| Edmundson. 00:19 - Aug 30 with 7447 views | FrimleyBlue |
What was his injury that he had.
He was really strange tonight.
That 2nd goal the way he lost the ball. Same thing happened inside the first 5 minutes which reading did nothing with.
But just random things too. His mind.
Late in the game he had the ball. Live in play. He's slowly moving forwards whilst looking back and up at the big screen. Clearly to see how many minutes left. But I just thought it was quite bizarre
Overall he looks really really far off from what he was. Perhaps never to get back to that level I dunno not sure what exactly he injured. |  |
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| Edmundson. on 08:49 - Aug 30 with 1189 views | pointofblue |
| Edmundson. on 08:11 - Aug 30 by Chrisd |
That's the modern way. I'd love to know the stats on how many goals are actually lost/conceded through overplaying at the back. I do wonder if more problems are actually created with this approach? Although Pep is wonderful at getting his City players to perform in this manner, the majority of clubs don't have the luxury or quality of player to do this regularly without a mistake being made, but because Manchester City do it that's the blue print for all clubs regardless of the level of football. As you say, there's nothing wrong with a bit of old fashioned defending as and when it's needed. [Post edited 30 Aug 2023 8:11]
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The obsession with the inverted full back seems to be the next big thing - Alexander-Arnold with Liverpool and Stones for Manchester City. Now Arsenal are trying to copy it with Partey, which I don’t think is really working and, going off reports, Spurs gave Davies a run at it last night to little affect. Some clubs are running the risk of square pegs in round holes to keep up. |  |
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| Edmundson. on 08:51 - Aug 30 with 1179 views | NthQldITFC |
| Edmundson. on 07:57 - Aug 30 by ChampionsofInnsbruck |
If we had a few old school defenders on Saturday, we would have not conceded four. It's nice to play pretty football, but sometimes the game requires us to get rid of the threat and reset ourselves at a throw in. |
This post is a bit  |  |
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| Edmundson. on 08:52 - Aug 30 with 1174 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Edmundson. on 08:15 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
I can't think of a single league goal last season that we conceded through playing out from the back. |
I’m pretty certain that someone did the stats and we didn’t concede a single goal from playing out the back. A couple of scary moments from Woolfy but no goals conceded.
We score loads of goals from playing out from the back though.
We will be punished one day. Bound to happen. But we need to balance that against the high rewards we get from our style of play. |  |
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| Edmundson. on 08:52 - Aug 30 with 1169 views | Herbivore |
| Edmundson. on 08:34 - Aug 30 by ITFCBlues |
It's not opinion, it's a fact. They mentioned it on the EFL pod last week. We didn't concede 1 single goal playing out from the back last season and we haven't this season either. |
You could argue Leeds' second goal indirectly to be fair. Hladky tries to dink it to Davis and it gets kept alive around our box as a result. If he'd booted it that might not have happened, but it's impossible to say for certain and there were other things (including a foul on Woolf just before that and some poor defending afterwards) that were bigger contributors to the goal. |  |
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| Edmundson. on 08:54 - Aug 30 with 1159 views | Herbivore |
| Edmundson. on 08:49 - Aug 30 by pointofblue |
The obsession with the inverted full back seems to be the next big thing - Alexander-Arnold with Liverpool and Stones for Manchester City. Now Arsenal are trying to copy it with Partey, which I don’t think is really working and, going off reports, Spurs gave Davies a run at it last night to little affect. Some clubs are running the risk of square pegs in round holes to keep up. |
We've been playing with a hybrid RB/RCB for 18 months. | |
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| Edmundson. on 08:56 - Aug 30 with 1155 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Edmundson. on 08:49 - Aug 30 by pointofblue |
The obsession with the inverted full back seems to be the next big thing - Alexander-Arnold with Liverpool and Stones for Manchester City. Now Arsenal are trying to copy it with Partey, which I don’t think is really working and, going off reports, Spurs gave Davies a run at it last night to little affect. Some clubs are running the risk of square pegs in round holes to keep up. |
McKenna experimented with Davis in the system pre season. | |
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| Edmundson. on 08:57 - Aug 30 with 1155 views | Chrisd |
| Edmundson. on 08:36 - Aug 30 by ITFCBlues |
And why in gods name would we just start lumping the ball long when we've just gone 21 games unbeaten playing this way?
Such a stupid lazy comment to make without clearly having any statistical data to back it up. If you've not got the players to play this way, fair enough, but we clearly do as is evidenced by the fact we've not conceded a single goal playing out from the back yet scored numerous goals playing this way, in fact, top scorers in the country last season I believe?? |
Did I say anything about lumping it long? I said when defenders or a goalkeeper is put under pressure there’s this insistence to keep the ball. Sometimes just releasing the pressure is just as good and I’m not suggesting keep knocking it long at every opportunity either. However, it happens quite often where defenders try and play out and get caught out. | |
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| Edmundson. on 08:59 - Aug 30 with 1145 views | Chrisd |
| Edmundson. on 08:24 - Aug 30 by chicoazul |
It’s not a matter of opinion. According to the guardian interview with McK after promotion, which I think was based on OPTA stats, the answer to Herbs’ question is zero in the league last season. |
Fair enough, but I think if you look at my original post, I don’t make reference to us, it’s more a general observation because it happens a lot in the modern game. | |
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| Edmundson. on 09:00 - Aug 30 with 1143 views | Chrisd |
| Edmundson. on 08:48 - Aug 30 by Herbivore |
Can you point me in the direction of the goal(s) you're thinking of then. Be interested to know which ones, in your opinion, came directly from us playing out rather than just aimlessly launching it. [Post edited 30 Aug 2023 8:48]
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Can you point out where I say in my OP I suggest us?! [Post edited 30 Aug 2023 9:03]
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| Edmundson. on 09:04 - Aug 30 with 1135 views | Asa |
I find it very strange that we are still persisting with him to be honest given how ruthless the regime is.
When he first came into the side he looked really good. But after that first injury he never looked right and is prone to so many errors and so many lapses of concentration. I am not comparing him to Nsiala in a technical sense but Edmundson has that same trait of looking good with a block or tackle that he's caused us to face in the first place, which was very Toto like.
Last night he can be excused to a degree because he is rusty and coming back from an injury. But every time he's played in the last 18 months he seems to be rusty and coming back from another injury. He simply can't be relied upon.
Add in that he also played on the wrong side often, credit to him, but it really showed in a possession based system where he constantly looked like he'd get caught in possession.
He was one of the few that didn't impress me at League One level whilst others raved about him. At Championship level when he simply can't get fit and can't play on the left, there is really no point in wasting a squad space on him and I'd have been looking for two centre halves to rival Woolfy and Burgess from the start of the summer.
I trust McKenna and Ashton implicitly so the fact he's not been moved on says I am likely wrong. But I knew as soon as Edmundson got into that position how it was going to play out as I've seen it too many times. | | | |
| Edmundson. on 09:07 - Aug 30 with 1127 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Edmundson. on 09:04 - Aug 30 by Asa |
I find it very strange that we are still persisting with him to be honest given how ruthless the regime is.
When he first came into the side he looked really good. But after that first injury he never looked right and is prone to so many errors and so many lapses of concentration. I am not comparing him to Nsiala in a technical sense but Edmundson has that same trait of looking good with a block or tackle that he's caused us to face in the first place, which was very Toto like.
Last night he can be excused to a degree because he is rusty and coming back from an injury. But every time he's played in the last 18 months he seems to be rusty and coming back from another injury. He simply can't be relied upon.
Add in that he also played on the wrong side often, credit to him, but it really showed in a possession based system where he constantly looked like he'd get caught in possession.
He was one of the few that didn't impress me at League One level whilst others raved about him. At Championship level when he simply can't get fit and can't play on the left, there is really no point in wasting a squad space on him and I'd have been looking for two centre halves to rival Woolfy and Burgess from the start of the summer.
I trust McKenna and Ashton implicitly so the fact he's not been moved on says I am likely wrong. But I knew as soon as Edmundson got into that position how it was going to play out as I've seen it too many times. |
I think a loan with a January recall to league one would benefit him and us. Get him playing regularly and test the injury. The way we have with Camara. | |
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| Edmundson. on 09:11 - Aug 30 with 1121 views | Asa |
| Edmundson. on 09:07 - Aug 30 by GlasgowBlue |
I think a loan with a January recall to league one would benefit him and us. Get him playing regularly and test the injury. The way we have with Camara. |
Have to agree.
He's a lovely guy and clearly showed some good attributes when he came in, but whether it's his confidence because of injuries, being played on the wrong side or both, he's now a liability and if he could get a good loan, play regularly in his preferred position and stay fit then he's young enough to come back a very decent Championship defender, but his fitness issues don't look great and it seems rare you get a player injured so often in quick succession that then goes onto have a long healthy period.
It's a shame as he's probably one of the nicest guys in the squad and clearly has talent. He's just had awful luck. | | | |
| Edmundson. on 09:14 - Aug 30 with 1110 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Edmundson. on 09:11 - Aug 30 by Asa |
Have to agree.
He's a lovely guy and clearly showed some good attributes when he came in, but whether it's his confidence because of injuries, being played on the wrong side or both, he's now a liability and if he could get a good loan, play regularly in his preferred position and stay fit then he's young enough to come back a very decent Championship defender, but his fitness issues don't look great and it seems rare you get a player injured so often in quick succession that then goes onto have a long healthy period.
It's a shame as he's probably one of the nicest guys in the squad and clearly has talent. He's just had awful luck. |
Probably the saddest part of our promotion celebrations after the Exeter game was watching the entire squad running towards the North stand, with Edmundson behind trying his best to run whilst wearing his protective boot.
A really nice bloke who has bought into the project and desperate to be successful here. Really hope we can get him back to his best. [Post edited 30 Aug 2023 9:24]
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| Edmundson. on 09:16 - Aug 30 with 1102 views | JammyDodgerrr |
In a weird turn of events, probably he is the one that needs to go out on loan to get game time and we should keep Baggott as a back up. Feels a better option at this point. |  |
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| Edmundson. on 09:19 - Aug 30 with 1090 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Edmundson. on 08:52 - Aug 30 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m pretty certain that someone did the stats and we didn’t concede a single goal from playing out the back. A couple of scary moments from Woolfy but no goals conceded.
We score loads of goals from playing out from the back though.
We will be punished one day. Bound to happen. But we need to balance that against the high rewards we get from our style of play. |
Yep. It's not as if we play out from the back at all costs either. Many times we go with a long diagonal if the opposition does press up. Woolfie in particular often uses a longer ball to mix things up. |  |
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| Edmundson. on 09:26 - Aug 30 with 1046 views | DJR |
| Edmundson. on 08:57 - Aug 30 by Chrisd |
Did I say anything about lumping it long? I said when defenders or a goalkeeper is put under pressure there’s this insistence to keep the ball. Sometimes just releasing the pressure is just as good and I’m not suggesting keep knocking it long at every opportunity either. However, it happens quite often where defenders try and play out and get caught out. |
This season, faced with much better pressing, Hladky has in fact, when the occasion requires, played it long but those long balls have tried to reach one of our team. [Post edited 30 Aug 2023 9:27]
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| Edmundson. on 09:30 - Aug 30 with 1031 views | Herbivore |
| Edmundson. on 09:00 - Aug 30 by Chrisd |
Can you point out where I say in my OP I suggest us?! [Post edited 30 Aug 2023 9:03]
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You were responding to a post about Ipswich on an Ipsowich Town forum, mate. If you think there's a problem with playing out from the back, and this is how we play, it's not unreasonable to assume you think it is a problem for us. If you think it's not that's fine, but you could have made that much clearer as you only exempted Manchester City from criticism for playing out from the back, not us. | |
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| Edmundson. on 09:35 - Aug 30 with 1021 views | itfcsuth |
I like GE, perfectly good cover, we know there is a good centre-back there, we've seen it with a run of games.
It's difficult popping in and out of cup games to find any real form, and he isn't dislodging Woolfenden or Burgess currently - but if he were to have a run of games at some point I have no doubt he'd find his groove.
Nevertheless, silly decision making last night - was trying to buy a foul and got it all wrong. |  | | |
| Edmundson. on 09:42 - Aug 30 with 999 views | bobbyramsey |
| Edmundson. on 08:34 - Aug 30 by ITFCBlues |
It's not opinion, it's a fact. They mentioned it on the EFL pod last week. We didn't concede 1 single goal playing out from the back last season and we haven't this season either. |
I thought the discussion here was not about whether we should "play out from the back" but whether on this occasion Edmundson should have just passed the ball into touch? Another goal conceded to defensive slackness btw.
Nothing to do with playing out from the back....... |  | | |
| Edmundson. on 09:48 - Aug 30 with 983 views | ArnieM |
He’s nowhere near good enough for championship level, and we need to ship him out. He has a goal conceding mistake in him every game. |  |
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| Edmundson. on 09:55 - Aug 30 with 962 views | monty_radio |
| Edmundson. on 07:57 - Aug 30 by ChampionsofInnsbruck |
If we had a few old school defenders on Saturday, we would have not conceded four. It's nice to play pretty football, but sometimes the game requires us to get rid of the threat and reset ourselves at a throw in. |
Re "Old School defending". It's never as two-toned as some make it. Re such defenders I give you, for those old enough to recall: Hunter, Butcher and Beattie. Big Al was certainly known to favour Row Z on occasion, but he and the other two all knew how to pick a pass. Plenty of footage of that still available. Teams like France and Spain have no defenders who couldn't put in a creditable shift elsewhere on the pitch. | |
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| Edmundson. on 10:10 - Aug 30 with 932 views | ITFCBlues |
| Edmundson. on 08:57 - Aug 30 by Chrisd |
Did I say anything about lumping it long? I said when defenders or a goalkeeper is put under pressure there’s this insistence to keep the ball. Sometimes just releasing the pressure is just as good and I’m not suggesting keep knocking it long at every opportunity either. However, it happens quite often where defenders try and play out and get caught out. |
Happens quite often, just not happened to us yet?
Who's to say that "releasing the pressure" and hoofing it wouldn't then allow the opposition possession and then increase pressure and concede more goals? |  |
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| Hmmmmm on 10:14 - Aug 30 with 931 views | Dyland |
| Edmundson. on 07:57 - Aug 30 by ChampionsofInnsbruck |
If we had a few old school defenders on Saturday, we would have not conceded four. It's nice to play pretty football, but sometimes the game requires us to get rid of the threat and reset ourselves at a throw in. |
"... sometimes the game requires us to get rid of the threat and reset ourselves at a throw in."
Who are you, Mr Cholmondley-Warner? |  |
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| Edmundson. on 10:23 - Aug 30 with 904 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Edmundson. on 10:10 - Aug 30 by ITFCBlues |
Happens quite often, just not happened to us yet?
Who's to say that "releasing the pressure" and hoofing it wouldn't then allow the opposition possession and then increase pressure and concede more goals? |
McKenna made the point on the EFL podcast recently that if you give the ball away playing out from the back and concede, people think you have a stylistic problem. But, if your keeper/defender lumps it up the pitch and the opposition win the ball and score, nobody draws the same conclusion. | | | |
| Edmundson. on 11:05 - Aug 30 with 855 views | BigCommon |
| Edmundson. on 05:42 - Aug 30 by ArchiRob |
Didn't the forward step on his heel ? |
Oh, I didn't see that tbh.. If that's the case then I'll take back what I said about him being shoved off the ball too easily.. |  | | |
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