Forum | We have to recruit beyond these shores by cbower

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We have to recruit beyond these shores 18:12 - Mar 9 with 3335 views

Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford, Palace have all picked up powerful, physical and talented players in the European, South American and African markets for significantly lower fees than we paid for several players this season. It really is the next thing the club needs to look at for me.

bluescouser

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:19 - Mar 9 with 2979 views

NeedhamChris

The biggest failing didn't actually happen this season. It happened last season when seemingly no contingency was put in place for life without Jamestown Analytics.

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We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:19 - Mar 9 with 2966 views

Scuzzer

Not if we are in the Championship next season.

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We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:22 - Mar 9 with 2956 views

StNeotsBlue

I don't disagree but it isn't McKenna's way, unless they speak English fluently. Although he has broken his own rule to land Enciso.

[Post edited 9 Mar 18:23]

-1

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:30 - Mar 9 with 2904 views

LankHenners

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:22 - Mar 9 by StNeotsBlue
I don't disagree but it isn't McKenna's way, unless they speak English fluently. Although he has broken his own rule to land Enciso. [Post edited 9 Mar 18:23]

McKenna's publicly said we need to improve and expand the scouting network to include overseas markets but it's not as quick or simple as fans like to make out sometimes.

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We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:33 - Mar 9 with 2879 views

MattinLondon

On paper at least, on the pitch we are a PL team. Off it, we’re probably mud-Championship. Takes time to improve training facilities and scouting networks etc.

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:36 - Mar 9 with 2864 views

Churchman

Three years ago we had no club infrastructure to speak of. Hollowed out. We’ve kind of outgrown ourselves in certain respects - we didn’t have a scouting network in this country let alone elsewhere. We are where we are because of it.

You are right about players from abroad and we do need to put in place whatever structures you need to find and recruit players in future. Should things go our way and we do well next season (assuming this one is done) I hope we have more space and time to develop that.

I fully understand why they couldn’t this season and why McKenna likes U.K./Ireland players. But players from abroad is something we should explore. It won’t be the first time!

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:44 - Mar 9 with 2797 views

StNeotsBlue

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:30 - Mar 9 by LankHenners
McKenna's publicly said we need to improve and expand the scouting network to include overseas markets but it's not as quick or simple as fans like to make out sometimes.

Of course not, but he has also repeatedly said about the importance of them having a good grasp of English.

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:51 - Mar 9 with 2754 views

gtsb1966

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:19 - Mar 9 by Scuzzer
Not if we are in the Championship next season.

When

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:10 - Mar 9 with 2687 views

Swansea_Blue

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:19 - Mar 9 by NeedhamChris
The biggest failing didn't actually happen this season. It happened last season when seemingly no contingency was put in place for life without Jamestown Analytics.

That’s passed me by. What’s the story around all of that?

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We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:23 - Mar 9 with 2658 views

pointofblue

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:10 - Mar 9 by Swansea_Blue
That’s passed me by. What’s the story around all of that?

IIRC a lot of our transfers prior to last summer, Jamestown Analytics were involved in our 'scouting' for transfers. However, it's run by Tony Bloom, owner of Brighton and, when we became direct competitors, we either had to withdraw from using them or, understandably, Bloom wasn't quite so willing to share the data.

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We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:27 - Mar 9 with 2622 views

Swansea_Blue

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:23 - Mar 9 by pointofblue
IIRC a lot of our transfers prior to last summer, Jamestown Analytics were involved in our 'scouting' for transfers. However, it's run by Tony Bloom, owner of Brighton and, when we became direct competitors, we either had to withdraw from using them or, understandably, Bloom wasn't quite so willing to share the data.

Thanks for that. There are a few of these around, so you’d assume we had a backup plan, but it sounds like maybe we didn’t?

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Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:30 - Mar 9 with 2607 views

NeedhamChris

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:27 - Mar 9 by Swansea_Blue
Thanks for that. There are a few of these around, so you’d assume we had a backup plan, but it sounds like maybe we didn’t?

Tbf that's my assertion not anything proven. Either that or whatever contingency we did have hasn't been as successful.

It does feel like recruitment hasn't been at the same level this year.

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We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:33 - Mar 9 with 2582 views

bournemouthblue

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:30 - Mar 9 by NeedhamChris
Tbf that's my assertion not anything proven. Either that or whatever contingency we did have hasn't been as successful. It does feel like recruitment hasn't been at the same level this year.

Obviously it's going to spot on next season in the Championship

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We have to recruit beyond these shores on 20:08 - Mar 9 with 2377 views

Axeldalai_lama

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:30 - Mar 9 by NeedhamChris
Tbf that's my assertion not anything proven. Either that or whatever contingency we did have hasn't been as successful. It does feel like recruitment hasn't been at the same level this year.

Is it that recruitment has been lesser or that premier league is far far far more difficult to recruit for? The same difference I suppose, but not the same perspective. Failing to recruit the 1% perfect chance players for the premier league isn't a damning failure, it's an expected one.

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 07:55 - Mar 10 with 1902 views

Hipsterectomy

We barely had a scouting network in this country. Half our signings were players McCarthy was mates with or had managed before. We even had Kevin Bru asking if his mate Larsen Toure could come for a trial and gave him a years deal

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(No subject) (n/t) on 08:15 - Mar 10 with 1866 views

ITFCSG

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 18:22 - Mar 9 by StNeotsBlue
I don't disagree but it isn't McKenna's way, unless they speak English fluently. Although he has broken his own rule to land Enciso. [Post edited 9 Mar 18:23]

[Post edited 10 Mar 8:20]

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 08:35 - Mar 10 with 1804 views

itfcjoe

But we also have to remember that these players also take a year or so to settle and get up to speed with PL football, as a lot of Championship recruits also do/have done.

Ultimately, unless you have a squad of PL hardened players, which can only happen in time - then recruitment is very difficult because anyone within your range are going to be both an 8 figure signing so will need to play, but also not PL experienced and in most cases will take time to get up to speed.

It really is threading the eye of a needle - a few players have done it like Liam Delap here, but even when you look at Adam Wharton and Morgan Rogers who have also settled like snow in the PL they have gone into highly functioning PL teams surrounded by massive experience, and been able to drop in and out of the team when needed.

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(No subject) (n/t) on 08:35 - Mar 10 with 1802 views

ITFCSG

(No subject) (n/t) on 08:15 - Mar 10 by ITFCSG
[Post edited 10 Mar 8:20]

Well, Enciso was at Brighton for a period of time so that doesn't really count. He has experienced life in the UK.

What I (and the OP probably) meant was recruitment directly from abroad. From clubs in Europe, S and Central America and Asia. Many Championship teams with no recent PL history such as Boro, Blackburn, Coventry and even PNE have arguable better developed overseas networks and recruitment than us.

If our overseas scouting network is weak then I have nothing to say except that it is imperative to build it up asap.

BUT if it is McK's unwillingness / preference NOT to recruit non-English speakers or players that did not go through the English systems or from non-English clubs (re The Sun dossier) then we have a big problem that needs to be addressed.

I pointed this out a long time ago and was routinely crucified by many who thought any criticism towards McK was blasphemy.

There is no point (both financially and on the pitch) paying for overpriced young British talent who are not fit for purpose to plug and play in the PL. That is the reason why players like Delap, Hutchinson and Philogene were farmed out on loan to Champ clubs instead of starting for their parent club in the PL.

We aren't playing in the U21 league and we cannot afford the likes of top homegrown talent such as Foden and Rice so the only way is abroad. Look at all the other PL sides, how many of their starting XI were recruited locally or are British players?

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 09:02 - Mar 10 with 1709 views

Bellevue_Blue

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 19:30 - Mar 9 by NeedhamChris
Tbf that's my assertion not anything proven. Either that or whatever contingency we did have hasn't been as successful. It does feel like recruitment hasn't been at the same level this year.

Has 'the recruitment not been at the same level this year' or has the level just risen to a point where its basically impossible to be as successful as previous years and the margin for error is far smaller?

They will of course had other data partners (like the GK one) but IMO Ashton and co are victims of their own success because this year's recruitment was always going to be a real challenge as they sought a combination of long-term sustainability vs short-term competitiveness.

(No subject) (n/t) on 09:20 - Mar 10 with 1678 views

Bellevue_Blue

(No subject) (n/t) on 08:35 - Mar 10 by ITFCSG

I think McK's unwillingness / preference not to recruit non-English speakers or players that did not go through the English systems was much more about trying to retain team spirit and connection to the previous two seasons.

There certainly needs to be a balance and the likes of Boro/ Coventry would have far better infrastructure than us as well as the money to take risks given the sales they have made over the last 3-5 years.

It will come I'm sure but this season it was a little bit of a catch 22. Had we signed a whole load of international players and bombed, everyone would have been up in arms asking why we were taking risks on players who are not tested and wont want to play in the championship etc.

It was the right combination of long term vs short term I think, however only Cajuste worked in the short term and not enough bridged the gap between the two.

No shame in that and hopefully this season's recruitment policy gives us a really good shot to get up again next year and spend more on being competitive in the PL.

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 09:21 - Mar 10 with 1675 views

Axeldalai_lama

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 08:35 - Mar 10 by itfcjoe

Absolutely spot on. It's so easy to cherry pick individuals that 'worked' from abroad, but I'd like to see people come up with examples as you describe, that we'd actually need this last season. Players who have come in from abroad, gone straight in to a new developing team that is itself massively adapting to it's own new surroundings, instantly improve it and didn't cost the earth or require competing with other prem teams for.
There are occasionally some bargains to be had, but the idea we're just getting it 'wrong' and it's just a simple case of buying a couple of foreign players like X did is simplistic and pretty silly ultimately.

We have to recruit beyond these shores on 09:55 - Mar 10 with 1590 views

SaffronWaldenBlues

We have to recruit beyond the Championship.