| Tax Rises are coming!!! 21:59 - Jul 30 with 12148 views | mutters |
Sounds like fun. Based on Labour sticking to its manifesto pledges of no increase in VAT, national insurance, or income tax increases, where will they raise enough cash to plug the "black hole"? |  |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 09:56 - Jul 31 with 1616 views | noggin |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 09:38 - Jul 31 by SitfcB |
You’re racist if you say stop the boats apparently. |
Of course, what you really mean is, stop the tragic and needless deaths of so many poor people. |  |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 09:58 - Jul 31 with 1626 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 09:47 - Jul 31 by blueasfook |
The cost of illegal immigration is £1.3billion per year. So yes there's a money saving to be made there if Labour can "stop the boats". I am yet to see their policy on this so can't comment further. |
Taking this figure at face value, around 0.15% of the 23/24 tax collected. All our ills solved by stopping the boats. |  |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:08 - Jul 31 with 1577 views | DanTheMan |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 09:52 - Jul 31 by NedPlimpton |
What do you mean by the 'cost of illegal immigration'? What's your source for this number?
Is this the cost already of attempting to stop it, because then surely that figure will rise if we were to do more to stop it?
A bit more meat on the bone is needed please |
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2022/09/28/its-costing-you-billions
It seems to come from Migration Watch research. Make of that what you will. |  |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:10 - Jul 31 with 1567 views | blueasfook |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 09:58 - Jul 31 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
Taking this figure at face value, around 0.15% of the 23/24 tax collected. All our ills solved by stopping the boats. |
It's roughly the same saving as taking away the winter fuel payment from pensioners. [Post edited 31 Jul 2024 10:21]
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:17 - Jul 31 with 1533 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 09:11 - Jul 31 by chicoazul |
We pay for them already and don’t get them. Why will it be any different now. People never learn. |
No. We don’t ’pay for them already’ we pay toward them, (big difference), and we don’t pay nearly enough so money has to be shaved off elsewhere to cover the bear minimums.
Shaved off places like road repairs, mental health provision, community activities, roadside weed removal and maintenance etc etc etc.
We don’t pay enough collectively, our tax revenue is significantly shorter than our outgoings, including interest payments on the national debt. |  |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:25 - Jul 31 with 1518 views | NedPlimpton |
So this says the cost of the asylum system is £1.5b annually
Are you suggesting we stop having an asylum system? I'm not really sure what people's points are with regards to this |  | | |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:28 - Jul 31 with 1469 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 07:33 - Jul 31 by Rimsy |
Services are not going to improve by throwing more money at them. Need a fundamental change how they are run. Cutting down on waste and pointless middle management for a start. |
We aren’t ’throwing money at them’. Such statements are on page one of the Tory handbook.
We aren’t putting nearly enough money into them to function on a basic level.
Think of it like this, inflation ran at 10% roughly all of last year. This year it’s at about 3% (roughly).
This doesn’t mean you’ve got 7% back in your pocket, (although multiple Tory’s thought us thick enough to fall for that), it means, compared to 2022 you are paying around 12% more for products and services than you were, everyone is, you, your neighbour, your library, the local shop, your bin men and your council.
Have you seen budgets for all public services increased by 12%? No, quite the opposite, we’ve had two NI cuts and a promise to cut the welfare bill, because when the country is skint, it’s the Tory ethos to repeatedly blame those with the absolute least, the migrants, the long term sick, the unemployed, the mothers of more than two children.
/endrant | |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:33 - Jul 31 with 1446 views | blueasfook |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:25 - Jul 31 by NedPlimpton |
So this says the cost of the asylum system is £1.5b annually
Are you suggesting we stop having an asylum system? I'm not really sure what people's points are with regards to this |
You need to ask Labour for "meat on the bones". it was point 3 in their election manifesto to "stop the boats".
3 : Launch a New Border Security Command
with hundreds of new specialist investigators and use
counter-terror powers to smash the criminal boat gangs.
Do report back on your findings. | |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:36 - Jul 31 with 1427 views | NedPlimpton |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:33 - Jul 31 by blueasfook |
You need to ask Labour for "meat on the bones". it was point 3 in their election manifesto to "stop the boats".
3 : Launch a New Border Security Command
with hundreds of new specialist investigators and use
counter-terror powers to smash the criminal boat gangs.
Do report back on your findings. |
I'm not asking about labours intended policies, I'm responding to people who have put figures on here about how much immigration is costing and what their thoughts on it are | | | |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:44 - Jul 31 with 1368 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 09:30 - Jul 31 by DJR |
Another dishonest aspect of Reeves' announcement about raising taxes is that it has been done at the beginning of the summer recess, thus allowing time for it to sink in with no push back in the Commons, and with many of the political programmes and journalists now on their summer break. [Post edited 31 Jul 2024 9:36]
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And while many are watching the olympics, especially those behind retirement age.
You can almost guarantee that come December many will be wondering why they haven’t had their winter fuel payment. |  |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:50 - Jul 31 with 1306 views | chicoazul |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:17 - Jul 31 by Cheltenham_Blue |
No. We don’t ’pay for them already’ we pay toward them, (big difference), and we don’t pay nearly enough so money has to be shaved off elsewhere to cover the bear minimums.
Shaved off places like road repairs, mental health provision, community activities, roadside weed removal and maintenance etc etc etc.
We don’t pay enough collectively, our tax revenue is significantly shorter than our outgoings, including interest payments on the national debt. |
What in earth do you mean “no”? We literally do. The tax burden is the highest it’s been for 70 years. Why does TWTD always want to punish some of the poorest in society with *even more tax* when our political class have proven to us all beyond any reasonable doubt that they are incompetent using our money? |  |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:52 - Jul 31 with 1302 views | PhilTWTD |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 09:04 - Jul 31 by Pinewoodblue |
Saying what people want to hear works fine in the short term. Starmer was willing to say whatever was necessary to win the election.
Telling voters you won’t raise taxes, when you know that you will need to , is just dishonest and Showa a lack of integrity. Personally I would have preferred to see Labour say they didn’t want to raise taxes but they would if it was necessary. This would have cost them votes and if Reform hadn’t split the Tory vote Labour May only have had a slim majority.
Going forward my one fear is that an austerity budget will destroy the prospect of growth. Labours long term plans depend on growth.
It really will be Tory light and not in the best interests of the electorate.
Be bold announce a full review of the tax system and promise if major changes are needed they will be actioned on in the next budget.
Think it was Churchman who mentioned combine Income tax & NI good idea but go further. Substantial increase in tax codes, bring back 10% rate on first £2,000. and add a new banding between the standard & higher rate.
You could link some benefits, like Winter fuel payments, to your tax position. WFA being paid to anyone who doesn’t pay tax at standard rate. |
Didn't Labour merely state that specific taxes - income tax, NI and VAT - wouldn't increase? |  | | |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:58 - Jul 31 with 1264 views | DJR |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:52 - Jul 31 by PhilTWTD |
Didn't Labour merely state that specific taxes - income tax, NI and VAT - wouldn't increase? |
That's not being frank though, given Labour within a month of coming into office are signalling tax rises (and cuts) which were not in the manifesto.
It also indicates that this from the manifesto is misleading to say the least.
"What we lack is a government that can match the ambition working people have for their family and community, with a credible long-term plan.
This manifesto is that plan.
Fully costed, fully funded – built on a rock of fiscal responsibility." [Post edited 31 Jul 2024 11:07]
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:05 - Jul 31 with 1225 views | blueasfook |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:36 - Jul 31 by NedPlimpton |
I'm not asking about labours intended policies, I'm responding to people who have put figures on here about how much immigration is costing and what their thoughts on it are |
Figures are from the home office site. Go ask them. Not sure why you're looking for a debate on a football message board about it. | |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:12 - Jul 31 with 1171 views | NedPlimpton |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:05 - Jul 31 by blueasfook |
Figures are from the home office site. Go ask them. Not sure why you're looking for a debate on a football message board about it. |
Why can't I ask you for your opinion on something that you posted?
I didn't reply to you saying "this is a football message board" did I?
You said immigration costs xx. So what is your take on that? Or don't you have one? | | | |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:14 - Jul 31 with 1153 views | blueasfook |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:12 - Jul 31 by NedPlimpton |
Why can't I ask you for your opinion on something that you posted?
I didn't reply to you saying "this is a football message board" did I?
You said immigration costs xx. So what is your take on that? Or don't you have one? |
My take is if costs can be cut, then it's a good thing. | |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:23 - Jul 31 with 1106 views | baxterbasics |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 22:25 - Jul 30 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Good! National Insurance should never have been cut. |
No, it should be abolished. |  |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:25 - Jul 31 with 1110 views | PhilTWTD |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 10:58 - Jul 31 by DJR |
That's not being frank though, given Labour within a month of coming into office are signalling tax rises (and cuts) which were not in the manifesto.
It also indicates that this from the manifesto is misleading to say the least.
"What we lack is a government that can match the ambition working people have for their family and community, with a credible long-term plan.
This manifesto is that plan.
Fully costed, fully funded – built on a rock of fiscal responsibility." [Post edited 31 Jul 2024 11:07]
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But Labour would argue that things were costed on the basis of the false projections of the previous government. | | | |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:25 - Jul 31 with 1101 views | Europablue |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 22:42 - Jul 30 by Freddies_Ears |
Who has it? The Tory donors who benefited by £37bn from the utterly useless test / track / trace. And from the £10bns of dodgy, unusable PPE. |
At the time everyone bought into the Covid panic, so that stuff however performative and useless was addressing the demands from the public to do something because they were scared. All government will find ways to waste money, they just do it in slightly different ways. It's why we vote in the other group from time to time. |  | | |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:35 - Jul 31 with 1063 views | Europablue |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 00:50 - Jul 31 by Mercian |
My mum is a good example of wanting more and paying less. She is a well off younger pensioner in her late 60s with her own nice home and plentiful savings. She wants public services to increase and the local and county councils to repair roads quicker and stop closing libraries which she and an increasing number of people never use. On the other side of the coin she blasted the government when they announced the scrapping of fuel allowance for wealthier pensioners and believes her council tax should come down. She also believes young adults have never had it so easy where the opposite is true. She is really switched on when it comes to micro-economics but she does not understand macro-economics well at all. I find that hard to fathom. [Post edited 31 Jul 2024 1:27]
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I think the older generation look at how hard they worked and feel like they were rewarded for their hard work, but they were fortunate to live at a time when hard work was rewarded.
Young people do seem to be more selfish and more work shy, but that is a product of them having nothing to aspire to. Whenever someone complains about the younger generations they don't stop to think who brought up that generation and allowed them to be how they are. | | | |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:42 - Jul 31 with 1039 views | DJR |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:25 - Jul 31 by PhilTWTD |
But Labour would argue that things were costed on the basis of the false projections of the previous government. |
I'm sure they will for political reasons, but the IFS before the election stated that both parties were ignoring the difficult decisions that would have to be made after the election.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckkkk90lw50o
Whoever wins the election in less than a fortnight faces a "trilemma", said the IFS.
"Raise taxes by more than they have told us in their manifesto. Or implement cuts to some areas of spending. Or borrow more and be content for debt to rise for longer," it said.
"What will they choose? The manifestos have left us guessing." [Post edited 31 Jul 2024 11:49]
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:44 - Jul 31 with 1012 views | textbackup |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 08:46 - Jul 31 by NedPlimpton |
Think about what you've just said, and this is the exact problem with populist politics
Is very easy to see that money is spent on housing migrants and therefore if we stop doing we'll be better off
So...
If you're saying we stop housing migrants, Where do they go? Will they just roam the streets? If so that will need an increase in policing. So who pays for that?
If you're saying we stop the boats, how? Who pays for this?
If you're saying that we speed up the application process so that we don't have to house migrants privately, then that's great but we need more staff to do the processing
Other considerations include our ageing population and growing pension commitments, lack of low-skilled workforce legal and humanitarian obligations etc etc
So please do explain what you are actually saying and how it will save money |
I think I asked the question IF it would save money.
You clearly have a different view, and don’t believe it would.
That’s cool |  |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:48 - Jul 31 with 982 views | textbackup |
| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 09:43 - Jul 31 by NedPlimpton |
No one has mentioned anything about race in this thread
If you can provide a reasoned argument as to why stopping the boats will save money then go for it
But don't start pretending you're the victim |
Aren’t we all victims (financially) if we have to pay for those arriving here? | |
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| Tax Rises are coming!!! on 11:57 - Jul 31 with 953 views | OldFart71 |
The reason for this Country's financial situation is simple. Profligacy on behalf of Government departments and local council. Waste on a massive scale where no one is held accountable for throwing money around like it's gone out of fashion. If I had wasted money like the people running this Country I'd have been bankrupt years ago. there probably isn't a day when I don't spend at least half an hour looking at up and coming expenses and what I have to cover them. Having had first hand experience of seeing the waste that goes on. Thousands written off due to things going missing. That's without taking into account the horlicks that the Tories made with PPE, Track and Trace and the Furlough scheme. Projects such as HS2 where houses and land were purchased and then abandoned, where platforms were scrapped costing 50 million. The banking crisis where some banks were bailed out because they bought toxic loans fro the US so we had years of austerity under Osborne. Now we are getting bashed by Labour. Never should any party get a complete mandate to run the Country because they then just do what they want. Labour now and the Tories before. If I was 30 years younger i'd consider immigrating. This Country is a mess. Can't control our borders, sold off all our services e.g. telecommunications, water companies and energy suppliers. Armed forces down from 120,000 to 70,000, aircraft carriers that either don't work or we haven't the aircraft to fly off them. A country that has a heritage of creating things. The jet engine, the linear motor, the hovercraft, the tv and telephone, the harrier jump jet ,Concorde. The list goes on. We need to stop anything vital to this Country being sold off and as I say, cut this vast waste and hold people accountable. | | | |
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