| "Big clubs" 11:40 - Feb 20 with 5233 views | DinnernotTea |
That you can't really get your head around why they're deemed that, either by their own fans or the media.
Birmingham
Leicester
Portsmouth
Sheff United
Sheff Wednesday
Blackburn
West Brom
Derby
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| "Big clubs" on 12:08 - Feb 20 with 3503 views | gainsboroughblue |
I'd say clubs like Portsmouth are big in the relative sense of that they were big for Leagues One and Two which they were bobbing about in up until this season.
Birmingham, not for me
Leicester, ditto
Sheff U, not sure
Sheff Wed, I'd say are a big club
Blackburn- Nope
WBA- Not quite
Derby- I'd say yes. |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 12:09 - Feb 20 with 3492 views | J2BLUE |
That's what makes the Championship so good. There are usually about 20 medium sized clubs who are very similar in size.
Big club is one of those terms you can easily argue either way. If comparing to Real Madrid then no. If comparing to Forest Green then yes.
They are all decent clubs IMO. |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 12:16 - Feb 20 with 3445 views | PrideOfTheEast |
Can only really be defined by supporter base? We're a big club in the context of the 92, but clearly not a big club in the context of the Premier League. Maybe we're an average sized club in the Premier League (just) and Championship (easily), and a big club any lower?
Of that list, I'd put Derby, Brum, Leicester, Sheff Utd in the same bracket as us. Sheff Weds potentially slightly higher, and WBA slightly lower. Don't see Portsmouth or Blackburn as being close in size to us. | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 12:16 - Feb 20 with 3441 views | WestSussexBlue |
It depends on how you’re gauging it.
Size of stadium, size of fan base, history, current league standings?
I’d never ever say Bournemouth are a big club but if they finish fifth and end up in the Europa league, would you say that makes them a big club? | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 12:39 - Feb 20 with 3326 views | Rimsy |
I'm sure fans of other clubs would add Ipswich to that list. |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 12:41 - Feb 20 with 3312 views | Illinoisblue |
Blackburn lol |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 12:47 - Feb 20 with 3281 views | JakeITFC |
Never understood Birmingham tbh - won nothing, shiithole ground (although one I do like going to), far and away the smallest team in their city/rivalry but go around like they are important for some reason. If you asked any Birmingham fan they would 100% say they are a bigger club than us and I just don't think it is true in any possible way. |  | | |
| "Big clubs" on 12:50 - Feb 20 with 3260 views | le2blue |
| "Big clubs" on 12:47 - Feb 20 by JakeITFC |
Never understood Birmingham tbh - won nothing, shiithole ground (although one I do like going to), far and away the smallest team in their city/rivalry but go around like they are important for some reason. If you asked any Birmingham fan they would 100% say they are a bigger club than us and I just don't think it is true in any possible way. |
They've won something more recently than we have, the League Cup in 2011.
But yes, agree they are a mid-size lower champ |  | | |
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| "Big clubs" on 13:09 - Feb 20 with 3183 views | SaffronWaldenBlues |
"Big clubs" in the UK are Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Celtic, Rangers, Manchester United and Manchester City in terms of global reach and appeal. Then you have a few clubs just under that, which are Newcastle, Everton, Leeds United, and Aston Villa who have still retained some of the global/national appeal despite falling off a bit here and there, then in terms of genuine sleeping giants it's Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday who were once massive and had supporters all over the country/world but less so these days.
Then you have a bracket of clubs we are in, which have a decent fanbase and history that bob about the leagues, largely winning f'all, but have had good runs at it, but their appeal is largely regional. Brum, Leicester, Pompey, Southampton, Sheffield United, Blackburn, West Brom, Ipswich, Norwich, Coventry, Wolves, Derby, Aberdeen, Hibbs, Hearts, Burnley, and the like fall into that group, despite their fans thinking they are big clubs, and at one time they were but times have moved on, Leicester is really the only one out of this group that has claims to any huge success recently, with Blackburn winning the Premier League and League Cup in the '90s and early 2000's too but the fanbase has evaporated, and Pompey winning the FA Cup. The rest of us have just bobbed up and down. |  |
| An East Anglian Town overtaken by Londoners |
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| "Big clubs" on 13:36 - Feb 20 with 3091 views | Churchman |
| "Big clubs" on 13:09 - Feb 20 by SaffronWaldenBlues |
"Big clubs" in the UK are Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Celtic, Rangers, Manchester United and Manchester City in terms of global reach and appeal. Then you have a few clubs just under that, which are Newcastle, Everton, Leeds United, and Aston Villa who have still retained some of the global/national appeal despite falling off a bit here and there, then in terms of genuine sleeping giants it's Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday who were once massive and had supporters all over the country/world but less so these days.
Then you have a bracket of clubs we are in, which have a decent fanbase and history that bob about the leagues, largely winning f'all, but have had good runs at it, but their appeal is largely regional. Brum, Leicester, Pompey, Southampton, Sheffield United, Blackburn, West Brom, Ipswich, Norwich, Coventry, Wolves, Derby, Aberdeen, Hibbs, Hearts, Burnley, and the like fall into that group, despite their fans thinking they are big clubs, and at one time they were but times have moved on, Leicester is really the only one out of this group that has claims to any huge success recently, with Blackburn winning the Premier League and League Cup in the '90s and early 2000's too but the fanbase has evaporated, and Pompey winning the FA Cup. The rest of us have just bobbed up and down. |
Interesting. Big clubs are defined for me by support, potential, history and money. The most important thing is that none of it matters. Your club is your club and the plastic glory brigade will never understand that a supporter of Chesterfield is just as passionate as a Newcastle or Liverpool supporter. There’s just fewer of them. No less important though.
Anyway, Chelsea were never in the same bracket as Spurs and Arsenal and Man City were just under Liverpool, MU, Spurs, Arsenal before the Arab money flood elevated them. One day Newcastle may join them thanks to the Saudi head choppers.
The Scottish clubs are not really in the discussion for me. So the top table is:
MU, MC, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea.
The nearly but not quites are Villa, Newcastle, Everton, Leeds. Potential to join them are Sunderland, not Wednesday.
Mid range: Ipswich, Sunlun, Weds, Derby, Scum, Forest, Saints, Leicester, Wolves, WBA, Pompey, SU, Cov, Brighton, M’boro, Flum, Stoke, Birmingham, Charlton, West H
Wannabes: Burnley (small catchment area), Brizzle City, B’burn, QPR, Watford, Cardiff, Swansea, Hull, Brentford, Huddersfield, Bolton
Forget it: Luton, Millwall, Preston, Oxford, Plymouth, Barnsley, Bradford City
No chance: the rest.
Discussion over. Thank you. [Post edited 20 Feb 13:40]
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| "Big clubs" on 13:36 - Feb 20 with 3094 views | Sharkey |
| "Big clubs" on 13:09 - Feb 20 by SaffronWaldenBlues |
"Big clubs" in the UK are Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Celtic, Rangers, Manchester United and Manchester City in terms of global reach and appeal. Then you have a few clubs just under that, which are Newcastle, Everton, Leeds United, and Aston Villa who have still retained some of the global/national appeal despite falling off a bit here and there, then in terms of genuine sleeping giants it's Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday who were once massive and had supporters all over the country/world but less so these days.
Then you have a bracket of clubs we are in, which have a decent fanbase and history that bob about the leagues, largely winning f'all, but have had good runs at it, but their appeal is largely regional. Brum, Leicester, Pompey, Southampton, Sheffield United, Blackburn, West Brom, Ipswich, Norwich, Coventry, Wolves, Derby, Aberdeen, Hibbs, Hearts, Burnley, and the like fall into that group, despite their fans thinking they are big clubs, and at one time they were but times have moved on, Leicester is really the only one out of this group that has claims to any huge success recently, with Blackburn winning the Premier League and League Cup in the '90s and early 2000's too but the fanbase has evaporated, and Pompey winning the FA Cup. The rest of us have just bobbed up and down. |
Personally, I think West Ham are a big club in termsof support. I say 'personally' just because I know so many people who support them, and they're mostly not from London or Essex, but such places as Cork, Carlisle, Karlskrona and Pembroke, amongst other places. I don't kniw nearly as many people who support ManU, Arsenal and Liverpool. Alan Devonshire is the namethat comes up most when I ask 'How come you're West Ham?' |  | | |
| "Big clubs" on 13:37 - Feb 20 with 3067 views | Trequartista |
It's all relative. |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 14:06 - Feb 20 with 2958 views | BasingstokeBlue |
| "Big clubs" on 13:37 - Feb 20 by Trequartista |
It's all relative. |
"It's all relative" - the budgies' club motto. |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 14:30 - Feb 20 with 2885 views | _clive_baker_ |
| "Big clubs" on 12:47 - Feb 20 by JakeITFC |
Never understood Birmingham tbh - won nothing, shiithole ground (although one I do like going to), far and away the smallest team in their city/rivalry but go around like they are important for some reason. If you asked any Birmingham fan they would 100% say they are a bigger club than us and I just don't think it is true in any possible way. |
I think its because they're called Birmingham City, and Birmingham is England's 2nd city. If they were called Bordesley Wanderers they wouldn't be considered any bigger a club than Charlton. |  | | |
| "Big clubs" on 14:53 - Feb 20 with 2826 views | SaffronWaldenBlues |
| "Big clubs" on 13:36 - Feb 20 by Churchman |
Interesting. Big clubs are defined for me by support, potential, history and money. The most important thing is that none of it matters. Your club is your club and the plastic glory brigade will never understand that a supporter of Chesterfield is just as passionate as a Newcastle or Liverpool supporter. There’s just fewer of them. No less important though.
Anyway, Chelsea were never in the same bracket as Spurs and Arsenal and Man City were just under Liverpool, MU, Spurs, Arsenal before the Arab money flood elevated them. One day Newcastle may join them thanks to the Saudi head choppers.
The Scottish clubs are not really in the discussion for me. So the top table is:
MU, MC, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea.
The nearly but not quites are Villa, Newcastle, Everton, Leeds. Potential to join them are Sunderland, not Wednesday.
Mid range: Ipswich, Sunlun, Weds, Derby, Scum, Forest, Saints, Leicester, Wolves, WBA, Pompey, SU, Cov, Brighton, M’boro, Flum, Stoke, Birmingham, Charlton, West H
Wannabes: Burnley (small catchment area), Brizzle City, B’burn, QPR, Watford, Cardiff, Swansea, Hull, Brentford, Huddersfield, Bolton
Forget it: Luton, Millwall, Preston, Oxford, Plymouth, Barnsley, Bradford City
No chance: the rest.
Discussion over. Thank you. [Post edited 20 Feb 13:40]
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Celtic and Rangers have massive followings worldwide though, Celtic's reach is particularly incredible.
Chelsea has entered the bracket of big club, and since the 1990's onwards they have become a global powerhouse, much like City did, when previously they were a successful club that bobbed about with a largely regional following. | |
| An East Anglian Town overtaken by Londoners |
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| "Big clubs" on 14:57 - Feb 20 with 2809 views | SaffronWaldenBlues |
| "Big clubs" on 13:36 - Feb 20 by Sharkey |
Personally, I think West Ham are a big club in termsof support. I say 'personally' just because I know so many people who support them, and they're mostly not from London or Essex, but such places as Cork, Carlisle, Karlskrona and Pembroke, amongst other places. I don't kniw nearly as many people who support ManU, Arsenal and Liverpool. Alan Devonshire is the namethat comes up most when I ask 'How come you're West Ham?' |
I'd put West Ham in the upper mid-range, they have a history, and a very large regional reach with most of the east end upping and moving here, but aren't quite global yet.
Most "casuals" support Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United, Spurs, and City these days, I don't encounter many West Ham fans who don't have a connection to London either by having lived there or family. | |
| An East Anglian Town overtaken by Londoners |
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| "Big clubs" on 16:43 - Feb 20 with 2638 views | Alberto_the_frog |
I think these "surprisingly big" clubs are ones that were once successful, have slid down the leagues, but still retain good levels of support considering where they are now.
I would never call Birmingham, Leicester , Blackburn or West Brom big, though, and haven't heard them described as such.
Portsmouth won the league in 1949 and 50 and the cup in 1939.
Their record attendance, from around that time, is over 50000.
Sheffield is considered the "home of football" and both United and Wednesday have long histories.
United won the league in the 1890s and had won the cup 4 times by the 1920s.
Record attendance over 68000.
Wednesday won the league in 1903 and 4 and 1920 and 30 as well as the cup 3 times. Record attendance over 72000.
Derby are founder members of the league, winning it twice in the 70s and the cup in 1946.
Record attendance over 41000. Currently the 3rd best supported championship side despite being in 22nd place.
(Attendance records courtesy of Wikipedia!) [Post edited 20 Feb 16:46]
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| "Big clubs" on 17:13 - Feb 20 with 2584 views | sjg |
Newcastle | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 17:36 - Feb 20 with 2501 views | NthQldITFC |
| "Big clubs" on 13:36 - Feb 20 by Churchman |
Interesting. Big clubs are defined for me by support, potential, history and money. The most important thing is that none of it matters. Your club is your club and the plastic glory brigade will never understand that a supporter of Chesterfield is just as passionate as a Newcastle or Liverpool supporter. There’s just fewer of them. No less important though.
Anyway, Chelsea were never in the same bracket as Spurs and Arsenal and Man City were just under Liverpool, MU, Spurs, Arsenal before the Arab money flood elevated them. One day Newcastle may join them thanks to the Saudi head choppers.
The Scottish clubs are not really in the discussion for me. So the top table is:
MU, MC, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea.
The nearly but not quites are Villa, Newcastle, Everton, Leeds. Potential to join them are Sunderland, not Wednesday.
Mid range: Ipswich, Sunlun, Weds, Derby, Scum, Forest, Saints, Leicester, Wolves, WBA, Pompey, SU, Cov, Brighton, M’boro, Flum, Stoke, Birmingham, Charlton, West H
Wannabes: Burnley (small catchment area), Brizzle City, B’burn, QPR, Watford, Cardiff, Swansea, Hull, Brentford, Huddersfield, Bolton
Forget it: Luton, Millwall, Preston, Oxford, Plymouth, Barnsley, Bradford City
No chance: the rest.
Discussion over. Thank you. [Post edited 20 Feb 13:40]
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Putting local bias aside, I don't really think Nodge deserve to be in the same bracket as us - perhaps close, perhaps not, but certainly not the same - by virtue of never having won anything worthwhile. One League Cup when it was semi-important (but still well below FA Cup level) and one when it was absolutely meaningless like the Zenish Data Systems Cup or the Pizza wassname Trophy for fourth division teams.
They do get reasonable crowds (mostly silent old fogies in blankets admittedly) but they have no gravitas whatsoever as a club: no history, no knighted managers, no major trophies, no English Champions, no Champions of Europe - they're seen nationally as a nothing club, and a bit of a yo-yo, Delia and Mike Bassett perpetual joke. And they have an ugly, pissy little hodge-podge of a ground. And they smell.
They're at a Luton or a Watford or a Huddersfield level really, to anyone outside of East Anglia. |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 17:39 - Feb 20 with 2487 views | MK1 |
I would say that 9 of the current PL are not big clubs.
Fulham, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Brentford, Brighton, Wolves, Ipswich, Leicester & Southampton.
I would only class Leeds in the Championship as a big club.
The 9 I listed from the PL I would put in the same bracket as Sheffield's 2, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Coventry, Norwich, Blackburn, WBA, Stoke & Derby.
Birmingham & Bolton from L1 could also be in that mix.
After that you could argue for and against the rest being in the 3rd tier.
So, I would say that there are 12 big clubs in England and 21 who are on the cusp. |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 18:10 - Feb 20 with 2447 views | Smoresy |
I didn't know these clubs were all deemed that, but as others point out, it isn't delusional from a national perspective, if we include all clubs in the country. Where does "big" fall on the scale of adjectives? They're all delusional if they believe they have a case to make a top 10 list. Above everyone in that list surely must be:
Man Utd
Liverpool
Arsenal
gap
Chelsea
Man City
gap
Tottenham
Everton
Newcastle
Aston Villa
gap
Leeds
Sunderland
West Ham*
gap
At this point average historical attendances drop from 26K to 21K. That's a big drop. Imagine a tug o' war over the decades with that imbalance. No club has the trophy cabinet or sustained success to bridge it IMO. Some have the recent success but we know how fleeting that can be.
There are maybe twenty clubs with average all-time attendances between 16K and 21K. Plenty in this category hold ancient silverware; one has waited all its history to finally taste silverware in the past decade; a few boast European glory; some know Europe well; a few have no decent honours to speak of; some have spent the majority of their lives in the top flight. Are there enough adjectives to be separating the biggest of these clubs, perhaps Wolves, from the median, perhaps Southampton, from the smallest, perhaps Portsmouth, without losing perspective of where they sit in the grand scheme?
Not in my vocabulary, so I consider them all medium. I'd consider them all big if I grew up breathing L1 or L2 football, such is the way with perspective. I see Brighton as medium sized too because they've clearly caught up, with a healthy catchment area. Similarly Bristol City for the growth that club's seen, near the very bottom of the category. I draw the line at Millwall.
*West Ham don't merit this placing from a trophy perspective, to be sure, but they're also one of a small list of clubs to have never never dropped below Div 2, and are now set for 50K+ crowds for years to come. | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 19:33 - Feb 20 with 2360 views | MK1 |
| "Big clubs" on 18:10 - Feb 20 by Smoresy |
I didn't know these clubs were all deemed that, but as others point out, it isn't delusional from a national perspective, if we include all clubs in the country. Where does "big" fall on the scale of adjectives? They're all delusional if they believe they have a case to make a top 10 list. Above everyone in that list surely must be:
Man Utd
Liverpool
Arsenal
gap
Chelsea
Man City
gap
Tottenham
Everton
Newcastle
Aston Villa
gap
Leeds
Sunderland
West Ham*
gap
At this point average historical attendances drop from 26K to 21K. That's a big drop. Imagine a tug o' war over the decades with that imbalance. No club has the trophy cabinet or sustained success to bridge it IMO. Some have the recent success but we know how fleeting that can be.
There are maybe twenty clubs with average all-time attendances between 16K and 21K. Plenty in this category hold ancient silverware; one has waited all its history to finally taste silverware in the past decade; a few boast European glory; some know Europe well; a few have no decent honours to speak of; some have spent the majority of their lives in the top flight. Are there enough adjectives to be separating the biggest of these clubs, perhaps Wolves, from the median, perhaps Southampton, from the smallest, perhaps Portsmouth, without losing perspective of where they sit in the grand scheme?
Not in my vocabulary, so I consider them all medium. I'd consider them all big if I grew up breathing L1 or L2 football, such is the way with perspective. I see Brighton as medium sized too because they've clearly caught up, with a healthy catchment area. Similarly Bristol City for the growth that club's seen, near the very bottom of the category. I draw the line at Millwall.
*West Ham don't merit this placing from a trophy perspective, to be sure, but they're also one of a small list of clubs to have never never dropped below Div 2, and are now set for 50K+ crowds for years to come. |
Why are Sunderland in there? They are no bigger than Sheff. Weds. | |
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| "Big clubs" on 19:38 - Feb 20 with 2339 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Big clubs" on 19:33 - Feb 20 by MK1 |
Why are Sunderland in there? They are no bigger than Sheff. Weds. |
I see Sunderland as a big club. It depends how one defines it of course, but their average attendance is near 40k. And their fans are madly passionate, etc.
Not won anything of note lately though, so if you’re going by that yardstick then, no, they’re not. They’re small fry compared to us on honours. |  |
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| "Big clubs" on 20:57 - Feb 20 with 2232 views | sjg |
| "Big clubs" on 18:10 - Feb 20 by Smoresy |
I didn't know these clubs were all deemed that, but as others point out, it isn't delusional from a national perspective, if we include all clubs in the country. Where does "big" fall on the scale of adjectives? They're all delusional if they believe they have a case to make a top 10 list. Above everyone in that list surely must be:
Man Utd
Liverpool
Arsenal
gap
Chelsea
Man City
gap
Tottenham
Everton
Newcastle
Aston Villa
gap
Leeds
Sunderland
West Ham*
gap
At this point average historical attendances drop from 26K to 21K. That's a big drop. Imagine a tug o' war over the decades with that imbalance. No club has the trophy cabinet or sustained success to bridge it IMO. Some have the recent success but we know how fleeting that can be.
There are maybe twenty clubs with average all-time attendances between 16K and 21K. Plenty in this category hold ancient silverware; one has waited all its history to finally taste silverware in the past decade; a few boast European glory; some know Europe well; a few have no decent honours to speak of; some have spent the majority of their lives in the top flight. Are there enough adjectives to be separating the biggest of these clubs, perhaps Wolves, from the median, perhaps Southampton, from the smallest, perhaps Portsmouth, without losing perspective of where they sit in the grand scheme?
Not in my vocabulary, so I consider them all medium. I'd consider them all big if I grew up breathing L1 or L2 football, such is the way with perspective. I see Brighton as medium sized too because they've clearly caught up, with a healthy catchment area. Similarly Bristol City for the growth that club's seen, near the very bottom of the category. I draw the line at Millwall.
*West Ham don't merit this placing from a trophy perspective, to be sure, but they're also one of a small list of clubs to have never never dropped below Div 2, and are now set for 50K+ crowds for years to come. |
Newcastle same level as Everton and Villa? | | | |
| "Big clubs" on 21:55 - Feb 20 with 2137 views | HighgateBlue |
| "Big clubs" on 12:50 - Feb 20 by le2blue |
They've won something more recently than we have, the League Cup in 2011.
But yes, agree they are a mid-size lower champ |
Let's not go down that road - Norwich won the thing in 1985!  |  | | |
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