| So in a protest for peace 10:20 - Nov 12 with 18175 views | GlasgowBlue |
Peter Tatchell was stopped from marching for holding sings saying
“Free Palestine”.
“Armistice Now”.
“End Israel’s Occupation”. (Twice)
“End Hamas’s Sexist, Homophobic, AntiHuman Rights Dictatorship”
What part did the organisers disagree with?
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| So in a protest for peace on 13:25 - Nov 12 with 2097 views | J2BLUE |
| So in a protest for peace on 12:16 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
And how do you feel about British Jews avoiding going into the capital city of their country at the weekend? |
I cannot believe what I am witnessing with the Antisemitism in western countries at the moment.
I couldn't agree more with the Dan Hodges tweet. |  |
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| So in a protest for peace on 13:51 - Nov 12 with 2024 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So in a protest for peace on 12:49 - Nov 12 by redrickstuhaart |
What aboutism at its worst.
We know that many nations are way behind us in realising that religous driven bigotry and prejudice against lbtq people is bad. But mass killing of civilians is still worse. And that is what the march was about.
Of course there are vicious idiots among 300,000 people. They shoul dbe dealt with where they cross the line. There were far more amongst the "counter protest" though you wouldnt know it from about 50% of the media and headlines.
Of course people care, but to pretend the only hateful genocidal inclinations are on one side is just wrong. [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 12:51]
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Define Whatabouttery | |
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| So in a protest for peace on 14:20 - Nov 12 with 1973 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| So in a protest for peace on 13:07 - Nov 12 by giant_stow |
I only read the following in a random tweet, but he apparently called for the West to arm Ukraine. |
And that doesn't really make any sense either.
I am curious as to whether there is any justification from what he did on that march or whether the assumption that it is an objection to the last line of his banner that is behind the decision is the full story. |  |
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| So in a protest for peace on 14:21 - Nov 12 with 1970 views | redrickstuhaart |
| So in a protest for peace on 13:51 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Define Whatabouttery |
Avoid the point. |  | | |
| So in a protest for peace on 14:24 - Nov 12 with 1950 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| So in a protest for peace on 14:21 - Nov 12 by redrickstuhaart |
Avoid the point. |
That made me smile! | |
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| So in a protest for peace on 14:38 - Nov 12 with 1913 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So in a protest for peace on 14:21 - Nov 12 by redrickstuhaart |
Avoid the point. |
You’re opening gambit was that my post was whatabouterry. If you want me to address any points you may have made then you need to back up your opening line. | |
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| So in a protest for peace on 14:39 - Nov 12 with 1898 views | giant_stow |
| So in a protest for peace on 14:20 - Nov 12 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And that doesn't really make any sense either.
I am curious as to whether there is any justification from what he did on that march or whether the assumption that it is an objection to the last line of his banner that is behind the decision is the full story. |
If the tweeter is correct, I guess the implication is that he's not a 'proper' member of the left wing / Stop the War camp. I don't think he was allowed to march, so couldn't have misbehaved. Maybe more will come out though. |  |
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| So in a protest for peace on 14:41 - Nov 12 with 1889 views | Buhrer |
| So in a protest for peace on 10:38 - Nov 12 by StokieBlue |
Why focus on a few errors that were made rather than the 300,000+ who marched peacefully to make their point?
SB [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 10:43]
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Is it because it looks like this teeny little mistake, could be evidence of a policy of suppressing legal dissent? And surely a good way to do that would be to target any possible radical or alternative voice with a platform that could challenge the mainstream narrative. But course not. Nothing to see here. Move along, now.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/06/head-of-uks-leading-anti-monarch |  | | |
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| So in a protest for peace on 15:11 - Nov 12 with 1814 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So in a protest for peace on 14:24 - Nov 12 by Nthsuffolkblue |
That made me smile! |
What was it about his/her/their dismissal of my post highlighting homophobia, racism and support for the murder, rape and mutilation of innocent civilians that you found so amusing? | |
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| So in a protest for peace on 15:33 - Nov 12 with 1763 views | Clapham_Junction |
| So in a protest for peace on 11:30 - Nov 12 by StokieBlue |
I mistakenly edited out the part where I said it was a ridiculous decision by the organisers. I thought I had left that in.
Those examples are awful but there were hundreds of thousands of people there who marched peacefully and you've made no reference to it. You've not mentioned antisemitism in your original post and given no examples so to single me out and post a number of examples about something I didn't comment on is a bit wrong in my opinion.
There will always be some idiots in any large group, they should be dealt with appropriately.
SB |
It's the same modus operandi as during the Corbyn Labour leadership - highlight the few racists and idiots to delegitimise the views of hundreds of thousands of non-problematic supporters.
I'm pretty sure it would be possible to cherrypick a similar number of examples of Israelis saying terrible things (like the MP that said Gaza should be nuked), but what's the point. |  | | |
| So in a protest for peace on 15:43 - Nov 12 with 1716 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So in a protest for peace on 15:33 - Nov 12 by Clapham_Junction |
It's the same modus operandi as during the Corbyn Labour leadership - highlight the few racists and idiots to delegitimise the views of hundreds of thousands of non-problematic supporters.
I'm pretty sure it would be possible to cherrypick a similar number of examples of Israelis saying terrible things (like the MP that said Gaza should be nuked), but what's the point. |
"few racists and idiots"? That's a pretty sh1tty staetement imo and dismisses vile racism.
Perhaps if you felt unable to stroll around London at the weekend because of your ethnicity then you'd soon change your mind. Really sad that once again we see posters dismiss or trivialise racism because it comes from "their side".
And yes, the vile Israeli MP was quite rightly highlighted on here. | |
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| So in a protest for peace on 15:57 - Nov 12 with 1669 views | Clapham_Junction |
| So in a protest for peace on 15:43 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
"few racists and idiots"? That's a pretty sh1tty staetement imo and dismisses vile racism.
Perhaps if you felt unable to stroll around London at the weekend because of your ethnicity then you'd soon change your mind. Really sad that once again we see posters dismiss or trivialise racism because it comes from "their side".
And yes, the vile Israeli MP was quite rightly highlighted on here. |
Perhaps you could stop making sh1tty assumptions about which side people are on. I support the Israeli action in Gaza as IMO, the events of 7 October were the final straw that means Hamas need removing. I wish the IDF would do it differently and avoid civilian deaths, but given how Hamas have intertwined themselves with the fabric of Gaza, I'm not sure how easy that is.
What I am objecting to is you tarring large groups of people with the same brush, as you have tended to do with large movements that contradict your personal views. The fact that you then twist that to claim I'm trivialising or dismissing racism is unfortunately typical of you. | | | |
| So in a protest for peace on 17:48 - Nov 12 with 1515 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So in a protest for peace on 15:57 - Nov 12 by Clapham_Junction |
Perhaps you could stop making sh1tty assumptions about which side people are on. I support the Israeli action in Gaza as IMO, the events of 7 October were the final straw that means Hamas need removing. I wish the IDF would do it differently and avoid civilian deaths, but given how Hamas have intertwined themselves with the fabric of Gaza, I'm not sure how easy that is.
What I am objecting to is you tarring large groups of people with the same brush, as you have tended to do with large movements that contradict your personal views. The fact that you then twist that to claim I'm trivialising or dismissing racism is unfortunately typical of you. |
With all due respect, when there is widespread antisemitism and support for the actions of Hamas at these protests, to the extent that Jewish people are avoiding going into London at weekends, and you flippantly put it down to a "few racists and idiots", then you are guilty of dismissing and trivialising racism. Sorry that upsets you.
London in 2023. Just a few idiots and racists. Nothing to see here. Nothing for Jews to worry about in London.
[Post edited 12 Nov 2023 17:53]
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| So in a protest for peace on 18:04 - Nov 12 with 1470 views | Herbivore |
| So in a protest for peace on 17:48 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
With all due respect, when there is widespread antisemitism and support for the actions of Hamas at these protests, to the extent that Jewish people are avoiding going into London at weekends, and you flippantly put it down to a "few racists and idiots", then you are guilty of dismissing and trivialising racism. Sorry that upsets you.
London in 2023. Just a few idiots and racists. Nothing to see here. Nothing for Jews to worry about in London.
[Post edited 12 Nov 2023 17:53]
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Those two posts include photos of the same small group of men. Is support for Hamas and antisemitism really "widespread" or does your social media mean you are over-exposed to it? As I said before, any antisemitism at all is too much antisemitism and should be condemned and those responsible should be dealt with accordingly. But you are keen to tar 300,000+ protestors with the label of supporting Hamas and supporting antisemitism when all bar a small minority of that group just want to see peace and in no way condone the actions of Hamas. |  |
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| So in a protest for peace on 18:08 - Nov 12 with 1447 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| So in a protest for peace on 15:11 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
What was it about his/her/their dismissal of my post highlighting homophobia, racism and support for the murder, rape and mutilation of innocent civilians that you found so amusing? |
Feel free to point me to where I have done any of that but then you aren't stupid enough to believe that I did are you? I think it's about time you took a long look in the mirror really.
And for what it's worth, it wasn't me that hit abuse for your little theatrical rant, either! [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 18:09]
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| So in a protest for peace on 18:18 - Nov 12 with 1415 views | Trequartista |
Maybe it was his letter to the Guardian in 1997 that they still remember?
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| So in a protest for peace on 18:19 - Nov 12 with 1415 views | Swansea_Blue |
It sounds like he was being deliberately provocative and they didn’t want someone stirring things up given they were under a microscope.
There’s nothing wrong with any of his messages of course. |  |
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| So in a protest for peace on 18:27 - Nov 12 with 1376 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So in a protest for peace on 18:04 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
Those two posts include photos of the same small group of men. Is support for Hamas and antisemitism really "widespread" or does your social media mean you are over-exposed to it? As I said before, any antisemitism at all is too much antisemitism and should be condemned and those responsible should be dealt with accordingly. But you are keen to tar 300,000+ protestors with the label of supporting Hamas and supporting antisemitism when all bar a small minority of that group just want to see peace and in no way condone the actions of Hamas. |
Not sure how liking a tweet from a lifelong supporter of Palestinian rights is tarring
300,000+ protestors with the label of supporting Hamas and supporting antisemitism.
At the same time, it can't be dismissed as a small minority or a few racists and idiots when London is no longer a safe space for Jews when these protests are taking place.
A lot of this is coming across as white privilege imo. | |
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| So in a protest for peace on 18:30 - Nov 12 with 1364 views | GlasgowBlue |
| So in a protest for peace on 18:19 - Nov 12 by Swansea_Blue |
It sounds like he was being deliberately provocative and they didn’t want someone stirring things up given they were under a microscope.
There’s nothing wrong with any of his messages of course. |
What part of
“Free Palestine”.
“Armistice Now”.
“End Israel’s Occupation”. (Twice)
“End Hamas’s Sexist, Homophobic, AntiHuman Rights Dictatorship”
is provocative?
If, as you say, there is nothing wrong with his message then why is it provocative? Who would be offended but his message? [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 18:38]
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| So in a protest for peace on 18:50 - Nov 12 with 1291 views | Swansea_Blue |
| So in a protest for peace on 18:30 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
What part of
“Free Palestine”.
“Armistice Now”.
“End Israel’s Occupation”. (Twice)
“End Hamas’s Sexist, Homophobic, AntiHuman Rights Dictatorship”
is provocative?
If, as you say, there is nothing wrong with his message then why is it provocative? Who would be offended but his message? [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 18:38]
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A) it sounds like he has a history of disruption
B) he’s clearly looking for a reaction with the last one in front of a (presumably) largely Muslim audience (or at least muslim-friendly), where we all know muslim nations don’t have the best record with homophobia.
C) It’s not a message that was part of the official event.
He’s clearly looking for a rise and response/publicity. That seems bleedingly obvious to me.
There’s nothing stopping him from starting his own demonstration against Hamas. It would be a very valid aim. | |
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| So in a protest for peace on 18:51 - Nov 12 with 1287 views | LankHenners |
| So in a protest for peace on 18:19 - Nov 12 by Swansea_Blue |
It sounds like he was being deliberately provocative and they didn’t want someone stirring things up given they were under a microscope.
There’s nothing wrong with any of his messages of course. |
Yes I think quite a bit of it has to do with Tatchell's presence in itself which caused a bit of a stir. I know he's been criticised in the past for turning up to protests with signs that, while not having anything *wrong* written on them, aren't 'on message' and are different enough to put himself in the spotlight.
Basically he's seen as a bit of an attention-seeker and a distraction rather than a help. In this instance the protest was against the government's apparent (in the view of the protestors) indifference to the Palestinians under attack from Israel's forces and their strategy for dealing with the situation. Rocking up with a sign about Hamas' poor attitude to human rights, regardless of its truth, isn't really relevant to the march's purpose. As it is by telling him to p!ss off they've given him the attention he was after anyway. |  |
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| So in a protest for peace on 19:16 - Nov 12 with 1236 views | Herbivore |
| So in a protest for peace on 18:27 - Nov 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Not sure how liking a tweet from a lifelong supporter of Palestinian rights is tarring
300,000+ protestors with the label of supporting Hamas and supporting antisemitism.
At the same time, it can't be dismissed as a small minority or a few racists and idiots when London is no longer a safe space for Jews when these protests are taking place.
A lot of this is coming across as white privilege imo. |
You're making a false inherence there, the feelings of some Jewish people about their safety does not demonstrate that support for Hamas and antisemitism is "widespread" within the marches. There have been groups of Jewish people joining the marches. That people feel afraid is clearly unacceptable and abhorrent but you can't infer from those subjective feelings that there is "widespread" antisemitism and support for Hamas amongst a march involving 300,000+ people. That there is any antisemitism is unacceptable and it needs to be rooted out and not tolerated but I don't think it's helpful to suggest that the overall tone of the protests is antisemitic or pro-Hamas when the evidence suggests that it is a small minority espousing extreme and racist rhetoric. [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 19:16]
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| So in a protest for peace on 19:26 - Nov 12 with 1184 views | MattinLondon |
| So in a protest for peace on 19:16 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
You're making a false inherence there, the feelings of some Jewish people about their safety does not demonstrate that support for Hamas and antisemitism is "widespread" within the marches. There have been groups of Jewish people joining the marches. That people feel afraid is clearly unacceptable and abhorrent but you can't infer from those subjective feelings that there is "widespread" antisemitism and support for Hamas amongst a march involving 300,000+ people. That there is any antisemitism is unacceptable and it needs to be rooted out and not tolerated but I don't think it's helpful to suggest that the overall tone of the protests is antisemitic or pro-Hamas when the evidence suggests that it is a small minority espousing extreme and racist rhetoric. [Post edited 12 Nov 2023 19:16]
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Approximately 300k people walked on that march which in terms of numbers alone is twice the size of Ipswich and then some more. With that amount of people then unfortunately you are going to get some pure scum intent on pushing their unpalatable believes and grabbing the attention. That’s not me dismissing antisemitism, or even accepting it but with so many people you will get some vile individuals.
I’m going by what I’ve read on the BBC and what is termed as the ‘mainstream media’ and the overall consensus seems to be that the march was largely peaceful in both atmosphere and tone. |  | | |
| So in a protest for peace on 19:39 - Nov 12 with 1130 views | J2BLUE |
That is great to see. Well done France. | |
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