coverage.
Doesn't mean they shouldn't protest politicians and CEO's as well though.
SB |
But will pishing off the general public all of a sudden be the catalyst for major change?
As I keep saying, I agree something needs to be done, but alienating a vast percentage of the public is the wrong way to go about it. |  | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:40 - Nov 9 with 1816 views | rgp1 |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 10:33 - Nov 9 by brazil1982 |
Have they targeted other areas of the country? All seems to be M25. Mind you, you wouldn't notice the difference on the M62. |
Quite right, However what nugget would be brave enough to climb and sit on a gantry on Britain's highest motorway whilst it rains sideways in the middle of November? |  | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:44 - Nov 9 with 1798 views | backwaywhen |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:19 - Nov 9 by StokieBlue |
Cretins?
Bang them up for 5 years?
Nice to see the sensible debaters coming out for their evening posts.
SB |
What’s not to like ……. Get real and man up . | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:52 - Nov 9 with 1787 views | jeera |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:44 - Nov 9 by backwaywhen |
What’s not to like ……. Get real and man up . |
Why show up and feck-up what should be an interesting and informative thread with this infantile bulls1t?
Literally no point to this whatsoever. |  |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:58 - Nov 9 with 1767 views | NthQldITFC |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:26 - Nov 9 by gtsb1966 |
Good actress. Not one tear, no glazed eyes. I believe in the cause but strongly disagree with the way they are going about it. |
You think that's acting. Really? Or just to justify your hatred of these activists?
I count myself lucky that I don't have kids to worry about, but I do have young relatives, and I talk to them and see the pain and fear in their eyes when they talk about 'not having a future', exactly like Louise does in that clip.
I'm sure you're not totally heartless, and just coming across wrong. |  |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:00 - Nov 9 with 1756 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:38 - Nov 9 by allezlesbleus |
But will pishing off the general public all of a sudden be the catalyst for major change?
As I keep saying, I agree something needs to be done, but alienating a vast percentage of the public is the wrong way to go about it. |
Possibly not, but then the publicity could equally outweigh the negative impacts and be a step in the right direction. It’s only a very, very small % of the UK’s population who are directly impacted by this. It comes back to Monbiot’s point in a post I made earlier. You only need about 20-25% buy in to reach a social tipping point that then drives change (as the politicians respond to the larger audience above that point). The very small number of people being impacted by these protests are largely irrelevant to that model. The harder thing is convincing all the people who are outraged at the reported delays on the M25 even though they live in Hull. But you’ll never reach the most gullible, so to paraphrase Monbiot, fk ‘em (he said it more politely lol). | |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:05 - Nov 9 with 1740 views | Bobsthename |
Need a good hosing down the lot of them nothing but glorified tree huggers modern day snowflakes and so are all those that back what they are doing.My niece missed her hospital appointment tailbacks today from Junction 21 to junction 28 just go another and protest outside parliament or something. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:07 - Nov 9 with 1738 views | noggin |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:05 - Nov 9 by Bobsthename |
Need a good hosing down the lot of them nothing but glorified tree huggers modern day snowflakes and so are all those that back what they are doing.My niece missed her hospital appointment tailbacks today from Junction 21 to junction 28 just go another and protest outside parliament or something. |
Don't worry, your great grand children won't have to experience the same worries as you. |  |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:11 - Nov 9 with 1728 views | gtsb1966 |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:58 - Nov 9 by NthQldITFC |
You think that's acting. Really? Or just to justify your hatred of these activists?
I count myself lucky that I don't have kids to worry about, but I do have young relatives, and I talk to them and see the pain and fear in their eyes when they talk about 'not having a future', exactly like Louise does in that clip.
I'm sure you're not totally heartless, and just coming across wrong. |
To me it came across very staged and not once have I said I hate them. Hate them no. Believe in the cause yes. Hate the way they are going about it yes. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:19 - Nov 9 with 1693 views | StokieBlue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 19:33 - Nov 9 by Swansea_Blue |
Probably not far off. The private jets shooting off to COP27 are getting a hammering too. Our government one produced over 78 tonnes of CO2 equivalent for the one flight out there, for 2 govt people (I’m assuming they had some minions too, but they’re only there to support the 2). So that’s about 18x the global average per person per year. In a few hours.
It’s hard not to be completely cynical and conclude we’re f***ed. |
Without looking to defend SpaceX (although I do think they are vital for scientific study) those numbers are absolutely miles off.
One Falcon 9 launch is ~390 transatlantic flights worth of emissions. For comparison, there are ~2000 transatlantic flights every day.
"Current rocket launches have a negligible effect on total carbon emissions – Everyday Astronaut found they accounted for 0.0000059 percent of global carbon emissions in 2018, while the airline industry produced 2.4 percent the same year."
As I say, not defending rocket launches specifically, just keen to ensure that any evidence provided is accurate.
SB | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:24 - Nov 9 with 1675 views | NthQldITFC |
I think it's pretty clear from this thread and many others like it that there are few, if any, climate change denier nutters out there these days. That's really good, and positive compared to just five years ago.
Where the disagreement tends to lie now is between those who realise just how critical and imminent a threat we and the rest of nature face, and those who think something's got to be done, but only when we can find a cost-effective and comfortable way of doing it.
I suspect that people tend to believe that our international infrastructure and technological prowess make civilisation a sturdy and adaptable animal. The reality I suspect, is that civilisation is fragile and dependent upon a lot of conventions and agreements which will be the first things to go to the wall when we start to experience systematic breakdowns as a consequence of not respecting the limits of our finite planet.
The first signs of these breakdowns will probably be things like huge jumps in local temperature records, hemispheric-level wildfires and floods, super strength cyclones, and people climbing up onto gantries on the M25. | |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:25 - Nov 9 with 1668 views | NthQldITFC |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:11 - Nov 9 by gtsb1966 |
To me it came across very staged and not once have I said I hate them. Hate them no. Believe in the cause yes. Hate the way they are going about it yes. |
Apologies, I think my previous response was unfair and OTT. | |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:33 - Nov 9 with 1651 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:19 - Nov 9 by StokieBlue |
Without looking to defend SpaceX (although I do think they are vital for scientific study) those numbers are absolutely miles off.
One Falcon 9 launch is ~390 transatlantic flights worth of emissions. For comparison, there are ~2000 transatlantic flights every day.
"Current rocket launches have a negligible effect on total carbon emissions – Everyday Astronaut found they accounted for 0.0000059 percent of global carbon emissions in 2018, while the airline industry produced 2.4 percent the same year."
As I say, not defending rocket launches specifically, just keen to ensure that any evidence provided is accurate.
SB |
What are the life time emissions of the poorest billion? |  |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:36 - Nov 9 with 1648 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:19 - Nov 9 by StokieBlue |
Without looking to defend SpaceX (although I do think they are vital for scientific study) those numbers are absolutely miles off.
One Falcon 9 launch is ~390 transatlantic flights worth of emissions. For comparison, there are ~2000 transatlantic flights every day.
"Current rocket launches have a negligible effect on total carbon emissions – Everyday Astronaut found they accounted for 0.0000059 percent of global carbon emissions in 2018, while the airline industry produced 2.4 percent the same year."
As I say, not defending rocket launches specifically, just keen to ensure that any evidence provided is accurate.
SB |
Fair point and quite happy to be pulled up - I just assumed (rookie error!). It’s mentioned here that the space industry produces only 1% of the emissions of the aviation industry. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220713-how-to-make-rocket-launches-less-pol Negligible overall, although that will be huge on a per person basis.
The black carbon stuff seems interesting. I’ve seen the impacts of that in the Himalayas with black carbon from wood fire burning (cooking fires mostly) from the subcontinent being deposited on the glaciers during northward monsoon storms, which then accelerates melting (negates the albedo effect). There are some great time lapse photos that show the literal accumulation, but I doubt I’d find them again (I probably saw them in a conference somewhere).
Interestingly, that Beeb article is talking of the potential cooling effect of black carbon when it’s higher in the atmosphere. Not something I’ve been aware of before (but I’m 10 years out of the science now). | |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:54 - Nov 9 with 1625 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:33 - Nov 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What are the life time emissions of the poorest billion? |
Sweat and tears | |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:57 - Nov 9 with 1618 views | StokieBlue |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 20:36 - Nov 9 by Swansea_Blue |
Fair point and quite happy to be pulled up - I just assumed (rookie error!). It’s mentioned here that the space industry produces only 1% of the emissions of the aviation industry. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220713-how-to-make-rocket-launches-less-pol Negligible overall, although that will be huge on a per person basis.
The black carbon stuff seems interesting. I’ve seen the impacts of that in the Himalayas with black carbon from wood fire burning (cooking fires mostly) from the subcontinent being deposited on the glaciers during northward monsoon storms, which then accelerates melting (negates the albedo effect). There are some great time lapse photos that show the literal accumulation, but I doubt I’d find them again (I probably saw them in a conference somewhere).
Interestingly, that Beeb article is talking of the potential cooling effect of black carbon when it’s higher in the atmosphere. Not something I’ve been aware of before (but I’m 10 years out of the science now). |
For more specifics, the poorest 0.7bn people in the world produce 0.5% of the global emissions according to Our World In Data. Obviously that's far higher than a single rocket launch but it is important to discuss these things.
I did find the article with the incorrect data though so it's easily quoted.
In the end this is all pretty meaningless though, the top polluters in the world both in industry and in the general population need to get their act together and reduce their emissions.
SB | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:29 - Nov 9 with 1571 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
This thread highlights the problem, and why we're all doomed (well, the youngsters are).
Too many either don't care or see it as annoying. You dumb fücks. It's apathy, from people like you, that have destroyed this planet. We should all be rising up. We should all be disrupting sh!t.
It's not "Time to get heavy with this lot." It's time to get heavy with you morons (and the politicians) who don't care. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:35 - Nov 9 with 1555 views | Zapers |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:29 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
This thread highlights the problem, and why we're all doomed (well, the youngsters are).
Too many either don't care or see it as annoying. You dumb fücks. It's apathy, from people like you, that have destroyed this planet. We should all be rising up. We should all be disrupting sh!t.
It's not "Time to get heavy with this lot." It's time to get heavy with you morons (and the politicians) who don't care. |
And if your day was disrupted, you would be the first person on her crying. | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:40 - Nov 9 with 1550 views | gtsb1966 |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:29 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
This thread highlights the problem, and why we're all doomed (well, the youngsters are).
Too many either don't care or see it as annoying. You dumb fücks. It's apathy, from people like you, that have destroyed this planet. We should all be rising up. We should all be disrupting sh!t.
It's not "Time to get heavy with this lot." It's time to get heavy with you morons (and the politicians) who don't care. |
It's apathy, from people like you, that have destroyed this planet.
And you're different because you've done what? | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:45 - Nov 9 with 1532 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:35 - Nov 9 by Zapers |
And if your day was disrupted, you would be the first person on her crying. |
Have you any evidence for that? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:53 - Nov 9 with 1497 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:40 - Nov 9 by gtsb1966 |
It's apathy, from people like you, that have destroyed this planet.
And you're different because you've done what? |
Pathetic. And deflection.
Even if I told you, you'd dismiss it, ridicule it, ignore it or call it lies.
One thing I'm NOT doing is slagging off these heroes who are going to prison rather than the leaders of massive corporations and countries.
"Oh but I'm in a a traffic jam for a bit". FFS. The human race deserves to die out. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:58 - Nov 9 with 1470 views | gtsb1966 |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:53 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Pathetic. And deflection.
Even if I told you, you'd dismiss it, ridicule it, ignore it or call it lies.
One thing I'm NOT doing is slagging off these heroes who are going to prison rather than the leaders of massive corporations and countries.
"Oh but I'm in a a traffic jam for a bit". FFS. The human race deserves to die out. |
You're not a politician so answer the question. Tell me why I have destroyed the planet and why you haven't. I'm not saying my actions over the years havent contributed in a tiny way to global warming but why haven't yours? | | | |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 22:06 - Nov 9 with 1441 views | bazza |
| Third consecutive day stuck on the M25 on 21:53 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Pathetic. And deflection.
Even if I told you, you'd dismiss it, ridicule it, ignore it or call it lies.
One thing I'm NOT doing is slagging off these heroes who are going to prison rather than the leaders of massive corporations and countries.
"Oh but I'm in a a traffic jam for a bit". FFS. The human race deserves to die out. |
It does , when you’ve got people calling other people who lay in the middle of the road or climb a gantry a hero ffs. They could protest in other ways, and not go to prison you know.. |  | | |
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