| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 13:59 - Oct 19 with 2616 views | giant_stow |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 13:52 - Oct 19 by lowhouseblue |
can you be sure that the police arriving at the scene knew he was 13? can you always tell 13 year olds from, say, 16 year olds with a high degree of confidence? mid-teens are involved in gun crime and are also the victims of gun crime. it may not be adultification - it may be that they were unaware of his exact age? |
Although I could be wrong, granted, personally if I saw a lad on a bike with a water pistol, playing with his sister, I'd put him at a pretty young age - maybe younger than thirteen even.
I think its the fact they've knocked him off his bike and pointed their sub machine guns at him, *before* they saw the gun / confirmed it looked real, which is the real problem. They must have - a blue plastic water pistol... They've assumed it's real, despite the context. |  |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 14:10 - Oct 19 with 2579 views | lowhouseblue |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 13:59 - Oct 19 by giant_stow |
Although I could be wrong, granted, personally if I saw a lad on a bike with a water pistol, playing with his sister, I'd put him at a pretty young age - maybe younger than thirteen even.
I think its the fact they've knocked him off his bike and pointed their sub machine guns at him, *before* they saw the gun / confirmed it looked real, which is the real problem. They must have - a blue plastic water pistol... They've assumed it's real, despite the context. |
the report wasn't of someone with a water pistol - it was someone with what was thought to be a gun (and in an area with a very high rate of gun crime).
my understanding is that the police prefer to tackle someone in those circumstances rather than confront them at a distance - at a distance there is more risk of the gun, or supposed gun, being moved into a position which could be interpreted as threatening the police or others. and that doesn't end well. tackling in the way they did means there is less risk to the police or to the person they are confronting. so they may not have had a chance to view the supposed weapon in any detail.
to be honest if the police respond to a report of someone waving a gun in a public place and everyone walks away uninjured and alive I think it is a success. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 14:12 - Oct 19 with 2573 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 13:59 - Oct 19 by giant_stow |
Although I could be wrong, granted, personally if I saw a lad on a bike with a water pistol, playing with his sister, I'd put him at a pretty young age - maybe younger than thirteen even.
I think its the fact they've knocked him off his bike and pointed their sub machine guns at him, *before* they saw the gun / confirmed it looked real, which is the real problem. They must have - a blue plastic water pistol... They've assumed it's real, despite the context. |
I can imagine it is a hard job and all that, but it doesn't give you a lot of confidence in their capability and judgement if (a) they pile into a 13 year old without clear reason, and (b) can't tell the difference between a water pistol and a firearm.
Seems like they need a bit more training. |  |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 14:19 - Oct 19 with 2538 views | JakeITFC |
Good job he wasn't running for a tube train, eh. |  | | |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 14:38 - Oct 19 with 2508 views | Crawfordsboot |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 14:12 - Oct 19 by Swansea_Blue |
I can imagine it is a hard job and all that, but it doesn't give you a lot of confidence in their capability and judgement if (a) they pile into a 13 year old without clear reason, and (b) can't tell the difference between a water pistol and a firearm.
Seems like they need a bit more training. |
Again see:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=coloured+pistols&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&
Not so simple as you suggest! Particularly if you are arriving to a reported firearm |  | | |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 14:51 - Oct 19 with 2482 views | StokieBlue |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 14:10 - Oct 19 by lowhouseblue |
the report wasn't of someone with a water pistol - it was someone with what was thought to be a gun (and in an area with a very high rate of gun crime).
my understanding is that the police prefer to tackle someone in those circumstances rather than confront them at a distance - at a distance there is more risk of the gun, or supposed gun, being moved into a position which could be interpreted as threatening the police or others. and that doesn't end well. tackling in the way they did means there is less risk to the police or to the person they are confronting. so they may not have had a chance to view the supposed weapon in any detail.
to be honest if the police respond to a report of someone waving a gun in a public place and everyone walks away uninjured and alive I think it is a success. |
You keep making Hackney out to be some kind of demilitarised zone, it's really not.
SB |  | | |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:01 - Oct 19 with 2444 views | lowhouseblue |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 14:51 - Oct 19 by StokieBlue |
You keep making Hackney out to be some kind of demilitarised zone, it's really not.
SB |
"The borough with the highest number of gun crimes committed per 1,000 residents between January 2017 and September 2022 is Haringey, with 2.2 gun crimes committed per 1,000 residents. This is followed by Lambeth with 2.1 per 1,000 residents. Westminster and Hackney have seen 1.8 gun crimes per 1,000 residents in the same period, while Southwark has seen 1.7 per 1,000 residents."
equal third highest london borough. it's not st. louis but it's not unreasonable for the police to believe that a report of someone with a gun is very likely to involve a gun. i have nothing at all against hackney but there is a context for the way the police there respond to reports of guns. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:04 - Oct 19 with 2423 views | giant_stow |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 13:57 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
You shouldn’t be surprised as your title in the OP made it clear what your starting position in this.
A 13 yr old lad can quite commonly be the size of an adult and certainly whilst riding a bike
Based on info the responding armed response unit would have received (man pointing gun at girl whilst riding a bike) thry they turned up and saw a suspect they have to make a judgment. Taking down a suspect without firing any shots, taser etc and prevent a potential shooting isn’t a bad outcome for them based on what they were advised.
Would rather give the benefit of the doubt to those whose job is go towards people with guns and knives than jump on the keyboard gang for who a lot have the starting position that all cops are bad/incompetent. |
I'm not jumping "on the keyboard gang" - I'm siding with a mother of a traumatised child who was knocked off his bike by a (edit: van) and had sub-machine guns pointed at him. [Post edited 19 Oct 2023 15:05]
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:05 - Oct 19 with 2403 views | HankScorpio |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:01 - Oct 19 by lowhouseblue |
"The borough with the highest number of gun crimes committed per 1,000 residents between January 2017 and September 2022 is Haringey, with 2.2 gun crimes committed per 1,000 residents. This is followed by Lambeth with 2.1 per 1,000 residents. Westminster and Hackney have seen 1.8 gun crimes per 1,000 residents in the same period, while Southwark has seen 1.7 per 1,000 residents."
equal third highest london borough. it's not st. louis but it's not unreasonable for the police to believe that a report of someone with a gun is very likely to involve a gun. i have nothing at all against hackney but there is a context for the way the police there respond to reports of guns. |
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| I expect nothing from you, except to die and be a very cheap funeral. |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:22 - Oct 19 with 2343 views | Ewan_Oozami |
Not going to reply to any specific post on this thread but what I don't understand about the police and crime reports like this is, why don't they send a drone with a 4k camera and sound recording in to assess the scene first and respond appropriately? Much cheaper and less risky than piling in with an ARU I would have thought? |  |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:22 - Oct 19 with 2340 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:04 - Oct 19 by giant_stow |
I'm not jumping "on the keyboard gang" - I'm siding with a mother of a traumatised child who was knocked off his bike by a (edit: van) and had sub-machine guns pointed at him. [Post edited 19 Oct 2023 15:05]
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And if the same mothers daughter was shot by someone and the police hadn’t responded quickly to reports of someone with a gun roaming around I suspect you’d still be blaming the police and sympathising with her.
Just shows it’s a fine line to tread when responding to reports at speed with limited information and potentially life-ending circumstances |  | | |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:30 - Oct 19 with 2317 views | blueasfook |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:22 - Oct 19 by Ewan_Oozami |
Not going to reply to any specific post on this thread but what I don't understand about the police and crime reports like this is, why don't they send a drone with a 4k camera and sound recording in to assess the scene first and respond appropriately? Much cheaper and less risky than piling in with an ARU I would have thought? |
Cheers |  |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:31 - Oct 19 with 2310 views | giant_stow |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:22 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
And if the same mothers daughter was shot by someone and the police hadn’t responded quickly to reports of someone with a gun roaming around I suspect you’d still be blaming the police and sympathising with her.
Just shows it’s a fine line to tread when responding to reports at speed with limited information and potentially life-ending circumstances |
I don't know why you're turning this personal, but its a bit unedifying. I've said nothing about the police in general and appreciate it's a tough dangerous job, but they aren't faultless and must never be treated as such.
I promised myself no more bickering on here, so will leave it there. | |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:40 - Oct 19 with 2288 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:31 - Oct 19 by giant_stow |
I don't know why you're turning this personal, but its a bit unedifying. I've said nothing about the police in general and appreciate it's a tough dangerous job, but they aren't faultless and must never be treated as such.
I promised myself no more bickering on here, so will leave it there. |
With respect the words you chose as the title for the start of this thread clearly set out a clear bias and implied critisim of the police which is entirely your right but equally in so doing you should expect those who see it differently (or at least want to offer a balanced view) to offer their opinions
Had you put (for example) “Mum complains about how police respond to incorrect report of gun threat” your positioning in the conversation would be starting from a very different position
I think you’ve been unfair and unbalanced in your position, I don’t expect you to agree but you should at least try to understand why | | | |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:48 - Oct 19 with 2266 views | leitrimblue |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:40 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
With respect the words you chose as the title for the start of this thread clearly set out a clear bias and implied critisim of the police which is entirely your right but equally in so doing you should expect those who see it differently (or at least want to offer a balanced view) to offer their opinions
Had you put (for example) “Mum complains about how police respond to incorrect report of gun threat” your positioning in the conversation would be starting from a very different position
I think you’ve been unfair and unbalanced in your position, I don’t expect you to agree but you should at least try to understand why |
I imagined his choice of words for the title were influenced by the fact the Met rammed a 13 year old child off his bike while him and his sister were playing with water pistols and pointed guns at him. Or have I misunderstood and that isn't what happened? |  | | |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:57 - Oct 19 with 2233 views | blueasfook |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 14:12 - Oct 19 by Swansea_Blue |
I can imagine it is a hard job and all that, but it doesn't give you a lot of confidence in their capability and judgement if (a) they pile into a 13 year old without clear reason, and (b) can't tell the difference between a water pistol and a firearm.
Seems like they need a bit more training. |
I would imagine it's the tactics of the police to take action first to tackle the suspect and then establish if it's an actual weapon or not.
I think that's the right order of going about things. | |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 16:00 - Oct 19 with 2210 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:48 - Oct 19 by leitrimblue |
I imagined his choice of words for the title were influenced by the fact the Met rammed a 13 year old child off his bike while him and his sister were playing with water pistols and pointed guns at him. Or have I misunderstood and that isn't what happened? |
Ok, will leave it to the cool kids to shout about the nasty police rather than engange in any meaningful discussion.
You haven’t misunderstood anything, you’ve chosen to follow a narrative that meets your prejudice views | | | |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 16:03 - Oct 19 with 2200 views | King_of_Portman_Rd |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 11:32 - Oct 19 by giant_stow |
Given that professional experience, isn't it reasonable to expect pro marksmen to be able to tell the difference between a blue water pistle (held by a child) an a firearm?
Or should all black kids be advised not to play with water guns? [Post edited 19 Oct 2023 11:34]
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I think it’s important to point out that not every ‘viable firearm’ is the conventional shape of a pistol. This isn’t the movies. In fact the ingenuity of those who seek to cause the most harm in our society is as impressive as it is terrifying
At first it was blades hidden in phones, lighters etc. now Plastic Nerf toys are being adapted along with other inconspicuous items to fire live ammunition.
This link probably won’t work.. but it was the first one I found after a few seconds of searching. It (hopefully) shows in picture form just what a ‘viable firearm’ could look like… and these are the ones that have been found and seized
https://www.instagram.com/p/CylUChdL6e1/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I suppose it should be seen as a good thing that members of the public are not fully aware of just what is being used on our streets. As for this incident, feel sorry for the Met, but they don’t half find ways to make life harder for themselves |  | | |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 16:09 - Oct 19 with 2175 views | leitrimblue |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 16:00 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
Ok, will leave it to the cool kids to shout about the nasty police rather than engange in any meaningful discussion.
You haven’t misunderstood anything, you’ve chosen to follow a narrative that meets your prejudice views |
Would you like to point out where I have mentioned nasty police in my post?
It's not a narrative that the Met rammed a 13 year old boy off his bike and pointed guns at him for holding a water pistol it's a fact.
You could point to the difficulties the police have in doing such a job as mitigating factors but there is no point pretending that this event didn't happen | | | |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 16:12 - Oct 19 with 2164 views | WeWereZombies |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 15:40 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
With respect the words you chose as the title for the start of this thread clearly set out a clear bias and implied critisim of the police which is entirely your right but equally in so doing you should expect those who see it differently (or at least want to offer a balanced view) to offer their opinions
Had you put (for example) “Mum complains about how police respond to incorrect report of gun threat” your positioning in the conversation would be starting from a very different position
I think you’ve been unfair and unbalanced in your position, I don’t expect you to agree but you should at least try to understand why |
Firstly 'critisim', tsk - criticism...sorry
More seriously, “Mum complains about how police respond to incorrect report of gun threat” is not an accurate account of the mother's response. The BBC report quotes 'The mother of a black 13-year-old boy says she feels "betrayed" after he was surrounded by armed police when his water pistol was mistaken for a gun...His mother says she is "extremely angry" and the incident has been "a deeply traumatic experience'. Even the BBC headline is more in keeping with the title of this thread 'Boy with water pistol confronted by armed police.'
I'm more puzzled by why this is being reported now, it happened in July but it seems as if she needed to contact her MP and then for the wheels of democracy to slowly turn until eventually someone noticed. |  |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 16:29 - Oct 19 with 2135 views | stickymockwell |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 13:57 - Oct 19 by PassionNotAnger |
You shouldn’t be surprised as your title in the OP made it clear what your starting position in this.
A 13 yr old lad can quite commonly be the size of an adult and certainly whilst riding a bike
Based on info the responding armed response unit would have received (man pointing gun at girl whilst riding a bike) thry they turned up and saw a suspect they have to make a judgment. Taking down a suspect without firing any shots, taser etc and prevent a potential shooting isn’t a bad outcome for them based on what they were advised.
Would rather give the benefit of the doubt to those whose job is go towards people with guns and knives than jump on the keyboard gang for who a lot have the starting position that all cops are bad/incompetent. |
If the police spotted the boy pointing the gun then it's totally acceptable. If it took them more than a few minutes to get there then I'm sure the public and the police could work out it was harmless fun before knocking him off his bike etc.
I expect they didn't even look to see what it was or the fact the child probably wasn't even pointing it when they turned up.
If it was a real incident the public would be running for their lives |  |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 16:34 - Oct 19 with 2128 views | stickymockwell |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 16:29 - Oct 19 by stickymockwell |
If the police spotted the boy pointing the gun then it's totally acceptable. If it took them more than a few minutes to get there then I'm sure the public and the police could work out it was harmless fun before knocking him off his bike etc.
I expect they didn't even look to see what it was or the fact the child probably wasn't even pointing it when they turned up.
If it was a real incident the public would be running for their lives |
Maybe with children, they should use the "drop the gun and put your hands up" call first. I'm sure Police cars have loud speakers [Post edited 19 Oct 2023 16:36]
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 16:52 - Oct 19 with 2105 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I guess it was easier to establish that the girl holding the pink water pistol was not a threat to life and didn't need the same treatment? Why did the boy need handcuffing before they established that that there was no threat?
I suppose the mother should be thankful he didn't get tasered three times and then kicked in the head before being beaten repeatedly with a truncheon while on the ground. |  |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 17:15 - Oct 19 with 2059 views | Ryorry |
| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 16:03 - Oct 19 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
I think it’s important to point out that not every ‘viable firearm’ is the conventional shape of a pistol. This isn’t the movies. In fact the ingenuity of those who seek to cause the most harm in our society is as impressive as it is terrifying
At first it was blades hidden in phones, lighters etc. now Plastic Nerf toys are being adapted along with other inconspicuous items to fire live ammunition.
This link probably won’t work.. but it was the first one I found after a few seconds of searching. It (hopefully) shows in picture form just what a ‘viable firearm’ could look like… and these are the ones that have been found and seized
https://www.instagram.com/p/CylUChdL6e1/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I suppose it should be seen as a good thing that members of the public are not fully aware of just what is being used on our streets. As for this incident, feel sorry for the Met, but they don’t half find ways to make life harder for themselves |
Whereas if these "viable firearms" were being waved around, pointed by, and at kids in private gardens, the police would have taken no action at all, because unseen & unreported (except maybe by a neighbour with a grudge).
Talk about stark reminder of the wealth divide.
How many kids' playgrounds, play-parks or yoof clubs are there in that area? |  |
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| Met rammed boy, 13, playing with water pistol off bike and pointed guns at him on 17:19 - Oct 19 with 2042 views | matteoblue |
England, 2023 |  |
| We are Premier League, say we are Premier League! |
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