| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 01:17 - Feb 7 with 1144 views | Kievthegreat |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 19:33 - Feb 6 by andytown |
Didn’t this happen in the criminal damage case at Bristol last year(?). 4 people were charged with toppling Colton’s statue and they admitted it, jury said not guilty as they accepted their defence. Don’t remember exactly what it was, but iirc it caused quite a stir as the jury had returned the ‘wrong’ verdict. |
It's more complicated just being wrong. In the 1800s in America, if a slave escaped to the North, they would be required to be returned to their 'rightful' owner. Plus anyone who gave them assistance or shelter them would be committing a crime of harbouring a fugitive. However Northern juries routinely found such people not guilty. If you judge only on facts, then all such decisions were wrong. Clearly anyone who helped a fleeing slave was a criminal. However their peers have the final say, and they can if they chose decide to apply corrections to laws they deem unjust.
Should also note that it can go ways we today would deem horrific. There are instances where lynch mobs in the south would be found not guilty under the same jury vigilantism. |  | |  |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 11:18 - Feb 7 with 1046 views | ElephantintheRoom |
The judge always sums up the evidence and gives helpful pointers about reasonable doubt. It’s his or her duty to try and prevent a travesty brought about by 12 bored people not listening to or understanding what they’ve been sitting through |  |
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| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 12:19 - Feb 7 with 997 views | Oldsmoker |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 21:55 - Feb 6 by Swansea_Blue |
He looks a wrong un. It’s so easy to tell as well. 99% of these arseholes you can tell they’re wrong just by looking at them. We should lock up all dodgy looking people. It would be far easier and cheaper than having a trial, and just tough luck on the 1% who look wrong but aren’t. You can make an omelette and all that… |
I know I've argued with you a few times on here but this?
I know I'm a wrong'un, the black sheep of the family, the anyone-who-has-a-mullet-is-definitely-a-dodgy guy but this? |  |
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| Judge directs jury to find Guilty (n/t) on 10:19 - Aug 9 with 783 views | DJR |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 17:55 - Feb 6 by factual_blue |
I daresay others have probably already explained, but (based on my reading of the BBC report).
1. He admitted killing the victims.
2. He claimed diminished responsibility due to mental impairment.
3. He therefore denied murder.
4. No supporting evidence was produced that backed up his assertion of being a loony.
5. In the absence of corroboration, the judge rightly told the jury that the claim of diminished responsibility must fail and that, as he admitted the killings, the defendant must be guilty of murder.
6. In other words, if you're claiming you're a loony, make sure you can back it up with something other than pencils up your nose and underpants on your head. |
EDIT: I somehow managed to click on this thread and revive it when I didn't mean to but I notice I contributed to it at the time. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 10:55]
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| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 10:39 - Aug 9 with 746 views | MattinLondon |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 12:51 - Feb 6 by Samuelowen88 |
Does that not take away a fair trial by a jury of your peers? If the jury is not free to make their own decision ? |
The jury system seems a tad ridiculous to me especially in complicated cases where juries seat for weeks on end, hearing a lot of evidence and having the mental capability of retaining all of it. |  | | |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 10:55 - Aug 9 with 727 views | Zx1988 |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 10:39 - Aug 9 by MattinLondon |
The jury system seems a tad ridiculous to me especially in complicated cases where juries seat for weeks on end, hearing a lot of evidence and having the mental capability of retaining all of it. |
I was thinking the same yesterday concerning the Lucy Letby trial (and jury trials in general).
Without getting in to the ins and outs of the case, it seems a little contrary to the whole principle of 'beyond reasonable doubt' that a judge can direct a jury to reach a majority verdict on a 11-1 or 10-2 basis.
To my mind the requirement for a majority verdict simply shows that a reasonable doubt exists. | |
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| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 10:59 - Aug 9 with 722 views | MattinLondon |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 10:55 - Aug 9 by Zx1988 |
I was thinking the same yesterday concerning the Lucy Letby trial (and jury trials in general).
Without getting in to the ins and outs of the case, it seems a little contrary to the whole principle of 'beyond reasonable doubt' that a judge can direct a jury to reach a majority verdict on a 11-1 or 10-2 basis.
To my mind the requirement for a majority verdict simply shows that a reasonable doubt exists. |
That trial has been going on for eight months - how on earth are people supposed to retain all of that information? Even if all jury members are intelligent that’s still a lot to retain. | | | |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 11:01 - Aug 9 with 722 views | DJR |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 10:55 - Aug 9 by Zx1988 |
I was thinking the same yesterday concerning the Lucy Letby trial (and jury trials in general).
Without getting in to the ins and outs of the case, it seems a little contrary to the whole principle of 'beyond reasonable doubt' that a judge can direct a jury to reach a majority verdict on a 11-1 or 10-2 basis.
To my mind the requirement for a majority verdict simply shows that a reasonable doubt exists. |
I've never sat on a jury but, speaking as a lawyer, I've always had my misgivings, having seen a case involving an Ipswich prostitute who claimed a US serviceman had pulled a knife on her.
The serviceman got off, but I felt he had committed the act, and that the jury were unduly influenced by the "good" serviceman and "bad" prostitute.
I also wonder what effect very forceful people have on the rest of a jury. | | | |
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| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 11:09 - Aug 9 with 708 views | lowhouseblue |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 12:58 - Feb 6 by Darth_Koont |
The defendant has admitted to the killings and the only question is the defence of diminished responsibility. But that’s not for the jury to decide and presumably it’s a psychiatric/expert evaluation.
So the jury needs to complete the formality of finding him guilty on those counts and then move on. |
the jury gets to assess the evidence of an expert witness. a judge's direction would be on a point of law. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 11:11 - Aug 9 with 698 views | Zx1988 |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 11:01 - Aug 9 by DJR |
I've never sat on a jury but, speaking as a lawyer, I've always had my misgivings, having seen a case involving an Ipswich prostitute who claimed a US serviceman had pulled a knife on her.
The serviceman got off, but I felt he had committed the act, and that the jury were unduly influenced by the "good" serviceman and "bad" prostitute.
I also wonder what effect very forceful people have on the rest of a jury. |
I saw a very similar thing when I spent a morning sat in a magistrates' court during my degree.
They were hearing traffic offences, and there was a US serviceman up for some infringement, followed by an Eastern European tradesman for the same thing.
The USAF chap, in full uniform, got off with a slap on the wrist, whilst the Eastern European chap had the book thrown at him. | |
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| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 11:43 - Aug 9 with 661 views | Meadowlark |
I wonder why you have put this on a football forum? |  | | |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 12:04 - Aug 9 with 623 views | MattinLondon |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 11:43 - Aug 9 by Meadowlark |
I wonder why you have put this on a football forum? |
Most football forums have a football tab and then other tabs for non-football related subjects. Anyone would think that people like to discuss things other than football. I know, it’s strange isn’t it. | | | |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 13:41 - Aug 9 with 572 views | HARRY10 |
It is down to the jury, as they can ignore the judges' direction.
Something he/she can do, not ultimately the jury decides on guilt or not. | | | |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 14:03 - Aug 9 with 558 views | Ryorry |
If people had read the link, they’d have seen that a forensic psychologist had met the defendant several times, and written a report saying there was no evidence of him having any mental illness.
As the jury presumably didn’t have any such expertise, the psychologist’s evidence was obviously deemed to over-ride the less informed opinions of lay people that constituted the jury. |  |
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| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 14:42 - Aug 9 with 524 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Judge directs jury to find Guilty on 12:19 - Feb 7 by Oldsmoker |
I know I've argued with you a few times on here but this?
I know I'm a wrong'un, the black sheep of the family, the anyone-who-has-a-mullet-is-definitely-a-dodgy guy but this? |
Socks with sandals? Lock 'em up. |  |
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