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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… 13:17 - Oct 30 with 32399 viewsSitfcB

Cut by 1.7% - one penny off a pint.

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:28 - Nov 1 with 2902 viewsgiant_stow

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:18 - Nov 1 by leitrimblue

To be honest most of my mates/family are the same, just can't leave London. Actually during covid a lot of um seemed to be in a very similar situation to yerself. Living in flats in London with kids. ( most of around your way actually) I was sending um links to farms etc in Leitrim but was just getting abuse back .

One of um supremely told me he couldn't leave London due to the theatre and the night life. F4cker then admitted he hadn't seen the inside of a theatre since we were dragged there to pantos when we were kids over 30 years ago


If you can work from home or have a easily transferable occupation it is well worth thinking about. The quality of life, especially for kids compares very well with London.


I'm not surprised to hear some of your mates with family live round my way. A few years back, it was one of last central-ish, affordable-ish (very ish) places left in London.

Its a tough one, but off to the land of Milk and Honey (Hemsby) this weekend for a small taste of country life. I will think of you in your beautify scenery - not in a creep way (!), but more in a what might be way.

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:29 - Nov 1 with 2900 viewsleitrimblue

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:24 - Nov 1 by DJR

Do you ever say "Get orf my land"?
[Post edited 1 Nov 2024 12:26]


Constantly .
Sometimes myself and a few mates all dress up in our finest red riding gear and chase foxes around the land on donkeys
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:37 - Nov 1 with 2871 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 11:05 - Nov 1 by GlasgowBlue

Nobody has said that people should feel sorry for Jeremy Clarkson.

And you are completely missing the point. Regardless of who Jeremy Clarkson is and why he purchased the farm in the first place, he has used his celebrity status to highlight the [precarious state of British farming today.

Stop playing the man.


And you've missed the point that I was joking about Clarkson as he's a bit of a pantomime villain character.

Hilarious that you're still defending him though.
This saviour of farming who is highlighting the precarious state of it today got into farming as a tax break, to save money for himself not to save the farming industry.

The incredible irony being this loophole has been closed because of people like Clarkson , using farming as a tax dodge. It is very relevant to mention him given he's part of the problem. I'm sure farmers are delighted he's highlighting the problem given he's part of the reason it was caused in the first place!

Frankly I'm astonished you're doubling down on this. You couldn't have backed a worse horse.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:40 - Nov 1 with 2866 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 11:12 - Nov 1 by DJR

For balance, this is what the IFS said about the changes, but if there are genuine family farms affected, I think they should be exempted.

Paul Johnson, Director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), says: "What the budget did was reduce the amount of additional relief that farmers get on agricultural land.

"It still means they'll be significantly more generously treated than the rest of us and still more generously treated actually, than farms used to be in decades past.

"The changes will affect actually a remarkably small number of some of the most valuable farms. The majority will still not be affected by this."
[Post edited 1 Nov 2024 11:20]


Which is what I've been saying all along, but apparently (even though I was only quoting what was on the BBC news) I have zero understanding!

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 14:04 - Nov 1 with 2782 viewsWeWereZombies

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:24 - Nov 1 by DJR

Do you ever say "Get orf my land"?
[Post edited 1 Nov 2024 12:26]


I was chasing sheep off my Scottish acre at eight o'clock this morning. The other day I was chasing sheep in my underpants...how they got in my underpants I will never know.

Boom boom, Mr Derek.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2024 9:54]

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 14:23 - Nov 1 with 2756 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:40 - Nov 1 by The_Flashing_Smile

Which is what I've been saying all along, but apparently (even though I was only quoting what was on the BBC news) I have zero understanding!


Interesting that you've downarrowed me Ryorry, but not actually responded to DJR's comment that I'm agreeing with.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 08:59 - Nov 3 with 2576 viewsDJR

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 11:12 - Nov 1 by DJR

For balance, this is what the IFS said about the changes, but if there are genuine family farms affected, I think they should be exempted.

Paul Johnson, Director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), says: "What the budget did was reduce the amount of additional relief that farmers get on agricultural land.

"It still means they'll be significantly more generously treated than the rest of us and still more generously treated actually, than farms used to be in decades past.

"The changes will affect actually a remarkably small number of some of the most valuable farms. The majority will still not be affected by this."
[Post edited 1 Nov 2024 11:20]


This is the Observer take.

"Estimates vary, but about 30% to 35% of farms in the UK could be valued at more than £1m, which is a new threshold for charging inheritance tax at 20% – half the standard rate – on farm estates. It replaces a regime that excluded farms altogether, allowing the children of farmers to inherit tax-free.

As there are about 209,000 farm holdings in the UK, that means between 62,700 and 73,150 could be affected. However, the tax-free threshold is enhanced by a £325,00 property allowance and can be doubled if the farm owner is married, giving a threshold of £2.65m. Farms are often hugely indebted and carry large bank loans, offsetting the value of the land.

Only 462 inherited farms were valued above £1m in 2021-22, according to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC). And Labour says it will be 500 at most next year, when the new rules apply."

It has to be borne in mind that there has been a huge campaign of disinformation against the Labour Party in the right wing press since it was elected, and this is just one more example.

Indeed, the shocking thing is that the supposed death of a farmer due to the changes that Illinoisblue highlighted on another thread has been repeated in both the Mail and Sun, which is disgraceful.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14031987/farmer-taken-life-labour-inher

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/31462864/farmer-suicide-labour-budget/

It goes to prove something I have known for a long that, namely, that the right wing media in this country is just as Trumpian as Trump himself.

EDIT: it should also be borne in mind that the supposedly impartial media (such as the BBC and Sky) often follow the agenda of the right wing media.

To take an example the politics programme on BBC South East has an item entitled "Is this the end of the family farm?"
[Post edited 3 Nov 2024 10:03]
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 11:08 - Nov 3 with 2509 viewsLeaky

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 08:59 - Nov 3 by DJR

This is the Observer take.

"Estimates vary, but about 30% to 35% of farms in the UK could be valued at more than £1m, which is a new threshold for charging inheritance tax at 20% – half the standard rate – on farm estates. It replaces a regime that excluded farms altogether, allowing the children of farmers to inherit tax-free.

As there are about 209,000 farm holdings in the UK, that means between 62,700 and 73,150 could be affected. However, the tax-free threshold is enhanced by a £325,00 property allowance and can be doubled if the farm owner is married, giving a threshold of £2.65m. Farms are often hugely indebted and carry large bank loans, offsetting the value of the land.

Only 462 inherited farms were valued above £1m in 2021-22, according to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC). And Labour says it will be 500 at most next year, when the new rules apply."

It has to be borne in mind that there has been a huge campaign of disinformation against the Labour Party in the right wing press since it was elected, and this is just one more example.

Indeed, the shocking thing is that the supposed death of a farmer due to the changes that Illinoisblue highlighted on another thread has been repeated in both the Mail and Sun, which is disgraceful.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14031987/farmer-taken-life-labour-inher

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/31462864/farmer-suicide-labour-budget/

It goes to prove something I have known for a long that, namely, that the right wing media in this country is just as Trumpian as Trump himself.

EDIT: it should also be borne in mind that the supposedly impartial media (such as the BBC and Sky) often follow the agenda of the right wing media.

To take an example the politics programme on BBC South East has an item entitled "Is this the end of the family farm?"
[Post edited 3 Nov 2024 10:03]


Talking to a farmer local to , he has converted old barns into holiday let's. They will now be valued according to the local property market over valuing his farm. One point he did make how politicians hadn't taken into consideration what good shots farmer's are
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 11:34 - Nov 3 with 2467 viewsDJR

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 11:08 - Nov 3 by Leaky

Talking to a farmer local to , he has converted old barns into holiday let's. They will now be valued according to the local property market over valuing his farm. One point he did make how politicians hadn't taken into consideration what good shots farmer's are


It is not clear to me that holiday lets qualify for agricultural relief anyway, as they are not being used for agriculture, but I assume they may qualify for business relief.

This from HMRC's guide to agricultural relief.

"You can pass on some agricultural property free of Inheritance Tax, either during your lifetime or as part of your will.

Agricultural property that qualifies for Agricultural Relief is land or pasture that is used to grow crops or to rear animals. It also includes:

growing crops
stud farms for breeding and rearing horses and grazing
trees that are planted and harvested at least every 10 years (short-rotation coppice)
land not currently being farmed under the Habitat Scheme
land not currently being farmed under a crop rotation scheme
the value of milk quota associated with the land
some agricultural shares and securities
farm buildings, farm cottages and farmhouses

Some agricultural property does not qualify for Agricultural Relief, including:

farm equipment and machinery
derelict buildings
harvested crops
livestock
property subject to a binding contract for sale

Farmhouses and cottages
Buildings must be of a nature and size appropriate to the farming activity that is taking place. The property is valued as if it could only be used for agricultural purposes. Any value over and above this ‘agricultural value’, such as the market price of a country residence, does not qualify for Agricultural Relief.

A cottage or farmhouse must be occupied by someone employed in farming or:

a retired farm employee
the spouse or civil partner of a deceased farm employee

They must occupy the property as either a:
tenant under a lease granted as part of their former employment contract
protected tenant with statutory rights

EDIT: no doubt most farmers will have to borrow for things like holiday lets, which will reduce the value of the assets for inheritance tax purposes.
[Post edited 3 Nov 2024 11:56]
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 13:56 - Nov 4 with 2322 viewsDJR

Here's more analysis which shows that the impact of the inheritance tax changes on genuine family farms is likely to be pretty limited.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/nov/01/farmers-shocked-budget-inheritan

Yet tax experts question whether the archetypal “family farm” will truly be affected. Pre-budget analysis by the Centre for the Analysis of Taxation (CenTax) suggested that only 200 estates out of 1,300 a year between 2018 and 2020 claimed more than £1m in relief each year. Those 200 estates – by definition among the wealthiest in Britain – reaped 64% of all the agricultural relief.

The updated relief can in fact be even more generous for true family farms than the £1m headline. A married couple owning a farm together can split it in two, meaning it qualifies for £2m of agricultural property relief, plus another £500,000 for each partner if a property is involved. That means a farm worth £3m might pay zero inheritance tax, said Arun Advani, associate professor of economics at the University of Warwick and a director of CenTax.

Even farms worth £5m might in practice only pay inheritance tax of less than 1% a year, because they will be allowed to spread the cost over 10 years.

Advani said only 44% of the individuals who gained agricultural relief had received any trading income from agriculture at any point in the five years prior to death. It is “not the classic working farmers” who will bear the brunt of the changes, he argued. The change could help cool the rural property market because fewer people will buy a field as inheritance tax dodges, he added – although he did not expect the effect to be substantial.

Instead, it may be the estates of some of the wealthiest people in Britain that are liable for inheritance tax. Those might include vacuum cleaner billionaire James Dyson, who owns 14,600 hectares of British farmland, and Danish fashion investor Anders Holch Povlsen, who reportedly owns more than 89,000 hectares of Scotland. Those estates may now be liable for hundreds of millions of pounds of inheritance tax, where previously they would have paid none. Neither Dyson nor Polvsen responded to requests for comment.

Robert Palmer, executive director of Tax Justice UK, has long campaigned for changes to agricultural relief.

“I can understand why some farmers are nervous,” Palmer said, “but the truth is that the vast majority of APR goes to the wealthiest families, many of which don’t have much to do with farming.

“It’s important to understand the wider context. The country is in a mess and public services need a lot more money.”
[Post edited 4 Nov 2024 14:00]
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 15:25 - Nov 4 with 2249 viewsDJR

Here's more on inheritance tax.

[Post edited 4 Nov 2024 15:27]
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 17:44 - Nov 4 with 2204 viewsRyorry

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 15:25 - Nov 4 by DJR

Here's more on inheritance tax.

[Post edited 4 Nov 2024 15:27]


Haven't got time to go into all this again in depth, but the President of the NFU in an excellent interview on R4's World at One today, pointed out that the Govt. have got the number of family farms which would be impacted by the proposed new IHT, totally wrong - Reeve's figure of 27% (I think it was, happy to be corrected) totally contradicts other Govt. figures! (Defra) that it's actually 66% - of around 70,000 small-medium farms.

There should be absolutely no excuse or let-off for the large corporate farms & obvious scammers to continue getting away with their dodges, I agree.

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 18:20 - Nov 4 with 2180 viewsflykickingbybgunn

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 17:44 - Nov 4 by Ryorry

Haven't got time to go into all this again in depth, but the President of the NFU in an excellent interview on R4's World at One today, pointed out that the Govt. have got the number of family farms which would be impacted by the proposed new IHT, totally wrong - Reeve's figure of 27% (I think it was, happy to be corrected) totally contradicts other Govt. figures! (Defra) that it's actually 66% - of around 70,000 small-medium farms.

There should be absolutely no excuse or let-off for the large corporate farms & obvious scammers to continue getting away with their dodges, I agree.


In both Norfolk and Suffolk the largest owners of farm land are the County Councils. Are they going to have to stump up ? Of course not.

I find it difficult to believe there is not some legal way around it. Put it into a trust or give it away years beforehand. There must be something. To be fair I find politicians and their civil servants are just not that intellegent nor practical enough not to leave a loop hole.
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 18:23 - Nov 4 with 2170 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 18:20 - Nov 4 by flykickingbybgunn

In both Norfolk and Suffolk the largest owners of farm land are the County Councils. Are they going to have to stump up ? Of course not.

I find it difficult to believe there is not some legal way around it. Put it into a trust or give it away years beforehand. There must be something. To be fair I find politicians and their civil servants are just not that intellegent nor practical enough not to leave a loop hole.


Despite year of the Tories trying I don't think the councils have died just yet.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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Price of a pint to rise despite draught tax cut, says Timothy Taylor,s boss on 05:06 - Nov 5 with 2079 viewsZapers

Tim Dewey , chief executive of the landlord brewer, said increases in employers' national insurance contributions and the national living wage cancel out any benefit from a cut to taxes levied on draught drinks.

Richard Clothier, the managing director of Wyke farms, a Somerset dairy producer , said his business was facing an almost £500,000 in added costs per year as a result of the changes, which in turn will result in the price of cheese going up.

"just as we thought inflation was starting to come under control, we see these massive NI increases , which will drive up food inflation because it is a cost that the industry has to bear"

But of course the working man won't be affected by this budget. This will be the tip of the iceberg.
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 10:30 - Nov 5 with 1988 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 17:44 - Nov 4 by Ryorry

Haven't got time to go into all this again in depth, but the President of the NFU in an excellent interview on R4's World at One today, pointed out that the Govt. have got the number of family farms which would be impacted by the proposed new IHT, totally wrong - Reeve's figure of 27% (I think it was, happy to be corrected) totally contradicts other Govt. figures! (Defra) that it's actually 66% - of around 70,000 small-medium farms.

There should be absolutely no excuse or let-off for the large corporate farms & obvious scammers to continue getting away with their dodges, I agree.


You haven't got the time to read the facts (as posted by DJR above) but you've got time to post the views of the totally unbiassed President of the NFU off the radio?

I suggested you read DJR's post above when you have the time. It actually sounds better for most farmers than I was posting earlier in the thread (all of which you disagreed with and downarrowed).

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 20:44 - Nov 7 with 1775 viewsDJR

This (from an article today on the Telegraph app) is about the inheritance tax changes for farms.

"Two people with farmland can pass on up to £3m tax-free

Two people who jointly own a farm will be able to pass on land and property valued up to £3m to a child or grandchild tax free. That is made up of £1m, where they combine their standard £500,000 tax-free allowances (£325,000 for nil-rate band + £175,000 for residence nil-rate band), and on top of that, an additional £1m tax-free allowance each for agricultural property inheritance.

Person 1: £325,000 + £175,000 + £1m

Person 2: £325,000 + £175,000 + £1m

Total passed on to direct descendant tax-free: £3m

This would be £2.65m if leaving to anyone else who is not a direct descendant as they would no longer be able to access the additional property tax-free allowance (£175,000 each).

Government figures"

The £3 million figure is after any outstanding loans, and even then the tax rate above £3 million is only 20%.

In contrast, non-farming couples have only a maximum £1 million exemption, and the tax rate above that is 40%.

It strikes me that this hasn't really been an issue that farmers have had to consider before, so they are probably shocked and unlikely to know fully the ins and outs. But as a farming adviser on Farming Today said earlier today, there are even many steps available to those who exceed the £3 million limit to avoid being caught.

Given all this, I no longer think that family farms should be exempted completely.
[Post edited 8 Nov 2024 7:32]
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 08:37 - Nov 8 with 1661 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 20:44 - Nov 7 by DJR

This (from an article today on the Telegraph app) is about the inheritance tax changes for farms.

"Two people with farmland can pass on up to £3m tax-free

Two people who jointly own a farm will be able to pass on land and property valued up to £3m to a child or grandchild tax free. That is made up of £1m, where they combine their standard £500,000 tax-free allowances (£325,000 for nil-rate band + £175,000 for residence nil-rate band), and on top of that, an additional £1m tax-free allowance each for agricultural property inheritance.

Person 1: £325,000 + £175,000 + £1m

Person 2: £325,000 + £175,000 + £1m

Total passed on to direct descendant tax-free: £3m

This would be £2.65m if leaving to anyone else who is not a direct descendant as they would no longer be able to access the additional property tax-free allowance (£175,000 each).

Government figures"

The £3 million figure is after any outstanding loans, and even then the tax rate above £3 million is only 20%.

In contrast, non-farming couples have only a maximum £1 million exemption, and the tax rate above that is 40%.

It strikes me that this hasn't really been an issue that farmers have had to consider before, so they are probably shocked and unlikely to know fully the ins and outs. But as a farming adviser on Farming Today said earlier today, there are even many steps available to those who exceed the £3 million limit to avoid being caught.

Given all this, I no longer think that family farms should be exempted completely.
[Post edited 8 Nov 2024 7:32]


I suggested Ryorry read your previous post and all I got was no comment and a downarrow.

I reckon she should read this one as well. And I reckon I've another downarrow incoming. Some people prefer what they believe to the facts.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 09:19 - Nov 8 with 1612 viewsDJR

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 08:37 - Nov 8 by The_Flashing_Smile

I suggested Ryorry read your previous post and all I got was no comment and a downarrow.

I reckon she should read this one as well. And I reckon I've another downarrow incoming. Some people prefer what they believe to the facts.


I posted this because it comes from the Telegraph, and means that what I posted earlier couldn't be regarded as biased against farmers.

Also, I am someone who thinks that debates should take place on the facts which these days is rarely the case, especially with the right wing media and its agenda..
[Post edited 8 Nov 2024 9:26]
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 09:27 - Nov 8 with 1590 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:37 - Nov 1 by The_Flashing_Smile

And you've missed the point that I was joking about Clarkson as he's a bit of a pantomime villain character.

Hilarious that you're still defending him though.
This saviour of farming who is highlighting the precarious state of it today got into farming as a tax break, to save money for himself not to save the farming industry.

The incredible irony being this loophole has been closed because of people like Clarkson , using farming as a tax dodge. It is very relevant to mention him given he's part of the problem. I'm sure farmers are delighted he's highlighting the problem given he's part of the reason it was caused in the first place!

Frankly I'm astonished you're doubling down on this. You couldn't have backed a worse horse.


Not sure about that, he could have backed Rommys…

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:25 - Nov 8 with 1518 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 09:19 - Nov 8 by DJR

I posted this because it comes from the Telegraph, and means that what I posted earlier couldn't be regarded as biased against farmers.

Also, I am someone who thinks that debates should take place on the facts which these days is rarely the case, especially with the right wing media and its agenda..
[Post edited 8 Nov 2024 9:26]


Quite.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:27 - Nov 8 with 1517 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 08:37 - Nov 8 by The_Flashing_Smile

I suggested Ryorry read your previous post and all I got was no comment and a downarrow.

I reckon she should read this one as well. And I reckon I've another downarrow incoming. Some people prefer what they believe to the facts.


Oh quelle surprise. My customary downarrow from Ryorry, right on cue... and no response to the evidence.

Brilliant debating Ry. Well played.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 13:20 - Nov 8 with 1467 viewsDJR

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 12:27 - Nov 8 by The_Flashing_Smile

Oh quelle surprise. My customary downarrow from Ryorry, right on cue... and no response to the evidence.

Brilliant debating Ry. Well played.


I don't like to personalise things, and none of my posts on this has been aimed at any particular individual.

It's just the more I looked into it, the more I realised things were not as first seemed the case.
[Post edited 8 Nov 2024 13:21]
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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 13:45 - Nov 8 with 1438 viewsRyorry

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 13:20 - Nov 8 by DJR

I don't like to personalise things, and none of my posts on this has been aimed at any particular individual.

It's just the more I looked into it, the more I realised things were not as first seemed the case.
[Post edited 8 Nov 2024 13:21]


100%.

It would also help if people (not you) read what has *actually been said*, rather than choosing to skim & read only what they want to (I had read what you said as it happens, but as I said in my post of 17.44 on the 4th, "haven't got time to go into all this again in depth" - ie write/elaborate further in that or other posts re the entire very complex subject).

My life is chaotic with my own & dog's serious health issues atm, not to mention a whole heap of other problems, so I don't have time or energy to debate atm, let alone get into futile arguments (I don't mean with you, I know you'll understand).
[Post edited 8 Nov 2024 14:46]

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Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 15:15 - Nov 8 with 1384 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Loudest cheer in the commons is for the cut in draught duty… on 13:45 - Nov 8 by Ryorry

100%.

It would also help if people (not you) read what has *actually been said*, rather than choosing to skim & read only what they want to (I had read what you said as it happens, but as I said in my post of 17.44 on the 4th, "haven't got time to go into all this again in depth" - ie write/elaborate further in that or other posts re the entire very complex subject).

My life is chaotic with my own & dog's serious health issues atm, not to mention a whole heap of other problems, so I don't have time or energy to debate atm, let alone get into futile arguments (I don't mean with you, I know you'll understand).
[Post edited 8 Nov 2024 14:46]


I don't want to have a go at you - but you were the one claiming in this thread that this would hit small farmers and attacked what I posted having seen a different narrative on the news.

DJR has provided excellent reports that back my view up, but you say you're too busy to read them. I appreciate people have busy lives... but since the post you mention (17.44 on the 4th) you've managed to make time for 24 other posts, many of them lengthy.

So you can see why I'd be a little miffed.

It's not the first time you've been accused of this either. It's not a good look to have time to post your views but then not have time to answer the evidence in the responses.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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