| Was Brexit worth it? 11:27 - May 9 with 6757 views | MattinLondon |
I admit that in the past I’ve been quite abusive when describing Brexit. But, this is a genuine question and primarily aimed at people who would still vote for it.
By 2030, Poland could well overtake the UK economy and by 2040, both Bulgaria and Romania could well overtake the UK as well. Brexit and the Brexit deal is responsible for a lot of the economic damage. Was (is) Brexit worth it and if so why?
I’ve attached the bbc link -there are other links but decided to use that one.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64780112.amp |  | | |  |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:37 - May 9 with 1834 views | chicoazul |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 12:50 - May 9 by HARRY10 |
'Independent of the EU'. Just like a man jumping overboard on a cross Atlantic liner is free of is 'restrictions'.
The UK is still trading under EU schedules, and has only ratified one deal (Japan) which actually left it worse of. So it has become a rule taker with ni say in the making of thise rules.
Aside from the economics, UK citizens have now lost the freedom to live. Work and travel in the EU as they once did. As this works both ways, the UK has lost the cultural benefits of visits by foreign language students (never mind the money). Lost access to the Erasmus scheme. Similarly, the loss to performing artistes cuts both ways.
The so called 'independence' is that if someone banned from all football grounds claiming that he is independent, as he is no local bound by the agreed regulations of each ground.
"The EU is expected to delay introducing fingerprinting and facial recognition checks in Dover amid fears it could mar travel to next year’s summer Olympics in Paris." Not to benefit UK citizens, but because of the Olympics.
And Brexit has also brought the 'freedom' of having your fingerprints taken and being subject to 'facial recognition'. Something not even the lowliest of East Europeans is subject to. Where once goods and people moved freely and quickly, the UK has put up an 'iron curtain' and has now become the new pre 1990 Eastern Europe.
And this is no longer a warning, but a reality. As personal and recorded evidence clearly shows. |
Hence (sort of) Harold. |  |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:40 - May 9 with 1831 views | chicoazul |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:18 - May 9 by BlueBadger |
'Some of you will die but it's a price I'm willing to pay'. [Post edited 9 May 2023 13:19]
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People may die because of a diminished economy. Some also may die because of medical incompetence or mendaciousness for eg. So it’s not that simple even if you are. | |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:41 - May 9 with 1810 views | itfc_bucks |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:40 - May 9 by chicoazul |
People may die because of a diminished economy. Some also may die because of medical incompetence or mendaciousness for eg. So it’s not that simple even if you are. |
At risk of badgering on, what are these benefits, which you feel are worth that diminished economy? |  | | |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:43 - May 9 with 1806 views | BlueBadger |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:40 - May 9 by chicoazul |
People may die because of a diminished economy. Some also may die because of medical incompetence or mendaciousness for eg. So it’s not that simple even if you are. |
Most medical incompetence isn't a deliberate act and is usually as result of systemic failures and/or underfunding tho. Brexit IS the systemic failure.
And a deliberate one. [Post edited 9 May 2023 16:50]
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:44 - May 9 with 1797 views | chicoazul |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:41 - May 9 by itfc_bucks |
At risk of badgering on, what are these benefits, which you feel are worth that diminished economy? |
I didn’t say there were any benefits. Brexit is almost entirely downside. But for some, that’s worth it. | |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:57 - May 9 with 1761 views | backinbeige |
32 down, 999,999,968 to go |  |
| RVRB: https://app.rvrb.one/channels/have-guitar-will-listen -
Listen to music when WFH, set your own music to DJ and find new recommendations from others |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 14:01 - May 9 with 1747 views | giant_stow |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:28 - May 9 by HARRY10 |
The scenario you claim has been floating about for a good while, yet will not happen. It is nothing more than a scare story put out by brexiters that have little else to say. Remember all the guff pre the referendim what forecast the imminent break up of the EU ?
I am very surprised that someone claiming to be a Remainer should post up this stuff.
Maybe Tiwn should not accept promotion as there is a possibility that getting near to the PL may cause everyone's head to explode. |
Sorry to disappoint you Harry, but I can assure you I was part of the remainer tribe during many bitter debates on here at the time, so rest assured I'm not a ringer.
That there are unresolved and serious issues in the Eurozone is undeniable. Yes, it may never blow up (I did say 'maybe') but equally, it could all go to sh1t, especially with Italy and now France too.
To mention such things isn't partisan - just reflecting on a real problem. |  |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 14:15 - May 9 with 1700 views | HARRY10 |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 14:01 - May 9 by giant_stow |
Sorry to disappoint you Harry, but I can assure you I was part of the remainer tribe during many bitter debates on here at the time, so rest assured I'm not a ringer.
That there are unresolved and serious issues in the Eurozone is undeniable. Yes, it may never blow up (I did say 'maybe') but equally, it could all go to sh1t, especially with Italy and now France too.
To mention such things isn't partisan - just reflecting on a real problem. |
i never thought you were a leaver - if so, I would have said. I am not sure what the EU is supposed to have been issued with. But I do know the stuff you posted us an urban= myth peddled by leavers.
The imbalance between economies is always there. What the EU has done is allowed less developed, smaller economies to grow.
The ECB is quite capable of dealing with problems as they arise, as past actions have shown. We may get relegate from the Championship. That is not a reason for not accepting promotion.
Through Brexit, the UK has shut itself off from many of the benefits of free trade and movement, yet is still bound by EU regulation in its overseas trade. One new deal (Japan)is hardly what was promised. | | | |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 14:53 - May 9 with 1695 views | BlueBadger |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 12:33 - May 9 by Vaughan8 |
Let's be honest, most people voted to leave for the £350million a week to the NHS......and "to stop immigration".
Neither has worked on thos fronts |
'Stop immigration' has actively caused harm to the NHS as well, given that we, in effect, can't recruit from out nearest neighbours now. | |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 15:01 - May 9 with 1685 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 14:01 - May 9 by giant_stow |
Sorry to disappoint you Harry, but I can assure you I was part of the remainer tribe during many bitter debates on here at the time, so rest assured I'm not a ringer.
That there are unresolved and serious issues in the Eurozone is undeniable. Yes, it may never blow up (I did say 'maybe') but equally, it could all go to sh1t, especially with Italy and now France too.
To mention such things isn't partisan - just reflecting on a real problem. |
“To mention such things isn't partisan - just reflecting on a real problem”
I wouldn’t worry about it - everything is black and white in Harry’s bellicose world. Indeed that’s why I noted that the French and Italian income per capita will also be surpassed by Poland and others.
To paint the EU as perfect as Harry does is laughable, you are quite correct to point out structural debt problems, and you seem to take a similar view as myself that overall on balance the EU is a good thing. [Post edited 9 May 2023 16:25]
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 15:04 - May 9 with 1674 views | mutters |
Short term it's fairly obvious that it's not been a good idea. It was always going to be a tricky path decoupling yourself from such a close knit partner. If people thought differently then they were being fooled or fooling themselves.
Long term, nobody knows is the simple answer. It may turn out to be a great move, especially if the EU implodes. However the fear is that it won't.
It was a crazy move to leave imo, however sometimes change can drive things forward in unexpected way.
Only time will tell, the recent global financial backdrop and COVID has not helped the new direction in finding it's feet.
I didn't want to leave the EU but now we have I remain optimistic about the future (especially if there is a change in government) |  |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 15:54 - May 9 with 1617 views | itfc_bucks |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:44 - May 9 by chicoazul |
I didn’t say there were any benefits. Brexit is almost entirely downside. But for some, that’s worth it. |
Previous page, you quite literally say a diminished economy is worth it.
Where's the worth? There must be some positive to it, for it to be "worth it"…? | | | |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 15:55 - May 9 with 1613 views | HARRY10 |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 15:04 - May 9 by mutters |
Short term it's fairly obvious that it's not been a good idea. It was always going to be a tricky path decoupling yourself from such a close knit partner. If people thought differently then they were being fooled or fooling themselves.
Long term, nobody knows is the simple answer. It may turn out to be a great move, especially if the EU implodes. However the fear is that it won't.
It was a crazy move to leave imo, however sometimes change can drive things forward in unexpected way.
Only time will tell, the recent global financial backdrop and COVID has not helped the new direction in finding it's feet.
I didn't want to leave the EU but now we have I remain optimistic about the future (especially if there is a change in government) |
The point is the UK has NOT de-coupled itself from the EU. It still trades under EU schedules, and mist likely will for a long while yet.
The reason for there not being all these supposed new deals is that other countries are well aware of how weak the UK is now it has jumped overboard. As seen with NZ&OZ, they are now demanding a more favourable deal than when the UK was in the EU.
That is why of the deals signed the UK has stuck with what they had in the EU ie EU schedules (or rules as the thickos would have).
One of the reasons those NZ/OZ have not been ratified is they will have problems getting through Parliament. If only given the Tory MPs representing farming constituencies. Try explaining how once their meat oviducts enter the UK food chain, UK experts to the EU will pretty much be closed.
This is not a possible future action. It is a reflection of how things work in international trade. To expect the world to bend to the UK now it is out of the EU is deluded at the very least. Countries that trade under EU schedules are not going to change to suit the UK unless that country benefits, which would be at the UK's expense.
"It may turn out to be a great move, especially if the EU implodes. However the fear is that it won't."
Why is it a fear ? | | | |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 16:00 - May 9 with 1600 views | itfc_bucks |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 15:55 - May 9 by HARRY10 |
The point is the UK has NOT de-coupled itself from the EU. It still trades under EU schedules, and mist likely will for a long while yet.
The reason for there not being all these supposed new deals is that other countries are well aware of how weak the UK is now it has jumped overboard. As seen with NZ&OZ, they are now demanding a more favourable deal than when the UK was in the EU.
That is why of the deals signed the UK has stuck with what they had in the EU ie EU schedules (or rules as the thickos would have).
One of the reasons those NZ/OZ have not been ratified is they will have problems getting through Parliament. If only given the Tory MPs representing farming constituencies. Try explaining how once their meat oviducts enter the UK food chain, UK experts to the EU will pretty much be closed.
This is not a possible future action. It is a reflection of how things work in international trade. To expect the world to bend to the UK now it is out of the EU is deluded at the very least. Countries that trade under EU schedules are not going to change to suit the UK unless that country benefits, which would be at the UK's expense.
"It may turn out to be a great move, especially if the EU implodes. However the fear is that it won't."
Why is it a fear ? |
Because if it doesn't, the snake oil salesmen will be exposed for being snake oil salesmen. | | | |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 19:43 - May 10 with 1470 views | HARRY10 |
Whoops, another step towards EU membership, as
"The government has announced a major climb down over its Brexit plans to remove EU laws from British statute books by the end of the year.
The EU Retained Law Bill currently going through parliament was due to automatically delete any European legislation at the end of 2023 — unless it was explicitly chosen to be saved.
But ministers on Wednesday quietly confirmed that they were gutting the bill’s “sunset clause” and that the mass deletion would not go ahead as planned."
"while businesses said the move was a “huge sigh of relief”.
Unsurprisingly the Bill was given to Rees-Mogg to draft up. Not being the brightest poor old s'sticky' has yet again fcked up. Not because the bill as it stands has already fallen, but that he was stupid enough to take it on. just as when he took on the job of finding so called Brexit benefits. 6 months on, and zikch. Prior to that he was sacked through trying to rig the vote so the disgraced Tory MP Owen Paterson could stay in Parliament. He resigned.
Much of what was supposed to disappear from the staute book was agreed standards. Stuff that the UK had helped to draw up aso as to better facilitate trade.
Much of the transactions at Portman Road can be done by the swipe/tap of a card. Imagine a brexiter claiming that from next season every purchase had to be accompanied by filled out forms in triplicate. A signed health form for any food or drink, and production of two forms of ID for the latter. To enter the ground would require you to have previously registered your fingerprints and facial recognition, then have them checked before entering the ground.
The latter being what is due to be required of UK visitors soon. That and "a series of checks, including health certifications on some animal, plant and food products from the EU, that are set to be phased in from October 2023 under Boris Johnson’s exit deal with Brussels."
Brext, the 'gift' that keeps taking.
Please don't laugh at righties - No plans to delay EU laws ‘bonfire’ deadline, says Government
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/government-downing-street-eu-law-house-of- | | | |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 20:14 - May 10 with 1448 views | itfc_bucks |
There are plenty of Righties who think Brexit is fvcking bonkers, don't lump them all in with the loons currently driving the Conservative party.
I just wonder who will be the first politician with the balls to nail colours to the mast and say Brexit was lunacy and we should look to rescind it.
Even LBC's Nick Ferrari, who has hitherto been as pro brexit as they come without actually hosting a show on Gbeebies, accepted that a case for rejoining was gathering momentum. Although he couldn't see it in the course of the next Parliament, which I agree is unlikely.
Could see it in the one beyond that though... | | | |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 20:27 - May 10 with 1443 views | J2BLUE |
No it was very stupid.
Lots of unhappy people taking their frustration out on the wrong target. Including me, obviously.
People didn't vote based on facts. People voted based on feelings. People were pissed off and unfortunately a fresh target was provided.
Now we have people doubling down on Brexit because it's easier than admitting they got it wrong and people like me, who admit it was f#cking stupid, but it's too little, too late. The damage is done. Frustrating not being able to put it right and it's genuinely embarrassing looking back or having to admit voting that way. |  |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 20:54 - May 10 with 1396 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 13:15 - May 9 by BlueBadger |
Foreigners, non-white, LGBTQ people, women and the occasional clean river and beach still exist. So probably not, as far as they're concerned. |
Really? We’ll have to do something about that then. Someone send for Sue Ellen, she’ll soon get rid of them.
A slight Brucie Brexit Bonus (maybe) announced today though. We’re now training more HGV drivers, and pay has gone up slightly (by £1 per hour more over a 3 year period than it did when we were in the EU. It’s cost the industry a fortune though apparently to get here, so swings and roundabouts). But at least it’s something not on the negative side (even if it’s not clear it’s on the plus side of the scales). Well worth all the carnage, eh? You may be able to get some medical supplies more quickly, even if you’re short of staff to use them! |  |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 21:12 - May 10 with 1374 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
When push comes to shove the technocrats at the core of the EU will always serve the interests of business over those of citizens (see Greece and imposed asset sales of public assets.... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/24/greek-debt-crisis-great-greece- ) If people are happy to be bought off with doggy passports and the like then so be it. Personally I am still happy not to give them my support. The only thing harder to change than a nation state is a multi nation state. |  |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 21:49 - May 10 with 1326 views | itfc_bucks |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 20:54 - May 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Really? We’ll have to do something about that then. Someone send for Sue Ellen, she’ll soon get rid of them.
A slight Brucie Brexit Bonus (maybe) announced today though. We’re now training more HGV drivers, and pay has gone up slightly (by £1 per hour more over a 3 year period than it did when we were in the EU. It’s cost the industry a fortune though apparently to get here, so swings and roundabouts). But at least it’s something not on the negative side (even if it’s not clear it’s on the plus side of the scales). Well worth all the carnage, eh? You may be able to get some medical supplies more quickly, even if you’re short of staff to use them! |
But that pay rise is directly inflationary. The pay uplift is passed on throughout the entirety of the supply chain and ends up, in itself, being absorbed by the huge hike in the overall rate of inflation. | | | |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 23:36 - May 10 with 1276 views | Oldsmoker |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 12:08 - May 9 by chicoazul |
Isn’t the real question, if we end up with a diminished economy in return for being (sort of) independent of the EU will it have been worth it? Which begs another question, is the economy how we should measure these things? Because for me a diminished economy is probably worth it. Although as Koont rightly says these problems are ongoing anyway. |
A skint Billy-no-mates isn't a great look. |  |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 23:55 - May 10 with 1269 views | Oldsmoker |
There's a pub I go to about 3 times a year to catch up on old faces.
There's an element in the pub that voted Leave.
When they see me come in, and because of past arguments, one of them always comes up to me at the bar to say hello and have a dig.
Last time I called the guy a Quitter rather than a leaver.
I must have hit a sore spot 'cos he shouted a choice selection of profanities at me.
So I now call all Leavers, Quitters.
Seems to shut them up. | |
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| Was Brexit worth it? on 00:59 - May 11 with 1244 views | HARRY10 |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 20:14 - May 10 by itfc_bucks |
There are plenty of Righties who think Brexit is fvcking bonkers, don't lump them all in with the loons currently driving the Conservative party.
I just wonder who will be the first politician with the balls to nail colours to the mast and say Brexit was lunacy and we should look to rescind it.
Even LBC's Nick Ferrari, who has hitherto been as pro brexit as they come without actually hosting a show on Gbeebies, accepted that a case for rejoining was gathering momentum. Although he couldn't see it in the course of the next Parliament, which I agree is unlikely.
Could see it in the one beyond that though... |
.No.Not all Conservatives are 'righties'.
The rightie is a slow witted type who believes what master tells him, and aligns himself with his betters despite their obvious different interests.
Others are just nutters. I have noticed that it is the rightie who has a total aversion, even hatred, to recycling at any level. Regards cooperation as been dictated to and sees a supposed 'hidden force everywhere, whose sole purpose is to oppress him.
Currently as a paid up wokey cokey the paranoia rightie is being played to his betters advantage. | | | |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 01:01 - May 11 with 1242 views | HARRY10 |
| Was Brexit worth it? on 23:36 - May 10 by Oldsmoker |
A skint Billy-no-mates isn't a great look. |
probably a step up for our resident cap doffer | | | |
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