| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc 11:34 - Jan 1 with 3452 views | FrimleyBlue |
It's really weird why VAR was brought in to try and make the sport better, yet we still see no action against blatant acts of cheating.
Surely, with the the fact VAR is able to oversee everything that happens in a game, why can't it be used even after the game to have players reprimanded for their actions.
You start giving out 1 game 2 game bans for simulation or faking head injuries, it would stop.
Doing nothing just encourages it as nothing happens in game when it happens. |  |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 11:47 - Jan 1 with 3118 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Also fake head injuries are now being used like tactical fouls.
Players feign head injury to stop a counter attack. Boils my piss!!
Have you just listened to the BM podcast. [Post edited 1 Jan 11:48]
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 11:50 - Jan 1 with 3081 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
Agree, but would prefer it to be in the game, so that the punishment is experienced for the game at hand. Chelsea would have had multiple additional cards on Monday, and either have led to less faking for the remainder of the game, or second offenses leading to a red.
VAR analysis would need to be faster, but they achieve it (reasonably) well in Rugby.
I'd also like refs / assistants / VAR miked up, like in Rugby - total transparency. |  | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 11:52 - Jan 1 with 3051 views | CrayonKing |
Faking head injuries is the big one for me. Should be a straight 3 game ban.
Head injuries are serious and the ref and medical staff should be able to deal with them as such, without having to wonder if somebody's faking it for tactical advantage. |  | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 11:55 - Jan 1 with 3021 views | Guthrum |
Not disagreeing with you at all on the principle, but it will be another subjuctive decision taking time to resolve, which fans/managers are going to moan about if the decision doesn't go their way.
Post match citations won't help where a result has been affected by such behaviour, but the prospect of bans will certainly catch the attention of managers. |  |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:01 - Jan 1 with 2986 views | Bramidan |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 11:52 - Jan 1 by CrayonKing |
Faking head injuries is the big one for me. Should be a straight 3 game ban.
Head injuries are serious and the ref and medical staff should be able to deal with them as such, without having to wonder if somebody's faking it for tactical advantage. |
If a player goes down rolling around he goes off for a minimum of 10 minutes to be treated.
No sub in that 10 minutes.
If it’s a genuine injury player gets treated off the pitch very quickly and comes back on after 10 minutes.
I also can’t see why the ref stops the game when the play is at the other end of the ground.
Let play continue, trainers come on and takes the injured player off for minimum of 10 minutes. | | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:06 - Jan 1 with 2959 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 11:50 - Jan 1 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Agree, but would prefer it to be in the game, so that the punishment is experienced for the game at hand. Chelsea would have had multiple additional cards on Monday, and either have led to less faking for the remainder of the game, or second offenses leading to a red.
VAR analysis would need to be faster, but they achieve it (reasonably) well in Rugby.
I'd also like refs / assistants / VAR miked up, like in Rugby - total transparency. |
I was going to say in game, but then I though you could end up having stoppages on top of stoppages to judge if a foul was a foul, was a head injury a real one etc.
So maybe not in game, but definately after the game, it might not change the game it happened in,but it might improve games in the future for everyone. | |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:14 - Jan 1 with 2923 views | Ftnfwest |
If someone has a ‘head injury’ the game has to stop but then call their bluff by not allowing them back on the pitch for 5 minutes and we’ll see how many injuries there are then. |  | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:17 - Jan 1 with 2880 views | DanTheMan |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:14 - Jan 1 by Ftnfwest |
If someone has a ‘head injury’ the game has to stop but then call their bluff by not allowing them back on the pitch for 5 minutes and we’ll see how many injuries there are then. |
The problem with this, as much as I'd like it to happen, is that it punishes actual head injuries, so players who may otherwise call for treatment for legitimate injuries may not be inclined to do so if it means they are off the pitch for five minutes.
Right now they are prioritising player safety and people are taking advantage. It's a hard issue to solve. I think VAR being able to look at these and work out if they are playacting is fine. |  |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:23 - Jan 1 with 2796 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:06 - Jan 1 by FrimleyBlue |
I was going to say in game, but then I though you could end up having stoppages on top of stoppages to judge if a foul was a foul, was a head injury a real one etc.
So maybe not in game, but definately after the game, it might not change the game it happened in,but it might improve games in the future for everyone. |
Yes, I have the same concern, however, for a claimed head injury the game is already stopped and IMO should immediately lead to a HIA off-field, so the game can continue and VAR look at the incident whilst the HIA is concluded.
For other potential faking (e.g Cucurella reaction to Hutch's studs up attempted tackle), the VAR assessment could be 'looked at' whilst play continued. This one is interesting, since such an assessment could have led to either Hutch being sent off (if the ref had missed contact) or Cucurella being booked for simulation. | | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:28 - Jan 1 with 2770 views | Radlett_blue |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:17 - Jan 1 by DanTheMan |
The problem with this, as much as I'd like it to happen, is that it punishes actual head injuries, so players who may otherwise call for treatment for legitimate injuries may not be inclined to do so if it means they are off the pitch for five minutes.
Right now they are prioritising player safety and people are taking advantage. It's a hard issue to solve. I think VAR being able to look at these and work out if they are playacting is fine. |
playacting is hard to prove & hence referees are wary of penalising it as it simply creates another controversy. However, I don't know why clear simulation isn't punished hard & retrospectively. that might change players' behaviour. Unfortunately, dealing with the fake head injury is near impossible, as if you bring in a rule that the player then must go off for 5 minutes to be assessed, that could make players reluctant to own up to genuine head injuries. When players are determined to cheat, it's hard to legislate it out of the game. |  |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:35 - Jan 1 with 2706 views | TheMover |
I totally agree that players are getting away with faking injuries far too much but making injured players leave the pitch for 10 minutes doesn't sit right.
What happens if a goalkeeper gets clattered and has to leave the pitch for 10 minutes, would it make some managers encourage harder contact?
That said, something needs to change. I would love the referee to be mic'd up as well as being to hear VAR, it would make the game much more transparent. I also would like to see some sort of intermediate penalty, like a short penalty in hockey. This might prevent some of the deliberate fouls when a breakaway is in progress. An attacking team might be 3v2 then after a deliberate foul they get all 11 men behind the ball, in my opinion its not right. | | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:40 - Jan 1 with 2650 views | Basuco |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:14 - Jan 1 by Ftnfwest |
If someone has a ‘head injury’ the game has to stop but then call their bluff by not allowing them back on the pitch for 5 minutes and we’ll see how many injuries there are then. |
I was thinking exactly the same, it is about time the FA had a concussion protocol, a 5 minute check period off the pitch would certainly stop the fake head injuries. |  | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:42 - Jan 1 with 2599 views | Pendejo |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:17 - Jan 1 by DanTheMan |
The problem with this, as much as I'd like it to happen, is that it punishes actual head injuries, so players who may otherwise call for treatment for legitimate injuries may not be inclined to do so if it means they are off the pitch for five minutes.
Right now they are prioritising player safety and people are taking advantage. It's a hard issue to solve. I think VAR being able to look at these and work out if they are playacting is fine. |
If someone has a genuine head injury...
Cuts; would probably take 5 minutes to properly assess, stem blood flow and take remedial action
Concussion; aren't they supposed to be substituted anyway?
The Arsenal player had neither of the above and simply went down because he was beaten in the battle for the ball. |  |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:49 - Jan 1 with 2531 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 12:40 - Jan 1 by Basuco |
I was thinking exactly the same, it is about time the FA had a concussion protocol, a 5 minute check period off the pitch would certainly stop the fake head injuries. |
But then you open the inevitable Pandora’s box of temporary concussion substitutes whilst the player is assessed.
Teams like Chelsea for example will just use it to rest a fatigued player and get a high energy player on for 10 minutes.
Best way is to insist on any player with a head injury be subbed for the remainder of the match, but then players will insist they are OK and that’s potentially dangerous.
Only solution is Frimmers suggestion of retrospective bans. It’s pretty easy to spot when a player has taken a knock to the head and when they haven’t nothing subjective needed. |  |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 13:09 - Jan 1 with 2358 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
A lot of issues in tackling this:
1) It is subjective whether there was an injury or not - do we let the ref decide whether the player was actually injured?
2) if a player is deemed to have been contacted on the head, and suffered some form of injury, then how do you ensure that they are not disadvantaged compared to the perpetrator?
3) a further subjective decision is whether the perpetrator did it deliberately or accidentally - if deliberate then presumably a red card, but if it is deemed accidental should that team still have an advantage (such as the injured player going off the pitch for 5-10 mins)?
Its a minefield which is why nothing has been done so far I guess. But it certainly does need a serious debate. |  |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 13:22 - Jan 1 with 2251 views | bournemouthblue |
For me they need to amend VAR so it can review second yellows and perhaps acts like that
They need to get a grip on the play acting however that needs to be done, not necessarily VAR but it could refuse it
You can be booked for a dive, why not feigning injury? |  |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 13:22 - Jan 1 with 2248 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 13:09 - Jan 1 by LegendofthePhoenix |
A lot of issues in tackling this:
1) It is subjective whether there was an injury or not - do we let the ref decide whether the player was actually injured?
2) if a player is deemed to have been contacted on the head, and suffered some form of injury, then how do you ensure that they are not disadvantaged compared to the perpetrator?
3) a further subjective decision is whether the perpetrator did it deliberately or accidentally - if deliberate then presumably a red card, but if it is deemed accidental should that team still have an advantage (such as the injured player going off the pitch for 5-10 mins)?
Its a minefield which is why nothing has been done so far I guess. But it certainly does need a serious debate. |
I'd recommend reading the Rugby Union HIA protocols. These are more that football probably needs, but provide a basis to begin.
Also RU has doctors / medically qualified people on hand for an objective assessment.
So it would certainly be possible to come up with a protocol for football that protects the players and identifies genuine head injuries whilst minimising interruption to the game. As always there just needs to be a will to do it, rather than saying 'it's a bit difficult to manage' and then not trying to find a solution. | | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 13:38 - Jan 1 with 2152 views | Sharkey |
I've said it before, I think it's disappointing that the PFA never speaks out on this, (or on anything really to do with the good of the game.) The FA brought in a rule to protect the welfare of players (head injuries CAN be dangerous and should automatically be checked, as they are in cricket), and within a few months those same players were using the law to benefit their teams' 'game management'. The PFA never criticises players for this abuse. It's as if the PFA doesn't care about the product their players sell and which provides the players' living. As you go down the leagues, there is obviously less action that is compelling or thrilling, and at the same time the players are just as willing to buy into this cheating, presumably because their managers say so. The poor refs are left looking stupid, the players look like cheats in a way that they seldom do in any other sport, and the disingenuous way managers talk of 'game management' is never called out by interviewers. Fans shrug and say 'everyone else does it, so we should too'. The whole thing is shabby, and it's not the FA´s fault. |  | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 13:42 - Jan 1 with 2129 views | Pilgrimblue |
I like the 5 minute rule. If it’s genuine then the player should be assessed and subject to check up he can be let back on if ok. If it’s not then maybe it’ll discourage players and managers will be unhappy losing a player who’s cheating.
Its harsh on the team to lose player for 5 mins but if it is real then surely its best for the player to get proper attention. Could go down rugby route and allow temporary sub but not sure!
Plus I’d like to stop the clock for all injuries and make sure there’s no delay making substitutions so we all know when the game should finish. It’s left to ref when to blow depending what’s going on. That can’t be right. |  | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 13:52 - Jan 1 with 2091 views | Churchman |
Every game is filmed from multiple angles. If Cheaturella had known he was facing a 6 game ban and a months wages to charity, would he have attempted to get Hutchinson sent off the other day? Of course not.
Do that for every incident and the bloke would be sitting in the stands until doomsday. But he wouldn’t do it with a penalty like that so there is the solution.
Obviously, anything marginal then the player gets the benefit of the doubt. No problem. But there are so many incidents of imaginary red card waving, players rolling about holding their heads, taking a dive, feigning injury when the nearest the opponent got was the next county.
There is a choice. Let the game become a Harlem Globetrotters farce with a predetermined outcome (as the big six would like), or stamp cheating out. It’s easy to do. Just make the punishment punitive.
Back in the day of Sunday football, you virtual had to murder an opponent to get booked, but you knew where the limit was because nobody could afford the fine. Simple human nature.
Creatures like Cucurella will only push the boundaries because they know they can. |  | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 15:06 - Jan 1 with 1876 views | stonojnr |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 13:22 - Jan 1 by SuffolkPunchFC |
I'd recommend reading the Rugby Union HIA protocols. These are more that football probably needs, but provide a basis to begin.
Also RU has doctors / medically qualified people on hand for an objective assessment.
So it would certainly be possible to come up with a protocol for football that protects the players and identifies genuine head injuries whilst minimising interruption to the game. As always there just needs to be a will to do it, rather than saying 'it's a bit difficult to manage' and then not trying to find a solution. |
yeah but lets not forget the Harlequins bloodgate doctor, just because theyre qualified medically, doesnt mean theyre not beyond gaining their team advantages.
I mean the officials on the pitch should be smart enough to work it out, its not like Cucurella isnt known for falling theatrically to the ground, and for the life of me I cant work out why the linesman even flagged for it.
you need refs again like Anthony Taylor, Man Utd started off doing it, he didnt give them any leeway on it, they stopped doing it, probably because Amorin is smart enough to
where Brooks was getting it wrong Monday night, though he wasnt dishing cards out because of it, was theyd go down feigning a head injury, and he'd play on for another 30-45 seconds in some cases, and only then decide its a head injury that needs dealing with.
well either its a head injury that needs treatment instantly so the game has to stop instantly, or its not and we just carry on with the game. | | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 16:19 - Jan 1 with 1714 views | Radlett_blue |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 13:22 - Jan 1 by bournemouthblue |
For me they need to amend VAR so it can review second yellows and perhaps acts like that
They need to get a grip on the play acting however that needs to be done, not necessarily VAR but it could refuse it
You can be booked for a dive, why not feigning injury? |
We went down this road years ago. In 1992, the FA found Gordon Durie of Spurs guilty of feigning injury in a match against Coventry. Durie had collapsed after minimal contact with Coventry defender Andy Pearce. He was booked by referee Dermot Gallagher, who also reported him for misconduct i.e. feigning injury. He was banned for 3 matches. The ever compliant Gordon Taylor supported him to the hilt in his appeal. . Durie won his appeal, on the grounds that contact HAD taken place (however minimal) & the referee could not be in a position to judge whether Durie was actually injured. | |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 16:45 - Jan 1 with 1645 views | algy |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 13:52 - Jan 1 by Churchman |
Every game is filmed from multiple angles. If Cheaturella had known he was facing a 6 game ban and a months wages to charity, would he have attempted to get Hutchinson sent off the other day? Of course not.
Do that for every incident and the bloke would be sitting in the stands until doomsday. But he wouldn’t do it with a penalty like that so there is the solution.
Obviously, anything marginal then the player gets the benefit of the doubt. No problem. But there are so many incidents of imaginary red card waving, players rolling about holding their heads, taking a dive, feigning injury when the nearest the opponent got was the next county.
There is a choice. Let the game become a Harlem Globetrotters farce with a predetermined outcome (as the big six would like), or stamp cheating out. It’s easy to do. Just make the punishment punitive.
Back in the day of Sunday football, you virtual had to murder an opponent to get booked, but you knew where the limit was because nobody could afford the fine. Simple human nature.
Creatures like Cucurella will only push the boundaries because they know they can. |
There's always been cheating, attempts to deceive, dishonesty, from simply claiming throw ins when they know they touched it last to the cry wolf feigning a head injury at the extreme in the game but IMO, dishonesty has become endemic, probably coached and admired by the pros. As I heard someone say when a ref was being loudly called a cheat, the officials have to deal with 22 potential cheats on the pitch at a time.
With all the camera evidence available now all 10 PL games each week should be comprehensively reviewed for evidence of cheating and dishonesty, evidence published, culprits named and shamed and disciplinary action taken. | |
| I was there when McKenna's ITFC won in the Premier League at Home. Our only home win in a year. |
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| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 17:05 - Jan 1 with 1584 views | hadleighboyblue |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 11:52 - Jan 1 by CrayonKing |
Faking head injuries is the big one for me. Should be a straight 3 game ban.
Head injuries are serious and the ref and medical staff should be able to deal with them as such, without having to wonder if somebody's faking it for tactical advantage. |
Anyone claiming a head injury and getting the game stopped , gives enough time for VAR to check it .
The player should have to leave the pitch to be fully assessed - it works in rugby | | | |
| Faking head injuries, the cuca jump dive etc on 17:11 - Jan 1 with 1541 views | Tractor_Boy333 |
You had the incident with Cucurella, Odegard at Arsenal and there was another in the wolves game where the centre back went down hold holding his head after the contact was actually in his stomach. Funnily enough think they all involved Hutchinson.
Clearly no contact and they should be punished retrospectively. Strange though none of the commentators ever call it out. In fact I think in the Arsenal game the pundit said there had been contact after it being shown on replay as none.
Chelsea did it lots in though. It was very frustrating but didn’t do them any good in the end. | | | |
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