| We have a Goalkeeper issue 09:46 - Jan 27 with 6156 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
I have been reluctant to call players out/criticise players all season. I don't actually think I have done it all season because I absolutely appreciate just how big a step up this is.
But I think we have a big issue in the goalkeeper department.
The flaws of Muric were clear for all to see. Had some really good moments but his kicking was hit and miss and he was making too many mistakes at important times. Walton got his shot and had a good start vs Chelsea, but I think he has been pretty poor in the last few games. There was the one that dribbled under him vs Brighton. I thought he should've been stronger a couple times vs City, mainly the Mcatee goal. I also think he could have done better with a couple Liverpool goals yesterday, albeit I haven't seen the game back.
When you are in the position we are in, you cannot afford to have constant goalkeeping mistakes, its makes a tough task even tougher.
Out of the 2 we have now, I think I would go with Muric. Higher upside. But I would have seriously considered getting another keeper in this month. |  |
| |  |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 11:02 - Jan 27 with 1407 views | LeoMuff |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 10:52 - Jan 27 by ArnieM |
Muric was never our primary target I believe, so was 2nd or maybe even 3rd choice. There are issues with both keepers it true. Neither are really quite good enough , at this level. If we stay at this level, we surely do need to offload and replace both.
But for me the most pressing area next to address is our midfield. Too slow, and lacking in any dynamic play whatsoever, and I honestly don’t think there’s any midfielder in that MF squad that is good enough. |
Agree with this, MF is lost most weeks. Saving grace with Muric is he has potential to be world class, IF he cuts out the 1-2 errors. Hopefully not, but if we go down he will be the best keeper in the championship. |  |
| |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 11:04 - Jan 27 with 1398 views | tonybied |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 10:39 - Jan 27 by Dubtractor |
Absolutely, it might have been 5-0 and 3-1 instead, it barely matters in those games.
But in tighter games it will matter.
It's not just about shot stopping though. Walton preference for going long means we're utterly unable to get a foothold in games, and allow teams to just build up a head of steam against us.
Neither option is brilliant as it stands, but personally I'd pick Muric. |
There's an argument that "IF" we'd let in a couple less in the last couple of games that it "COULD" matter, quite a lot. If we end the season just on the wrong side if the dotted line, it's possible that GD could be helpful and 2 less conceded in these games might be the difference. Of course, that just supposition but we need every advantage we can get right now, it's been such a tight race so far and little differences like that could make it break our bid for survival. |  | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 11:06 - Jan 27 with 1388 views | OldFart71 |
We can criticise the keepers as much as we want but at the end of the day too many players in virtually every position have been found wanting. Davis has been caught out endless times, Greaves has made mistakes by getting turned too easily and I remember an earlier game when he hoofed a ball straight to an oppositions forward player and he scored. Woolfy has made mistakes and everyone in midfield has been guilty of misplaced passes or being out of position. Hutchinson has been nowhere near the player of last season. I suppose the only two places that can say their form has been good is O'Shea and Delap and even he hasn't scored for several games. But then I think it's more to do with chances created than his ability. We have been found out big time but this has a lot to do with getting where we are too soon, injuries to key players not allowing a settled team. Hopefully the new lads will be able to improve our current form as we need to beat those around us otherwise we're doomed Mr Mainwaring. |  | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 11:13 - Jan 27 with 1365 views | itfcjoe |
Muric has the odd brain fart, but Walton just doesn't seem to save any actual shots! This happened in the midst of the L1 season around this time and there were calls for Hladky but he did come good afterwards.
It does feel like a re-run of Sereni vs Marshall - we are playing an inferior GK because there are some issues with the better one |  |
| |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 11:14 - Jan 27 with 1351 views | bsw72 |
All of the above makes sense, but the issue is there are very few keepers around who do not have a mistake in them these days.
If you then compound that to consider that frequency of mistakes will occer the more that keepers are more involved in the game, then naturally you would expect keepers who are playing with teams in the lower half of the table therefore under more pressure would make more mistakes.
According to the PL stats Muric has made most mistakes leading to goals.
I would suggest that the better way to measure a keeper's goalkeeping ability is to look at things like save percentage of shots on target, vs total game time.
In 17 games, Muric has saved 65 out of 96 - so a 70% rate, puts him 12th on the list of those playing 8 or more games this season. This puts him ahead of all the bottom half keepers, apart from Fabianski. Top is Dubravka at Newcastle who has an 80% but has only played 8 games.
So where does Walton sit? In his 6 games he has faced 33 shots on target, saving only 17, so a lower success rate than Muric of 57.6%.
If Muric had the same rate we would have conceded an additional 10 goals this season.
Looking at crosses intercepted; Muric stopped 37 or 239 (15.5%) which puts him top in the PL, Walton stopped 11 / 105 (10.5%).
Pass completion over 40 yards is much closer with Walton slightly ahead on 35% (38/108) vs 34% for Muric (75/220).
The one big difference is that Muric comes out of his area more. Muric has come off his line to act as a sweeper 19 times (average of ~1 per game), Walton has only come out of his area once in his 6 games.
I fully understand that these metrics show only part of the keeper role, but surely the save/cross statistics alone warrant Muric playing as that is their bread and butter.
All of this is kind of irrelevant though, it's not my job to pick the team and make it work  |  | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 11:18 - Jan 27 with 1332 views | tractorboy1978 |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 11:13 - Jan 27 by itfcjoe |
Muric has the odd brain fart, but Walton just doesn't seem to save any actual shots! This happened in the midst of the L1 season around this time and there were calls for Hladky but he did come good afterwards.
It does feel like a re-run of Sereni vs Marshall - we are playing an inferior GK because there are some issues with the better one |
Yep. Muric is a better shot stopper, better at handling and taking crosses and more progressive with his feet. Being able to play out from the back is really important when you look at the types of players we have and the way McKenna likes to play. We need the ball going into Hutchinson/Philogene/Enciso/Broadhead's feet to carry it and get us up the pitch. Even Delap is better with the ball into his feet and given a chance to gallop than he is taking a long ball back to goal. [Post edited 27 Jan 11:20]
| | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 11:38 - Jan 27 with 1281 views | Herbivore |
It's part of where we're at in our journey that both of our keepers have flaws and it's not unique to our goalkeeping position either. If Muric made better decisions and was more consistent with his distribution, he'd probably still be at City as the successor to Ederson. If not he'd be at a top half Prem side. I love Walton but he looks every bit a back up keeper. No howlers as such but not quite good enough in key areas like shot stopping and distribution. I think most Prem keepers stop at least 2 or 3 of the last 12 we've conceded.
It goes for other positions as well. Most Prem teams have players that have very few weaknesses where most of ours have got some fairly obvious ones. In most cases, they are young and improving, but if someone like Omari, for example, always made the right decision on the ball he'd be in Chelsea's team right now, not ours. He does loads well and has improved massively over the last 18 months but he's not the finished article and that's always going to be the case with the types of players we're able to bring in. [Post edited 27 Jan 12:50]
|  |
| |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 12:22 - Jan 27 with 1173 views | Bury_St_Edmundson |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 10:52 - Jan 27 by ArnieM |
Muric was never our primary target I believe, so was 2nd or maybe even 3rd choice. There are issues with both keepers it true. Neither are really quite good enough , at this level. If we stay at this level, we surely do need to offload and replace both.
But for me the most pressing area next to address is our midfield. Too slow, and lacking in any dynamic play whatsoever, and I honestly don’t think there’s any midfielder in that MF squad that is good enough. |
MF not good enough?
Laughs in Jens Cajuste |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 12:35 - Jan 27 with 1154 views | ipswichtillidie |
For me, Muric needed taking out of the firing line, McKenna managed it well and I agree it’s a tough decision because neither has made it easy to keep as a no1. I do wonder if they are looking in the market because that’s what we’ve done in all the other positions. That said if Muric can drastically improve he game with his feet and stop playing the straight pass out that would help immediately imo. |  |
| |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 12:53 - Jan 27 with 1088 views | LA_Tractor_Boy |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 09:52 - Jan 27 by Steve_M |
Walton seems to have a problem with low shots, he's not getting down to them quickly enough. Szoboszlai's shot was well placed but it wasn't hit that hard, I think Walton should have done better there. He was a bit unfortunate with the deflection for Brighton's first goal but should have done better there too.,
Muric is the better keeper, albeit he can't concentrate for 90 minutes and makes errors like the Bournemouth goal at times. He's better than the collective view of Town fans now allows for though.
I think the benefit of the change has now worn off but whether that's enough for a change back is another matter. I think I would do so though. |
It's definitely a tricky situation and similar to the one we faced in 2001/02 with Sereni and Marshall.
I think the problem KMc has, is that he can only switch back once IMO. Barring injury, he can't keep chopping and changing keepers. | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 12:54 - Jan 27 with 1086 views | Vaughan8 |
I'm sure in League one, didn't Walton let in about 6 or 7 in a row of shots on target (or am I making that up)?
I can see people points, but imagine putting Muric back in for the Southampton game, does a cock up and we lose.....!
Very difficult decision but I think we (McKenna) needs to choose one and stick with it. | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:25 - Jan 27 with 1035 views | Europablue |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 10:02 - Jan 27 by Kieran_Knows |
If you think Muric’s kicking is bad then god knows what you think of Walton’s. |
I think people prefer the ball to go out for a throw than go to an opposing player when the kick is bad, but the whole point of KM's style is to play the percentages. When we are managing a game, we shouldn't be afraid of playing safe. We should never concede an equalizer because we were pushing too much for a second. | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:28 - Jan 27 with 1030 views | Europablue |
In a way, I think that the supporters forced KM's hand. We needed the run of games for Walton to understand that he is not the answer that suddenly makes Muric a terrible signing. We have two goalkeepers who are not up to the standards of being top goalkeepers in the Premier League. It is funny that the teams who would benefit most from a top goalkeeper don't often get to have them. | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:39 - Jan 27 with 1001 views | _clive_baker_ |
The better of our 2 keepers is prone to a massive brain fart and nobody on the pitch or in the stands appeared to have any faith in him pretty much from day 1. He's now been dropped for a lesser keeper across most departments, one who will likely (IMO) ship more and softer goals than Muric (probably already has), but is perhaps less likely to make a monumental balls up. On balance I think we'll be worse off with Walton, but we might at least have shallower lows.
Its a bit ridiculous that we've spent £9m on a player who can't get in ahead of the bloke we've had here since L1. We've become a bit desensitised to those sorts of numbers but it wasn't long ago it would've been 2x our record signings and about 6x as much as we'd spent on anyone in about 15 years. It's a lot, and its a bit of a mess. |  | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:44 - Jan 27 with 966 views | tractorboy1978 |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:39 - Jan 27 by _clive_baker_ |
The better of our 2 keepers is prone to a massive brain fart and nobody on the pitch or in the stands appeared to have any faith in him pretty much from day 1. He's now been dropped for a lesser keeper across most departments, one who will likely (IMO) ship more and softer goals than Muric (probably already has), but is perhaps less likely to make a monumental balls up. On balance I think we'll be worse off with Walton, but we might at least have shallower lows.
Its a bit ridiculous that we've spent £9m on a player who can't get in ahead of the bloke we've had here since L1. We've become a bit desensitised to those sorts of numbers but it wasn't long ago it would've been 2x our record signings and about 6x as much as we'd spent on anyone in about 15 years. It's a lot, and its a bit of a mess. |
£9m isn't very much though is it? Mad to say, but it isn't. Ramsdale cost twice as much and hasn't exactly moved the dial for Southampton. Wolves spent £10m on Sam Johnstone as a 'safe pair of hands' and he's been absolutely abysmal and already dropped. Brighton wanted more than that for Rushworth and he's just gone back there from a loan at Hull because he couldn't get games! | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:44 - Jan 27 with 962 views | Europablue |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 11:06 - Jan 27 by OldFart71 |
We can criticise the keepers as much as we want but at the end of the day too many players in virtually every position have been found wanting. Davis has been caught out endless times, Greaves has made mistakes by getting turned too easily and I remember an earlier game when he hoofed a ball straight to an oppositions forward player and he scored. Woolfy has made mistakes and everyone in midfield has been guilty of misplaced passes or being out of position. Hutchinson has been nowhere near the player of last season. I suppose the only two places that can say their form has been good is O'Shea and Delap and even he hasn't scored for several games. But then I think it's more to do with chances created than his ability. We have been found out big time but this has a lot to do with getting where we are too soon, injuries to key players not allowing a settled team. Hopefully the new lads will be able to improve our current form as we need to beat those around us otherwise we're doomed Mr Mainwaring. |
Burgess has looked solid and I cannot understand why he was replaced and has not had a look in since. | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:48 - Jan 27 with 946 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:39 - Jan 27 by _clive_baker_ |
The better of our 2 keepers is prone to a massive brain fart and nobody on the pitch or in the stands appeared to have any faith in him pretty much from day 1. He's now been dropped for a lesser keeper across most departments, one who will likely (IMO) ship more and softer goals than Muric (probably already has), but is perhaps less likely to make a monumental balls up. On balance I think we'll be worse off with Walton, but we might at least have shallower lows.
Its a bit ridiculous that we've spent £9m on a player who can't get in ahead of the bloke we've had here since L1. We've become a bit desensitised to those sorts of numbers but it wasn't long ago it would've been 2x our record signings and about 6x as much as we'd spent on anyone in about 15 years. It's a lot, and its a bit of a mess. |
Agree.
Some people have mentioned that being part of a newly promoted team means you aren't going to have quality at every position. People are going to make mistakes etc. And I do get this, I think it is fair challenge. But in my eyes we now have 2 goalkeepers who actively give away points. Not even that they are just average, steady keepers. They cant really be relied on.
As I said in my OP. I don't come on here to criticise and moan. It isn't my thing. I also defended Muric a lot on here and certainly didn't agree with pile on. That being said I do fear that we are now in a position where we have 2 keepers who will potentially make us worse. Which we cannot afford. | |
| |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:53 - Jan 27 with 927 views | BlueForYou |
Said it last season & again for this season. Neither of our keepers are good enough for this league. I favour Walton though if thats that's all we're going to have. |  | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:55 - Jan 27 with 912 views | _clive_baker_ |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:44 - Jan 27 by tractorboy1978 |
£9m isn't very much though is it? Mad to say, but it isn't. Ramsdale cost twice as much and hasn't exactly moved the dial for Southampton. Wolves spent £10m on Sam Johnstone as a 'safe pair of hands' and he's been absolutely abysmal and already dropped. Brighton wanted more than that for Rushworth and he's just gone back there from a loan at Hull because he couldn't get games! |
It is for us. We've got a finite amount of money to spend, and £9m of it is sitting on the bench in Muric. I understand what you're saying by PL standards £9m isn't a huge amount, but its still 7.5% of what we've spent. Having it sat on the bench and 2nd in line to a keeper who has spent most of his career in L1 is a bit of a mess. It hasn't worked out has it. | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 14:04 - Jan 27 with 872 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:55 - Jan 27 by _clive_baker_ |
It is for us. We've got a finite amount of money to spend, and £9m of it is sitting on the bench in Muric. I understand what you're saying by PL standards £9m isn't a huge amount, but its still 7.5% of what we've spent. Having it sat on the bench and 2nd in line to a keeper who has spent most of his career in L1 is a bit of a mess. It hasn't worked out has it. |
Muric has the potential to be a top keeper, but I'm not sure we have time to develop him into that, nor is being in a team that is way behind most of the rest of the EPL for quality across the park, a good place for him to be 'developing'.
However, it is what it is.
[Post edited 27 Jan 14:50]
| | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 14:18 - Jan 27 with 845 views | tractorboy1978 |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 13:55 - Jan 27 by _clive_baker_ |
It is for us. We've got a finite amount of money to spend, and £9m of it is sitting on the bench in Muric. I understand what you're saying by PL standards £9m isn't a huge amount, but its still 7.5% of what we've spent. Having it sat on the bench and 2nd in line to a keeper who has spent most of his career in L1 is a bit of a mess. It hasn't worked out has it. |
It's mad Walton is playing for me. He's so obviously inferior to Muric. I know you can't just ignore the brain farts but really we are talking about two of them that have cost us points Brentford and Bournemouth, the City game we lose anyway. He's made big saves in a few other games that have helped us pick up points. His goals conceded vs expected based on xG is bang on 0. He has the best cross collection % in the division. The way some people bang on, he's terrible and has no redeeming features. | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 14:23 - Jan 27 with 821 views | _clive_baker_ |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 14:18 - Jan 27 by tractorboy1978 |
It's mad Walton is playing for me. He's so obviously inferior to Muric. I know you can't just ignore the brain farts but really we are talking about two of them that have cost us points Brentford and Bournemouth, the City game we lose anyway. He's made big saves in a few other games that have helped us pick up points. His goals conceded vs expected based on xG is bang on 0. He has the best cross collection % in the division. The way some people bang on, he's terrible and has no redeeming features. |
I agree with you. We've spent £9m on a keeper we're deeming to be lesser than the guy who sat on our bench all of last season as we deemed him lesser than the one we let leave on a free. Appreciate we're at a different level and need different characteristics this season, but it doesn't make a lot of sense.
If £9m doesn't get us an upgrade vs. Walton then don't spend it. Easy to say it in hindsight but its a mess of a situation IMO.
I'd stick Muric back in, give him the 15 games and live with it. | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 14:23 - Jan 27 with 819 views | Stewart27 |
The Walton/Muric argument is getting tedious now.
All it tells us is that neither are good enough for the PL. | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 14:26 - Jan 27 with 810 views | Europablue |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 14:23 - Jan 27 by Stewart27 |
The Walton/Muric argument is getting tedious now.
All it tells us is that neither are good enough for the PL. |
Should we add Slicker into the mix? | | | |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 14:38 - Jan 27 with 788 views | ronnyd |
| We have a Goalkeeper issue on 10:12 - Jan 27 by Linners |
It's not a 'sexy' way to spend £20m, and not usually an investment, but I wonder whether that's where your first spend as a newly promoted team should go on - a genuine top 'keeper. That said, Soton did that with Ramsdale and it's hard be revolutionary for them.
For what it's worth, I'd go back to Muric for most of the reasons outlined below. |
Ramsdale is a good keeper, it's just that Soton's defence is even more suicidal that ours. He was unlucky to lose his place to Raya at Arse too. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
