| JP is a bad move 07:41 - Jan 15 with 13617 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
Said it in the summer, the whole situation does not sit well with me.
Seems like a lot of disruption which we could well do without in a really important transfer window.
Surprised Ashton has carried on with the agent as well, he was a nightmare in the summer, and that has not changed. Plus Villa replacing him like for like is not making me think he is going to solve all our issues.
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| JP is a bad move on 08:45 - Jan 15 with 1820 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
| JP is a bad move on 08:40 - Jan 15 by tonybied |
That is true but you know nothing of the reasons behind that. It could be down to the agent, it could be down to lawyers, it could be down to either club. To suggest that this is a bad move when you're guessing at the reasons for the delay is just showing you up as presumptive and impatient, nothing more. |
Let's see what happens today, I am almost sure this happened last time in the same order so basing on past history we have been here previously and the deal did not pan out. | | | |
| JP is a bad move on 08:49 - Jan 15 with 1799 views | BlueNomad |
I’m no fan of agents but we don’t know whether JP’s is or isn’t?
In the summer he had the chance to return to his boyhood club with the promise of playing for them in the CL. When Harry Clarke came back to the club the chants immediately went up that “he’s one of our own.” It must have made him feel over the moon.
Emery said in his presser this week that the move depended on them signing the player they were after. I can’t see where the agent figures largely in this. Ultimately it is a business deal, very few of our players are here because they had grown up aspiring to play for us. |  | | |
| JP is a bad move on 08:50 - Jan 15 with 1788 views | ipswichtillidie |
| JP is a bad move on 07:53 - Jan 15 by gardins01 |
Living in Birmingham and know a lot of villa fans. There view is that we are mad and paying way to much for a player that hasn't performed so far. |
Haha. I’ll go with McKenna over a few randoms in Birmingham tbh. But they’re letting him go. The lad needs a run of games it’s simple. He’s also on a different level to what we currently have on the right. He can also play off the left, tick. We have not one but two players who will know him very well. If not more. Tick. English and young with re-sale value, tick.
This should be done before noon today. Will want him involved off the bench Thursday night. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 08:53 - Jan 15 with 1758 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| JP is a bad move on 08:43 - Jan 15 by WolfieAtTheBack |
Good to see a rounded football based discussion on here. Thank you for your contribution. |
It's about as rounded as your throwing your toys out of the pram posts. It'll get done when it gets done, photographs in Milsomes or how long Delap's deal took have nothing to do with it. Chill the feck out and while you're at it, pop the kettle on. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| JP is a bad move on 08:54 - Jan 15 with 1754 views | Zx1988 |
| JP is a bad move on 08:45 - Jan 15 by WolfieAtTheBack |
Let's see what happens today, I am almost sure this happened last time in the same order so basing on past history we have been here previously and the deal did not pan out. |
You seem absolutely convinced that the deal isn't going to happen. Care to put your money where your mouth is, for charity? | |
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| Ashton has no choice but to deal with the agent on 08:55 - Jan 15 with 1745 views | Dyland |
JP is clearly a big want from McK so fair enough, this is what Ashton has to do.
Maybe they're (the agent and club) are still negotiating relegation clauses, which of course is nothing to with the deal with Villa or top line player terms.
Look, the club reeeally want him so let's hope it gets done. If it doesn't, meh we move on. Annoying but it's football ffs. Whatever.
Need that striker as well and I'm sure the club are moving heaven and earth to sort. Again, if it doesn't happen let's judge it against other activity elsewhere rather than assume we've been hapless. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 09:00 - Jan 15 with 1677 views | bsw72 |
| JP is a bad move on 08:37 - Jan 15 by WolfieAtTheBack |
JP should be training with the club now, instead his team are taking photos for social media with the player as it stand, unsigned. |
More assumptions based on social media posts - how do you know exactly what is going on on the 23+ hours in the day outside of these posts?
If he is unsigned, he should not be training with us, simple.
Contracts can take time to negotiate - there may be terms and conditions he had on his Villa contract which are important to him, but may differ significantly from terms and wording used by Ipswich on our contracts - therefore the lawyers need to clearly agree on these terms.
Imagine the outcry if we rushed a contract and then subsequently lost a player on the cheap due to terms and wording which put ITFC at a disadvantage. The club are playing over £20m for him, I'd like to think they are double checking all the details to protect both sides.
I would also suggest that I doubt all parties are sitting round a table from 8am to 6pm to thrash these things through, the club and management will be working on other activities, such as maybe preparing for the 2 x home games this week, or other transfer deals in or out - likewise I would suggest that JP is training somewhere in the interim also, as he is a professional footballer.
Finally as a contract example (not football, but legal terms are legal terms) in 2023 I was onboarding a new AI SaaS solution at my firm - the vendor standard terms and conditions were wildly different from our corporate T&Cs, primarily around liability and exit clauses - it took 4 months of legal contract negotiations to get the contract to the state that nboth parties would sign off. Lawyers do not rush things. [Post edited 15 Jan 9:03]
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| JP is a bad move on 09:18 - Jan 15 with 1586 views | MattinLondon |
Why do people feel that the agent was a nightmare? At the start of the season we put in a bid for him which Villa matched. Player went there - don’t blame him, bigger club, European football and little chance of a relegation battle.
Fast forward to now - we put in a bid for him, agent puts out feelers to see if any other clubs are interested - that’s their job.
A lot of players probably didn’t want to come here. I bet that SM and LD weren’t that enthusiastic about joining a then L1 club.
We don’t seem to sign bell ends or players that don’t work hard - if the coaching staff feels that he’s a good fit then they have more than enough credit in the bank for the club to trust them. |  | | |
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| JP is a bad move on 09:19 - Jan 15 with 1581 views | berkstractorboy |
| JP is a bad move on 08:45 - Jan 15 by WolfieAtTheBack |
Let's see what happens today, I am almost sure this happened last time in the same order so basing on past history we have been here previously and the deal did not pan out. |
It's as if last time there wasn't a different situation where Villa had a matching clause which they executed. The player chose a CL team with almost zero chance of relegation, a manager that was being lauded for getting Villa into CL and maybe he was given more assurance of game time. The game time may not have happened as other players stepped up more than Emery expected, could be down to JP not training so well. We just don't know.
So it's not fair to assume as the deal didn't end up happening before it won't happen now, it seems quite different to me. | | | |
| JP is a bad move on 09:28 - Jan 15 with 1509 views | pointofblue |
I'm not a fan of this signing, I have to admit.
Firstly because we're having to pay more than we would have done in the summer. Basically both Villa and the player have stitched us up.
Secondly we're paying the same amount for him as Villa have paid for a player who has experience in the Champions League. Yet again, we're buying English players and having to pay excessively for them.
Thirdly he is unproven. To make it worse he has not made an impact for Villa when given a chance. At least Clarke was a relative unknown at this level and may have clicked (see Delap). Philogene has been given a chance and found wanting.
Fourthly, his agent appears to be a pain in the proverbial to deal with.
Maybe a chance of scenery will work. Maybe we'll look back on this and go we ripped Villa off with a £21m deal. I really hope so. But, right now, he does feel more like a Jack Clarke than an Omari Hutchinson. If it goes through, I hope I'm wrong. If it doesn't, I hope I'm right. | |
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| JP is a bad move on 09:28 - Jan 15 with 1502 views | Garv |
| JP is a bad move on 07:53 - Jan 15 by gardins01 |
Living in Birmingham and know a lot of villa fans. There view is that we are mad and paying way to much for a player that hasn't performed so far. |
Delap was overpriced as well apparently. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 09:34 - Jan 15 with 1472 views | MattinLondon |
| JP is a bad move on 09:28 - Jan 15 by pointofblue |
I'm not a fan of this signing, I have to admit.
Firstly because we're having to pay more than we would have done in the summer. Basically both Villa and the player have stitched us up.
Secondly we're paying the same amount for him as Villa have paid for a player who has experience in the Champions League. Yet again, we're buying English players and having to pay excessively for them.
Thirdly he is unproven. To make it worse he has not made an impact for Villa when given a chance. At least Clarke was a relative unknown at this level and may have clicked (see Delap). Philogene has been given a chance and found wanting.
Fourthly, his agent appears to be a pain in the proverbial to deal with.
Maybe a chance of scenery will work. Maybe we'll look back on this and go we ripped Villa off with a £21m deal. I really hope so. But, right now, he does feel more like a Jack Clarke than an Omari Hutchinson. If it goes through, I hope I'm wrong. If it doesn't, I hope I'm right. |
1. Winter transfer market tends to be a tad more expensive. Always has been.
2. That player has one year left on his contract plus his wages will be much much higher that JPs.
3. JO hasn’t played regularly and hasn’t been given a real run in their first team.
4. He’s an agent, his job is to get the best possible deal for his client. | | | |
| JP is a bad move on 09:41 - Jan 15 with 1410 views | Kieran_Knows |
| JP is a bad move on 09:28 - Jan 15 by pointofblue |
I'm not a fan of this signing, I have to admit.
Firstly because we're having to pay more than we would have done in the summer. Basically both Villa and the player have stitched us up.
Secondly we're paying the same amount for him as Villa have paid for a player who has experience in the Champions League. Yet again, we're buying English players and having to pay excessively for them.
Thirdly he is unproven. To make it worse he has not made an impact for Villa when given a chance. At least Clarke was a relative unknown at this level and may have clicked (see Delap). Philogene has been given a chance and found wanting.
Fourthly, his agent appears to be a pain in the proverbial to deal with.
Maybe a chance of scenery will work. Maybe we'll look back on this and go we ripped Villa off with a £21m deal. I really hope so. But, right now, he does feel more like a Jack Clarke than an Omari Hutchinson. If it goes through, I hope I'm wrong. If it doesn't, I hope I'm right. |
When are people going to get it in to their heads, Donyell Malen has been playing for clubs in the Champions League for the last 7 years, and is joining a club who are playing in the Champions League. We are not signing players in the same pond, as the likes of Villa (yet). |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 09:43 - Jan 15 with 1373 views | ghostofescobar |
| JP is a bad move on 07:53 - Jan 15 by gardins01 |
Living in Birmingham and know a lot of villa fans. There view is that we are mad and paying way to much for a player that hasn't performed so far. |
Probably plenty that thought we paid too much for Delap. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 09:44 - Jan 15 with 1365 views | pointofblue |
| JP is a bad move on 09:34 - Jan 15 by MattinLondon |
1. Winter transfer market tends to be a tad more expensive. Always has been.
2. That player has one year left on his contract plus his wages will be much much higher that JPs.
3. JO hasn’t played regularly and hasn’t been given a real run in their first team.
4. He’s an agent, his job is to get the best possible deal for his client. |
On the first point, it isn't as much the amount being paid but the fact we would have had him for less in the summer if Villa hadn't stuck their noses in. It must have been obvious to them he would have less game time there than he would do here but they took a gamble because they were thinking of money and little outside of that. And it's seemingly worked for them.
I think the Malen signing shows there are better bargains abroad then constantly shopping for young English players. Unfortunately our scouting team was neglected by Evans and our improvement under Gamechanger has outgrown it's development which, whilst annoying, is just one of those things.
Perhaps Philogene will thrive being a bigger fish in a smaller pond. If he joins, I hope so.
Every agent's role is to get the best possible deal for his client but Philogene's is pretty unique. I don't think it helps that Philogene is seemingly the biggest name of his books. | |
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| JP is a bad move on 09:47 - Jan 15 with 1327 views | ipswichtillidie |
| JP is a bad move on 09:18 - Jan 15 by MattinLondon |
Why do people feel that the agent was a nightmare? At the start of the season we put in a bid for him which Villa matched. Player went there - don’t blame him, bigger club, European football and little chance of a relegation battle.
Fast forward to now - we put in a bid for him, agent puts out feelers to see if any other clubs are interested - that’s their job.
A lot of players probably didn’t want to come here. I bet that SM and LD weren’t that enthusiastic about joining a then L1 club.
We don’t seem to sign bell ends or players that don’t work hard - if the coaching staff feels that he’s a good fit then they have more than enough credit in the bank for the club to trust them. |
Nothing wrong with that part as you say but you’ve seen the stuff he posts right? Regardless of him doing his job, he is a nob, that isn’t up for debate. | |
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| JP is a bad move on 09:47 - Jan 15 with 1323 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| JP is a bad move on 09:18 - Jan 15 by MattinLondon |
Why do people feel that the agent was a nightmare? At the start of the season we put in a bid for him which Villa matched. Player went there - don’t blame him, bigger club, European football and little chance of a relegation battle.
Fast forward to now - we put in a bid for him, agent puts out feelers to see if any other clubs are interested - that’s their job.
A lot of players probably didn’t want to come here. I bet that SM and LD weren’t that enthusiastic about joining a then L1 club.
We don’t seem to sign bell ends or players that don’t work hard - if the coaching staff feels that he’s a good fit then they have more than enough credit in the bank for the club to trust them. |
The agent did act like a clown in the summer.
Taking selfies outside any club he could find, in order to try to feed the speculation. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 09:50 - Jan 15 with 1288 views | BloomBlue |
I'm not overly excited, but that's because he failed at AV and if anyone doesn't think Emery is a top mgr, then they don't understand football.
However as I've said on another post, it's possible him going back to AV simply didn't click. Certain players at certain clubs not working out has happened 100s of times, but then they move clubs and it suddenly all clicks.
Also if he has good advisors they should be telling him this move needs to work, as failing at AV has put a question over his head, ie is his limit top Champ. So that may be a real positive for us, he will be even more determined to prove the AV situation was simply wrong place/wrong time and he does have the ability to be a PL player. |  | | |
| JP is a bad move on 09:51 - Jan 15 with 1279 views | MattinLondon |
| JP is a bad move on 09:44 - Jan 15 by pointofblue |
On the first point, it isn't as much the amount being paid but the fact we would have had him for less in the summer if Villa hadn't stuck their noses in. It must have been obvious to them he would have less game time there than he would do here but they took a gamble because they were thinking of money and little outside of that. And it's seemingly worked for them.
I think the Malen signing shows there are better bargains abroad then constantly shopping for young English players. Unfortunately our scouting team was neglected by Evans and our improvement under Gamechanger has outgrown it's development which, whilst annoying, is just one of those things.
Perhaps Philogene will thrive being a bigger fish in a smaller pond. If he joins, I hope so.
Every agent's role is to get the best possible deal for his client but Philogene's is pretty unique. I don't think it helps that Philogene is seemingly the biggest name of his books. |
Further to your first paragraph. The fact that we’re buying directly from a PL club must add on a few million to the asking price as well. A championship club doesn’t have the same bargaining position especially if they don’t have parachute payments. | | | |
| JP is a bad move on 09:52 - Jan 15 with 1272 views | pointofblue |
| JP is a bad move on 09:41 - Jan 15 by Kieran_Knows |
When are people going to get it in to their heads, Donyell Malen has been playing for clubs in the Champions League for the last 7 years, and is joining a club who are playing in the Champions League. We are not signing players in the same pond, as the likes of Villa (yet). |
It's not that I'm expecting us to buy Malen. It's that we're paying the same amount of money - or perhaps slightly more - for an unproven winger as they are for someone who has seven years of Champions League experience. Bargain buys are generally foreign players, not English youths, where you generally have to over pay. When looking at the Malen deal you cannot say Clarke is worth £18m or Philogene is worth £21m at this stage of their careers. Then again, as pointed out, Delap.
I appreciate we've decided to go with it as, if it works out then we'll be able to add English tax when selling these players on. And that may be enough to cover those who have not been so successful.
I do think we'd benefit from branching out abroad, though, and it is gutting, and slightly problematic, that we haven't been able to yet as, as I said in my previous post, that's where the bargains are. From memory, that's what helped Forest remould their squad. | |
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| JP is a bad move on 09:53 - Jan 15 with 1267 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| JP is a bad move on 09:44 - Jan 15 by pointofblue |
On the first point, it isn't as much the amount being paid but the fact we would have had him for less in the summer if Villa hadn't stuck their noses in. It must have been obvious to them he would have less game time there than he would do here but they took a gamble because they were thinking of money and little outside of that. And it's seemingly worked for them.
I think the Malen signing shows there are better bargains abroad then constantly shopping for young English players. Unfortunately our scouting team was neglected by Evans and our improvement under Gamechanger has outgrown it's development which, whilst annoying, is just one of those things.
Perhaps Philogene will thrive being a bigger fish in a smaller pond. If he joins, I hope so.
Every agent's role is to get the best possible deal for his client but Philogene's is pretty unique. I don't think it helps that Philogene is seemingly the biggest name of his books. |
You've kind of answered a lot of your own points.
With Malen, there's no guarantee he (or any other foreign import) is going to click with England, the Prem and the team immediately, but it's a risk Villa can afford to take. We can't. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| JP is a bad move on 10:02 - Jan 15 with 1167 views | tractorboy1978 |
| JP is a bad move on 09:52 - Jan 15 by pointofblue |
It's not that I'm expecting us to buy Malen. It's that we're paying the same amount of money - or perhaps slightly more - for an unproven winger as they are for someone who has seven years of Champions League experience. Bargain buys are generally foreign players, not English youths, where you generally have to over pay. When looking at the Malen deal you cannot say Clarke is worth £18m or Philogene is worth £21m at this stage of their careers. Then again, as pointed out, Delap.
I appreciate we've decided to go with it as, if it works out then we'll be able to add English tax when selling these players on. And that may be enough to cover those who have not been so successful.
I do think we'd benefit from branching out abroad, though, and it is gutting, and slightly problematic, that we haven't been able to yet as, as I said in my previous post, that's where the bargains are. From memory, that's what helped Forest remould their squad. |
We do it because these are players McKenna knows inside out, has thoroughly character checked, thinks he can integrate quickly and who he backs himself to improve. I find it baffling that people get so het up still about players McKenna obviously wants (often over a period of months/years). Surely he has earned the right to be trusted? | | | |
| JP is a bad move on 10:05 - Jan 15 with 1132 views | pointofblue |
| JP is a bad move on 09:53 - Jan 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You've kind of answered a lot of your own points.
With Malen, there's no guarantee he (or any other foreign import) is going to click with England, the Prem and the team immediately, but it's a risk Villa can afford to take. We can't. |
Are Villa taking any more of a risk than we are by signing from abroad? You could argue wages but - as a few people pointed out when I made a horrific maths error - they've basically made £13m or so on Philogene to cover it. | |
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| JP is a bad move on 10:07 - Jan 15 with 1120 views | hype313 |
| JP is a bad move on 09:18 - Jan 15 by MattinLondon |
Why do people feel that the agent was a nightmare? At the start of the season we put in a bid for him which Villa matched. Player went there - don’t blame him, bigger club, European football and little chance of a relegation battle.
Fast forward to now - we put in a bid for him, agent puts out feelers to see if any other clubs are interested - that’s their job.
A lot of players probably didn’t want to come here. I bet that SM and LD weren’t that enthusiastic about joining a then L1 club.
We don’t seem to sign bell ends or players that don’t work hard - if the coaching staff feels that he’s a good fit then they have more than enough credit in the bank for the club to trust them. |
From what I hear, from inside the club, the agent is being quite painful to say the least. |  |
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| JP is a bad move on 10:09 - Jan 15 with 1114 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| JP is a bad move on 09:50 - Jan 15 by BloomBlue |
I'm not overly excited, but that's because he failed at AV and if anyone doesn't think Emery is a top mgr, then they don't understand football.
However as I've said on another post, it's possible him going back to AV simply didn't click. Certain players at certain clubs not working out has happened 100s of times, but then they move clubs and it suddenly all clicks.
Also if he has good advisors they should be telling him this move needs to work, as failing at AV has put a question over his head, ie is his limit top Champ. So that may be a real positive for us, he will be even more determined to prove the AV situation was simply wrong place/wrong time and he does have the ability to be a PL player. |
I remember people moaning about Alan Lee when he came in. He did alright.
In more recent times, a lot weren't enthused by the Hirst signing and Leicester fans seemed to think he was nothing special.
Trust in McKenna, I reckon. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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