| The end of ‘The Sun’? 18:11 - Jul 10 with 12418 views | SitfcB |
Blimey.
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| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 22:57 - Jul 10 with 2671 views | unstableblue |
… fascinating editorial
In essence “the truth is out there, but we have no idea what it is in relation to this story, so we can’t really report on it”
Interesting from the experts:
- it is a top law firm representing the girl, if letter true
- BBC gets hundreds of whacky claims a BBC.. and this one was outlandish given the named suspect
Turning into a bit of a culture war.. with Sun, Mail and Express doubling down on the Beeb hate, and more left leaning outlets running the lawyer letter hard
One thing to take from this - the Beeb can actively criticise and report on itself… which is a great attribute
Would you get this in a Murdoch outlet?! Not to this extent |  |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 23:07 - Jul 10 with 2624 views | Illinoisblue |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 21:35 - Jul 10 by StokieBlue |
Then what was the point of the parents going to the Sun?
They have complained the BBC didn't do anything but you're saying they have given their evidence to a source who now won't give it to the BBC.
Makes it even weirder they didn't go to the police.
SB |
The point: $$$$$$$ |  |
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| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 23:08 - Jul 10 with 2621 views | Ryorry |
| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 22:57 - Jul 10 by unstableblue |
… fascinating editorial
In essence “the truth is out there, but we have no idea what it is in relation to this story, so we can’t really report on it”
Interesting from the experts:
- it is a top law firm representing the girl, if letter true
- BBC gets hundreds of whacky claims a BBC.. and this one was outlandish given the named suspect
Turning into a bit of a culture war.. with Sun, Mail and Express doubling down on the Beeb hate, and more left leaning outlets running the lawyer letter hard
One thing to take from this - the Beeb can actively criticise and report on itself… which is a great attribute
Would you get this in a Murdoch outlet?! Not to this extent |
Very interesting & differing perspectives from
1. the agent representing some presenters (but not the un-named one in question) who basically said that as the real truth isn't yet known, the BBC can't report what the real truth is; and that the presenter should identify himself now; and
2. The former Chair of the Board of BBC Trust Editorial Standards Committee, saying the BBC had badly mishandled the matter from the start.
From about 22.40 -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbctwo |  |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 23:10 - Jul 10 with 2592 views | xrayspecs |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 21:35 - Jul 10 by StokieBlue |
Then what was the point of the parents going to the Sun?
They have complained the BBC didn't do anything but you're saying they have given their evidence to a source who now won't give it to the BBC.
Makes it even weirder they didn't go to the police.
SB |
Yep. If you are concerned about your kids, the media (agnostic here) is not the first place you go. |  | | |
| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 23:11 - Jul 10 with 2595 views | SitfcB |
| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 22:57 - Jul 10 by unstableblue |
… fascinating editorial
In essence “the truth is out there, but we have no idea what it is in relation to this story, so we can’t really report on it”
Interesting from the experts:
- it is a top law firm representing the girl, if letter true
- BBC gets hundreds of whacky claims a BBC.. and this one was outlandish given the named suspect
Turning into a bit of a culture war.. with Sun, Mail and Express doubling down on the Beeb hate, and more left leaning outlets running the lawyer letter hard
One thing to take from this - the Beeb can actively criticise and report on itself… which is a great attribute
Would you get this in a Murdoch outlet?! Not to this extent |
We don’t know it’s a girl, seen quite the opposite widely assumed. | |
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| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 23:13 - Jul 10 with 2587 views | lowhouseblue |
| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 23:08 - Jul 10 by Ryorry |
Very interesting & differing perspectives from
1. the agent representing some presenters (but not the un-named one in question) who basically said that as the real truth isn't yet known, the BBC can't report what the real truth is; and that the presenter should identify himself now; and
2. The former Chair of the Board of BBC Trust Editorial Standards Committee, saying the BBC had badly mishandled the matter from the start.
From about 22.40 -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbctwo |
i wasn't clear how the person could say definitively that the bbc had mishandled it from the start without knowing what occurred and what was reported to the bbc etc. we still don't really know that anything illegal or otherwise wrong has occurred. it increasingly feels as if all we have so far is allegations from estranged parents. it's not uncommon for a situation in which young adults are estranged from parents / step parents to involve all sorts of allegations in one direction or the other and the truth may be very difficult to determine. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 23:54 - Jul 10 with 2516 views | Ryorry |
| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 23:13 - Jul 10 by lowhouseblue |
i wasn't clear how the person could say definitively that the bbc had mishandled it from the start without knowing what occurred and what was reported to the bbc etc. we still don't really know that anything illegal or otherwise wrong has occurred. it increasingly feels as if all we have so far is allegations from estranged parents. it's not uncommon for a situation in which young adults are estranged from parents / step parents to involve all sorts of allegations in one direction or the other and the truth may be very difficult to determine. |
Don't shoot the messenger!  | |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 07:24 - Jul 11 with 2383 views | DanTheMan |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 22:12 - Jul 10 by longtimefan |
“ Any evidence would need to prove beyond doubt that photos were taken before the girl was 18. “
Has the gender of the person selling the pictures been confirmed or is that just speculation ? |
No, they've not mentioned this. Part of me thinks the reason they've not is because it's not a girl and they don't want to be seen outing someone.
Oh and on Stokies point above, stepfather is claiming they did go to the Police but was told nothing illegal happened. |  |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 07:32 - Jul 11 with 2364 views | StokieBlue |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 07:24 - Jul 11 by DanTheMan |
No, they've not mentioned this. Part of me thinks the reason they've not is because it's not a girl and they don't want to be seen outing someone.
Oh and on Stokies point above, stepfather is claiming they did go to the Police but was told nothing illegal happened. |
I did hear this later in the evening after I posted although if that was true why would the police need to meet with the BBC given its been implied they had less information than the parents or the Sun.
SB |  |
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| The issue more generally on 07:43 - Jul 11 with 2347 views | DJR |
This will be my one and only comment on this issue.
As a lawyer, with a belief in natural justice, I would offer the following three observations.
1. It is unwise and inappropriate to form a judgment or speculate on an issue such as this without knowing the full facts.
2. Investigations by the BBC (as employer), and if necessary the police, should be allowed to take their course.
3. Perhaps most important of all, a person is innocent until proven guilty, a concept which many on social media don't appear to understand. [Post edited 11 Jul 2023 8:04]
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| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 08:16 - Jul 11 with 2288 views | itfcjoe |
| BBC Newsnight an interesting watch tonight… on 22:57 - Jul 10 by unstableblue |
… fascinating editorial
In essence “the truth is out there, but we have no idea what it is in relation to this story, so we can’t really report on it”
Interesting from the experts:
- it is a top law firm representing the girl, if letter true
- BBC gets hundreds of whacky claims a BBC.. and this one was outlandish given the named suspect
Turning into a bit of a culture war.. with Sun, Mail and Express doubling down on the Beeb hate, and more left leaning outlets running the lawyer letter hard
One thing to take from this - the Beeb can actively criticise and report on itself… which is a great attribute
Would you get this in a Murdoch outlet?! Not to this extent |
Listening to a former Sun editor yesterday on news Agents pod and one of points he made was this has already done it's job - it gets people criticising the BBC and this is what these large foreign owned non tax paying media moguls want.
They run these papers, and Talk TV, and GB News, and the like all at massive losses because they can still drive the agenda and it's a price worth paying for them |  |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 08:27 - Jul 11 with 2251 views | BlueBadger |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 20:56 - Jul 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Just descending into a baseless ‘he said, she said’ load of nonsense because they reported a vague allegation. They’ll be loving the attention though. |
I wonder what it is they're trying to distract us from?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66152296 |  |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 11:37 - Jul 11 with 2139 views | Ryorry |
(don't know when the original was written though).
and
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 11:49 - Jul 11 with 2106 views | WeWereZombies |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 11:37 - Jul 11 by Ryorry |
(don't know when the original was written though).
and
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That all might explain the latest politician jumping on the 'keep the sex scandal that doesn't involve us at the top of the news agenda'...
'Earlier, we reported some remarks from the PM Rishi Sunak over the BBC presenter allegations.
Rishi Sunak told reporters on the plane to the Nato summit in Lithuania: "They were shocking, concerning allegations, of course they were."'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66159469 |  |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 16:24 - Jul 11 with 1933 views | Zx1988 |
I've no strong thoughts either way on the veracity of this entire debacle, and am convinced that this is a very convenient dead cat to distract from all manner of other wrongs, from rapey Tory MPs, to the salacious allegations about our dear chum Gideon.
However, this entire rebuttal seems to me exactly what a vulnerable young person with potential substance abuse issues, if they were being bankrolled by a rich person with a lot to lose, would instruct their expensive London lawyers to say.
Interesting to see the latest development being that a second young person has come forward, and that the BBC has independently verified that the messages in question were sent to them from a number belonging to the presenter in question. | |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 18:29 - Jul 11 with 1831 views | HARRY10 |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 16:24 - Jul 11 by Zx1988 |
I've no strong thoughts either way on the veracity of this entire debacle, and am convinced that this is a very convenient dead cat to distract from all manner of other wrongs, from rapey Tory MPs, to the salacious allegations about our dear chum Gideon.
However, this entire rebuttal seems to me exactly what a vulnerable young person with potential substance abuse issues, if they were being bankrolled by a rich person with a lot to lose, would instruct their expensive London lawyers to say.
Interesting to see the latest development being that a second young person has come forward, and that the BBC has independently verified that the messages in question were sent to them from a number belonging to the presenter in question. |
I don't think the person was issued with crack cocaine - apparently she bought the stuff.
What is of concern is the woman being described as a child. Has the Sun ever used such a term to describe 20 year old topless women seen in their paper ? Or even the word youngster, as they did on Monday ?
And distasteful as it is anyone over the age of 18 is free to engage in such behaviour. So far there has been no evidence that the person in question was aware that monies paid were used to buy illegal drugs.
How many of the public know what the money they pay to someone is used for ? And, I suspect, how many would care ? I should imagine this type of arrangements to fund a drug addiction is quite widespread.
Would the Sun have been so 'concerned' were this just an ordinary punter. Did it have the woman's welfare in mind when it ran the story AFTER being told 'it was rubbish'. Never mind the damage it did to others caught up in the accusations directed at an unknown person.
Odd how there has been no clamour from sections of the press calling for the Tory MP who HAS been arrested on suspicion of indecent assault, sexual assault, rape and other related offences to be named. Yet the male in question here has not even been arrested, on any related activity but is expected to be named.
It doesn't take much to see this is politically motivated action. And as with those particular newspapers, rank hypocrisy.
When the male has been charged, then it will be time to comment.............. on those known actions. | | | |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? (n/t) on 12:39 - Jul 12 with 1701 views | HARRY10 |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 18:29 - Jul 11 by HARRY10 |
I don't think the person was issued with crack cocaine - apparently she bought the stuff.
What is of concern is the woman being described as a child. Has the Sun ever used such a term to describe 20 year old topless women seen in their paper ? Or even the word youngster, as they did on Monday ?
And distasteful as it is anyone over the age of 18 is free to engage in such behaviour. So far there has been no evidence that the person in question was aware that monies paid were used to buy illegal drugs.
How many of the public know what the money they pay to someone is used for ? And, I suspect, how many would care ? I should imagine this type of arrangements to fund a drug addiction is quite widespread.
Would the Sun have been so 'concerned' were this just an ordinary punter. Did it have the woman's welfare in mind when it ran the story AFTER being told 'it was rubbish'. Never mind the damage it did to others caught up in the accusations directed at an unknown person.
Odd how there has been no clamour from sections of the press calling for the Tory MP who HAS been arrested on suspicion of indecent assault, sexual assault, rape and other related offences to be named. Yet the male in question here has not even been arrested, on any related activity but is expected to be named.
It doesn't take much to see this is politically motivated action. And as with those particular newspapers, rank hypocrisy.
When the male has been charged, then it will be time to comment.............. on those known actions. |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 12:56 - Jul 12 with 1626 views | lowhouseblue |
reading that from the guardian you're rather left wondering what the story is here. famous person uses dating app / only fans? has the sun really taken the allegations of the parents at face value and not challenged them? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 14:16 - Jul 12 with 1548 views | HARRY10 |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 12:56 - Jul 12 by lowhouseblue |
reading that from the guardian you're rather left wondering what the story is here. famous person uses dating app / only fans? has the sun really taken the allegations of the parents at face value and not challenged them? |
That would appear to be what happened. Of course any attack on the BBC is not motivated by the Sun having Rupert Murdoch as it's owner.
However rather a lot of righties have now gone silent, and the Sun has yet to produce any evidence of what it claimed on Saturday.
As the BBC has said they cannot simply suspend someone without ANY corroborating evidence. Otherwise it would be a green light for every crank and nutter to fabricate stories - mud sticks.*
This other girl is 22, and her words of suggesting she reveal this man's name, could be thought to amount to blackmail.
I suspect that having has a half dozen or so Tory MPs jailed or resigned over sex scandals this was a chance to hit back, and once the Sun ran the story it was open season. No thought of checking the veracity of the story. After all, why worry about any other presenter when you can print a smear.
At some point the Sun is going to have to back its claim with evidence this woman was 17 at the time and that the man knew she was 17. The question remains, why has the Sun still not provided the evidence it first claimed it had, but is backing off from now ?
* Something used by the wealthy anti EU over decades. Use the parers you own to print endless stories that misrepresented the EU, even to the point of lying about it. The drip, drip, drip effect,
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”
― Joseph Goebbels | | | |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 14:47 - Jul 12 with 1506 views | Radlett_blue |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 14:16 - Jul 12 by HARRY10 |
That would appear to be what happened. Of course any attack on the BBC is not motivated by the Sun having Rupert Murdoch as it's owner.
However rather a lot of righties have now gone silent, and the Sun has yet to produce any evidence of what it claimed on Saturday.
As the BBC has said they cannot simply suspend someone without ANY corroborating evidence. Otherwise it would be a green light for every crank and nutter to fabricate stories - mud sticks.*
This other girl is 22, and her words of suggesting she reveal this man's name, could be thought to amount to blackmail.
I suspect that having has a half dozen or so Tory MPs jailed or resigned over sex scandals this was a chance to hit back, and once the Sun ran the story it was open season. No thought of checking the veracity of the story. After all, why worry about any other presenter when you can print a smear.
At some point the Sun is going to have to back its claim with evidence this woman was 17 at the time and that the man knew she was 17. The question remains, why has the Sun still not provided the evidence it first claimed it had, but is backing off from now ?
* Something used by the wealthy anti EU over decades. Use the parers you own to print endless stories that misrepresented the EU, even to the point of lying about it. The drip, drip, drip effect,
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”
― Joseph Goebbels |
i would guess this story is more about making a moral judgement about a "celebrity" & his behaviour, rather than about someone breaking the law, which then becomes a Police matter. Whether one likes it or not, celebrity tittle tattle does sell newspapers (or generates clicks). |  |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 15:46 - Jul 12 with 1456 views | HARRY10 |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 14:47 - Jul 12 by Radlett_blue |
i would guess this story is more about making a moral judgement about a "celebrity" & his behaviour, rather than about someone breaking the law, which then becomes a Police matter. Whether one likes it or not, celebrity tittle tattle does sell newspapers (or generates clicks). |
If the Sun knew the woman was 17 when this started, then any moral judgement must first be to report this to the police, not publicise it as 'celebrity tittle tattle'
It would have known that making a sweeping allegation against all BBC presenters would cause distress to those not involved.
Could it be their evidence does NOT back up the claims made on Saturday, and it was printed for commercial interests (Murdoch/Sky, than ever supposed public interest.
Your comment was not what was being spoken about over the weekends. Then it was one of alleged paedophilia. Mud sticks, and the Sun well knows that.
Your comment smacks of the comment "they are all as bad as one another" whenever a Tory MP -is caught up in sleaze. Why you should try to excuse the Sun, by claiming serious allegations of paedophilia were just 'tittle tattle' you alone know. | | | |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 16:59 - Jul 12 with 1393 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 15:46 - Jul 12 by HARRY10 |
If the Sun knew the woman was 17 when this started, then any moral judgement must first be to report this to the police, not publicise it as 'celebrity tittle tattle'
It would have known that making a sweeping allegation against all BBC presenters would cause distress to those not involved.
Could it be their evidence does NOT back up the claims made on Saturday, and it was printed for commercial interests (Murdoch/Sky, than ever supposed public interest.
Your comment was not what was being spoken about over the weekends. Then it was one of alleged paedophilia. Mud sticks, and the Sun well knows that.
Your comment smacks of the comment "they are all as bad as one another" whenever a Tory MP -is caught up in sleaze. Why you should try to excuse the Sun, by claiming serious allegations of paedophilia were just 'tittle tattle' you alone know. |
What gets me is if they're 20 now and were 17 at the time, why has it taken the mother 3 years to make a complaint? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The end of ‘The Sun’? on 18:04 - Jul 12 with 1337 views | Herbivore |
Police have confirmed no further action. This rather drives a cart and horses through the Sun's claim to have evidence to support their original story, given that their original story stated he had solicited indecent images of a 17 year old (which is illegal) and the police have been provided no evidence to support that an offence has taken place. Still all highly shady looking at it from the outside, but underlines that you should never trust the Sun. |  |
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