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Has it really come to this? on 12:23 - Oct 23 by Darth_Koont
I don't think that Novara or Michael Walker are quibbling about the details.
Quite rightly, they were/are concerned with unconfirmed reports being spread as confirmed news by the sheer weight of coverage of the reports themselves. Something it seems that Biden himself got on the wrong side of last week.
Journalists have a duty to establish the facts or at least have several sources and as independent and reliable as possible. But especially during a war where tensions, emotions are understandably at the very limit. As well as any escalations that these fuel.
Anyone who is denying the attacks happened, saying that they were military in nature rather than horrifically targeting civilians, or is quibbling with the details in order to cast doubt on any of the above is part of the problem. But we still need better and more responsible standards of journalism too.
He is quibbling
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[post redacted].... on 12:59 - Oct 23 with 3617 views
Has it really come to this? on 12:23 - Oct 23 by Darth_Koont
I don't think that Novara or Michael Walker are quibbling about the details.
Quite rightly, they were/are concerned with unconfirmed reports being spread as confirmed news by the sheer weight of coverage of the reports themselves. Something it seems that Biden himself got on the wrong side of last week.
Journalists have a duty to establish the facts or at least have several sources and as independent and reliable as possible. But especially during a war where tensions, emotions are understandably at the very limit. As well as any escalations that these fuel.
Anyone who is denying the attacks happened, saying that they were military in nature rather than horrifically targeting civilians, or is quibbling with the details in order to cast doubt on any of the above is part of the problem. But we still need better and more responsible standards of journalism too.
It's a good point.
Drawing a fairly contemporary comparison, we would certainly seek an independent source for these sorts of claims if they were being made by Russian government/media as part of the ongoing war in Ukraine, and we would probably take a similar stance if Palestinian media was making similar sorts of claims aginst Israel.
I can't see why it's wrong to ask that similar Israeli claims (whilst not denying the basic facts of the matter) are submitted to the same scrutiny.
Has it really come to this? on 12:47 - Oct 23 by Clapham_Junction
He is quibbling
Isn’t he talking about journalists though?
This was his take before which is hard to disagree with. I don’t believe he’s talking about justifying denialism in the wider population. That’s not remotely his style nor politics.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Has it really come to this? on 13:07 - Oct 23 with 3549 views
Has it really come to this? on 11:15 - Oct 23 by GlasgowBlue
I’ve been out this morning and am not going to get bogged down in semantics over this dreadful masacre.
Clapham junction has already linked Novara’s Michael Walker. Are novara serious? Well they are often quoted on here as a serious news source, have a big reach in the left side of politics and are regularly invited to comment on Sky News, BBC News and Question Time.
Add to that the number of so called moderate Palestinian voices that have been interviewed on the news channels have been denying some of the more vile acts of brutality took place and dressing it up as legitimate resistance.
And then we have ITV News platforming a presenter from Iran’s antisemitic Press TV channel.
Not many credible people are denying that Israeli civilians were murdered. But they are arguing the toss over whether babies were decapitated or merely shot in the back of the head, as if this is a far more humane execution. We even had it in here for a few days.
So yes, it has come to this. I won’t be commenting any further, unless somebody posts something so outrageous that it needs challenging. I’ve made my point.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2023 11:40]
I have been staying off these threads since the pile on when Israel were alleged to have bombed the hospital last week (all that "rage" has gone quiet now funny enough).
There's no balanced views on here, just the usual suspects posting pro-Palestinian nonsense, giving each other upvotes, and downvoting anyone who dares to challenge their biased opinions.
"Blueas is a great guy, one of the best." - Donald Trump
Has it really come to this? on 13:07 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
I have been staying off these threads since the pile on when Israel were alleged to have bombed the hospital last week (all that "rage" has gone quiet now funny enough).
There's no balanced views on here, just the usual suspects posting pro-Palestinian nonsense, giving each other upvotes, and downvoting anyone who dares to challenge their biased opinions.
Apart from a few obvious exceptions, I'd say the discussions on here have been largely balanced and civilised.
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Has it really come to this? on 13:17 - Oct 23 with 3449 views
Has it really come to this? on 13:07 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
I have been staying off these threads since the pile on when Israel were alleged to have bombed the hospital last week (all that "rage" has gone quiet now funny enough).
There's no balanced views on here, just the usual suspects posting pro-Palestinian nonsense, giving each other upvotes, and downvoting anyone who dares to challenge their biased opinions.
I genuinely do not think that is accurate.
I certainly don't consider myself "pro palestinian". I do recognise the cycle of violence and that the side with the economic and military power is the one which has to start breaking it though.
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Has it really come to this? on 13:22 - Oct 23 with 3376 views
Has it really come to this? on 13:07 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
I have been staying off these threads since the pile on when Israel were alleged to have bombed the hospital last week (all that "rage" has gone quiet now funny enough).
There's no balanced views on here, just the usual suspects posting pro-Palestinian nonsense, giving each other upvotes, and downvoting anyone who dares to challenge their biased opinions.
Patently untrue.
And downvoted.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Has it really come to this? on 13:22 - Oct 23 with 3390 views
Has it really come to this? on 13:07 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
I have been staying off these threads since the pile on when Israel were alleged to have bombed the hospital last week (all that "rage" has gone quiet now funny enough).
There's no balanced views on here, just the usual suspects posting pro-Palestinian nonsense, giving each other upvotes, and downvoting anyone who dares to challenge their biased opinions.
Thank you all for proving my point perfectly. 3 downvotes from the usual suspects. Expecting a few more yet.
"Blueas is a great guy, one of the best." - Donald Trump
Has it really come to this? on 13:13 - Oct 23 by Blueschev
Apart from a few obvious exceptions, I'd say the discussions on here have been largely balanced and civilised.
i'd say, with a few exceptions, it's better than i might have expected, better that at times in the past, and better than with lots of online discussion (particularly where people post anonymously). i disagree with some of it, and there has been a bit of trolling on very sensitive stuff, but generally it's more civilised than the circumstances might have implied.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Has it really come to this? on 13:28 - Oct 23 with 3316 views
Has it really come to this? on 13:19 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
Well, you would say that. You are one of the main, if not the main protagonist.
I see I got your usual downvote, true to form. Grow up, and try to have a proper debate without being childish.
You've clearly not read any of my posts based on that characterisation and as usual you're looking to pick a fight with those you view as having a different opinion to you rather than making a meaningful contribution. And then you've started blubbing about down votes again. If you can't engage in debate then stay away from it, you're embarrassing yourself.
Has it really come to this? on 13:28 - Oct 23 by Herbivore
You've clearly not read any of my posts based on that characterisation and as usual you're looking to pick a fight with those you view as having a different opinion to you rather than making a meaningful contribution. And then you've started blubbing about down votes again. If you can't engage in debate then stay away from it, you're embarrassing yourself.
I made a point that anyone who challenges the view of the "usual suspects" gets downvoted. I got downvoted last week just for advocating "let's wait for clear evidence" before condemning Israel for the hospital bombing.
I'd say it's the people who just downvote an opposing view every time are the ones who can't engage in debate.
It's pathetic and serves to discourage others from getting involved. As I said, I keep off these threads now as its exasperating thanks to the likes of you.
"Blueas is a great guy, one of the best." - Donald Trump
Has it really come to this? on 11:49 - Oct 23 by redrickstuhaart
Most of us have not ever even heard of Novara or Michael Walker.
Quite. It seems to be a Twitter argument that is spilling over onto here. If people are denying the attacks took place that's clearly horrendous, if they're arguing the toss over quite how young kids were killed that's also in exceedingly poor taste. People should have more respect for the victims and their families.
None of those things are happening in the mainstream media in the UK though. Not from what I've seen anyway.
I'm glad I kicked social media into the long grass. Parts of it are a cesspit of unverifiable nonsense.
Has it really come to this? on 13:33 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
I made a point that anyone who challenges the view of the "usual suspects" gets downvoted. I got downvoted last week just for advocating "let's wait for clear evidence" before condemning Israel for the hospital bombing.
I'd say it's the people who just downvote an opposing view every time are the ones who can't engage in debate.
It's pathetic and serves to discourage others from getting involved. As I said, I keep off these threads now as its exasperating thanks to the likes of you.
I'm surprised this didn't get more downvotes, just for the bantz.
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Has it really come to this? on 14:06 - Oct 23 with 3147 views
Has it really come to this? on 13:33 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
I made a point that anyone who challenges the view of the "usual suspects" gets downvoted. I got downvoted last week just for advocating "let's wait for clear evidence" before condemning Israel for the hospital bombing.
I'd say it's the people who just downvote an opposing view every time are the ones who can't engage in debate.
It's pathetic and serves to discourage others from getting involved. As I said, I keep off these threads now as its exasperating thanks to the likes of you.
"usual suspects", "likes of you" - yeah, you're really engaging in some grown up dialogue here, friend. You haven't challenged anyone's view on this thread, you've simply piled in and mischaracterised 90% of the discussion that's taken place since the 7th of October. Presumably you think the banter boys will approve of your stance, hard to see what else the point is.
Has it really come to this? on 13:33 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
I made a point that anyone who challenges the view of the "usual suspects" gets downvoted. I got downvoted last week just for advocating "let's wait for clear evidence" before condemning Israel for the hospital bombing.
I'd say it's the people who just downvote an opposing view every time are the ones who can't engage in debate.
It's pathetic and serves to discourage others from getting involved. As I said, I keep off these threads now as its exasperating thanks to the likes of you.
downvoting a view you don't agree with is the whole point of the downvoting button. what are you suggesting we use it for otherwise?!
if the poster then challenges the view, that's the dictionary definition of engaging in debate
Has it really come to this? on 13:33 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
I made a point that anyone who challenges the view of the "usual suspects" gets downvoted. I got downvoted last week just for advocating "let's wait for clear evidence" before condemning Israel for the hospital bombing.
I'd say it's the people who just downvote an opposing view every time are the ones who can't engage in debate.
It's pathetic and serves to discourage others from getting involved. As I said, I keep off these threads now as its exasperating thanks to the likes of you.
Give over you massive fanny.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Has it really come to this? on 13:33 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
I made a point that anyone who challenges the view of the "usual suspects" gets downvoted. I got downvoted last week just for advocating "let's wait for clear evidence" before condemning Israel for the hospital bombing.
I'd say it's the people who just downvote an opposing view every time are the ones who can't engage in debate.
It's pathetic and serves to discourage others from getting involved. As I said, I keep off these threads now as its exasperating thanks to the likes of you.
I really don't think this is a fair reflection of the debate on here at all and not really helpful to claim that it is.
Has it really come to this? on 13:33 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
I made a point that anyone who challenges the view of the "usual suspects" gets downvoted. I got downvoted last week just for advocating "let's wait for clear evidence" before condemning Israel for the hospital bombing.
I'd say it's the people who just downvote an opposing view every time are the ones who can't engage in debate.
It's pathetic and serves to discourage others from getting involved. As I said, I keep off these threads now as its exasperating thanks to the likes of you.
....didn't there used to be a limit on the number of down/upvotes a user could dish out in a day?
I think it was 5.
Would it be worth bringing that back?
It would stop people downvoting the poster rather than the post.
"Great to see you back on here mate, I was considering deactivating my account if you hadn’t returned" - TWTD User (Aug 2025)
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Has it really come to this? on 15:19 - Oct 23 with 2892 views
Has it really come to this? on 13:22 - Oct 23 by blueasfook
Thank you all for proving my point perfectly. 3 downvotes from the usual suspects. Expecting a few more yet.
Sorry Blueas but I gave you a downvote and I'm certainly not one of your "usual suspects".
I'm disappointed that this conflict has polarised nearly everybody and very few people are being reported in our media pushing for peace. Where people have pushed for peace they have (in many instances) been labelled as pro-hamas or anti-Israel. This is a great shame.
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