| Ipswich are playing Ruskball – and it won’t succeed 11:44 - Feb 5 with 9887 views | NorrisHatter |
Just over three years ago Stockport County was bought by a very wealthy local businessman. After ten years of languishing in non-league (much of it at tier 6) he announced after taking over that the club was capable of playing at a much higher level; that challenging to reach the championship was the aim and that he was in a hurry.
Substantial investment in the stadium, which had been decaying for two decades followed immediately. The entire off-field set up was professionalised with a proper management structure staffed with people of quality. Quality was the watchword on the field too with players of pedigree from higher divisions being signed.
The most radical move they made was to sack the long serving manager. Modern thinking off the field had to be matched with modern thinking on it, it seemed. None of the fans had heard of the new man, Simon Rusk.
He had been plucked from Brighton’s player development set-up where he had an outstanding reputation for bringing young players through. For years this had been a gripe of the supporters — “we don’t see enough of our young lads make it”.
Does any of the what I’ve just written seem familiar to Ipswich fans?
So — premier league style thinking and the promise of youth players coming through. It all seemed wonderful.
Except it wasn’t. A new possession-based style was introduced. We dominated matches, but there were too many draws and by the end of the season Rusk hadn’t improved the club’s league position from when he had taken over and County ended in the play-offs.
They lost timidly to Hartlepool, the team who finished below them. Pools had much lesser resources but were managed by Dave Challinor, a man in his mid-forties who had been successful at this level with Fylde and blended modern style with old school nous about what it takes to get out from this level. Hartlepool went up to league 2.
The next season, things got much worse. Other sides had worked County out. They sat back. More draws but defeats too. County had developed a bad habit of dominating but then lapsing momentarily and giving bad goals away, from stupid back passes and he like. The fans had a name now for the endless backwards and sideways passing with no penetration — “Ruskball”
The owner didn’t mess around. Rusk was removed and replaced with…… Dave Challinor!! The transformation was staggering. Just a few weeks after being incapable of beating struggling Barnet, County smashed league 1 Bolton 5-3 in a cup replay (watch the video on BBC if you can find it — an FA Cup classic).
Challinor proved what the fans knew all along — we had very good players; but they hadn’t been allowed to play how they could. County were a country mile behind Wrexham and Chesterfield at the top when Challinor took over, but they were reeled in and Stockport were promoted with six points to spare.
This season the progress has continued after a period of early adaptation to the new level. County hit the play off places yesterday and a second promotion in two seasons is not unimaginable. Stockport, with new wealthy owners in a hurry have succeeded:
Not just because of the off field professionalisation
Not just because of heavy investment in good players
But because the owners were savvy enough to realise that at lower league level you need a manager who wants to play cultured stuff (County are a joy when they can get it down on the grass), but who knows how to mix it up and hand it out to the sides who don’t want to play.
And because the owners acted quickly enough to make the change before the opportunity to progress was lost.
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 17:53 - Feb 5 with 1905 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 17:33 - Feb 5 by NorrisHatter |
"it's a reasonable indicator of the quality and number of opportunities a team creates or concedes".
I completely agree. It indicates what has been created. It doesn't predict that it will be converted, or conceded if its xG against. It tells you what, but it doesn't tell you why. Why if our xG is say three a game every game do we only score one a game? And why is it that in some games a team's actual is much closer to xG than others?
According to the xG experts the answer is variance. The question is whether the variance is statistical inevitability that given a long enough run will correct itself . So I expect when I toss a coin it will be heads half the time. I might get 4 heads in a row when I start. It won't mean I'll get four tails next, but after 100 tosses of the coin the 4-0 I started with will look more like 50:50.
Alternatively the variance could be due to some self imposed factor. That's the question the Ipswich management team should be asking itself.
For the moment, given that Ipswich are top on statistics, but falling away badly in the real world, they don't seem to have the answer. |
Or maybe they do have the answer but its an issue that's hard to solve. Its been mentioned above but the use of the eye test here is helpful, It is players who in the past have been reliable, missing big chances at crucial moments in games. Take Oxford the other week as one example. Burns misses a great one v one chance, Hirst misses a great cutback. That two. I think the club tried to address this by bringing in a player like Nathan Broadhead who is statically a top finisher at this level based on his time at sunderland. I could go back weeks and weeks of players missing big chances, al the way back to the Bolton game on day one when Morsy misses a chance he should've scored, and was scoring last season. I dont expect us to scorer every big chance of course, but having watched every town game this season, I imagine McKenna is pulling this hair out with the rest of us. |  |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 18:43 - Feb 5 with 1844 views | NorrisHatter |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 17:53 - Feb 5 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Or maybe they do have the answer but its an issue that's hard to solve. Its been mentioned above but the use of the eye test here is helpful, It is players who in the past have been reliable, missing big chances at crucial moments in games. Take Oxford the other week as one example. Burns misses a great one v one chance, Hirst misses a great cutback. That two. I think the club tried to address this by bringing in a player like Nathan Broadhead who is statically a top finisher at this level based on his time at sunderland. I could go back weeks and weeks of players missing big chances, al the way back to the Bolton game on day one when Morsy misses a chance he should've scored, and was scoring last season. I dont expect us to scorer every big chance of course, but having watched every town game this season, I imagine McKenna is pulling this hair out with the rest of us. |
An excellently made alternative argument to mine. I've had a look at the xG for Ipswich this season and they have underscored by 10 (goals against virtually spot on expectation).
I think where we agree is that the right thing to do is not just decide that the xG statistic says we will be fine in the end, but to ask the question why we are under performing it. And your point, as I said, is very well made. Step one is to identify the root cause and then step two is to identify and implement a solution that will work. We simply don't know how far along that process the management team (by which I mean not just the football management team) has got, whether any potential solution will work and whether its all been left too late and promotion will now be via the play offs or next year.
What I would say is that its inconceivable that promotion won't happen this year or next, when you look at the off field professionalism and the investment that's being made. | | | |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 18:47 - Feb 5 with 1843 views | nodge_blue |
This is just piffle.
What we are doing is buying good players and playing decent football. We have just hit a bad patch. Plymouth went from first last year to out of play offs. Were they playing ruskball or whatever? |  |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 19:25 - Feb 5 with 1808 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 18:43 - Feb 5 by NorrisHatter |
An excellently made alternative argument to mine. I've had a look at the xG for Ipswich this season and they have underscored by 10 (goals against virtually spot on expectation).
I think where we agree is that the right thing to do is not just decide that the xG statistic says we will be fine in the end, but to ask the question why we are under performing it. And your point, as I said, is very well made. Step one is to identify the root cause and then step two is to identify and implement a solution that will work. We simply don't know how far along that process the management team (by which I mean not just the football management team) has got, whether any potential solution will work and whether its all been left too late and promotion will now be via the play offs or next year.
What I would say is that its inconceivable that promotion won't happen this year or next, when you look at the off field professionalism and the investment that's being made. |
Always good to find agreements.
Im still very happy with McKenna, he's not faultless by any means and I think at times his in game management has been questionable, but hes still learning and im ok with that. This will be a big test for him as a coach and as a person i'm sure, but I think we have got a good one. Just need to ride this storm and see where we are come may, if its play offs, let it be play offs. But in terms of on pitch, just have to be more clinical in both boxes. Its not at all impossible that all of a sudden our shots start flying in and we win 5 on the bounce. Football is a funny old game. | |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 20:22 - Feb 5 with 1768 views | Juggsy |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 14:07 - Feb 5 by homer_123 |
Our current style under KM is possession based but anyone who thinks it's possession for possessions sake is mistaken.
There is real purpose with the way we move and use the ball...probing and stretching the opposition to create space or overloads.
In addition we use direct balls to our wide players very effectively with bothe defenders and deep lying midfielders encouraged to pick longer more direct passes.
The difference in effectiveness when compared to previous managers is night and day.
We are struggling, no question but I would not want to see any changes in personnel at all. |
I think there was real purpose to our play early on, but it all seems to have very much gone to possession for possession sake recently. Our play has certainly become a lot more lethargic as the season has progressed. Too often sideways or backwards passing then getting caught out - we have become a bit pedestrian and predicatable to play against which shows in the results. |  | | |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 20:42 - Feb 5 with 1744 views | MaySixth |
Thanks but this is not what is happening at Ipswich Town Football Club. |  |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 08:22 - Feb 6 with 1596 views | thebooks |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 12:17 - Feb 5 by Steve_M |
Thanks but that’s really not the same as is happening here despite some similarities. What we’re doing is working well enough at home and was away at the start of the season, it needs some refinement but it’s not true that the only way to get out of this division is the Gareth Ainsworth way.
And frankly if the answer for us is to give up everything we’ve done positively over the last year and revert to sh1t, attritional football then I’m not interested. We’ve tried the old school manager approach here multiple times and only one of them was any good. |
That's not what they're saying. We lack a plan B, and it sounds like Stockport found that while still playing some good stuff.
Derby play good stuff but know how to win as well. Paul Warne would be an example of a manager who would have been a good fit here, I think.
I'd add the other problem we have is the inability to build momentum over a season, another indefinable skill a more experienced manager might be able to bring.
Where I differ is that Ruskball - which is basically Lambertball - is not what McKenna has us playing.
KM has a lot of credit - compare us to how shambolic we were under Lambert and Cook - but it's fair to question him as we don't want to drift out of contention and limp through the playoffs. [Post edited 6 Feb 2023 8:26]
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 08:24 - Feb 6 with 1585 views | bobbyramsey |
Downvoted in error… |  | | |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 08:38 - Feb 6 with 1565 views | Ely_Blue |
Does this highlight the fact that maybe KM needs an experienced and savvy assistant who knows how to mix it up and have a plan b for the teams who don’t want to play as you say? |  |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 08:39 - Feb 6 with 1563 views | itfcjoe |
I think you have conflated playing good football and not always getting the deserved breaks vs playing passing football and then written an opus to try and justify this initial mistaken premise |  |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 08:41 - Feb 6 with 1543 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 08:39 - Feb 6 by itfcjoe |
I think you have conflated playing good football and not always getting the deserved breaks vs playing passing football and then written an opus to try and justify this initial mistaken premise |
"ootball and not always getting the deserved breaks"
3 months is a long time of not getting deserved breaks.
You saying 4 wins in 3 months is just because of bad luck? |  |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 08:58 - Feb 6 with 1524 views | Bobbychase |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 14:07 - Feb 5 by homer_123 |
Our current style under KM is possession based but anyone who thinks it's possession for possessions sake is mistaken.
There is real purpose with the way we move and use the ball...probing and stretching the opposition to create space or overloads.
In addition we use direct balls to our wide players very effectively with bothe defenders and deep lying midfielders encouraged to pick longer more direct passes.
The difference in effectiveness when compared to previous managers is night and day.
We are struggling, no question but I would not want to see any changes in personnel at all. |
And we are averaging ridiculous crowds for League One, closing in on 26,000. If we played pretty football with no end product, I don't think they would be that high. |  |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 09:06 - Feb 6 with 1518 views | Charlie_pl_baxter |
Might already have been said but the big difference is that we are seeing progression. Finished 12th last year and likely to make the playoffs at worst this year. |  |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 09:14 - Feb 6 with 1502 views | mrfixit426 |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 08:38 - Feb 6 by Ely_Blue |
Does this highlight the fact that maybe KM needs an experienced and savvy assistant who knows how to mix it up and have a plan b for the teams who don’t want to play as you say? |
This is a good point. The most successful managers are usually enhanced by their assistants. See examples like Burley and Roberts, Cook and Richardson and going back even further, Clough and Taylor.
None of these managers were as effective without their support.
McKenna is a great coach, and a really good manager in the making, but perhaps what is needed here is a number two with a way of looking at games from a different perspective. |  | | |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 09:20 - Feb 6 with 1497 views | Bobbychase |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 09:14 - Feb 6 by mrfixit426 |
This is a good point. The most successful managers are usually enhanced by their assistants. See examples like Burley and Roberts, Cook and Richardson and going back even further, Clough and Taylor.
None of these managers were as effective without their support.
McKenna is a great coach, and a really good manager in the making, but perhaps what is needed here is a number two with a way of looking at games from a different perspective. |
Have seen this argument a lot, with names like Butcher chucked in. Two things.
A: Has to be someone McKenna respects and wants to work with
B: What if he's happy with his current coaching set up? He's not short of people around him. Do we alienate the best manager we've had for years by forcing him to work with someone he hasn't chosen?
Non-starter for me. | |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 10:11 - Feb 6 with 1446 views | mrfixit426 |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 09:20 - Feb 6 by Bobbychase |
Have seen this argument a lot, with names like Butcher chucked in. Two things.
A: Has to be someone McKenna respects and wants to work with
B: What if he's happy with his current coaching set up? He's not short of people around him. Do we alienate the best manager we've had for years by forcing him to work with someone he hasn't chosen?
Non-starter for me. |
I agree. It's not going to happen.
I was just speculating as to why we're dropping short over the last few months. Butcher is certainly not a name I would be dropping in. | | | |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 10:18 - Feb 6 with 1434 views | Bobbychase |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 10:11 - Feb 6 by mrfixit426 |
I agree. It's not going to happen.
I was just speculating as to why we're dropping short over the last few months. Butcher is certainly not a name I would be dropping in. |
Yeah, should have made it clear it wasn't you saying it.
I've seen Mills and Burley mentioned too, seeing as they are "around the place".
Let McKenna manage, he's earned the right. | |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 10:31 - Feb 6 with 1420 views | OldFart71 |
An interesting read and whilst most Town fans applaud the style McKenna has introduced rather than that of a Mick McCarthy it wouldn't go amiss to have certain traits of a McCarthy team and that is a bit of bloody mindeness and getting stuck into teams, mixing it up a bit. I do feel we lack a Cole Skuse type player, sweeping up behind the midfield, giving a bit more protection to the defence. We possibly also lack a genuine winger and if promoted a decent centreback. | | | |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 11:01 - Feb 6 with 1395 views | itfcjoe |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 08:41 - Feb 6 by FrimleyBlue |
"ootball and not always getting the deserved breaks"
3 months is a long time of not getting deserved breaks.
You saying 4 wins in 3 months is just because of bad luck? |
No, I'm saying it's fairly obvious we've not got what we deserved in a number of games this season, including in the last 3 months | |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 11:09 - Feb 6 with 1361 views | braveblue |
Couldn’t disagree more. No reason why it should happen here. We have a very good side and are 3rd in league. Win on Saturday and three points of auto promotion.
If we don’t go up then give the manager at least another year. We are so much better than we have been for years. | | | |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 11:10 - Feb 6 with 1353 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 08:39 - Feb 6 by itfcjoe |
I think you have conflated playing good football and not always getting the deserved breaks vs playing passing football and then written an opus to try and justify this initial mistaken premise |
Sorry but that's rubbish, not getting the deserved breaks is something you could say for a game, or even two.... its been months and we are fast going backwards.
Stop the tippy tappy, backwards/sidewards passing and be more aggressive and direct, I don't mean a-la Wycombe, but we need to mix it up a bit! |  |
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 11:17 - Feb 6 with 1328 views | itfcjoe |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 11:10 - Feb 6 by Wallingford_Boy |
Sorry but that's rubbish, not getting the deserved breaks is something you could say for a game, or even two.... its been months and we are fast going backwards.
Stop the tippy tappy, backwards/sidewards passing and be more aggressive and direct, I don't mean a-la Wycombe, but we need to mix it up a bit! |
We aren't going backwards fast are we though? Our last 3 games were battering Morecambe, a very good performance against the runaway Championship leaders and then a poor one we chucked in on Saturday.
Our points return hasn't been good enough, and our away form has struggled since Charlton but we don't get what we deserve most weeks - Saturday an exception to that where we didn't do enough
How many poor performances have we put in on this bad run, or even this season - maybe 4 or 5? [Post edited 6 Feb 2023 11:18]
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| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 11:26 - Feb 6 with 1292 views | AndrewRatcliffITFC |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 19:25 - Feb 5 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Always good to find agreements.
Im still very happy with McKenna, he's not faultless by any means and I think at times his in game management has been questionable, but hes still learning and im ok with that. This will be a big test for him as a coach and as a person i'm sure, but I think we have got a good one. Just need to ride this storm and see where we are come may, if its play offs, let it be play offs. But in terms of on pitch, just have to be more clinical in both boxes. Its not at all impossible that all of a sudden our shots start flying in and we win 5 on the bounce. Football is a funny old game. |
What shots? | | | |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 12:48 - Feb 6 with 1232 views | sjg |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 11:17 - Feb 6 by itfcjoe |
We aren't going backwards fast are we though? Our last 3 games were battering Morecambe, a very good performance against the runaway Championship leaders and then a poor one we chucked in on Saturday.
Our points return hasn't been good enough, and our away form has struggled since Charlton but we don't get what we deserve most weeks - Saturday an exception to that where we didn't do enough
How many poor performances have we put in on this bad run, or even this season - maybe 4 or 5? [Post edited 6 Feb 2023 11:18]
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Unfortunately, you don't get promoted based on performances, you get promoted based on results. As such, it is perfectly legitimate to question a system which has underperformed in that regard.
McKenna's reluctance to change his tactics (not quite to the level of previous managers, but to an extent which is beginning to become frustrating) is something that we should be questioning. Why are so many goals given away late in games, what can we do to stop this? Is our balance between attack and defence correct?
I think the fact that our most significant downturn in form this season has come when Lee Evans has replaced Cameron Humphreys in the side is no coincidence - I think we are completely lacking in midfield with Morsy and Evans. Evans plays so deep in a role which is very pleasing on the eye, but in reality is ineffective. Is Woolfenden incapable of playing many of the passes which Evans plays, which would enable us to play with another body slightly further forward a la Humphreys?
I think this issue has been highlighted most effectively in McKenna's reluctance to change his system when he clearly felt there was a need to change the team - in the game vs Morecambe. In order to sure up the defence, McKenna changed our two centre backs (in my view, 2 of our most consistent performers all season). We are now in the same position as we were after the Oxford game - we know that something needs to change, but we don't know what - leading up to our (again) biggest game of the season. The Morecambe game was the perfect chance for us to experiment tactically against one of the weaker sides in the league. | | | |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 12:52 - Feb 6 with 1224 views | itfcjoe |
| Ipswich are playing Ruskball — and it won’t succeed on 12:48 - Feb 6 by sjg |
Unfortunately, you don't get promoted based on performances, you get promoted based on results. As such, it is perfectly legitimate to question a system which has underperformed in that regard.
McKenna's reluctance to change his tactics (not quite to the level of previous managers, but to an extent which is beginning to become frustrating) is something that we should be questioning. Why are so many goals given away late in games, what can we do to stop this? Is our balance between attack and defence correct?
I think the fact that our most significant downturn in form this season has come when Lee Evans has replaced Cameron Humphreys in the side is no coincidence - I think we are completely lacking in midfield with Morsy and Evans. Evans plays so deep in a role which is very pleasing on the eye, but in reality is ineffective. Is Woolfenden incapable of playing many of the passes which Evans plays, which would enable us to play with another body slightly further forward a la Humphreys?
I think this issue has been highlighted most effectively in McKenna's reluctance to change his system when he clearly felt there was a need to change the team - in the game vs Morecambe. In order to sure up the defence, McKenna changed our two centre backs (in my view, 2 of our most consistent performers all season). We are now in the same position as we were after the Oxford game - we know that something needs to change, but we don't know what - leading up to our (again) biggest game of the season. The Morecambe game was the perfect chance for us to experiment tactically against one of the weaker sides in the league. |
I think McK has been fairly flexible with tactics, but more in a Mick way of more subtle adjustments in game to try and pick up on weaknesses here and there.
I agree with the balance in midfield - Sam Morsy an excellent player and a first name on the teamsheet, but at times he doesn't fit into what we need so we need to adapt that midfield to ensure he does. Lee Evans for me lacks mobility but again needs to have his strengths shown off when in recent games he is having his weaknesses exposed.
We lack a Cole Skuse style metronome, someone who sits in with the CBs and just lets the full backs push on and everyone else play - someone who is there to snuff out danger first and foremost. I think Morsy is too 'active' for that role and that Evans doesn't read it well enough. Dom Ball may have been the player who could/can do that but we've not seen any of him really | |
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