| What a complete load of old bollox this is 12:12 - Oct 5 with 3813 views | GeoffSentence |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67003386
Replayed my backside.
Every week up and down the country refs have got decisions wrong since the beginning of football time and so they will until the end of it. Managers moan, fans bellyache and we all get on with it, feeling aggrieved or, if on the right end of it, enjoying the fortune.
If games were replayed every time a ref made a decisive error the season would never end.
Oh, and at the same time some premier league managers have been complaining about the high workload on their players, not sure if Klopp was one of them, but this would just make it worse. |  |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 12:15 - Oct 5 with 3775 views | blueasfook |
Having a replay is ridiculous and won't happen. However, a good case for scrapping VAR. It's not been a good idea IMO. |  |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 12:21 - Oct 5 with 3720 views | _clive_baker_ |
Very Liverpooly of him, that. Didn't they once create a petition to get a Champions League game replayed? So salty. |  | | |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 12:33 - Oct 5 with 3685 views | Basuco |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 12:15 - Oct 5 by blueasfook |
Having a replay is ridiculous and won't happen. However, a good case for scrapping VAR. It's not been a good idea IMO. |
VAR is a very good idea but very poorly implemented by the premier league, while I accept that referees can make a mistake in real time, how can two referees looking and slow motion replay's from different angles still make so many mistakes? Howard Webb's position as the head of the PGMOL is now untenable IMO. The conversation released on this showed the officials to be unprofessional and incompetent, but also the entire process was just very amateurish and not at all structured, which makes mistakes highly likely. |  | | |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 12:37 - Oct 5 with 3652 views | jayessess |
Tbf, in the longer answer I think Klopp explains himself a bit better and explains how this is slightly different from a run of the mill mistake.
The decision-making mechanics for football matches are agreed before the match. It's the same for both teams, be it VAR on 100% on-field refereeing. The decisions aren't always correct but they're all made in the same way and everyone agreed to participate on those terms.
The Diaz goal isn't like that. The process has meant that one bit of play wasn't refereed in the agreed manner. That unlevels the playing field in a way that Geoff Eltringham not giving us a stonewall penalty doesn't.
I'm sure they won't replay the game, but I think the whole "whinging Liverpool want special treatment" thing is being overplayed here. It is genuinely a different category of mistake. |  |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:07 - Oct 5 with 3563 views | homer_123 |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 12:37 - Oct 5 by jayessess |
Tbf, in the longer answer I think Klopp explains himself a bit better and explains how this is slightly different from a run of the mill mistake.
The decision-making mechanics for football matches are agreed before the match. It's the same for both teams, be it VAR on 100% on-field refereeing. The decisions aren't always correct but they're all made in the same way and everyone agreed to participate on those terms.
The Diaz goal isn't like that. The process has meant that one bit of play wasn't refereed in the agreed manner. That unlevels the playing field in a way that Geoff Eltringham not giving us a stonewall penalty doesn't.
I'm sure they won't replay the game, but I think the whole "whinging Liverpool want special treatment" thing is being overplayed here. It is genuinely a different category of mistake. |
It's a clusterfeck of a decision. |  |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:10 - Oct 5 with 3524 views | GlasgowBlue |
Can we please replay the 1975 FA Cup Semi Final against West Ham? |  |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:22 - Oct 5 with 3465 views | jayessess |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:07 - Oct 5 by homer_123 |
It's a clusterfeck of a decision. |
And I think revealing of an amateurish culture in elite level English refereeing that's troubling. No-one thought to design a standard communication protocol for this stuff? | |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:38 - Oct 5 with 3404 views | tractorboy1978 |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 12:37 - Oct 5 by jayessess |
Tbf, in the longer answer I think Klopp explains himself a bit better and explains how this is slightly different from a run of the mill mistake.
The decision-making mechanics for football matches are agreed before the match. It's the same for both teams, be it VAR on 100% on-field refereeing. The decisions aren't always correct but they're all made in the same way and everyone agreed to participate on those terms.
The Diaz goal isn't like that. The process has meant that one bit of play wasn't refereed in the agreed manner. That unlevels the playing field in a way that Geoff Eltringham not giving us a stonewall penalty doesn't.
I'm sure they won't replay the game, but I think the whole "whinging Liverpool want special treatment" thing is being overplayed here. It is genuinely a different category of mistake. |
We've had comparable 'decisions' in the past though. The goal line technology malfunctioning in 2019/20 kept Aston Villa up. We've had the offside lines not being drawn in the Brentford vs Arsenal match last season. Probably a couple more I have forgotten too. It's cr@p and they've made a serious blunder but you can't be replaying games. |  | | |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:47 - Oct 5 with 3377 views | homer_123 |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:38 - Oct 5 by tractorboy1978 |
We've had comparable 'decisions' in the past though. The goal line technology malfunctioning in 2019/20 kept Aston Villa up. We've had the offside lines not being drawn in the Brentford vs Arsenal match last season. Probably a couple more I have forgotten too. It's cr@p and they've made a serious blunder but you can't be replaying games. |
No, not the way to go but Klopp isn't wholly wrong to suggest it and the vilification is OTT in my opinion.
Going back to why VAR was introduced - it's to stop these sorts of things from happening. It's not really doing that and what has become increasingly clear (as others have put it far more eloquently than I) is that comms system around VAR is shocking.
Personally, remove VAR and spend the money on training and developing better referees who got something like 92% or 93% of decisions right anyway. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 13:47]
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:56 - Oct 5 with 3342 views | tractorboy1978 |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:47 - Oct 5 by homer_123 |
No, not the way to go but Klopp isn't wholly wrong to suggest it and the vilification is OTT in my opinion.
Going back to why VAR was introduced - it's to stop these sorts of things from happening. It's not really doing that and what has become increasingly clear (as others have put it far more eloquently than I) is that comms system around VAR is shocking.
Personally, remove VAR and spend the money on training and developing better referees who got something like 92% or 93% of decisions right anyway. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 13:47]
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We should hopefully be at a point where they can automate offsides soon. Once we are there, I'd leave it at technology being used for goal line decisions/offsides and everything else scrapped as decisions are subjective. I think you can cope with refs making the odd incorrect decision (as before) when you know they've seen it once and honestly made a mistake. It infuriates me when they still seem to be making stupid decisions after looking at an incident from 10 angles and in slow motion though! | | | |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:59 - Oct 5 with 3326 views | FrimleyBlue |
I dont get all this ridiculous coverage.
It's a game early in the season, it's a human error, they held hands up, apologised, it's done.
If it were last game of season, title decider 90th minute mistake, then granted make an issue.
But fk me, 7th game of a season
Also, they had 2 reds... what happens here, they want those reds taken away? |  |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:08 - Oct 5 with 3294 views | portmanroadblue |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 12:15 - Oct 5 by blueasfook |
Having a replay is ridiculous and won't happen. However, a good case for scrapping VAR. It's not been a good idea IMO. |
Nothing wrong with VAR, bit like the country, being run by Tvvats. |  | | |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:10 - Oct 5 with 3283 views | Freddies_Ears |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:38 - Oct 5 by tractorboy1978 |
We've had comparable 'decisions' in the past though. The goal line technology malfunctioning in 2019/20 kept Aston Villa up. We've had the offside lines not being drawn in the Brentford vs Arsenal match last season. Probably a couple more I have forgotten too. It's cr@p and they've made a serious blunder but you can't be replaying games. |
You can add Wolves v Liverpool in the FA Cup last year, Wolves denied a clear goal.
Or go back a couple of years, when VAR admitted drawing the offside lines wrongly and denying Spurs a valid goal against, er, Liverpool.
So, Klippety can klopp off. | | | |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:19 - Oct 5 with 3265 views | jayessess |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:38 - Oct 5 by tractorboy1978 |
We've had comparable 'decisions' in the past though. The goal line technology malfunctioning in 2019/20 kept Aston Villa up. We've had the offside lines not being drawn in the Brentford vs Arsenal match last season. Probably a couple more I have forgotten too. It's cr@p and they've made a serious blunder but you can't be replaying games. |
I think if the integrity of the refereeing system was something that was actually taken seriously, you probably should replay all 3 of those games. The Aston Villa one in particular, because the technology failure has actually made it impossible for the correct decision to be made.
(In a way it's funny, because top level football is very pantomime in lots of ways and perhaps we sort of take its integrity about as seriously as it deserves to be...) | |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:30 - Oct 5 with 3222 views | GeoffSentence |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 12:37 - Oct 5 by jayessess |
Tbf, in the longer answer I think Klopp explains himself a bit better and explains how this is slightly different from a run of the mill mistake.
The decision-making mechanics for football matches are agreed before the match. It's the same for both teams, be it VAR on 100% on-field refereeing. The decisions aren't always correct but they're all made in the same way and everyone agreed to participate on those terms.
The Diaz goal isn't like that. The process has meant that one bit of play wasn't refereed in the agreed manner. That unlevels the playing field in a way that Geoff Eltringham not giving us a stonewall penalty doesn't.
I'm sure they won't replay the game, but I think the whole "whinging Liverpool want special treatment" thing is being overplayed here. It is genuinely a different category of mistake. |
I don't get this 'different category of error' approach. It is just a refereeing error, albeit from the 2nd set of refs.
Regarding 'whinging Liverpool', I have no problem with them complaining about the error at all. It was an error and we'd all complain about it. The issue here is the suggestion that they should have the game replayed for a refereeing error. That's ludicrous. | |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:45 - Oct 5 with 3197 views | Illinoisblue |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:59 - Oct 5 by FrimleyBlue |
I dont get all this ridiculous coverage.
It's a game early in the season, it's a human error, they held hands up, apologised, it's done.
If it were last game of season, title decider 90th minute mistake, then granted make an issue.
But fk me, 7th game of a season
Also, they had 2 reds... what happens here, they want those reds taken away? |
There have always been ref mistakes but this is the first case of the thing supposed to make everything better - VAR - getting it totally wrong. Liverpool have a right to be mad but talk of a replay is of course absurd. (And I don’t think Klopp was being totally serious about that) |  |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:46 - Oct 5 with 3193 views | jayessess |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:30 - Oct 5 by GeoffSentence |
I don't get this 'different category of error' approach. It is just a refereeing error, albeit from the 2nd set of refs.
Regarding 'whinging Liverpool', I have no problem with them complaining about the error at all. It was an error and we'd all complain about it. The issue here is the suggestion that they should have the game replayed for a refereeing error. That's ludicrous. |
There's a categorical difference between:
(A) An on-pitch referee (or even a VAR) following the agreed process to make a decision which is correct according to what they think they've seen, but which later turns out to be an error.
Such is inevitable in any system which involves human judgement (and is also fair because both sides are subjected to the same system).
(B) A break down in the process making it impossible for an incident to be refereed according to the rules in place.
In that case the system has meant one side has essentially had to play under different refereeing conditions. | |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:48 - Oct 5 with 3186 views | stonojnr |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:47 - Oct 5 by homer_123 |
No, not the way to go but Klopp isn't wholly wrong to suggest it and the vilification is OTT in my opinion.
Going back to why VAR was introduced - it's to stop these sorts of things from happening. It's not really doing that and what has become increasingly clear (as others have put it far more eloquently than I) is that comms system around VAR is shocking.
Personally, remove VAR and spend the money on training and developing better referees who got something like 92% or 93% of decisions right anyway. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 13:47]
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If Klopp was making a wider point about the VAR system and its protocols fair enough.
But he isn't it's all about how it impacts him and Liverpool, which is his job, but its not an unbiased view, he wouldn't be sitting their complaining about "legal" goals if it been Tottenham who had scored that goal and had it wiped out, or if Liverpool had won the game.
Humans make mistakes, always will do, it shouldn't have happened but it did, the focus should be on making sure it never happens again, anything else is just a sideshow | | | |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:51 - Oct 5 with 3180 views | Swansea_Blue |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:08 - Oct 5 by portmanroadblue |
Nothing wrong with VAR, bit like the country, being run by Tvvats. |
Perfect analogy! |  |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 15:10 - Oct 5 with 3158 views | tractorboy1978 |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 14:48 - Oct 5 by stonojnr |
If Klopp was making a wider point about the VAR system and its protocols fair enough.
But he isn't it's all about how it impacts him and Liverpool, which is his job, but its not an unbiased view, he wouldn't be sitting their complaining about "legal" goals if it been Tottenham who had scored that goal and had it wiped out, or if Liverpool had won the game.
Humans make mistakes, always will do, it shouldn't have happened but it did, the focus should be on making sure it never happens again, anything else is just a sideshow |
They really shouldn't be making mistakes with VAR though. Or if they do you should be able to count them on one hand over the course of a season. We seem to have an apology from the PGMOL every week over the last year or so - and that is only because Howard Webb is making them accountable. When Riley was in charge they just brushed these errors under the carpet.
VAR was brought in to eradicate/seriously minimise human error. In the Premier League it really hasn't achieved that purpose. We have more controversy now than I can remember pre VAR. | | | |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 15:12 - Oct 5 with 3145 views | FrimleyBlue |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 15:10 - Oct 5 by tractorboy1978 |
They really shouldn't be making mistakes with VAR though. Or if they do you should be able to count them on one hand over the course of a season. We seem to have an apology from the PGMOL every week over the last year or so - and that is only because Howard Webb is making them accountable. When Riley was in charge they just brushed these errors under the carpet.
VAR was brought in to eradicate/seriously minimise human error. In the Premier League it really hasn't achieved that purpose. We have more controversy now than I can remember pre VAR. |
Thing is though, they are human, and part of being human is unfortunately making mistakes. They happen, it's just natural.
VAR has no doubt corrected hundreds of incorrect official calls, that can't be argued. Are there still mistakes, yes, but it has to be expected because again these are human beings involved. | |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 15:22 - Oct 5 with 3125 views | Kropotkin123 |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 13:10 - Oct 5 by GlasgowBlue |
Can we please replay the 1975 FA Cup Semi Final against West Ham? |
Or when Ruud Van Horseface dived |  |
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| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 15:32 - Oct 5 with 3106 views | jayessess |
| What a complete load of old bollox this is on 15:12 - Oct 5 by FrimleyBlue |
Thing is though, they are human, and part of being human is unfortunately making mistakes. They happen, it's just natural.
VAR has no doubt corrected hundreds of incorrect official calls, that can't be argued. Are there still mistakes, yes, but it has to be expected because again these are human beings involved. |
Whilst humans do make mistakes, institutions that are run professionally anticipate problems and design systems that minimise the scope for errors, maximise accuracy and also insert fail safes for when errors do happen.
They design communication protocols that make it less likely that someone gets the wrong end of the stick.
They insert a failsafe where, for example, things can paused in the event that something has gone wrong with the system.
The build cultures where VAR correcting the on-field referee isn't taken as an assault on their honour, but in fact an acknowledgement that human error is inevitable given the difficulties of the job.
In doing so they give the humans involved a structure that allows them to do their jobs well. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 15:33]
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