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The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 12:14 - Aug 6 by Reus30
I don't think I can bring myself to watch it. Too upsetting to be honest.
But I do find this thread fascinating. If it's grey as being noted, would the jury not be an issue here as well? I'm not saying consciously but it must be extremely difficult in a circumstance such as this to be unbiased and just take on the evidence?
But also, it was a lot of babies over a period of time and the diary stuff.
I pondered about the jury myself. Ignoring any potential biases, and potential for 'closing ranks', would a jury of medical professionals perhaps interpret the evidence differently to a jury comprising twelve lay-people?
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 11:51 - Aug 6 by blueasfook
Those points you mention seem tenuous at best. I think I'll stick to the evidence used in the case that the jury heard and consequently found her guilty based on, thanks.
But it's the evidence that they made the decision upon which is being called into question, including the apparently damning spreadsheet re her presence when babies died or almost died. How incredibly neatly that made things appear surprised me at the time given my social science background - things are never that neat - and it does appear that there was some cherry-picking with the data; that there were situations with other babies who weren't included in the stats. As one expert has said, all the spreadsheet showed was when Lucy Letby was working, nothing more than that.
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The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 12:39 - Aug 6 with 2188 views
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 11:51 - Aug 6 by blueasfook
Those points you mention seem tenuous at best. I think I'll stick to the evidence used in the case that the jury heard and consequently found her guilty based on, thanks.
I have no idea how non-medical, lay people could understand and retain such complicated medical details etc. Especially given, how long the trial went on for.
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The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 12:41 - Aug 6 with 2173 views
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 11:51 - Aug 6 by blueasfook
Those points you mention seem tenuous at best. I think I'll stick to the evidence used in the case that the jury heard and consequently found her guilty based on, thanks.
If you'd read the thread, you'd see that key medical evidence for the defence NOT being presented to the jury, accidental omission, is a huge issue.
No need to take my word for it - an experienced QC, paediatricans, journalists have said the same.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:01 - Aug 6 by Nthsuffolkblue
Guthers has provided a possible one. None of us knows what was presented before the jury and why they decided to convict. What we do know is that there have been miscarriages of justice in the past. Whether this is one none of us knows for sure.
.... or maybe this is the reason she was convicted.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 12:39 - Aug 6 by PhilTWTD
But it's the evidence that they made the decision upon which is being called into question, including the apparently damning spreadsheet re her presence when babies died or almost died. How incredibly neatly that made things appear surprised me at the time given my social science background - things are never that neat - and it does appear that there was some cherry-picking with the data; that there were situations with other babies who weren't included in the stats. As one expert has said, all the spreadsheet showed was when Lucy Letby was working, nothing more than that.
The spreadsheet wasn't the only piece of evidence though. There was whole wealth of medicial evidence and other evidence such as the weird notes found in her home that said things like "I KILLED THEM", facebook stalking of the parents of babies who'd died. But the overwhelming evidence of some wrongdoing is the spike in deaths. Way above what could be normally expected and what initially alerted the hospital management that something was wrong. They weren't even quick to suspect Letby. Some other members of staff had suspicions about her and raised with the management team but they were initially dismissed and even made to apologise for the accusations. That elevated number of deaths only occurred while Letby was on staff there, and dropped back to normal as soon as she was suspended. I grant you the evidence against her is mainly circumstancial but I believe she was rightly found guilty.
[Post edited 6 Aug 2024 12:54]
"A+++++", "Great Comms, would recommend", "Thank you, the 12 inch black mamba is just perfect" - Ebay.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 12:53 - Aug 6 by blueasfook
The spreadsheet wasn't the only piece of evidence though. There was whole wealth of medicial evidence and other evidence such as the weird notes found in her home that said things like "I KILLED THEM", facebook stalking of the parents of babies who'd died. But the overwhelming evidence of some wrongdoing is the spike in deaths. Way above what could be normally expected and what initially alerted the hospital management that something was wrong. They weren't even quick to suspect Letby. Some other members of staff had suspicions about her and raised with the management team but they were initially dismissed and even made to apologise for the accusations. That elevated number of deaths only occurred while Letby was on staff there, and dropped back to normal as soon as she was suspended. I grant you the evidence against her is mainly circumstancial but I believe she was rightly found guilty.
[Post edited 6 Aug 2024 12:54]
The drop, as Ryorry has said, followed the hospital no longer taking more severe cases, so was to be expected. Spikes do happen at hospitals for a variety of reasons. The case needs looking at at the very least, I think, as so many experts and people working in the field believe there has been a miscarriage of justice.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 12:53 - Aug 6 by blueasfook
The spreadsheet wasn't the only piece of evidence though. There was whole wealth of medicial evidence and other evidence such as the weird notes found in her home that said things like "I KILLED THEM", facebook stalking of the parents of babies who'd died. But the overwhelming evidence of some wrongdoing is the spike in deaths. Way above what could be normally expected and what initially alerted the hospital management that something was wrong. They weren't even quick to suspect Letby. Some other members of staff had suspicions about her and raised with the management team but they were initially dismissed and even made to apologise for the accusations. That elevated number of deaths only occurred while Letby was on staff there, and dropped back to normal as soon as she was suspended. I grant you the evidence against her is mainly circumstancial but I believe she was rightly found guilty.
[Post edited 6 Aug 2024 12:54]
A psychologist, who no doubt knows more than either of us, said those comments were added after the trial, when in a disturbed frame of mind, and that she'd also written "I am innocent" and "I did nothing wrong".
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 13:39 - Aug 6 by Ryorry
A psychologist, who no doubt knows more than either of us, said those comments were added after the trial, when in a disturbed frame of mind, and that she'd also written "I am innocent" and "I did nothing wrong".
As well as what Phil's just said.
it's interesting for a criminal barrister to write in such strong terms.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 14:01 - Aug 6 with 1848 views
The C5 docu also featurd a Prof who was expert in insulin testing - he said the wrong tests were used in the Letby case - what was used couldn't possibly have proved anything.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 14:01 - Aug 6 by Ryorry
Long, but well worth a read.
The C5 docu also featurd a Prof who was expert in insulin testing - he said the wrong tests were used in the Letby case - what was used couldn't possibly have proved anything.
So where were all these so-called specialists during the trial? The trial lasted over a year yet none of these people came forward to give evidence then.
"A+++++", "Great Comms, would recommend", "Thank you, the 12 inch black mamba is just perfect" - Ebay.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 13:39 - Aug 6 by Ryorry
A psychologist, who no doubt knows more than either of us, said those comments were added after the trial, when in a disturbed frame of mind, and that she'd also written "I am innocent" and "I did nothing wrong".
As well as what Phil's just said.
Wasn't the diary found in her parents house when she was arrested?
Not saying its evidence of her being guilty but I'm sure the comments weren't added after the trial?
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The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 14:41 - Aug 6 with 1714 views
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 14:30 - Aug 6 by _clive_baker_
Wasn't the diary found in her parents house when she was arrested?
Not saying its evidence of her being guilty but I'm sure the comments weren't added after the trial?
I am sure they weren't either - seeing as she was locked up on remand for some time before. They were found in her house when she was initally arrested.
"A+++++", "Great Comms, would recommend", "Thank you, the 12 inch black mamba is just perfect" - Ebay.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 14:19 - Aug 6 by blueasfook
So where were all these so-called specialists during the trial? The trial lasted over a year yet none of these people came forward to give evidence then.
That's not really how it works, is it? You can't just come forward and give evidence. Read this on the criticism of the evidence.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 14:19 - Aug 6 by blueasfook
So where were all these so-called specialists during the trial? The trial lasted over a year yet none of these people came forward to give evidence then.
Why don't you just watch the show.
Another paediatrician on docu explained how her life & career were wrecked by giving evidence 'against the flow' in a different court case. Seeing that, other experts are now incredbly reluctant to come forward - in fact most won't, as I discovered for myself back in the mid-90s, when the anaesthetist who saved my life (diagnosed long-term CO poisoning) refused to go to into court as expert witness against British Gas, for the above reason.
It's a problem that's worse in the UK more than almost anywhere else in the world apparently.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:59 - Aug 6 by blueasfook
You have a better explanation for the spike in deaths then?
You seem to be saying that a thing is so unlikely that it couldn't happen. That is to completely misunderstand mathematical probability.
Spikes and clusters in healthcare are not uncommon. Most will be spikes in illnesses with no fatalities. They can occur for many reasons. Guthers has outlined just some of them. Another is that the spike could simply be unlucky chance.
Until a few years ago the chances of a given National Lottery ticket winning the jackpot were roughly 14,000,000 to 1. Question: How many people could pick the same 6 winning numbers in the same draw? 5?... 20?...
There was one draw in 1995 when 133 people picked the six jackpot-winning numbers. Vanishingly unlikely but it happened.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 11:51 - Aug 6 by blueasfook
Those points you mention seem tenuous at best. I think I'll stick to the evidence used in the case that the jury heard and consequently found her guilty based on, thanks.
i expect you have said the same with the birmingham 6 and guildford 4 at the time.
forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows
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The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 15:54 - Aug 6 with 1522 views
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 14:01 - Aug 6 by Ryorry
Long, but well worth a read.
The C5 docu also featurd a Prof who was expert in insulin testing - he said the wrong tests were used in the Letby case - what was used couldn't possibly have proved anything.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 12:53 - Aug 6 by blueasfook
The spreadsheet wasn't the only piece of evidence though. There was whole wealth of medicial evidence and other evidence such as the weird notes found in her home that said things like "I KILLED THEM", facebook stalking of the parents of babies who'd died. But the overwhelming evidence of some wrongdoing is the spike in deaths. Way above what could be normally expected and what initially alerted the hospital management that something was wrong. They weren't even quick to suspect Letby. Some other members of staff had suspicions about her and raised with the management team but they were initially dismissed and even made to apologise for the accusations. That elevated number of deaths only occurred while Letby was on staff there, and dropped back to normal as soon as she was suspended. I grant you the evidence against her is mainly circumstancial but I believe she was rightly found guilty.
[Post edited 6 Aug 2024 12:54]
Wow!
"I grant you the evidence against her is mainly circumstancial but I believe she was rightly found guilty."
I admire your determination that the justice system never makes a mistake, but that is an alarming statement. I hope you would be excused from jury service if ever called up.
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 12:50 - Aug 6 by Ryorry
Typical Daily Fail.
Point's already been made more than once on thread re how flawed those stats are. Why didn't they also analyse the rotas of docs & other staff?
So why were her fellow medical colleagues so concerned about her anxiety attempted to have her removed from her post? The roster of itself is not an indication of wrongdoing but she was on duty when the deaths took place. She seems to have terribly unlucky both being there and being in a spike of increased infant deaths.
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The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 17:06 - Aug 6 with 1375 views
The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 17:04 - Aug 6 by Eireannach_gorm
So why were her fellow medical colleagues so concerned about her anxiety attempted to have her removed from her post? The roster of itself is not an indication of wrongdoing but she was on duty when the deaths took place. She seems to have terribly unlucky both being there and being in a spike of increased infant deaths.
Just read what's already been said multiple times pls - baffling that you've chosen to ignore that - or perhaps you just don't want to see*.
*And maybe that's part of why miscarriages of justice do happen.
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