| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. 22:44 - Feb 14 with 16924 views | GlasgowBlue |
KM came in last year when the club was at its lowest ebb. We were badly underperforming and the defeat to Charlton was as low as it could get.
He had an instant positive effect and got a talented squad playing some lovely football, and we had belief back in the team. Everything coming out of the dressing room suggested that training was far better and that the new manager was like a great of fresh air. This was even said by players after he let them go, like a Norwood and Bonne.
That carried over to this season and we got off to a flyer. Joe will have the exact stats but after 46 games McKenna had us on something like 88 points. Just short of automatic promotion form.
Everything looked good. Ok we had a dip in form, illness and injuries but got ourselves back to the top of the table a week before Christmas. Despite a defeat to Wycombe we followed it up with a convincing Boxing Day thrashing of Oxford, playing sone of our best football of the season.
There was nothing to suggest that we would take a massive dip in form. But we did. Maybe the cup games papered over the cracks, but we weren’t playing with the same intensity and confidence as the first third of the season.
Something has changed within the team. Is it a lack of confidence? And if so where has that come from? I don’t agree that we haven’t got over Charlton, as we had some good results after that game, though not enough. Was it the last minute equaliser at home to Plymouth? That really seems to have knocked the stuffing out of us.
Is it the constant tinkering with our central defence? I understand why he’s done it because as individuals all of our central defenders have been culpable in giving away some very easy goals.
Is it the midfield? Before Evans first injury, him and Morsy were running the show. Humphreys came in and played some good games but Morsy’s game seemed to suffer. He was having to do so much more work to cover for a talented but inexperienced youngster. When Evans came back, he wasn’t the same players as the one we saw pre injury. And now he’s out again. Morsy looks absolutely knackered playing on a Saturday and Tuesday.
One thing I have noticed in recent games is that our midfield isn’t as dynamic and dominant as in previous games. They set the tempo for the rest of the team and we no longer play with pace and intensity. Everything seems to have slowed down. We’ve even started to pump long balls from the back and completely bypass the midfield.
Does anyone else have a view on why we have hit a brick wall and started drawing games instead of winning them?
[Post edited 14 Feb 2023 22:48]
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 18:01 - Apr 30 with 2388 views | ibbleobble |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 10:45 - Feb 17 by mrfixit426 |
Exactly. "No plan B" is such an over-simplified, dumbed down term thrown out by supporters with likely a very rudimentary knowledge of the game.
A professional club works on different shapes and movement every week, and has plans for different scenarios and situations.
"Just play two up top," reduces the whole thing to a game of FIFA. |
Or not which is why our results stagnated. I think some of these comments are quite apt for that 2 wins in 11 period. We did look a little one dimensional all too often. It was really the January additions and the post bedding in period that gave us the added dimension and dynamism. [Post edited 30 Apr 2023 18:25]
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 18:17 - Apr 30 with 2298 views | PioneerBlue |
Very glad that I never got involved with a post of this type. It is a lesson on not taking a season long view, being to hasty to over analyse situations, and it allows me to come in here during late April to say, it was never in doubt, it was clear as day that we would find a way to get out the league one way or other. And so it have proved. Next season will be very different, if people can’t stick through the smooth and the rough then purgatory or a similar state awaits. End. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 18:18 - Apr 30 with 2295 views | mrfixit426 |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 18:01 - Apr 30 by ibbleobble |
Or not which is why our results stagnated. I think some of these comments are quite apt for that 2 wins in 11 period. We did look a little one dimensional all too often. It was really the January additions and the post bedding in period that gave us the added dimension and dynamism. [Post edited 30 Apr 2023 18:25]
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No, they weren't apt. They were based on looking at results and guessing at simple reasons why we weren't winning every game. It's a tough league, especially when teams set out to stifle your play. It's not as easy as switching a formation and everything will be fine.
You could see that small details were constantly changing throughout games, you just had to look for it. McKennas WAS learning on the job, and League 1 maybe came as a bit of a surprise, but it didn't take long to lock everything down and really go for it though, did it. Also remember we still have only lost 4 games all season, even through the period of "stagnation" as you call it. That's incredible.
It's also a game where fine margins account for success or perceived failure. We didn't get the rub of the green for long periods of the season, until we did. Some of these comments looking back are embarrassing.
Anyway, we're up. Now the real work starts. |  | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 18:32 - Apr 30 with 2235 views | ibbleobble |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 18:18 - Apr 30 by mrfixit426 |
No, they weren't apt. They were based on looking at results and guessing at simple reasons why we weren't winning every game. It's a tough league, especially when teams set out to stifle your play. It's not as easy as switching a formation and everything will be fine.
You could see that small details were constantly changing throughout games, you just had to look for it. McKennas WAS learning on the job, and League 1 maybe came as a bit of a surprise, but it didn't take long to lock everything down and really go for it though, did it. Also remember we still have only lost 4 games all season, even through the period of "stagnation" as you call it. That's incredible.
It's also a game where fine margins account for success or perceived failure. We didn't get the rub of the green for long periods of the season, until we did. Some of these comments looking back are embarrassing.
Anyway, we're up. Now the real work starts. |
You seem to assume no-one knows anything about what their watching and makes guesses, which is a big sweeping generalisation. Small details don’t account for a back-up plan. Our new signings were that good we rarely needed a back-up and the little tweaks worked well; prior to that, they misfired a little. Donacien being replaced for Clarke is a perfect example of how we moved up a gear and had different options. | | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 19:14 - Apr 30 with 2152 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 07:42 - Feb 15 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Must admit I thought he was a good signing at the time, as an experienced short term option covering Ball and Camara until they were back
However that belief was based on the assumption that he was basically ready to play, which has clearly turned out to be wrong, so now the signing is just looking bizarre |
Seeing as someone has bumped this thread, feel free to file this under takes that have aged like milk! |  |
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| How did this get 16 upvotes!! But isn’t the main thing here that town fans were on 19:26 - Apr 30 with 2130 views | unstableblue |
….. just so incredibly jaded by the sh!t they’d put up with under Evans and the like of Keane, Jewell, Mick, Hirst, Lampard…. That they just couldn’t ‘trust the process’ and ‘believe in the project’
That’s what McKenna and Ashton pleaded with us to do
Now for me… because I fully backed McKenna and didn’t get sucked into the awful vibe after Bristol away … I never felt this league was easy… nor an absolute necessity to go up with this year
We just needed to see real progress
The good news is that now these fans who were justified to be cynical are now fully onboard and some of these incredible performances have everyone on the same bus [Post edited 30 Apr 2023 19:30]
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| How did this get 16 upvotes!! But isn’t the main thing here that town fans wer on 19:33 - Apr 30 with 2118 views | GlasgowBlue |
| How did this get 16 upvotes!! But isn’t the main thing here that town fans were on 19:26 - Apr 30 by unstableblue |
….. just so incredibly jaded by the sh!t they’d put up with under Evans and the like of Keane, Jewell, Mick, Hirst, Lampard…. That they just couldn’t ‘trust the process’ and ‘believe in the project’
That’s what McKenna and Ashton pleaded with us to do
Now for me… because I fully backed McKenna and didn’t get sucked into the awful vibe after Bristol away … I never felt this league was easy… nor an absolute necessity to go up with this year
We just needed to see real progress
The good news is that now these fans who were justified to be cynical are now fully onboard and some of these incredible performances have everyone on the same bus [Post edited 30 Apr 2023 19:30]
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It got 16 up votes because it was a thread designed for the purpose of having a grown up conversation about where were on the 14 February, after me getting fed up of seeing numerous panic threads wanting McKenna sacked and others saying we wouldn't even make the play offs.
It was a positive post which was 100% behind KM and the team, and was an open discussion about how things could improve.
My main points, playing with a settled eleven, staying with a settled central defensive partnership and Morsy having a more experienced partner thn Humphries has played a major part in our turnaround. | |
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| How did this get 16 upvotes!! But isn’t the main thing here that town fans wer on 19:50 - Apr 30 with 2048 views | Stewart27 |
| How did this get 16 upvotes!! But isn’t the main thing here that town fans wer on 19:33 - Apr 30 by GlasgowBlue |
It got 16 up votes because it was a thread designed for the purpose of having a grown up conversation about where were on the 14 February, after me getting fed up of seeing numerous panic threads wanting McKenna sacked and others saying we wouldn't even make the play offs.
It was a positive post which was 100% behind KM and the team, and was an open discussion about how things could improve.
My main points, playing with a settled eleven, staying with a settled central defensive partnership and Morsy having a more experienced partner thn Humphries has played a major part in our turnaround. |
Fair point on your OP.
I think it’s more about the comments that follow on this thread.
Let’s just bookmark this with the hope that as soon as we hit a bit of adversity next year (which we definitely will) certain people can be a little bit more tolerable and trust the process.
Most people who darkened our doors on February 14th are not to be seen or heard any more which speaks volumes really. | | | |
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| How did this get 16 upvotes!! But isn’t the main thing here that town fans wer on 19:52 - Apr 30 with 2038 views | unstableblue |
| How did this get 16 upvotes!! But isn’t the main thing here that town fans wer on 19:33 - Apr 30 by GlasgowBlue |
It got 16 up votes because it was a thread designed for the purpose of having a grown up conversation about where were on the 14 February, after me getting fed up of seeing numerous panic threads wanting McKenna sacked and others saying we wouldn't even make the play offs.
It was a positive post which was 100% behind KM and the team, and was an open discussion about how things could improve.
My main points, playing with a settled eleven, staying with a settled central defensive partnership and Morsy having a more experienced partner thn Humphries has played a major part in our turnaround. |
Fair enough Glasgow
I re-read and I think you were trying to get to the root cause of what had gone wrong, rather than questioning the manager or project
Which was essentially injuries and a lack of form that was messing us up, and perhaps a lack of variety in our attacking approach… which our manager changed
But again our manager and CEO were saying just trust the process and the project and they made the changes necessary AND BOOOM!
Again the main point of my post was to actually say that it was justified for our fans to have a lack of patience and resilience given the utter sh!t we’d put up for at least a decade | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 19:54 - Apr 30 with 2032 views | Funge |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 19:14 - Apr 30 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Seeing as someone has bumped this thread, feel free to file this under takes that have aged like milk! |
Haha - hope you enjoyed yesterday as much as I did, pal |  | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 20:04 - Apr 30 with 1995 views | J2BLUE |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 18:17 - Apr 30 by PioneerBlue |
Very glad that I never got involved with a post of this type. It is a lesson on not taking a season long view, being to hasty to over analyse situations, and it allows me to come in here during late April to say, it was never in doubt, it was clear as day that we would find a way to get out the league one way or other. And so it have proved. Next season will be very different, if people can’t stick through the smooth and the rough then purgatory or a similar state awaits. End. |
Always a bit odd when threads like this are suddenly brought back with the benefit of hindsight.
I think my post on page 2 was absolutely fine. Since then we've become absolutely ruthless and never stop attacking. Exactly what I was asking for. |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 20:18 - Apr 30 with 1938 views | 765765 |
This is all a perfect example of how judgemental and fickle fans can be, with largely absolutely no knowledge of what professional sports is like and what the people involved have to do and deal with, from ownership to managers to support staff to players. All being well a few of us will learn from the experience. Me included. | | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 20:25 - Apr 30 with 1879 views | lowhouseblue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 20:18 - Apr 30 by 765765 |
This is all a perfect example of how judgemental and fickle fans can be, with largely absolutely no knowledge of what professional sports is like and what the people involved have to do and deal with, from ownership to managers to support staff to players. All being well a few of us will learn from the experience. Me included. |
i also think that failing to foresee just about the best run of form across european clubs is excusable. it was all starting to look a long shot in feb. and what has followed is close miraculous. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 20:38 - Apr 30 with 1847 views | Churchman |
I didn’t join in this thread but spewed plenty of negativity in other threads despite being supportive of Km. I tried always to differentiate between the big picture i.e. the club growing and moving forwards and the short term - a team struggling to finish off games.
With hindsight, part of the benefit of a forum like this is that people can vent their frustrations in the heat of the moment or cold light of day. The common factor is that we are all supporters, desperate to see the team do well after so long in the wilderness. This season has been the first step.
As far as I’m concerned, conversation closed. |  | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 20:49 - Apr 30 with 1809 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 20:38 - Apr 30 by Churchman |
I didn’t join in this thread but spewed plenty of negativity in other threads despite being supportive of Km. I tried always to differentiate between the big picture i.e. the club growing and moving forwards and the short term - a team struggling to finish off games.
With hindsight, part of the benefit of a forum like this is that people can vent their frustrations in the heat of the moment or cold light of day. The common factor is that we are all supporters, desperate to see the team do well after so long in the wilderness. This season has been the first step.
As far as I’m concerned, conversation closed. |
I was critical too at times, but my ire was focussed on our inability to finish off chances. We were always making plenty of them but went through a phase of being really wasteful. Freddie especially was missing sitters, but he wasn’t the only one as Wes was poor for a while and Harness went right off the boil too. Hirst and Broady couldn’t have come soon enough. Their extra quality (and Luongo anchoring the midfield) turned out season around. Clarke’s dynamism suring up the right and adding a bit of drive shouldn’t be understated too (love Janoi though - he’s unlucky to miss out).
The questioning McKenna stuff was just nuts though, as we were playing well apart from being toothless. Anyone who went down that route needed their head testing. |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 09:04 - May 1 with 1512 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 20:04 - Apr 30 by J2BLUE |
Always a bit odd when threads like this are suddenly brought back with the benefit of hindsight.
I think my post on page 2 was absolutely fine. Since then we've become absolutely ruthless and never stop attacking. Exactly what I was asking for. |
"Always a bit odd when threads like this are suddenly brought back with the benefit of hindsight."
To an extent. However, when I was, for example, saying to McCall you need to give Hirst more time, he's only made 2 starts and 4 sub appearances, that's foresight not hindsight.
The lesson from this thread, which is something I've banged on about for years, is patience. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 09:59 - May 1 with 1449 views | J2BLUE |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 09:04 - May 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"Always a bit odd when threads like this are suddenly brought back with the benefit of hindsight."
To an extent. However, when I was, for example, saying to McCall you need to give Hirst more time, he's only made 2 starts and 4 sub appearances, that's foresight not hindsight.
The lesson from this thread, which is something I've banged on about for years, is patience. |
Still think that's hindsight. At the time this thread was made we were running out of time if we wanted to challenge for the top 2. No one was calling for McKenna's head. It was a discussion about what was going wrong. Many of the points raised have been fixed and contributed massively to the incredible run we've been on. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 10:29 - May 1 with 1376 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 09:59 - May 1 by J2BLUE |
Still think that's hindsight. At the time this thread was made we were running out of time if we wanted to challenge for the top 2. No one was calling for McKenna's head. It was a discussion about what was going wrong. Many of the points raised have been fixed and contributed massively to the incredible run we've been on. |
The point I was making was about Hirst though. It's not hindsight to say you should give a player time to settle in, get his fitness up and get an understanding with his new team mates. That's just common sense!
Oh and yes, there were a few calling for McKenna's head. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 10:36 - May 1 with 1366 views | J2BLUE |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 10:29 - May 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The point I was making was about Hirst though. It's not hindsight to say you should give a player time to settle in, get his fitness up and get an understanding with his new team mates. That's just common sense!
Oh and yes, there were a few calling for McKenna's head. |
Of course that is common sense. I don't remember anyone really criticising him. I think I remember saying Ladapo was undisputedly our #1 striker based on what I had seen at the time which was fact. Anyone who saw Hirst at Portsmouth isn't really surprised that he has made that place in the team his own.
A few maybe but the exact few you would likely have predicted.
I take your point about patience. I also thing people saying they are glad they didn't comment is a bit silly though. You can only go by what you see. If very mild threads like this are going to be brought back to life to have digs it will soon be a dull forum. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 10:39 - May 1 with 1345 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 10:36 - May 1 by J2BLUE |
Of course that is common sense. I don't remember anyone really criticising him. I think I remember saying Ladapo was undisputedly our #1 striker based on what I had seen at the time which was fact. Anyone who saw Hirst at Portsmouth isn't really surprised that he has made that place in the team his own.
A few maybe but the exact few you would likely have predicted.
I take your point about patience. I also thing people saying they are glad they didn't comment is a bit silly though. You can only go by what you see. If very mild threads like this are going to be brought back to life to have digs it will soon be a dull forum. |
"I don't remember anyone really criticising him."
You only have to look back a page on this thread! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 10:40 - May 1 with 1338 views | J2BLUE |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 10:39 - May 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"I don't remember anyone really criticising him."
You only have to look back a page on this thread! |
I'll have a re-read through after work. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 11:28 - May 1 with 1285 views | Vegtablue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 10:40 - May 1 by J2BLUE |
I'll have a re-read through after work. |
My memory of the time is the board being split down the middle as to whether McKenna was a) simply on an unfortunate run that will inevitably iron itself out, or b) showing his tactical inflexibility / immaturity in failing to adapt to what opposition sides were implementing against us: the dreaded low block. By the time of the Bristol Rovers draw, the small majority felt he wasn't using the squad as effectively as he could be.
'McKenna in' remained the overwhelming majority position. You could probably split the 'normals' (let's allow it 😅) into thirds in the days before our juggernaut went a-rolling: camp 1) the autos is very much still on, camp 2) we have every chance of finding our form for the playoffs, and camp 3) we'll be lucky to make them, let alone win them. Anyone calling for his head, even at our lowest point, still found themselves resoundingly ridiculed by even the majority membership of camp 3. | | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 19:15 - May 1 with 1176 views | mrfixit426 |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 18:32 - Apr 30 by ibbleobble |
You seem to assume no-one knows anything about what their watching and makes guesses, which is a big sweeping generalisation. Small details don’t account for a back-up plan. Our new signings were that good we rarely needed a back-up and the little tweaks worked well; prior to that, they misfired a little. Donacien being replaced for Clarke is a perfect example of how we moved up a gear and had different options. |
Exhibit A. | | | |
| How did this get 16 upvotes!! But isn’t the main thing here that town fans wer on 20:27 - May 1 with 1122 views | N2_Blue |
| How did this get 16 upvotes!! But isn’t the main thing here that town fans were on 19:26 - Apr 30 by unstableblue |
….. just so incredibly jaded by the sh!t they’d put up with under Evans and the like of Keane, Jewell, Mick, Hirst, Lampard…. That they just couldn’t ‘trust the process’ and ‘believe in the project’
That’s what McKenna and Ashton pleaded with us to do
Now for me… because I fully backed McKenna and didn’t get sucked into the awful vibe after Bristol away … I never felt this league was easy… nor an absolute necessity to go up with this year
We just needed to see real progress
The good news is that now these fans who were justified to be cynical are now fully onboard and some of these incredible performances have everyone on the same bus [Post edited 30 Apr 2023 19:30]
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I never stopped believing because I could see what McKenna was achieving. Even through the blip it was evident we were far better than the sides we were playing, we were just getting done by every chance we coughed up.
I think our previous promotions have been as champs or as playoff winners by N2_Blue 2 Feb 2023 13:57If you want to bookmark this, I’m still saying we’ll win the division. We’ll finish stronger than Weds, Plymouth and the rest. The bed wetting after a wobble (a pretty minor one at that) is typical of town fans that are starved of success. But this is very different, Keep the faith, it’s happening.
I said we win the division, maybe we won’t but I knew we were getting promoted |  |
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