| Nige handing out the big jobs... 21:36 - Jul 11 with 5393 views | Zx1988 |
30p Lee now in charge of the two Reform MPs who don't outrank him. The political equivalent of a patio door on a submarine. |  |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:17 - Jul 12 with 1216 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 22:06 - Jul 11 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Important role because I would imagine there is a lot that the party sees as important that one or other of them won't tow the line on. |
Exactly this. |  |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:18 - Jul 12 with 1214 views | Zx1988 |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:17 - Jul 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Exactly this. |
Will he really have much power, though, given the fact that there are two MPs to keep in line?
It feels to me that a revolt of 40% of the Parliamentary party would be somewhat damaging to the Reform brand, so it doesn't feel as if he holds the whip hand (pun very much intended) when it comes to trying to maintain order within the ranks. | |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:19 - Jul 12 with 1211 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 22:08 - Jul 11 by Zx1988 |
And if there is a difference of opinion, I get the distinct opinion that, at the moment, Reform needs its MPs more than its MPs need the party.
I can't imagine anyone getting the whip withdrawn for not doing as 30p Lee demands. |
These MP's are elected because of the party name. The party funded their campaign, They need Reform more th reform needs them.
It's nothing to do with Anderson's demands. It's to do with them voting how the leadership wants them to vote. Anderson is just the enforcer. | |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:20 - Jul 12 with 1209 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 07:25 - Jul 12 by Plums |
Ben Habib suddenly realising that the 'party' is a limited company run by and for the benefit of its directors Tice and Farage is a thing of joy. They truly are this stupid.
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Isn't he the bloke that even appalled Farage with his racism? | |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:21 - Jul 12 with 1209 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:16 - Jul 12 by GlasgowBlue |
Every party, no matter how big or small, needs a whip to keep them in line. |
The Greens don't have one for their 4 MPs... | | | |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:23 - Jul 12 with 1188 views | Blueschev |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:12 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
I never said claiming asylum was illegal - i said the method they were getting here is illegal ... and once again these people are coming from France .... not a war torm country the last time i checked .... how can you be claiming asylum if you've come from France ??
Hang on everyone let me guess ... next reply
"send me a link where it says France isn't a war torn country"
give me strength ! |
Refugees are not legally obliged to seek asylum in the first "safe" country in which they arrive, and there are a myriad of reasons why they may choose to come here. We still take far less than many other countries.
How are refugees supposed to arrive "legally", apply at the British embassy in the country from where they are fleeing? Give me strength! [Post edited 12 Jul 2024 11:26]
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:26 - Jul 12 with 1163 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:10 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
That's what politicians do tho isn't it ? they just change names of things and rebrand etc and hope people .... like some on here .... swallow it
I'm not going to "Post a link where it says they're making illegal immigration legal" you just arn't listening and don't want to listen .... just cos that isn't what it says word for word ... that doesn't mean that's what's happening.
go online and look up the definition of illegal ..... if you're going to be allowed to apply to stay having come 'illegally' then it isn't fcuking illegal is it ? Like i said it's like robbing a bank and being allowed to keep the money.
whether you think it should be allowed or not allowed etc is a different argument but for this argument they've literally 'solved' the issue of illegal immigration by effectively making it legal and it's just going to encourage more people to get in these small boats and try their luck doing a dangerous journey across the channel because they know they'll have a chance of staying |
"like some on here .... swallow it"
Oh the irony. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:28 - Jul 12 with 1143 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:10 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
That's what politicians do tho isn't it ? they just change names of things and rebrand etc and hope people .... like some on here .... swallow it
I'm not going to "Post a link where it says they're making illegal immigration legal" you just arn't listening and don't want to listen .... just cos that isn't what it says word for word ... that doesn't mean that's what's happening.
go online and look up the definition of illegal ..... if you're going to be allowed to apply to stay having come 'illegally' then it isn't fcuking illegal is it ? Like i said it's like robbing a bank and being allowed to keep the money.
whether you think it should be allowed or not allowed etc is a different argument but for this argument they've literally 'solved' the issue of illegal immigration by effectively making it legal and it's just going to encourage more people to get in these small boats and try their luck doing a dangerous journey across the channel because they know they'll have a chance of staying |
I'll do it for you, to save you the hassle (not paywalled for once).
hassle. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/01/labour-in-limbo-asylum-seekers-5
or the Express version, which is just full of unverified claims with no substance. https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1914824/Keir-Starmer-illegal-immigration
So what's actually happening is that instead of us housing people who arrived here illegally indefinitely, at the tax payers expense, it looks like they will now be able to make a claim for asylum. In international law it is a requirement for us to hear claims for asylum (we're signatories to the 1951 Refugee Convention). It's not an issue of whether people think it should be allowed to or not, it's a legal obligation enforceable in the courts.
If their claim is rejected, they won't have any right to stay in the UK. What we do with them then is still a problem, because the Tories took us out of the Dublin Regulation, which which allowed us to return unsuccessful asylum seekers. We were not sending them to Rwanda in any case, so that wasn't an answer, just a waste of money. Neither was it a deterrent as proven by a rise in arrivals. So that problem still remains.
The alternative, which you seem to be more keen on, is to just keep accruing 10s of thousands of 'illegal immigrants' and do nothing about them, breaking our legal commitments and wasting millions of pounds A DAY hosting them. That's not a sensible option for a whole number of reasons in addition to the cost. Again, burying our heads in the sand and doing nothing about problems isn't a good way forward. |  |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:32 - Jul 12 with 1116 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:12 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
I never said claiming asylum was illegal - i said the method they were getting here is illegal ... and once again these people are coming from France .... not a war torm country the last time i checked .... how can you be claiming asylum if you've come from France ??
Hang on everyone let me guess ... next reply
"send me a link where it says France isn't a war torn country"
give me strength ! |
Refugees can legitimately make a claim for asylum in the UK after passing through other “safe” countries such as France.
there are plenty of reasons why asylum seekers would chose the UK over other 'safe' countries. Language, historical connections, family members etc. Also, we used to be known as being avery fair and welcoming. | |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:37 - Jul 12 with 1092 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 10:14 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
ridiculous taking the p1ss out of Reform (or any other party) when in Labours first week in government they've announced they're releasing thousands of criminals out of prison early and tackled illegal migration by just making it legal ........
NOT what i voted for last week ! |
Are you really that ignorant that you don’t understand they are having to solve a problem that is at critical level right now because of decades of underfunding and 14 yrs of corrupt government
Struggling to work out if you are vulnerable to being fed lies from other forums or chat rooms, A liar who voted reform and are now being a reform bot or just a silly parody account trying to wind people up. | | | |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:38 - Jul 12 with 1081 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:23 - Jul 12 by Blueschev |
Refugees are not legally obliged to seek asylum in the first "safe" country in which they arrive, and there are a myriad of reasons why they may choose to come here. We still take far less than many other countries.
How are refugees supposed to arrive "legally", apply at the British embassy in the country from where they are fleeing? Give me strength! [Post edited 12 Jul 2024 11:26]
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And the previous government closed all safe asylum routes so there is no legal means to claim asylum in the UK. | |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:39 - Jul 12 with 1072 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 10:42 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
If it's illegal why are all the people who came here via that method being allowed to apply to stay ?
thats not my idea of how illegal works - that's like robbing a bank and being allowed to keep the money ! |
Stop it now, surely you are on a windup? Nobody can be this stupid surely? | | | |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:47 - Jul 12 with 1043 views | Pencilpete |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:28 - Jul 12 by Swansea_Blue |
I'll do it for you, to save you the hassle (not paywalled for once).
hassle. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/01/labour-in-limbo-asylum-seekers-5
or the Express version, which is just full of unverified claims with no substance. https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1914824/Keir-Starmer-illegal-immigration
So what's actually happening is that instead of us housing people who arrived here illegally indefinitely, at the tax payers expense, it looks like they will now be able to make a claim for asylum. In international law it is a requirement for us to hear claims for asylum (we're signatories to the 1951 Refugee Convention). It's not an issue of whether people think it should be allowed to or not, it's a legal obligation enforceable in the courts.
If their claim is rejected, they won't have any right to stay in the UK. What we do with them then is still a problem, because the Tories took us out of the Dublin Regulation, which which allowed us to return unsuccessful asylum seekers. We were not sending them to Rwanda in any case, so that wasn't an answer, just a waste of money. Neither was it a deterrent as proven by a rise in arrivals. So that problem still remains.
The alternative, which you seem to be more keen on, is to just keep accruing 10s of thousands of 'illegal immigrants' and do nothing about them, breaking our legal commitments and wasting millions of pounds A DAY hosting them. That's not a sensible option for a whole number of reasons in addition to the cost. Again, burying our heads in the sand and doing nothing about problems isn't a good way forward. |
What i'm keen on is getting the number of immigrants (overall ... illegal, legal everything) to a more manageable number.
And just to reiterate (as i said before the election) i'm not a Reform supporter .... i have my own views on pretty much everything and yes there are some issues i agree with Reform on, equally there i some things i agree with Labour on and some things i agree with the Tories on .... my issue with the Tories was even tho i agree with them on some things i couldn't believe a word they said so there was no way i was supporting them, and while yes i agree with Reform that immigration is way too high and out of control, i disagreed with them wanting to stop it altogether because i think SOME immigration is a good thing, people come over they do good jobs, they contribute to the economy etc but we are an island an the levels at the moment are unsustainable IMO
so my choice at the election was voting for reform who want to stop it altogether or vote for Labour and see if they can get it under control (Which ALL the parties acknowledged was an issue) .... so i voted for Labour BUT my view is if they can't get it sorted and we see the numbers coming down then in 5 years i probably will vote for Reform.
What bugs me on here and why i've been vocal about Reform in particular is that everyone just palms then off as some kind of racist, radical nazi style group and i don't think it's true, if they were a racist group why have they just appointed a Muslim as their Party chairman, why have 4.2 million people just voted for them ??? .... you will never get me to believe that there are 4.2 million racists in this country - i just think people on the left have a totally different perception of what is racist and what isn't and yes Reforms ideas (like with immigration) are too extreme for me but sometimes extreme measures are needed when everything else has failed. | | | |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:54 - Jul 12 with 1032 views | Pencilpete |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:39 - Jul 12 by PassionNotAnger |
Stop it now, surely you are on a windup? Nobody can be this stupid surely? |
you need to change your name to 'angernotpassion' cos i'm seeing plenty of anger and not much passion !!
am i a parody or wind up - ask Phil ... been a menber on here for 17 odd years i think
i just have different views to you and that's fine, i think you're wrong for thinking what you think but i respect your opinions ... it doesn't make me right and you wrong and it doesn't make you right and me wrong ... it just makes us have different opinions and people do thats why there are several parties all saying different things and have different views on how things should be done and each of them have millions of voters because there are loads of differing opinions.
i think hurling abuse and calling people stupid and racist and bigoted etc because they disagree with you is awful if i'm honest, if you want a debate or an argument then fine lets have one but lets keep the personal stuff out yeah ? :) | | | |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 12:00 - Jul 12 with 1015 views | Zx1988 |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:47 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
What i'm keen on is getting the number of immigrants (overall ... illegal, legal everything) to a more manageable number.
And just to reiterate (as i said before the election) i'm not a Reform supporter .... i have my own views on pretty much everything and yes there are some issues i agree with Reform on, equally there i some things i agree with Labour on and some things i agree with the Tories on .... my issue with the Tories was even tho i agree with them on some things i couldn't believe a word they said so there was no way i was supporting them, and while yes i agree with Reform that immigration is way too high and out of control, i disagreed with them wanting to stop it altogether because i think SOME immigration is a good thing, people come over they do good jobs, they contribute to the economy etc but we are an island an the levels at the moment are unsustainable IMO
so my choice at the election was voting for reform who want to stop it altogether or vote for Labour and see if they can get it under control (Which ALL the parties acknowledged was an issue) .... so i voted for Labour BUT my view is if they can't get it sorted and we see the numbers coming down then in 5 years i probably will vote for Reform.
What bugs me on here and why i've been vocal about Reform in particular is that everyone just palms then off as some kind of racist, radical nazi style group and i don't think it's true, if they were a racist group why have they just appointed a Muslim as their Party chairman, why have 4.2 million people just voted for them ??? .... you will never get me to believe that there are 4.2 million racists in this country - i just think people on the left have a totally different perception of what is racist and what isn't and yes Reforms ideas (like with immigration) are too extreme for me but sometimes extreme measures are needed when everything else has failed. |
If they're not racist, then why do they attract all sorts of vile fascist/Nazi scumbags into their ranks, and have a CEO/Leader who has never sought to rebut claims of his own racism and anti-semitism? | |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 12:16 - Jul 12 with 983 views | Pencilpete |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 12:00 - Jul 12 by Zx1988 |
If they're not racist, then why do they attract all sorts of vile fascist/Nazi scumbags into their ranks, and have a CEO/Leader who has never sought to rebut claims of his own racism and anti-semitism? |
I'm pretty sure all parties attract unsavoury characters - the greens for example had to stand several down too and Labour openly admit they had a massive anti-semetic issue just a few years ago under Corbyn so yes while Reform do have those issues it's not exclusive to them and i didn't see anyone calling Labour a racist organisation 5 years ago.
I've never seen Farage say anything racist and i have heard him say people with those opinions are not welcome in his party and never will be. Which again, is more than Corbyn said !! | | | |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 12:16 - Jul 12 with 980 views | FBI |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:10 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
That's what politicians do tho isn't it ? they just change names of things and rebrand etc and hope people .... like some on here .... swallow it
I'm not going to "Post a link where it says they're making illegal immigration legal" you just arn't listening and don't want to listen .... just cos that isn't what it says word for word ... that doesn't mean that's what's happening.
go online and look up the definition of illegal ..... if you're going to be allowed to apply to stay having come 'illegally' then it isn't fcuking illegal is it ? Like i said it's like robbing a bank and being allowed to keep the money.
whether you think it should be allowed or not allowed etc is a different argument but for this argument they've literally 'solved' the issue of illegal immigration by effectively making it legal and it's just going to encourage more people to get in these small boats and try their luck doing a dangerous journey across the channel because they know they'll have a chance of staying |
"That's what politicians do tho isn't it ? they just change names of things and rebrand etc and hope people .... like some on here .... swallow it"
...BUF, BM, NF, BNP, UKIP, BP, RUK... |  |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 12:23 - Jul 12 with 955 views | Pencilpete |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 12:16 - Jul 12 by FBI |
"That's what politicians do tho isn't it ? they just change names of things and rebrand etc and hope people .... like some on here .... swallow it"
...BUF, BM, NF, BNP, UKIP, BP, RUK... |
reform was the Brexit Party but thats all they've been rebranded as
UKIP was Farage's Old party but they still exist so not the same and BNP was something very unsavoury and a completely different party as were some of the others you've mentioned ....
so don't agree with what you're suggesting there i'm afraid | | | |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 13:13 - Jul 12 with 827 views | Pencilpete |
The problem with ANYTHING is that there are always idiots who will take things to extremes - even us as town fans will chant "we hate N*rwich" there will always be some b3llend who will go and beat up N*rwich fans because of it.
Another good example is with stop and search ... that started in the aftermath of the 7/7 attacks in London but then it was said to be racist because the police were only searching Muslims .... well at the time it was only muslims who had been carrying bombs ... so that's not racist that's just looking where you're more likely to find something ... if it had been white males from Cambridge who has carried out the attacks i'd equally expect the police to be in Cambridge searching all the white males .... But as with everything (as i was saying) you get idiots who would go and attack Muslims because in their tiny heads "all muslims are terrorists" Which is also obviously not true.
So we as society push ourselves into a corner because you've got people on one side saying "you can't just search muslims thats racist" and because then the police then convince themselves that they're racists they don't do it and then that gives the idiots more ammunition to take matters into their own hands.
thats what i was saying in an earlier post we really need to re-evaluate what is racist and what isn't and whts anti-semetic and what isn't and whats sexist and what isn't ETC because making racists and sexists out of people who arn't at all pushes extremists | | | |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 13:18 - Jul 12 with 811 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 11:54 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
you need to change your name to 'angernotpassion' cos i'm seeing plenty of anger and not much passion !!
am i a parody or wind up - ask Phil ... been a menber on here for 17 odd years i think
i just have different views to you and that's fine, i think you're wrong for thinking what you think but i respect your opinions ... it doesn't make me right and you wrong and it doesn't make you right and me wrong ... it just makes us have different opinions and people do thats why there are several parties all saying different things and have different views on how things should be done and each of them have millions of voters because there are loads of differing opinions.
i think hurling abuse and calling people stupid and racist and bigoted etc because they disagree with you is awful if i'm honest, if you want a debate or an argument then fine lets have one but lets keep the personal stuff out yeah ? :) |
You haven't just offered an opinion though. You've stated that illegal immigration has now been made legal to cut the numbers down, as if it's fact. It's not, it's clearly nonsense. And people who show that to you, you claim have swallowed lies.
These are more than just opinions, and they're not anything we should respect.
It's spreading falsehoods, either through ignorance or by design. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 13:18 - Jul 12 with 809 views | BlueBadger |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 13:13 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
The problem with ANYTHING is that there are always idiots who will take things to extremes - even us as town fans will chant "we hate N*rwich" there will always be some b3llend who will go and beat up N*rwich fans because of it.
Another good example is with stop and search ... that started in the aftermath of the 7/7 attacks in London but then it was said to be racist because the police were only searching Muslims .... well at the time it was only muslims who had been carrying bombs ... so that's not racist that's just looking where you're more likely to find something ... if it had been white males from Cambridge who has carried out the attacks i'd equally expect the police to be in Cambridge searching all the white males .... But as with everything (as i was saying) you get idiots who would go and attack Muslims because in their tiny heads "all muslims are terrorists" Which is also obviously not true.
So we as society push ourselves into a corner because you've got people on one side saying "you can't just search muslims thats racist" and because then the police then convince themselves that they're racists they don't do it and then that gives the idiots more ammunition to take matters into their own hands.
thats what i was saying in an earlier post we really need to re-evaluate what is racist and what isn't and whts anti-semetic and what isn't and whats sexist and what isn't ETC because making racists and sexists out of people who arn't at all pushes extremists |
Or you know, we could make demonising entire communities and sections of the populace unacceptable again. |  |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 13:30 - Jul 12 with 748 views | Pencilpete |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 13:18 - Jul 12 by BlueBadger |
Or you know, we could make demonising entire communities and sections of the populace unacceptable again. |
Not at all - people want to fit into society and the best way for them to do that is to be treated equally - if the police are looking for black person with a knife then search black people because it matches the description of the suspect you don't search an equal number of white people so you can't be accused of racism - equally if theres a white person with a knife then search white people - thats just policing and we need to stop making a racism issue out of it.
during my time as an office manager I hired a gay man and 2 black women (one of which was an immigrant) .... when interviewing i picked what i thought were the best people for the job but i can guarantee you had i employed 3 straight, white men i'd have been labelled racist, homophobic ETC even though i'd have followed the same principals of hiring the best person and thats what we have to get away from
of course theres racism and homophobia and the other horrible views that people hold and of course we have to stamp it out but we also have to stop jumping on every little thing and interpreting it as that when it isn't. | | | |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 14:00 - Jul 12 with 699 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 12:16 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
I'm pretty sure all parties attract unsavoury characters - the greens for example had to stand several down too and Labour openly admit they had a massive anti-semetic issue just a few years ago under Corbyn so yes while Reform do have those issues it's not exclusive to them and i didn't see anyone calling Labour a racist organisation 5 years ago.
I've never seen Farage say anything racist and i have heard him say people with those opinions are not welcome in his party and never will be. Which again, is more than Corbyn said !! |
Here's a question, what actually do you think a racist person is, what behaviour do you think they would exhibit? |  |
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| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 14:22 - Jul 12 with 664 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Nige handing out the big jobs... on 13:13 - Jul 12 by Pencilpete |
The problem with ANYTHING is that there are always idiots who will take things to extremes - even us as town fans will chant "we hate N*rwich" there will always be some b3llend who will go and beat up N*rwich fans because of it.
Another good example is with stop and search ... that started in the aftermath of the 7/7 attacks in London but then it was said to be racist because the police were only searching Muslims .... well at the time it was only muslims who had been carrying bombs ... so that's not racist that's just looking where you're more likely to find something ... if it had been white males from Cambridge who has carried out the attacks i'd equally expect the police to be in Cambridge searching all the white males .... But as with everything (as i was saying) you get idiots who would go and attack Muslims because in their tiny heads "all muslims are terrorists" Which is also obviously not true.
So we as society push ourselves into a corner because you've got people on one side saying "you can't just search muslims thats racist" and because then the police then convince themselves that they're racists they don't do it and then that gives the idiots more ammunition to take matters into their own hands.
thats what i was saying in an earlier post we really need to re-evaluate what is racist and what isn't and whts anti-semetic and what isn't and whats sexist and what isn't ETC because making racists and sexists out of people who arn't at all pushes extremists |
Fact check.
Stop and search did NOT start after 7/7. They are powers that have been used for this since PACE 1984 and Terrorism Act 2000. The current legislation was reformed in 2014.
The bombings of 7/7 were in 2005
The claims around racial profiling of the stop and search use started way before 2005 with claims a disproportionate amount of black youths were being targeted as part of crime profiling.
Similar claims may well have been made about profiling and stops of Muslims post 2005 but I have not seen any evidence statically published that proves this.
As your point is factually incorrect your example is not “good” at all. | | | |
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