| How good do these look at Villa Park? 21:28 - Feb 7 with 5758 views | Mullet |
Would be a great addition at FPR when we go up. |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:39 - Feb 7 with 4684 views | Basuco |
No, when the entire North Stand stands anyway, why introduce a small standing area? Stewards would then enforce all those around the standing area to sit. We and every other club would be worse off not better off. Unless you would be lucky enough to get one of the limited number of standing tickets. |  | | |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:43 - Feb 7 with 4639 views | MattinLondon |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:39 - Feb 7 by Basuco |
No, when the entire North Stand stands anyway, why introduce a small standing area? Stewards would then enforce all those around the standing area to sit. We and every other club would be worse off not better off. Unless you would be lucky enough to get one of the limited number of standing tickets. |
Ever since the rebuild of the NS, the club have turned a blind eye to fans continuously standing. The only logic to introducing safe-standing would be if the capacity increased but im not sure that that would be the case. |  | | |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:50 - Feb 7 with 4573 views | bournemouthblue |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:39 - Feb 7 by Basuco |
No, when the entire North Stand stands anyway, why introduce a small standing area? Stewards would then enforce all those around the standing area to sit. We and every other club would be worse off not better off. Unless you would be lucky enough to get one of the limited number of standing tickets. |
I don't think it necessarily increases capacity either but would make a lot of sense in the North Lower |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 22:03 - Feb 7 with 4496 views | SitfcB |
Experienced it for the first time at Old Trafford on Sunday, nice to have something to lean on 
Also kept me separated from the jubilant Mancs that surrounded us after each goal, me and my boy did a great impression of being Utd fans, felt dirty. |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 23:19 - Feb 7 with 4280 views | Sharkey |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 22:03 - Feb 7 by SitfcB |
Experienced it for the first time at Old Trafford on Sunday, nice to have something to lean on
Also kept me separated from the jubilant Mancs that surrounded us after each goal, me and my boy did a great impression of being Utd fans, felt dirty. |
I agree with you, safe standing is much more comfortable than just standing, because as you say you have something to lean on. And I'm surprised if the capacity isn't greater too. This is what Wikipedia says about Malmö's stadium:
"In league matches, the stadium has a capacity of 22,500, of which 18,000 are seated, and 4,500 are standing. In European matches, the 4,500 standing places are converted to 3,000 seats, making the stadium a 21,000-capacity all-seater". |  | | |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 23:39 - Feb 7 with 4238 views | Jon_456 |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 23:19 - Feb 7 by Sharkey |
I agree with you, safe standing is much more comfortable than just standing, because as you say you have something to lean on. And I'm surprised if the capacity isn't greater too. This is what Wikipedia says about Malmö's stadium:
"In league matches, the stadium has a capacity of 22,500, of which 18,000 are seated, and 4,500 are standing. In European matches, the 4,500 standing places are converted to 3,000 seats, making the stadium a 21,000-capacity all-seater". |
European safe standing and UK safe standing tend to be two different ideas.
From all the installations I’ve seen in the UK, they’ve simply added rails on every row which makes it a bit safer to stand but without any change in capacity.
In Europe the actual seating system is replaced by (usually) metal seats built into the rails which can lock / unlock. So for European games the seats can be locked down to comply with UEFA regs but during domestic competition they lock up, creating an old style terrace which then allows a greater capacity.
Regardless of system though, for domestic games the UK will still only sell one ticket per seat whereas European clubs will increase ticket sales to something like 4 tickets for every 3 seats. [Post edited 7 Feb 23:43]
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 00:55 - Feb 8 with 4137 views | Swansea_Blue |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 23:39 - Feb 7 by Jon_456 |
European safe standing and UK safe standing tend to be two different ideas.
From all the installations I’ve seen in the UK, they’ve simply added rails on every row which makes it a bit safer to stand but without any change in capacity.
In Europe the actual seating system is replaced by (usually) metal seats built into the rails which can lock / unlock. So for European games the seats can be locked down to comply with UEFA regs but during domestic competition they lock up, creating an old style terrace which then allows a greater capacity.
Regardless of system though, for domestic games the UK will still only sell one ticket per seat whereas European clubs will increase ticket sales to something like 4 tickets for every 3 seats. [Post edited 7 Feb 23:43]
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Yeah, and you can see it in the pictures in the OP. One seat = 1 standing space. No change in capacity. |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 01:03 - Feb 8 with 4129 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 23:39 - Feb 7 by Jon_456 |
European safe standing and UK safe standing tend to be two different ideas.
From all the installations I’ve seen in the UK, they’ve simply added rails on every row which makes it a bit safer to stand but without any change in capacity.
In Europe the actual seating system is replaced by (usually) metal seats built into the rails which can lock / unlock. So for European games the seats can be locked down to comply with UEFA regs but during domestic competition they lock up, creating an old style terrace which then allows a greater capacity.
Regardless of system though, for domestic games the UK will still only sell one ticket per seat whereas European clubs will increase ticket sales to something like 4 tickets for every 3 seats. [Post edited 7 Feb 23:43]
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As the rails are an afterthought here, I would be concerned at how a full row would being able to take the load. I would have thought that that from an engineering point of view that long rows would be broken down into several sets of smaller rails spreading the force of bodies especially during celebrations. |  | | |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 09:29 - Feb 8 with 3604 views | ITFC_Forever |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:39 - Feb 7 by Basuco |
No, when the entire North Stand stands anyway, why introduce a small standing area? Stewards would then enforce all those around the standing area to sit. We and every other club would be worse off not better off. Unless you would be lucky enough to get one of the limited number of standing tickets. |
The entire North doesn't stand, just the lower tier.
Then the easiest thing to do would be to introduce safe standing in all the Lower North. |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 10:53 - Feb 8 with 3370 views | Slambo |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:43 - Feb 7 by MattinLondon |
Ever since the rebuild of the NS, the club have turned a blind eye to fans continuously standing. The only logic to introducing safe-standing would be if the capacity increased but im not sure that that would be the case. |
They'll have to do something though, as the SGSA are really clamping down on standing in seated areas, arguing - fairly - that, as standing areas are legal now, clubs have no excuse not to install them... |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 10:56 - Feb 8 with 3358 views | Slambo |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 23:39 - Feb 7 by Jon_456 |
European safe standing and UK safe standing tend to be two different ideas.
From all the installations I’ve seen in the UK, they’ve simply added rails on every row which makes it a bit safer to stand but without any change in capacity.
In Europe the actual seating system is replaced by (usually) metal seats built into the rails which can lock / unlock. So for European games the seats can be locked down to comply with UEFA regs but during domestic competition they lock up, creating an old style terrace which then allows a greater capacity.
Regardless of system though, for domestic games the UK will still only sell one ticket per seat whereas European clubs will increase ticket sales to something like 4 tickets for every 3 seats. [Post edited 7 Feb 23:43]
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However, UEFA are beginning to thaw on this. It's likely that, in 2-3 years, clubs will no longer have to have all-seaters to compete in UEFA competitions... | |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 11:04 - Feb 8 with 3326 views | Slambo |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 00:55 - Feb 8 by Swansea_Blue |
Yeah, and you can see it in the pictures in the OP. One seat = 1 standing space. No change in capacity. |
I just wonder how many lovely old grounds could've been saved if this ridiculous law on standing at games had been junked sooner. So many clubs have outgrown their grounds, but reinstalling 'proper' terraces would immediately tack on an extra 3-4 thousand capacity... | |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 11:14 - Feb 8 with 3285 views | Slambo |
Really torn on this. We need standing areas back at football, but these..?! It's cited as being a safer option, but this narrative that 'normal' terracing is inherently dangerous needs to end...
These rail seats would only add to the matchday experience if they were subsequently made unreserved. Otherwise you're just stuck with the same problem you have now: singers mixed in with non-singers, with no way of either to be able to congregate, thus neutralising the atmosphere. The club have a once in a lifetime opportunity to get this right - just hope they don't go for the easy option... | |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 11:30 - Feb 8 with 3223 views | ITFC_Forever |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 11:14 - Feb 8 by Slambo |
Really torn on this. We need standing areas back at football, but these..?! It's cited as being a safer option, but this narrative that 'normal' terracing is inherently dangerous needs to end...
These rail seats would only add to the matchday experience if they were subsequently made unreserved. Otherwise you're just stuck with the same problem you have now: singers mixed in with non-singers, with no way of either to be able to congregate, thus neutralising the atmosphere. The club have a once in a lifetime opportunity to get this right - just hope they don't go for the easy option... |
Not sure how you can make safe standing rails unreserved?
In this day of H&S, clubs can't allow a row to be over-filled.
And equally, you can't have a row under-filled as everyone needs to fit in.
The only answer is to go back to standard terracing - as you say, that isn't inherently dangerous if it's designed correctly. | |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 11:46 - Feb 8 with 3165 views | Bluespeed225 |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 22:03 - Feb 7 by SitfcB |
Experienced it for the first time at Old Trafford on Sunday, nice to have something to lean on
Also kept me separated from the jubilant Mancs that surrounded us after each goal, me and my boy did a great impression of being Utd fans, felt dirty. |
Was it against west ham, if so your fine. | | | |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 12:09 - Feb 8 with 3102 views | DarkBrandon |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:39 - Feb 7 by Basuco |
No, when the entire North Stand stands anyway, why introduce a small standing area? Stewards would then enforce all those around the standing area to sit. We and every other club would be worse off not better off. Unless you would be lucky enough to get one of the limited number of standing tickets. |
I’m not sure “we want to stand, therefore they shouldn’t introduce standing” is that compelling an argument against this.
I think it looks terrible, mind. |  | | |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 12:12 - Feb 8 with 3087 views | Pinewoodblue |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 11:46 - Feb 8 by Bluespeed225 |
Was it against west ham, if so your fine. |
Rails make it safer in so many ways. More difficult to fall out of your row, in all areas of the ground, when you jump up from a seated position when your team scores.
Rails for every seat is the best way to go but at a cost and no increase in capacity. |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 12:17 - Feb 8 with 3068 views | Brads |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 11:14 - Feb 8 by Slambo |
Really torn on this. We need standing areas back at football, but these..?! It's cited as being a safer option, but this narrative that 'normal' terracing is inherently dangerous needs to end...
These rail seats would only add to the matchday experience if they were subsequently made unreserved. Otherwise you're just stuck with the same problem you have now: singers mixed in with non-singers, with no way of either to be able to congregate, thus neutralising the atmosphere. The club have a once in a lifetime opportunity to get this right - just hope they don't go for the easy option... |
Everything that’s been introduced at ITFC over the last few years just seems to have been what’s already in place at other clubs. I’d be surprised if it wasn’t the same with this and have only seen rail seats installed elsewhere. Can’t see Town going against what seems to have become the industry standard. Am I right in thinking that the only ‘old style’ or ‘normal’ terracing we see now is what’s existed in those stands for years, as opposed to anything new?
Can’t see Town going for unreserved seating either. Even if they did, say in the lower north, would it help much with the singing section elsewhere now? How would people get back in when there aren’t many non ST seats?
Not sure they’ll want a vocal section or away fans in the new Cobbold once it’s updated. Have wondered if both might end up in the south stand, with the concerns about segregation outside minimised by that new walkway and limited access. Quite a lot of non ST seats in the corner of the upper there so if something different was done, it’d probably require less people to move than in the other stands.
*Forgot about the north corner idea. Guess they’ll be forced to do something about standing before any building work is likely to get underway though. [Post edited 8 Feb 12:41]
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 12:51 - Feb 8 with 2940 views | BasingstokeBlue |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 09:29 - Feb 8 by ITFC_Forever |
The entire North doesn't stand, just the lower tier.
Then the easiest thing to do would be to introduce safe standing in all the Lower North. |
And Cobbold A (where we all stand, too). |  |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 12:56 - Feb 8 with 2905 views | Brads |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 12:51 - Feb 8 by BasingstokeBlue |
And Cobbold A (where we all stand, too). |
Plus the back of J in the West… | | | |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 13:30 - Feb 8 with 2793 views | Pinewoodblue |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 12:51 - Feb 8 by BasingstokeBlue |
And Cobbold A (where we all stand, too). |
Cobbold A & first section of away end should be first areas to have rail seats fitted with front three rows required to remain seated. | |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 14:38 - Feb 8 with 2667 views | Brads |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 13:30 - Feb 8 by Pinewoodblue |
Cobbold A & first section of away end should be first areas to have rail seats fitted with front three rows required to remain seated. |
Think something was said about them not being able to do it where the away fans are now (or don’t want to). It wouldn’t get the authorities off their back when the lower north would still be standing either. | | | |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 16:05 - Feb 8 with 2533 views | EastboundSplinter |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 21:43 - Feb 7 by MattinLondon |
Ever since the rebuild of the NS, the club have turned a blind eye to fans continuously standing. The only logic to introducing safe-standing would be if the capacity increased but im not sure that that would be the case. |
That’s simply not true. Maybe it is of late but I’ve witnessed fans ejected from NSL having refused to sit down at the instruction of a steward. |  | | |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 16:22 - Feb 8 with 2498 views | Slambo |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 11:30 - Feb 8 by ITFC_Forever |
Not sure how you can make safe standing rails unreserved?
In this day of H&S, clubs can't allow a row to be over-filled.
And equally, you can't have a row under-filled as everyone needs to fit in.
The only answer is to go back to standard terracing - as you say, that isn't inherently dangerous if it's designed correctly. |
I mean, if it's one standing spot per person, then you just go in and stand on a particular spot..? I can't imagine overfilling would be as much of a problem as there's no danger of anybody spilling over the rows with a waste high barrier in front of them. Whenever I see railseated areas on telly it looks relatively loose, i.e not everyone's packed in like sardines, so there would be a bit of fluidity I think. What i'd envisage happening is lads who want to sing would kind of squeeze in next to each other and everyone would even out over the row. To be honest, this would probably still happen even if it was reserved...
But yeah, you're right. No need for all this faff if they just do it properly with normal terracing - perhaps with some modifications like extra crush barriers... | |
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| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 16:24 - Feb 8 with 2481 views | Brads |
| How good do these look at Villa Park? on 16:05 - Feb 8 by EastboundSplinter |
That’s simply not true. Maybe it is of late but I’ve witnessed fans ejected from NSL having refused to sit down at the instruction of a steward. |
Something like the first five rows were sent letters and targeted last time we were in the Premier League (because the club were under pressure to act) but think they’ve turned a blind eye to it for at least the last 20+ years. | | | |
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