| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads 11:30 - Nov 19 with 6521 views | BlueBadger |
Blimey.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2024 11:39]
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 14:44 - Nov 19 with 1381 views | OldFart71 |
Let's not kid ourselves, when we were in Europe the amount of fiddles going on where places that had olive trees were claiming they had far more than they did because of the EU's subsidies. Where the Irish took cattle over the border and back again, then over again so they got more. But we must also remember that these farmers, growers, put food on our tables. Climate, the war in the Ukraine and many other things have added to their costs. Big supermarket chains often pay these farmers less than it costs to produce. Whilst it is acknowledged that people like Clarkson does it more as a hobby than as a profession his last series showed how little money was made from crops and livestock where people who don't have to get up at stupid o-clock to tend for these animals or go to bed late in the evening to gather crops in can earn nearly as much in a year. We live in a farming community and as such I believe that we should back farmers. Maybe not so much the gentleman farmers or the likes of the Duchy of Cornwall who doesn't pay tax and isn't liable for inheritance tax. |  | | |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 14:49 - Nov 19 with 1359 views | Ryorry |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 14:44 - Nov 19 by OldFart71 |
Let's not kid ourselves, when we were in Europe the amount of fiddles going on where places that had olive trees were claiming they had far more than they did because of the EU's subsidies. Where the Irish took cattle over the border and back again, then over again so they got more. But we must also remember that these farmers, growers, put food on our tables. Climate, the war in the Ukraine and many other things have added to their costs. Big supermarket chains often pay these farmers less than it costs to produce. Whilst it is acknowledged that people like Clarkson does it more as a hobby than as a profession his last series showed how little money was made from crops and livestock where people who don't have to get up at stupid o-clock to tend for these animals or go to bed late in the evening to gather crops in can earn nearly as much in a year. We live in a farming community and as such I believe that we should back farmers. Maybe not so much the gentleman farmers or the likes of the Duchy of Cornwall who doesn't pay tax and isn't liable for inheritance tax. |
Well said.
The irony is that the large corporate farms & tax dodgers who I agree should be paying IHT, are the ones who'll be able to dodge it because they have teams of expensive lawyers to find loopholes. It's the smaller, genuine outfits that'll be hit hardest (t'was forever thus). |  |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 14:56 - Nov 19 with 1333 views | bluefunk |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 13:50 - Nov 19 by Zx1988 |
Hopefully not a stupid question, as I know nothing about IHT law, but...
What is stopping farmers from employing the age-old IHT-dodge of just sticking everything in a trust for the benefit of their kids? |
The IHT rules mean that you would be very unlikely to avoid much tax by doing that, as gtransfers into Trusts, with a value over £325k are likely to be regarded as chargeable transfers, thus incurring tax immediately at 20%. It s pretty complicated but that’s the basics of it. |  | | |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 14:58 - Nov 19 with 1319 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 14:43 - Nov 19 by Ryorry |
The only thing that upsets me is injustice, or people getting their facts wrong; or getting/presenting an incomplete/partial version of the facts.
DEFRA, one branch of govt., actually opposes the Cabinet on this. Their figures are entirely different, also a fact.
Which is why I suggested you go and talk with people actually experiencing the reality, rather than getting it second-hand from the media. [Post edited 19 Nov 2024 14:45]
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Are you disputing BBC Verify? Blimey.
Have you got a link to DEFRA opposing it? I haven't seen that.
I am also pretty big on facts. I've read DJR's articles and listened to BBC Verify. I'm not going to live on a farm for a month or talk to farmers, I rather think they'd be biased. You know full well no-one is going to go and live on a farm for a month, which is why you're suggesting it, and is why it's a fallacious argument. You could win any argument with that reasoning (i.e. Go and live on the moon before you tell me it's not made of cheese).
Also, saying my facts are wrong because it's second-hand from the BBC is getting very close to conspiracy theory. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:00 - Nov 19 with 1315 views | Keno |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 14:56 - Nov 19 by bluefunk |
The IHT rules mean that you would be very unlikely to avoid much tax by doing that, as gtransfers into Trusts, with a value over £325k are likely to be regarded as chargeable transfers, thus incurring tax immediately at 20%. It s pretty complicated but that’s the basics of it. |
There is the old defamation wheeze
Father accuses son of shagging sheep
Son sues father for defamation
Father please guilt and agrees put of court for value of estate less IHT threshold
On Fathers death the only value left in estate in the IHT threshold so no IHT payable!!
sorted!! |  |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:00 - Nov 19 with 1309 views | bluefunk |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 13:57 - Nov 19 by The_Flashing_Smile |
There are loads of ways round it if they care to look... and it only affects a small proportion of farms anyway, way less than the farming body are saying. They're just trying to protect their own, which is fair enough - that's their job. |
There are not loads of ways round it. The only way is arranging your death before it becomes law. Edit plus Keno’s definitely not dodgy idea that is. [Post edited 19 Nov 2024 15:03]
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:02 - Nov 19 with 1300 views | bluefunk |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:00 - Nov 19 by Keno |
There is the old defamation wheeze
Father accuses son of shagging sheep
Son sues father for defamation
Father please guilt and agrees put of court for value of estate less IHT threshold
On Fathers death the only value left in estate in the IHT threshold so no IHT payable!!
sorted!! |
I’m trying to think of a reason that isn’t a common way round it…… | | | |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:04 - Nov 19 with 1286 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 14:44 - Nov 19 by OldFart71 |
Let's not kid ourselves, when we were in Europe the amount of fiddles going on where places that had olive trees were claiming they had far more than they did because of the EU's subsidies. Where the Irish took cattle over the border and back again, then over again so they got more. But we must also remember that these farmers, growers, put food on our tables. Climate, the war in the Ukraine and many other things have added to their costs. Big supermarket chains often pay these farmers less than it costs to produce. Whilst it is acknowledged that people like Clarkson does it more as a hobby than as a profession his last series showed how little money was made from crops and livestock where people who don't have to get up at stupid o-clock to tend for these animals or go to bed late in the evening to gather crops in can earn nearly as much in a year. We live in a farming community and as such I believe that we should back farmers. Maybe not so much the gentleman farmers or the likes of the Duchy of Cornwall who doesn't pay tax and isn't liable for inheritance tax. |
"Clarkson does it more as a hobby than as a profession"
Clarkson did it as a tax dodge, which he admitted to at the time.
We should totally back farmers, but this is a totally different issue. This is a tax on the inheritance of a farm worth over £1m, it has nothing to do with climate, the war in the Ukraine and big supermarket chains having an impact on them. These are all things that should be addressed separately and regardless of tax. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:07 - Nov 19 with 1278 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:00 - Nov 19 by bluefunk |
There are not loads of ways round it. The only way is arranging your death before it becomes law. Edit plus Keno’s definitely not dodgy idea that is. [Post edited 19 Nov 2024 15:03]
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I haven't got the time or inclination to look now but someone (possibly DJR) linked an article to show the various ways around this tax for many (not all). | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:16 - Nov 19 with 1225 views | cressi |
Farmers haven't payed Inheritance tax since 1984 about time anybody who has a house or money above 325 grand pay 40% on money above the threshold about time the caught up with the likes of Clarkson and those tax fiddling tory fiddling farmers. | | | |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:27 - Nov 19 with 1194 views | Keno |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:02 - Nov 19 by bluefunk |
I’m trying to think of a reason that isn’t a common way round it…… |
it was a 'solution' offered a standard life technical adviser some years ago to situation where a guy was diagnosed with a terninal illness and the son asked 'how can we reduce the IHT Bill' | |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 16:11 - Nov 19 with 1121 views | stonojnr |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 14:58 - Nov 19 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Are you disputing BBC Verify? Blimey.
Have you got a link to DEFRA opposing it? I haven't seen that.
I am also pretty big on facts. I've read DJR's articles and listened to BBC Verify. I'm not going to live on a farm for a month or talk to farmers, I rather think they'd be biased. You know full well no-one is going to go and live on a farm for a month, which is why you're suggesting it, and is why it's a fallacious argument. You could win any argument with that reasoning (i.e. Go and live on the moon before you tell me it's not made of cheese).
Also, saying my facts are wrong because it's second-hand from the BBC is getting very close to conspiracy theory. |
That the same BBC verify who have had to add a note to their article that they didn't understand the difference between acres and hectares...
Yep with that kind of command of accurate numbers I'm surprised they aren't employed to be the goverment mouthpiece. | | | |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 16:13 - Nov 19 with 1113 views | NthQldITFC |
...and that's only one part of the light salad artillery, and their rocket. Wait 'til the Cress missile lot get going. |  |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 16:17 - Nov 19 with 1101 views | giant_stow |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 16:11 - Nov 19 by stonojnr |
That the same BBC verify who have had to add a note to their article that they didn't understand the difference between acres and hectares...
Yep with that kind of command of accurate numbers I'm surprised they aren't employed to be the goverment mouthpiece. |
So what's up with their basic numbers then? Is that 3m figure for married farmers bollox? |  |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 16:47 - Nov 19 with 1045 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 16:11 - Nov 19 by stonojnr |
That the same BBC verify who have had to add a note to their article that they didn't understand the difference between acres and hectares...
Yep with that kind of command of accurate numbers I'm surprised they aren't employed to be the goverment mouthpiece. |
Have you got a link to that? I very much doubt it says, "We didn't understand the difference between acres and hectares".
EDIT: BTW, I didn't read it in an article, I heard it on the radio this morning... as already stated. [Post edited 19 Nov 2024 16:48]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:42 - Nov 19 with 945 views | redrickstuhaart |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:04 - Nov 19 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"Clarkson does it more as a hobby than as a profession"
Clarkson did it as a tax dodge, which he admitted to at the time.
We should totally back farmers, but this is a totally different issue. This is a tax on the inheritance of a farm worth over £1m, it has nothing to do with climate, the war in the Ukraine and big supermarket chains having an impact on them. These are all things that should be addressed separately and regardless of tax. |
Farm worth £1m, plus personal allowance of £350k, plus marital allowance if its a couple, so the two allowances are combined, reached nearer £3m worth of land, debt free, before you even start to worry about paying.
£5m worth? Tax of £200k. If I inherited a business worth £5m, as an ongoing concern, I would not be desperately troubled at the prospect of a £200k mortgage against the business to be paid over 25 years... Which is how it will be done. | | | |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:49 - Nov 19 with 920 views | Ryorry |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 15:04 - Nov 19 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"Clarkson does it more as a hobby than as a profession"
Clarkson did it as a tax dodge, which he admitted to at the time.
We should totally back farmers, but this is a totally different issue. This is a tax on the inheritance of a farm worth over £1m, it has nothing to do with climate, the war in the Ukraine and big supermarket chains having an impact on them. These are all things that should be addressed separately and regardless of tax. |
"This is a tax on the inheritance of a farm worth over £1m".
Worth over £1m on paper only.
It's the farmland, nominal value about £10K/acre depending on the area, which is obviously an essential business asset to running farms, that will take most farms over the threshold for IHT. 100 acres (small farm) = £1m. No land, no farm.
Having to sell land to pay IHT would make small/medium farms unviable. They're already borderline in their margins.
Many farmers are single, often widowed, not eligible for the married couples' allowance.
As I said above, no other business incurs IHT on their business assets if/when passed on. Farmers are being singled out by a large blunt instrument to punish dodgers like Clarkson. There are much easier, more precise ways of nailing his ilk than the tax. Not sure how that's so hard to understand.
*Edited for grammar.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2024 20:11]
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:54 - Nov 19 with 895 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:42 - Nov 19 by redrickstuhaart |
Farm worth £1m, plus personal allowance of £350k, plus marital allowance if its a couple, so the two allowances are combined, reached nearer £3m worth of land, debt free, before you even start to worry about paying.
£5m worth? Tax of £200k. If I inherited a business worth £5m, as an ongoing concern, I would not be desperately troubled at the prospect of a £200k mortgage against the business to be paid over 25 years... Which is how it will be done. |
Well, quite. The more you delve into the facts the less this seems the bad deal for farmers it's being made out to be by some. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:55 - Nov 19 with 890 views | tcblue |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:49 - Nov 19 by Ryorry |
"This is a tax on the inheritance of a farm worth over £1m".
Worth over £1m on paper only.
It's the farmland, nominal value about £10K/acre depending on the area, which is obviously an essential business asset to running farms, that will take most farms over the threshold for IHT. 100 acres (small farm) = £1m. No land, no farm.
Having to sell land to pay IHT would make small/medium farms unviable. They're already borderline in their margins.
Many farmers are single, often widowed, not eligible for the married couples' allowance.
As I said above, no other business incurs IHT on their business assets if/when passed on. Farmers are being singled out by a large blunt instrument to punish dodgers like Clarkson. There are much easier, more precise ways of nailing his ilk than the tax. Not sure how that's so hard to understand.
*Edited for grammar.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2024 20:11]
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And what are these precise ways?
Surely one of the best outcomes here is less people like Clarkson buying farms for the dodge, therefore farmland becomes less valuable, therefore the IHT threshold becomes irrelevant. | | | |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:57 - Nov 19 with 885 views | giant_stow |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:49 - Nov 19 by Ryorry |
"This is a tax on the inheritance of a farm worth over £1m".
Worth over £1m on paper only.
It's the farmland, nominal value about £10K/acre depending on the area, which is obviously an essential business asset to running farms, that will take most farms over the threshold for IHT. 100 acres (small farm) = £1m. No land, no farm.
Having to sell land to pay IHT would make small/medium farms unviable. They're already borderline in their margins.
Many farmers are single, often widowed, not eligible for the married couples' allowance.
As I said above, no other business incurs IHT on their business assets if/when passed on. Farmers are being singled out by a large blunt instrument to punish dodgers like Clarkson. There are much easier, more precise ways of nailing his ilk than the tax. Not sure how that's so hard to understand.
*Edited for grammar.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2024 20:11]
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Can I ask what the more precise ways of stopping the inheritance tax dodge are please? Saw the national farmers union guy say something similar, so genuine question.... | |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 18:00 - Nov 19 with 858 views | giant_stow |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:55 - Nov 19 by tcblue |
And what are these precise ways?
Surely one of the best outcomes here is less people like Clarkson buying farms for the dodge, therefore farmland becomes less valuable, therefore the IHT threshold becomes irrelevant. |
oops sorry for doubling up | |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 18:04 - Nov 19 with 845 views | Ryorry |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:57 - Nov 19 by giant_stow |
Can I ask what the more precise ways of stopping the inheritance tax dodge are please? Saw the national farmers union guy say something similar, so genuine question.... |
I'm not a legal bod, but my own ideas would be for
1. Covenants being imposed on farmland, in the same way that there are currently legal restrictions of the purchase or rent of some houses in rural areas, in that it can only be bought by those already legitimately working in agriculture, horticulture or forestry.
2. In France, those acquiring farmland are required to go through a process of due diligence to prove their suitability to own & work the land. | |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 18:05 - Nov 19 with 844 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:49 - Nov 19 by Ryorry |
"This is a tax on the inheritance of a farm worth over £1m".
Worth over £1m on paper only.
It's the farmland, nominal value about £10K/acre depending on the area, which is obviously an essential business asset to running farms, that will take most farms over the threshold for IHT. 100 acres (small farm) = £1m. No land, no farm.
Having to sell land to pay IHT would make small/medium farms unviable. They're already borderline in their margins.
Many farmers are single, often widowed, not eligible for the married couples' allowance.
As I said above, no other business incurs IHT on their business assets if/when passed on. Farmers are being singled out by a large blunt instrument to punish dodgers like Clarkson. There are much easier, more precise ways of nailing his ilk than the tax. Not sure how that's so hard to understand.
*Edited for grammar.
[Post edited 19 Nov 2024 20:11]
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See redrick's answer above.
I don't know where you're getting your figures, or if it's just worst case scenario, but it's way more than £1m in reality for most ...and BBC Verify confirmed this morning on the radio that the government's estimate of it only affecting around 500 farms a year is correct.
Maybe other businesses should incur IHT. Maybe it's on farmers because it's also their home. I'm not sure on the workings, but from the figures I've heard (and read on here) it seems pretty fair.
More should be done to help farmers in other ways, I totally agree with that.
But this IHT, by itself, doesn't seem intrinsically unfair to me (as someone who has no skin in this game). When you see someone like Clarkson buying a farm and openly admitting it's because it's a tax dodge then you see straight away that the previous system was wrong/flawed.
Maybe because you live rurally and are close to farmers you're not quite so impartial on the subject. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 18:05 - Nov 19 with 848 views | Mullet |
Jezza having his own bragging spoken to him as he then goes on a Daily Mail rant is poetry.
As for this scumbag…
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| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 18:08 - Nov 19 with 836 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It's all kicking off at the 'we demand Clarkson pays less tax' demo, lads on 17:55 - Nov 19 by tcblue |
And what are these precise ways?
Surely one of the best outcomes here is less people like Clarkson buying farms for the dodge, therefore farmland becomes less valuable, therefore the IHT threshold becomes irrelevant. |
Yep, BBC Verify also mentioned this. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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