| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:37 - Aug 9 with 1500 views | mylittletown |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 09:11 - Aug 9 by BloomBlue |
I genuinely believe the LibDems are going to surprise a lot in the next GE, with having their best ever GE result. When it comes to the day of voting I think a lot of people are getting fed up with the 2 main parties and for a change will go LibDem. I appreciate that runs the danger of a hung parliament, but maybe given everything not a bad thing. |
I agree. I think that the Lib Dems might well cut a big swathe across traditional Southern 'county' Tory seats. and they could do well in parts of Scotland
If Labour would stop standing against them in those seats, the Lib Dems are home and hosed.
I also think that a hung Parliament is the best result, so long as the Lib Dems and and the SNP insist on some form of PR as part of the deal. No referendum, just an act of Parliament.
First past the post is the single biggest obstacle to coherent government in this country. (As well as rendering us barely democratic). |  | |  |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:43 - Aug 9 with 1497 views | itfcjoe |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:34 - Aug 9 by SomethingBlue |
I'm ever so cautious on this because the current mob will stop at nothing – and I do mean absolutely nothing – to stay in. They are bad people. It would be very, very naive not to understand this. We're in for a total sh7tshow of a 12 months and I just hope people hold their nerve. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 10:35]
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But people on the left will try and claim Starmer is just as bad, it's an incredible viewpoint |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:46 - Aug 9 with 1468 views | mylittletown |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:43 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
But people on the left will try and claim Starmer is just as bad, it's an incredible viewpoint |
Yep, they are f**kwits.
This whole equivalency 'They're all as bad as each other' thing is absurd, ignorant and plainly not true to anyone who has spent more than 2 minutes looking at the facts. | | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:53 - Aug 9 with 1449 views | Blueschev |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:43 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
But people on the left will try and claim Starmer is just as bad, it's an incredible viewpoint |
Of course Labour aren't as bad, this is the worst, most vile government we've ever had. It's not unreasonable to be disappointed with Labours current direction, or lack thereof at the same time as wanting the Tories out. |  | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:02 - Aug 9 with 1430 views | Mookamoo |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:43 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
But people on the left will try and claim Starmer is just as bad, it's an incredible viewpoint |
Owen Jones and Labour left are still focusing far too much on Starmer and not what he would be replacing.
Starmer has many *many* faults, but there is a real danger would be voters are just going to stay at home and the Tories will sneak 20-30 seats that they should be losing. |  | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:04 - Aug 9 with 1426 views | DJR |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:53 - Aug 9 by Blueschev |
Of course Labour aren't as bad, this is the worst, most vile government we've ever had. It's not unreasonable to be disappointed with Labours current direction, or lack thereof at the same time as wanting the Tories out. |
It may be the most vile, but when it comes to the worst, Cameron's austerity government is in my view more to blame than anyone for our current woes in terms of crumbling public services.
Of course, he and Clegg were charmers, so got away with it but none of the policies they implemented (austerity, NHS reform, court closures, probation service reform etc) has stood up to scrutiny. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 12:08]
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:12 - Aug 9 with 1403 views | mylittletown |
It is a very good article, btw. Thanks for pointing it out. | | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:15 - Aug 9 with 1389 views | mylittletown |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:04 - Aug 9 by DJR |
It may be the most vile, but when it comes to the worst, Cameron's austerity government is in my view more to blame than anyone for our current woes in terms of crumbling public services.
Of course, he and Clegg were charmers, so got away with it but none of the policies they implemented (austerity, NHS reform, court closures, probation service reform etc) has stood up to scrutiny. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 12:08]
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Hard to disagree, austerity has been a total disaster, is economically illiterate, and arguably led to Brexit.
I don't think that they were lying psychopaths like Johnson, though. And it was the latter who cleared the last half-decent Tories out of the the party and out of Parliament. | | | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:18 - Aug 9 with 1369 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:43 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
But people on the left will try and claim Starmer is just as bad, it's an incredible viewpoint |
Actually, I think Starmer and his gang could be even worse.
They are essentially neoliberal zealots who have no solutions to anything in the real world. And they’ve rejected progressive politics at almost every step which puts them way right of centre. Couple that with their anti-democratic and authoritarian approach to representative politics and that’s no objectively good option on its own terms.
We need to be getting out of this right-leaning and ultimately self-serving rut that has seen the UK’s baseline performance stutter and fail. Not to mention making life worse for the majority and especially younger generations and marginalised groups. Having a changing of the guards rather than real change is something the UK and its citizens can’t afford. And the crushing of any alternative will just set us further back. |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:26 - Aug 9 with 1342 views | PassionNotAnger |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:18 - Aug 9 by Darth_Koont |
Actually, I think Starmer and his gang could be even worse.
They are essentially neoliberal zealots who have no solutions to anything in the real world. And they’ve rejected progressive politics at almost every step which puts them way right of centre. Couple that with their anti-democratic and authoritarian approach to representative politics and that’s no objectively good option on its own terms.
We need to be getting out of this right-leaning and ultimately self-serving rut that has seen the UK’s baseline performance stutter and fail. Not to mention making life worse for the majority and especially younger generations and marginalised groups. Having a changing of the guards rather than real change is something the UK and its citizens can’t afford. And the crushing of any alternative will just set us further back. |
Blah blah, same old rubbish, they picked on my hero, blah blah, rinse and repeat |  | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:28 - Aug 9 with 1340 views | Churchman |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:04 - Aug 9 by DJR |
It may be the most vile, but when it comes to the worst, Cameron's austerity government is in my view more to blame than anyone for our current woes in terms of crumbling public services.
Of course, he and Clegg were charmers, so got away with it but none of the policies they implemented (austerity, NHS reform, court closures, probation service reform etc) has stood up to scrutiny. [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 12:08]
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Austerity was known to be an economically stupid idea when shiny Cameron first proposed it. The word ‘reform’ in the context of this government using it really grinds my gears. Cuts in other words. NHS, prisons, education, military, police, Border Force reform etc etc = cuts. Savings, less, get rid.
My local authority his instigated ‘managed decline’ for the roads in Sevenoaks area. Mealy mouthed words for no more maintenance. They’ve run out of money. Dumps being closed - no money. Why? Government has continually cut rate support grant and ring fenced certain budgets so the LA is left with no choice. The Govt say it’s nothing to do with them. They are liars.
In other words, the country is eating itself. All because this government doesn’t believe in public services or even the common good. It believes in look after number one. If you can’t that’s your problem. Work harder. Get a second job.
Cameron dribbled on about ‘big society’ without knowing what society was. The shiny faced, toffee nosed pillock had no idea, bar how to line his own pockets and the word privilege - something with which he was well acquainted.
He is the kind of person that savours the smell of his own f@rts. Loathesome person, loathesome people. |  | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:30 - Aug 9 with 1338 views | itfcjoe |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 11:53 - Aug 9 by Blueschev |
Of course Labour aren't as bad, this is the worst, most vile government we've ever had. It's not unreasonable to be disappointed with Labours current direction, or lack thereof at the same time as wanting the Tories out. |
That's a different viewpoint though, my point has been ilustrated further down the thread.
For me, Starmer is clearly a good and well principled man as his career and life attest to, he's not perfect but he's a darn sight more honest than those representing the Tory party - and he has to find a way to govern within the framework that the populace allows.
It may be defeatist, but no one is going to be able to be elected from a true left position, and the longer those there bang that drum the more those who need to most will suffer. Whoever is next PM is going to be picking up the biggest hospital pass of all time, and just the hope is we can get a couple of terms of Labour Govt to give the public services and working class people the boost they desperately need | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:43 - Aug 9 with 1311 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:30 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
That's a different viewpoint though, my point has been ilustrated further down the thread.
For me, Starmer is clearly a good and well principled man as his career and life attest to, he's not perfect but he's a darn sight more honest than those representing the Tory party - and he has to find a way to govern within the framework that the populace allows.
It may be defeatist, but no one is going to be able to be elected from a true left position, and the longer those there bang that drum the more those who need to most will suffer. Whoever is next PM is going to be picking up the biggest hospital pass of all time, and just the hope is we can get a couple of terms of Labour Govt to give the public services and working class people the boost they desperately need |
“For me, Starmer is clearly a good and well principled man as his career and life attest to”
That’s ridiculous. Unless you think lying about left-wingers or lying to them doesn’t count. The only thing you can trust him is to serve the interests of power and money — which for a lot of right-wingers including what passes for British centrism is the only thing that matters. | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:43 - Aug 9 with 1311 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:28 - Aug 9 by Churchman |
Austerity was known to be an economically stupid idea when shiny Cameron first proposed it. The word ‘reform’ in the context of this government using it really grinds my gears. Cuts in other words. NHS, prisons, education, military, police, Border Force reform etc etc = cuts. Savings, less, get rid.
My local authority his instigated ‘managed decline’ for the roads in Sevenoaks area. Mealy mouthed words for no more maintenance. They’ve run out of money. Dumps being closed - no money. Why? Government has continually cut rate support grant and ring fenced certain budgets so the LA is left with no choice. The Govt say it’s nothing to do with them. They are liars.
In other words, the country is eating itself. All because this government doesn’t believe in public services or even the common good. It believes in look after number one. If you can’t that’s your problem. Work harder. Get a second job.
Cameron dribbled on about ‘big society’ without knowing what society was. The shiny faced, toffee nosed pillock had no idea, bar how to line his own pockets and the word privilege - something with which he was well acquainted.
He is the kind of person that savours the smell of his own f@rts. Loathesome person, loathesome people. |
In fairness, Alistair Darling also proposed a period of austerity had Labour won the election in 2010, describing Labour's cuts as ""deeper and tougher" than Margaret Thatcher's.
Form all of Osborne and Cameron's big talk, they cut less in six years than Denis Healy did in one year alone, 1976. |  |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:44 - Aug 9 with 1306 views | giant_stow |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:18 - Aug 9 by Darth_Koont |
Actually, I think Starmer and his gang could be even worse.
They are essentially neoliberal zealots who have no solutions to anything in the real world. And they’ve rejected progressive politics at almost every step which puts them way right of centre. Couple that with their anti-democratic and authoritarian approach to representative politics and that’s no objectively good option on its own terms.
We need to be getting out of this right-leaning and ultimately self-serving rut that has seen the UK’s baseline performance stutter and fail. Not to mention making life worse for the majority and especially younger generations and marginalised groups. Having a changing of the guards rather than real change is something the UK and its citizens can’t afford. And the crushing of any alternative will just set us further back. |
The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator by Mookamoo 9 Aug 2023 12:02Owen Jones and Labour left are still focusing far too much on Starmer and not what he would be replacing.
Starmer has many *many* faults, but there is a real danger would be voters are just going to stay at home and the Tories will sneak 20-30 seats that they should be losing.
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:45 - Aug 9 with 1299 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:26 - Aug 9 by PassionNotAnger |
Blah blah, same old rubbish, they picked on my hero, blah blah, rinse and repeat |
Eh?
Try addressing what I actually wrote. | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:47 - Aug 9 with 1288 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:44 - Aug 9 by giant_stow |
The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator by Mookamoo 9 Aug 2023 12:02Owen Jones and Labour left are still focusing far too much on Starmer and not what he would be replacing.
Starmer has many *many* faults, but there is a real danger would be voters are just going to stay at home and the Tories will sneak 20-30 seats that they should be losing.
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Yes, I’m on the same thread. | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:52 - Aug 9 with 1262 views | giant_stow |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:47 - Aug 9 by Darth_Koont |
Yes, I’m on the same thread. |
Just trying not to double up on previous points as they answer your post perfectly. | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 13:01 - Aug 9 with 1217 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:52 - Aug 9 by giant_stow |
Just trying not to double up on previous points as they answer your post perfectly. |
They are clearly answers for those who posted them.
I’m struggling to see how the continuation of the same politics and its neoliberal consensus is going to help when that’s the very path of the UK’s political, social and economic decline over the past few decades. | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 13:06 - Aug 9 with 1202 views | DJR |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:43 - Aug 9 by GlasgowBlue |
In fairness, Alistair Darling also proposed a period of austerity had Labour won the election in 2010, describing Labour's cuts as ""deeper and tougher" than Margaret Thatcher's.
Form all of Osborne and Cameron's big talk, they cut less in six years than Denis Healy did in one year alone, 1976. |
I think Labour's cuts wouldn't have been as severe as the Tories (austerity lite), but they certainly fully signed up to Tory spending plans and public pay restraint from 2013, so in my view (at the time) were wrong also.
As regards comparisons with cuts under Thatcher and Healy, neither left public services in the state they are in now (or anything like it), and I say this as someone working in Whitehall from 1987. | | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 13:15 - Aug 9 with 1156 views | DJR |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 12:26 - Aug 9 by PassionNotAnger |
Blah blah, same old rubbish, they picked on my hero, blah blah, rinse and repeat |
I think the point he is making has nothing to do with Corbyn. It is that the economic model we have signed up to since 1979 (low taxes, privatisation etc) has failed, when other countries in Europe which have stuck to the sort of social democracy we had before then have been much more successful when it comes to public services, equality etc. | | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 13:19 - Aug 9 with 1136 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 13:06 - Aug 9 by DJR |
I think Labour's cuts wouldn't have been as severe as the Tories (austerity lite), but they certainly fully signed up to Tory spending plans and public pay restraint from 2013, so in my view (at the time) were wrong also.
As regards comparisons with cuts under Thatcher and Healy, neither left public services in the state they are in now (or anything like it), and I say this as someone working in Whitehall from 1987. |
At a core level in our political class there’s a pretty narrow consensus of low tax and low spend. Even after the failings of austerity (150,000 excess deaths, millions of children in poverty, crumbling services and kicking the socio-economic costs down the road) we’re still hearing the same arguments against spending now and ONLY being able to invest if we grow.
Remarkably blinkered approach. But does garner massive support from established and corporate interests who want to protect what they have and maximize profit. | |
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| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 13:19 - Aug 9 with 1135 views | ElderGrizzly |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 10:09 - Aug 9 by nrb1985 |
I look at the amount of YouTube subs GB news has vs. something like the News Agents and I do worry that there's still enough toothless simpletons out there still to be duped.
Albeit your entire post is spot on. Cnts the lot of them. |
The problem the Tories have (like Trump) is they are now just talking to those who would already vote for them no matter what anyway.
They are alienating the ones they would need to have any hope of not being wiped out.
It's racist/xenophobic comfort messaging for the already deranged. Nothing more. |  | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 13:35 - Aug 9 with 1088 views | HARRY10 |
Gosh, that is a stunning revelation.
The ever right wing Spectator catching up with reality. There'll be telling us next the Queen is dead. The Spectator has always been somewhere Tories could go to be reassured the Empire would return, mobile phones were a fad and a gentleman is never dressed without a hat.
Therefore, I do wonder what has brought them to this state of affairs. The massive leads in the polls month after month, perhaps. Or maybe the record breaking swings against them in by elections up and down the country. Or even their virtual wipe out in council elections two years running ? What forensic analogy was needed there ?
So I look forward to the Spectator's next insight. 'The Pope, rumours, suggest he may not be a Protestant.'
Otherwise the thought that the hate Mail and others will spew out a number of lies and smears to help the Tories retain power rather overlook one obvious fact. They do that on an almost daily basis. It is not the Zinoviev Letter* moment, but as with Brexit a constant drip of lies. As Herr Goebbels said
"repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth"
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_letter | | | |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 14:05 - Aug 9 with 1037 views | DJR |
| The Tories are heading for electoral evisceration - The Spectator on 13:19 - Aug 9 by Darth_Koont |
At a core level in our political class there’s a pretty narrow consensus of low tax and low spend. Even after the failings of austerity (150,000 excess deaths, millions of children in poverty, crumbling services and kicking the socio-economic costs down the road) we’re still hearing the same arguments against spending now and ONLY being able to invest if we grow.
Remarkably blinkered approach. But does garner massive support from established and corporate interests who want to protect what they have and maximize profit. |
The study mentioned in the article below, and published in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, suggests over 330,000 excess deaths between 2012 and 2019 linked to austerity. It is to be noted that this predates the pandemic.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/05/over-330000-excess-deaths-in-gr [Post edited 9 Aug 2023 14:06]
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