| JP is a bad move 07:41 - Jan 15 with 13184 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
Said it in the summer, the whole situation does not sit well with me.
Seems like a lot of disruption which we could well do without in a really important transfer window.
Surprised Ashton has carried on with the agent as well, he was a nightmare in the summer, and that has not changed. Plus Villa replacing him like for like is not making me think he is going to solve all our issues.
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| JP is a bad move on 11:21 - Jan 15 with 2191 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| JP is a bad move on 11:13 - Jan 15 by warky_1970 |
How do you know the agent was/is a nightmare ?
All of this anti agent stuff stems from people’s opinions and frustrations at us being gazumped via a technicality last summer.
The agent is doing his job which is to find his client the best deal possible. It’s not the agents job to make supporters feel all fluffy and comfy inside. He also needs to make a living for himself and to prove himself as a shrewd negotiator and businessman that gets the best for his clients.
What will he will be. If we get him then let’s hope it works out. If we don’t, let’s hope we get someone else/better. |
I think it relates to the agent clowning around in the summer, posting pics of himself outside numerous training grounds. Including being escorted from Barcelonas training ground after turning up uninvited.
Just seems a clown.
The delay may not be down to him though. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 11:25 - Jan 15 with 2135 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| JP is a bad move on 11:20 - Jan 15 by BseaBlue |
I think there are genuine concerns around the fee inflating etc and given that he hasn't done anything at Villa, so understandable people are not sure about it as opposed to a lack of patience.
However, the fact that KM has chased him like we've done with others is enough for me to think we need to see this out and then watch him shine.
One thing to consider is that he was a small fish at Villa whereas if he comes here and gets off to a good start, it won't take long until the fans are behind him. I'm sure he has watched the rise of Delap with envy! |
"The longer it takes, the more time there is for doubts to grow" is what I was replying to. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| JP is a bad move on 11:37 - Jan 15 with 2031 views | pointofblue |
| JP is a bad move on 11:13 - Jan 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
...in the minds of impatient people. |
Human nature. More time passes, more time to question. Like the Football Regulator bill which is seemingly going to be held up in the Lords as clubs have had time to push back against it.
Edit: grammatical error [Post edited 15 Jan 12:19]
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| JP is a bad move on 12:03 - Jan 15 with 1963 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
| JP is a bad move on 10:21 - Jan 15 by tractorboy1978 |
More risky than Delap was after struggling to score many goals in the Championship? Lets trust McKenna's judgement. He has wanted Philogene for 18 months.
He barely played at Villa. They are a Champions League team and a couple of levels above us (sadly). |
I take your point there and that is true regarding Delap, but he did come through the academy at Man City at did break into their first team (not many do). The fee we paid might have been based more on potential, but there was a raw player who had the tools that just needed it to come together. Fortunately, it has come together here.
In that respect, I hope the same will happen will Philogene, but I'm more reserved on this because of what we've seen with Jack Clarke. We could potentially be £35m-£40m down on two players who can't do it here for us and we won't recoup that money if it doesn't work out at this level. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 12:24 - Jan 15 with 1859 views | Swansea_Blue |
Something really weird about the whole thing imo. It didn’t go well in the summer, his agent was literally a public embarrassment after the Barcelona story broke, and now we’re hearing that Villa’s new signing was contingent on our JP deal, but they’ve announced Malen and we’re still waiting (albeit not even 24 hours since Malen was unveiled).
It might be fine, but it seems odd. That’s the problem with no official information but lots of speculation. It’s also slightly annoying that we’re losing time to integrate him into the squad, but it is what it is. That’s assuming he does actually sign of course. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 12:39 - Jan 15 with 1789 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| JP is a bad move on 11:37 - Jan 15 by pointofblue |
Human nature. More time passes, more time to question. Like the Football Regulator bill which is seemingly going to be held up in the Lords as clubs have had time to push back against it.
Edit: grammatical error [Post edited 15 Jan 12:19]
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Problem is, since we've had social media and 24hr rolling news people get word of transfers much earlier. If this had all been going on behind the scenes you'd be none-the-wiser.
And people seem to demand to be in the know all the time now.
Patience. These things take time. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| JP is a bad move on 12:41 - Jan 15 with 1774 views | Swansea_Blue |
| JP is a bad move on 12:39 - Jan 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Problem is, since we've had social media and 24hr rolling news people get word of transfers much earlier. If this had all been going on behind the scenes you'd be none-the-wiser.
And people seem to demand to be in the know all the time now.
Patience. These things take time. |
Is that enough patience? I’ve waited 2 WHOLE minutes since you posted that.
WHERE IS HE??!!!  | |
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| JP is a bad move on 12:42 - Jan 15 with 1769 views | BseaBlue |
| JP is a bad move on 12:24 - Jan 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Something really weird about the whole thing imo. It didn’t go well in the summer, his agent was literally a public embarrassment after the Barcelona story broke, and now we’re hearing that Villa’s new signing was contingent on our JP deal, but they’ve announced Malen and we’re still waiting (albeit not even 24 hours since Malen was unveiled).
It might be fine, but it seems odd. That’s the problem with no official information but lots of speculation. It’s also slightly annoying that we’re losing time to integrate him into the squad, but it is what it is. That’s assuming he does actually sign of course. |
I did wonder whether the time sinceVilla announced Malen has been spent by the club trying to get Philogene registered for Thursday, hence the delayed announcement. Pure guesswork though. |  | | |
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| JP is a bad move on 12:53 - Jan 15 with 1685 views | Illinoisblue |
| JP is a bad move on 11:13 - Jan 15 by warky_1970 |
How do you know the agent was/is a nightmare ?
All of this anti agent stuff stems from people’s opinions and frustrations at us being gazumped via a technicality last summer.
The agent is doing his job which is to find his client the best deal possible. It’s not the agents job to make supporters feel all fluffy and comfy inside. He also needs to make a living for himself and to prove himself as a shrewd negotiator and businessman that gets the best for his clients.
What will he will be. If we get him then let’s hope it works out. If we don’t, let’s hope we get someone else/better. |
He’s an agent. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 14:27 - Jan 15 with 1530 views | Nutkins_Return |
Be keen to know your view following the presser. So basically player sounds 100% for joining. He was keen in the summer as well. Key point is he's sold on the club and keen to join. The difficulty is getting this done with the 5 year deal he signed with Villa. Its a 3 way problem to iron out to the satisfaction of Villa/us/His representative. If we take our blue tinted specs off we have to understand all 3 parties need to make this work. It sounds like all 3 parties want it to work but just coming to agreements on the different elements i.e. like Joe mentioned things like relegation clause/reductions are clearly more of a negotiation now. I imagine we might actually be needed to pay less (and with PSR etc etc it's tight).
Main thing here the player wants to come. I'm sure he just wants it done and get on with playing. This isn't a bad egg situation at all. And also it doesn't sound like just Agent problem. It's 3 entities negotiating to get a result.
As McKenna says it's just a difficult deal to conclude. Reality is it's only been going on a few days. Getting tough deals done in 4-6 days is still good going in reality. | |
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| JP is a bad move on 14:34 - Jan 15 with 1503 views | pointofblue |
| JP is a bad move on 14:27 - Jan 15 by Nutkins_Return |
Be keen to know your view following the presser. So basically player sounds 100% for joining. He was keen in the summer as well. Key point is he's sold on the club and keen to join. The difficulty is getting this done with the 5 year deal he signed with Villa. Its a 3 way problem to iron out to the satisfaction of Villa/us/His representative. If we take our blue tinted specs off we have to understand all 3 parties need to make this work. It sounds like all 3 parties want it to work but just coming to agreements on the different elements i.e. like Joe mentioned things like relegation clause/reductions are clearly more of a negotiation now. I imagine we might actually be needed to pay less (and with PSR etc etc it's tight).
Main thing here the player wants to come. I'm sure he just wants it done and get on with playing. This isn't a bad egg situation at all. And also it doesn't sound like just Agent problem. It's 3 entities negotiating to get a result.
As McKenna says it's just a difficult deal to conclude. Reality is it's only been going on a few days. Getting tough deals done in 4-6 days is still good going in reality. |
Reading the presser, I have every sympathy for Philogene and gutted for us.
Any chance Villa's form collapses and they get relegated? | |
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| JP is a bad move on 14:51 - Jan 15 with 1423 views | itfcjoe |
| JP is a bad move on 14:27 - Jan 15 by Nutkins_Return |
Be keen to know your view following the presser. So basically player sounds 100% for joining. He was keen in the summer as well. Key point is he's sold on the club and keen to join. The difficulty is getting this done with the 5 year deal he signed with Villa. Its a 3 way problem to iron out to the satisfaction of Villa/us/His representative. If we take our blue tinted specs off we have to understand all 3 parties need to make this work. It sounds like all 3 parties want it to work but just coming to agreements on the different elements i.e. like Joe mentioned things like relegation clause/reductions are clearly more of a negotiation now. I imagine we might actually be needed to pay less (and with PSR etc etc it's tight).
Main thing here the player wants to come. I'm sure he just wants it done and get on with playing. This isn't a bad egg situation at all. And also it doesn't sound like just Agent problem. It's 3 entities negotiating to get a result.
As McKenna says it's just a difficult deal to conclude. Reality is it's only been going on a few days. Getting tough deals done in 4-6 days is still good going in reality. |
Feels more of a Villa vs JP issue than us....i.e. they just usurped our deal, took him, he had no say, sacked him off after 1 window and now don't want to take any financial hit and want him and us to suck it up between us |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 14:55 - Jan 15 with 1394 views | BiGDonnie |
| JP is a bad move on 14:51 - Jan 15 by itfcjoe |
Feels more of a Villa vs JP issue than us....i.e. they just usurped our deal, took him, he had no say, sacked him off after 1 window and now don't want to take any financial hit and want him and us to suck it up between us |
Plenty of motivation for him/us when we travel to Villa Park. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 15:42 - Jan 15 with 1301 views | wkj |
The only thing I can say here is that the longer the saga goes on, whoever is to blame, adds more and more pressure on him to perform. He will be under the microscope of every town fan if he comes, and I hope he's ready for that.
There more it goes on, the more it seems like the agent is holding the cards - however, now Aston Villa say they're ready, and KM has said he wants to come - there is only on man in the crosshairs and that is the agent. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 16:05 - Jan 15 with 1251 views | Smoresy |
I'd prefer Malen obviously and that feeds into the sense we're paying through the nose, as Philogene's only proven himself at a much lower level so far. The Championship is levels below the PL, Bundesliga, top international footy, but then players of Malen's quality wouldn't come here, no matter if we matched Villa's £21m bid or offered Dortmund £40m.
Does Philogene only need a change of scenery to turn difficult performances into impressive ones? He'll face the same crop of fullbacks who schooled him earlier this season. Cause for optimism: George Hirst and his nightmare before joining.
Hirst is one whom we targeted across multiple windows. So too is Taylor, so too Scarlett. Mixed success really, but you have to want your manager to land his targets.
Something I find weird though is talk of Philogene coming in and Clarke going out. I've said this before. Sure Villa have different aspirations and standards to us, but the opponents they've faced are largely the same. Last season was the same scenario, with Hull boasting more attacking quality than Sunderland. Clarke was running past opponents more easily then and he's doing so now. Time will tell if either or both can truly step up to this level, but I see little reason to have zero confidence in one and full confidence in the other. My hope is Philogene will improve our RW options. | | | |
| JP is a bad move on 16:18 - Jan 15 with 1226 views | Nutkins_Return |
| JP is a bad move on 16:05 - Jan 15 by Smoresy |
I'd prefer Malen obviously and that feeds into the sense we're paying through the nose, as Philogene's only proven himself at a much lower level so far. The Championship is levels below the PL, Bundesliga, top international footy, but then players of Malen's quality wouldn't come here, no matter if we matched Villa's £21m bid or offered Dortmund £40m.
Does Philogene only need a change of scenery to turn difficult performances into impressive ones? He'll face the same crop of fullbacks who schooled him earlier this season. Cause for optimism: George Hirst and his nightmare before joining.
Hirst is one whom we targeted across multiple windows. So too is Taylor, so too Scarlett. Mixed success really, but you have to want your manager to land his targets.
Something I find weird though is talk of Philogene coming in and Clarke going out. I've said this before. Sure Villa have different aspirations and standards to us, but the opponents they've faced are largely the same. Last season was the same scenario, with Hull boasting more attacking quality than Sunderland. Clarke was running past opponents more easily then and he's doing so now. Time will tell if either or both can truly step up to this level, but I see little reason to have zero confidence in one and full confidence in the other. My hope is Philogene will improve our RW options. |
Philogene'sna quality player and he's quicker than Clarke which is important in the prem. I think Clarke can still go on to do well for us. He's just adapting to a new role.
Philogene hasn't played terribly for Villa. He's been used in a more defensive role in some games then he will do for us (but it's good that he can do that job for the team). Funnily enough his best game was against Bayern Munich. He can play at the levels. He's a young kid and can develop. I love the fact we are buying young and home grown talent. I don't see a bad outcome at all here. 5-6 days to sign is nothing and will be forgotten within a week if it happens. Worst case he doesnt work out in the prem but he would then either stay as a top championship player for us or we'll lost him for £10-15 mil. The best case options are great!!
Don't forget he's also played with Delap and knows his game inside out and vice versa. That's a big plus to hitting the ground running. [Post edited 15 Jan 18:10]
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| JP is a bad move on 16:23 - Jan 15 with 1208 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| JP is a bad move on 15:42 - Jan 15 by wkj |
The only thing I can say here is that the longer the saga goes on, whoever is to blame, adds more and more pressure on him to perform. He will be under the microscope of every town fan if he comes, and I hope he's ready for that.
There more it goes on, the more it seems like the agent is holding the cards - however, now Aston Villa say they're ready, and KM has said he wants to come - there is only on man in the crosshairs and that is the agent. |
Speak for yourself.
He won't be under the microscope from me (anymore than any new signing is), because I'm a rational human being that understands that these transfers are complex, and can take time.
I'm certain a large majority of Town fans will fall into the same category, and in fact most won't even be scrutinising this transfer on a minute by minute basis.
It will just be a minority of overly fretful fans that will put a new player under more of a microscope due to the speculation surrounding this transfer. The rest of us will be right behind him. | | | |
| JP is a bad move on 16:24 - Jan 15 with 1199 views | Swansea_Blue |
| JP is a bad move on 16:18 - Jan 15 by Nutkins_Return |
Philogene'sna quality player and he's quicker than Clarke which is important in the prem. I think Clarke can still go on to do well for us. He's just adapting to a new role.
Philogene hasn't played terribly for Villa. He's been used in a more defensive role in some games then he will do for us (but it's good that he can do that job for the team). Funnily enough his best game was against Bayern Munich. He can play at the levels. He's a young kid and can develop. I love the fact we are buying young and home grown talent. I don't see a bad outcome at all here. 5-6 days to sign is nothing and will be forgotten within a week if it happens. Worst case he doesnt work out in the prem but he would then either stay as a top championship player for us or we'll lost him for £10-15 mil. The best case options are great!!
Don't forget he's also played with Delap and knows his game inside out and vice versa. That's a big plus to hitting the ground running. [Post edited 15 Jan 18:10]
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Thank you, I needed that bit of positivity! | |
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| JP is a bad move on 16:24 - Jan 15 with 1199 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| JP is a bad move on 15:42 - Jan 15 by wkj |
The only thing I can say here is that the longer the saga goes on, whoever is to blame, adds more and more pressure on him to perform. He will be under the microscope of every town fan if he comes, and I hope he's ready for that.
There more it goes on, the more it seems like the agent is holding the cards - however, now Aston Villa say they're ready, and KM has said he wants to come - there is only on man in the crosshairs and that is the agent. |
I don't think the length of the contract negotiations will have any baring on the pressure on him to perform. Once the deal is done all this will quickly be forgotten and he'll be judged as a player just like everyone else. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| JP is a bad move on 16:28 - Jan 15 with 1180 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| JP is a bad move on 16:05 - Jan 15 by Smoresy |
I'd prefer Malen obviously and that feeds into the sense we're paying through the nose, as Philogene's only proven himself at a much lower level so far. The Championship is levels below the PL, Bundesliga, top international footy, but then players of Malen's quality wouldn't come here, no matter if we matched Villa's £21m bid or offered Dortmund £40m.
Does Philogene only need a change of scenery to turn difficult performances into impressive ones? He'll face the same crop of fullbacks who schooled him earlier this season. Cause for optimism: George Hirst and his nightmare before joining.
Hirst is one whom we targeted across multiple windows. So too is Taylor, so too Scarlett. Mixed success really, but you have to want your manager to land his targets.
Something I find weird though is talk of Philogene coming in and Clarke going out. I've said this before. Sure Villa have different aspirations and standards to us, but the opponents they've faced are largely the same. Last season was the same scenario, with Hull boasting more attacking quality than Sunderland. Clarke was running past opponents more easily then and he's doing so now. Time will tell if either or both can truly step up to this level, but I see little reason to have zero confidence in one and full confidence in the other. My hope is Philogene will improve our RW options. |
"fullbacks who schooled him earlier this season"? Really? I thought he'd barely played. Which fullbacks schooled him? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| JP is a bad move on 16:54 - Jan 15 with 1107 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
Basically we are trying to buy a player at the second attempt over a 6 month period who may play excluding injury 15 - 16 games for us this season only, if we were to go down he will want to leave and cause just messs we want to avoid.
For the record I am an agent myself but not in the football industry and this sounds like a massive gamble, especially at 20 odd million for less than half a season and he is not even training with the group yet or in the 'building'.
Did we not also pay £15m+ for Jack Clarke in the same position.... [Post edited 15 Jan 16:55]
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| JP is a bad move on 16:59 - Jan 15 with 1084 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
| JP is a bad move on 14:27 - Jan 15 by Nutkins_Return |
Be keen to know your view following the presser. So basically player sounds 100% for joining. He was keen in the summer as well. Key point is he's sold on the club and keen to join. The difficulty is getting this done with the 5 year deal he signed with Villa. Its a 3 way problem to iron out to the satisfaction of Villa/us/His representative. If we take our blue tinted specs off we have to understand all 3 parties need to make this work. It sounds like all 3 parties want it to work but just coming to agreements on the different elements i.e. like Joe mentioned things like relegation clause/reductions are clearly more of a negotiation now. I imagine we might actually be needed to pay less (and with PSR etc etc it's tight).
Main thing here the player wants to come. I'm sure he just wants it done and get on with playing. This isn't a bad egg situation at all. And also it doesn't sound like just Agent problem. It's 3 entities negotiating to get a result.
As McKenna says it's just a difficult deal to conclude. Reality is it's only been going on a few days. Getting tough deals done in 4-6 days is still good going in reality. |
They started a deal in the summer, it's the same people involved so it is not a cold start, they all know one another and what needs to happen.
The players value / salary will remain in the same ball park for contracting. | | | |
| JP is a bad move on 17:12 - Jan 15 with 1048 views | Smoresy |
| JP is a bad move on 16:28 - Jan 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"fullbacks who schooled him earlier this season"? Really? I thought he'd barely played. Which fullbacks schooled him? |
He's averaging 0.28 chances created per 90' in the league this season. 0 goals, 0 shots on target, 0 assists, 0.05 xA, 0 crosses into the penalty area, 33% dribble success. He's in the bottom 1-2% of players across the big 5 leagues in most attacking aspects, once minutes are averaged out. This is from 14 mostly cameo appearances: 332 PL minutes and 121 CL minutes.*
There's 200 pages of opinion on their forum, including performance assessments against each team, if you don't know Villa fans personally or are sceptical of stats. Hopefully the problem has mostly been confidence. Their fans mostly wish him very well.
*Al-Hamadi has 125 PL minutes under his belt from the same number of games (11), for perspective. | | | |
| JP is a bad move on 17:31 - Jan 15 with 1001 views | Smoresy |
| JP is a bad move on 16:18 - Jan 15 by Nutkins_Return |
Philogene'sna quality player and he's quicker than Clarke which is important in the prem. I think Clarke can still go on to do well for us. He's just adapting to a new role.
Philogene hasn't played terribly for Villa. He's been used in a more defensive role in some games then he will do for us (but it's good that he can do that job for the team). Funnily enough his best game was against Bayern Munich. He can play at the levels. He's a young kid and can develop. I love the fact we are buying young and home grown talent. I don't see a bad outcome at all here. 5-6 days to sign is nothing and will be forgotten within a week if it happens. Worst case he doesnt work out in the prem but he would then either stay as a top championship player for us or we'll lost him for £10-15 mil. The best case options are great!!
Don't forget he's also played with Delap and knows his game inside out and vice versa. That's a big plus to hitting the ground running. [Post edited 15 Jan 18:10]
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Good post and I don't mean to sound negative. My intention has largely been to highlight the discrepancy in how we've judged some of our own players. I also think we should be careful to afford the man a chance to breathe, and not to pretend that we're buying a PL winger out the box. I think many have done this and that comes with immediate expectations. Hopefully he'll be that for us by the end of the season.
He put in an excellent defensive performance against Bayern, which will be very useful for us even if the attacking side takes more time. | | | |
| JP is a bad move on 17:59 - Jan 15 with 906 views | wkj |
| JP is a bad move on 16:24 - Jan 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't think the length of the contract negotiations will have any baring on the pressure on him to perform. Once the deal is done all this will quickly be forgotten and he'll be judged as a player just like everyone else. |
Well, there are still weirdos who hold a grudge we didn't sign Curtis tilt. Technically, these negotiations have spanned 2 windows now, and the first time the choice was not town. I think there will be a fair number of people with a bit of a ingrown hair when/if he signs. | |
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