| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing 07:48 - Mar 19 with 4028 views | Nutkins_Return |
There have been a lot of posts recently around Woolfy and Burgess and plenty suggesting we should have stuck with them. "Burgess better than Greaves" and Woolf should be playing every week. We also had stuff on Hladky should have stayed when Muric was in goal.
Completely appreciating defensively we have certainly had a right challenge this season I don't understand for one minute how people can logically come to the conclusion last seasons defence would have been better. We went up but defensively we had a challenge last season and anyone can see how mire difficult the prem is.
We conceded 57 goals last season. If you go back through previous champ tables teams that get promoted are typically shipping in up to about 40 goals with a few low 40 exceptions. First and second going up with low 30s in several cases. 57 goals was quite freakish to concede and go up. McKenna knew this and HAD to upgrade.
O'shea and Greaves are better players and will have better careers but it was a big ask for them this season. |  |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:28 - Mar 19 with 2802 views | WeirdFishes |
Do you honestly think, watching Greaves, he is better than Cameron Burgess? I just refuse to accept it. |  |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:37 - Mar 19 with 2749 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:28 - Mar 19 by WeirdFishes |
Do you honestly think, watching Greaves, he is better than Cameron Burgess? I just refuse to accept it. |
Greaves was responsible for 3 first half goals last time out. | | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:42 - Mar 19 with 2730 views | OldFart71 |
Truthfully I have a confession and an apology to make. I didn't believe Wolfenden was good enough for the Premier League. I was wrong and he has performed very well. It is all very well saying we haven't been good enough in defence, but like all areas of the pitch due to so many changes it has had an adverse effect on performances. It's o,k, saying what are they doing on the training ground but it's a totally different situation on match days. The players in reality are playing against players of in the main, much better quality so that scenario can't be replicated on the training ground. | | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:49 - Mar 19 with 2698 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
I certainly wont be giving up on Greaves. We have seen through this season, pre his injury, that he has a lot of good attributes and he is more than capable in the championship as his performances for Hull showed us.
That being said he has had a rough few weeks, obviously struggled vs Forest, thought he had a difficult game vs Nkeitah at Palace and also struggled at United. I don't think Burgess is much better tbh but think giving him a couple of games and resting Greaves cant do too much harm. |  |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:49 - Mar 19 with 2690 views | stonojnr |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:37 - Mar 19 by redrickstuhaart |
Greaves was responsible for 3 first half goals last time out. |
Wasn't solely responsible and I wouldn't have said Burgess really steadied the back line.Forest were 3 up they didn't need to attack, when they did we always looked like conceeding | | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:52 - Mar 19 with 2685 views | _clive_baker_ |
Greaves had a big price tag, but he’d never played in the premier league either until this season, so he’s no less of a ‘champ defender’ himself. |  | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:53 - Mar 19 with 2676 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:49 - Mar 19 by stonojnr |
Wasn't solely responsible and I wouldn't have said Burgess really steadied the back line.Forest were 3 up they didn't need to attack, when they did we always looked like conceeding |
Primarily responsible.
So much so he was subbed.
He has never actually earned his return to the side following injury. | | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 09:02 - Mar 19 with 2641 views | davblue |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:49 - Mar 19 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
I certainly wont be giving up on Greaves. We have seen through this season, pre his injury, that he has a lot of good attributes and he is more than capable in the championship as his performances for Hull showed us.
That being said he has had a rough few weeks, obviously struggled vs Forest, thought he had a difficult game vs Nkeitah at Palace and also struggled at United. I don't think Burgess is much better tbh but think giving him a couple of games and resting Greaves cant do too much harm. |
Yeah remember Burgess didn’t really get going until 14/15 months into McKenna’s reign. [Post edited 19 Mar 9:02]
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 09:04 - Mar 19 with 2608 views | Swansea_Blue |
It’s not just about the players though. I could easily see Woolfy and/or Burgess in a team that concedes few goals. But that wasn’t our priority last yer, with Leif and to a lesser degree whoever was at RB seen very much as attacking outlets. Drop Woolf or Burgess into Burnley’s team this year and I reckon they’d look at home. |  |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 09:12 - Mar 19 with 2544 views | franz_tyson |
Whilst the defenders need to improve... its not just all on them. Think I'd start an inquest in central midfield first. We've been lacking in all parts of the pitch and the only one who's exceeded expectations is Delap. | | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 09:21 - Mar 19 with 2507 views | LankHenners |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:49 - Mar 19 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
I certainly wont be giving up on Greaves. We have seen through this season, pre his injury, that he has a lot of good attributes and he is more than capable in the championship as his performances for Hull showed us.
That being said he has had a rough few weeks, obviously struggled vs Forest, thought he had a difficult game vs Nkeitah at Palace and also struggled at United. I don't think Burgess is much better tbh but think giving him a couple of games and resting Greaves cant do too much harm. |
He's not alone in this by any means but think he's someone who's playing on really low confidence at the moment. Looks like he's afraid of making a mistake every time the ball comes near him.
We had a thing a few years ago where we were really struggling to score and the defence looked very nervy because they knew if they conceded it was going to be really tough for the attack to score twice to win the game. Wouldn't be surprised at all if there's a similar thing happening now - would explain why it looks like we have the weight of the world on our shoulders once we go a goal down. |  |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 09:38 - Mar 19 with 2420 views | hoppy |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:53 - Mar 19 by redrickstuhaart |
Primarily responsible.
So much so he was subbed.
He has never actually earned his return to the side following injury. |
Up to his injury at the start of the season was looking a very good acquisition- even getting MoM in the season opener against Liverpool and some decent performances following that. Since that injury after the West Ham game for whatever reason hasn’t seemed as assured and making the kind of errors that saw him withdrawn at half time against Forest. |  |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 09:44 - Mar 19 with 2391 views | TractorJack |
I think the problem applies all over the pitch in that the 'upgrades' haven't been substantial enough. We can argue about which CBs should be playing but the reality is all of them are inconsistent and prone to the odd error at this level. |  | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 09:49 - Mar 19 with 2365 views | nodge_blue |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:28 - Mar 19 by WeirdFishes |
Do you honestly think, watching Greaves, he is better than Cameron Burgess? I just refuse to accept it. |
At premiership level I don't think Burgess is good enough in possession, He is too slow on the ball and often his short passes and touch under pressure isn't good enough.
He may be as good as defending as Greaves though. |  |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 09:54 - Mar 19 with 2338 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:28 - Mar 19 by WeirdFishes |
Do you honestly think, watching Greaves, he is better than Cameron Burgess? I just refuse to accept it. |
Yes, absolutely I think he's a better CB then Burgess. Burgess proved to be a capable CB for us and has some great qualities particularly in the air. No slight on Burgess who I like.
Greaves for me was the outstanding CB in the champ last year. He performed better than. Both our CBs last season over the course of the season (again nothing against ours per se but he was outstanding).
Do I think Greaves is on top of his game now or had a good game last time out. Absolutely not. Long term do I think he will be better. Yes. he is very young in CB terms. As someone else said Burgess had a real struggle when he joined us himself. Lost his place and people slating him. He proved them wrong. Greaves will do the same just a level up. | |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:05 - Mar 19 with 2306 views | SaffronWaldenBlues |
Wolfenden and Burgess have played well in the Premier League and have made no more mistakes than Greaves and O'Shea who we paid a small fortune for. They actually work as a partnership and communicate far better. Greaves has potential going forward to be better, but O'Shea isn't better than any of them. Both were way overpriced for what are run-of-the-mill Championship defenders, which is what we had already.
We needed better than we had, but we didn't get it. |  |
| An East Anglian Town overtaken by Londoners |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:08 - Mar 19 with 2294 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
If you are classifying Woolfenden and Burgess as Championship defenders, then surely you have to class Greaves as a Championship defender?? |  |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:09 - Mar 19 with 2286 views | gsoly |
There's also the factor of these new CBs being brought in and reducing the burden, pressure and fatigue upon Woolfy and Burgess. When both have played this season, they'll have had minimal pressure and will have been fresh compared to playing week-in-week-out. |  | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:37 - Mar 19 with 2193 views | BlueOura |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 08:37 - Mar 19 by redrickstuhaart |
Greaves was responsible for 3 first half goals last time out. |
Would genuinley love to know how you think he was at fault for the first Forest goal?
I'm not a fan of Greaves recent performances and his contribution to the 3rd goal was awful, but to make him soley responsible for all three goals is extremely harsh. |  | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:44 - Mar 19 with 2166 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 09:21 - Mar 19 by LankHenners |
He's not alone in this by any means but think he's someone who's playing on really low confidence at the moment. Looks like he's afraid of making a mistake every time the ball comes near him.
We had a thing a few years ago where we were really struggling to score and the defence looked very nervy because they knew if they conceded it was going to be really tough for the attack to score twice to win the game. Wouldn't be surprised at all if there's a similar thing happening now - would explain why it looks like we have the weight of the world on our shoulders once we go a goal down. |
I think that is a fair assessment.
I feel like when the ball is dropping out the sky he seems really reluctant to go and win it when that means challenging a player. Id love him to use his size and just go through the opposition striker. Go win the ball. But as you say he always seem to be caught in between minds. I think Woolfy was similar last season tbh. He had a good season overall but gave up a few goals by not really going to in to win a ball.
Greaves is only 24 though we mustn't forget. Really young for a centre half making his prem debut. He will improve I'm sure. | |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:50 - Mar 19 with 2128 views | tractorshark |
Greaves and Woolfenden were both awful last Saturday. Wrong decisions, out of position, reacting rather than anticipating.
I said before the game that Burgess should have played (along with Broadhead for that matter).
But our defending is a little more complex than just berating the 4 or 5 at the back.
We give the ball away so cheaply in the opposition half that we are always likely to get caught.
I hate the word Transition but we are very guilty of making poor passes or being knocked off the ball easily in the final third and that allows the opponents to break quickly. And their proven Premier League quality is often better than ours.
It hurts us particularly at home, where we're more willing to attack. Davis pushes forward and our CDMs both tend to support the attacks which leaves us open to being 3 on 3.
It's slightly better when Tuanzebe is in the side because he reads the game so well and covers.
But Philogene is not a wing-back at this level in a million years. Yes he tracks back but he has no physical presence and, as a winger, I'm struggling to recall one instance of trickery that has seen him go past a player.
As I say, you can criticise the defenders and rightly so but if Hutchinson, Delap, Jack Clarke and Philogene are just giving away possession at the other end, we will always be prone to being picked off.
As someone wrote on a thread this week, we didn't play that badly against Forest apart from the four goals.
That pretty much sums up the gap between the Prem and the Championship. | | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:52 - Mar 19 with 2115 views | MK1 |
If we keep at least 3 of the 4 mentioned, then we have a much stronger defence next season. This seasons experience will have helped them massively. As for this season, I think only Burgess could get into a mid table squad. Woolfy and Burgess are great. Greaves and O'Shea will only get better. Those 4 next season and hopefully the season back in the PL will see us in a very strong position defensively. If we can keep those 4 together, the future 2 or 3 seasons look ok to me. |  |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:59 - Mar 19 with 2069 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:50 - Mar 19 by tractorshark |
Greaves and Woolfenden were both awful last Saturday. Wrong decisions, out of position, reacting rather than anticipating.
I said before the game that Burgess should have played (along with Broadhead for that matter).
But our defending is a little more complex than just berating the 4 or 5 at the back.
We give the ball away so cheaply in the opposition half that we are always likely to get caught.
I hate the word Transition but we are very guilty of making poor passes or being knocked off the ball easily in the final third and that allows the opponents to break quickly. And their proven Premier League quality is often better than ours.
It hurts us particularly at home, where we're more willing to attack. Davis pushes forward and our CDMs both tend to support the attacks which leaves us open to being 3 on 3.
It's slightly better when Tuanzebe is in the side because he reads the game so well and covers.
But Philogene is not a wing-back at this level in a million years. Yes he tracks back but he has no physical presence and, as a winger, I'm struggling to recall one instance of trickery that has seen him go past a player.
As I say, you can criticise the defenders and rightly so but if Hutchinson, Delap, Jack Clarke and Philogene are just giving away possession at the other end, we will always be prone to being picked off.
As someone wrote on a thread this week, we didn't play that badly against Forest apart from the four goals.
That pretty much sums up the gap between the Prem and the Championship. |
I know it is a separate issue, but I really don't understand this clamour for Broadhead. He gives you absolutely nothing off the ball. Clarke should have that position and should be playing it every week imo. I think he has the highest ceiling and was already improving before a bad game at Palace. | |
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| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 11:00 - Mar 19 with 2060 views | longtimefan |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:37 - Mar 19 by BlueOura |
Would genuinley love to know how you think he was at fault for the first Forest goal?
I'm not a fan of Greaves recent performances and his contribution to the 3rd goal was awful, but to make him soley responsible for all three goals is extremely harsh. |
Indeed. Greaves probably clears the ball properly if Delap doesn't get the touch that provides a perfect setup for Forest. | | | |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 11:02 - Mar 19 with 2049 views | MK1 |
| Keep hearing our champ defenders should be playing on 10:59 - Mar 19 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
I know it is a separate issue, but I really don't understand this clamour for Broadhead. He gives you absolutely nothing off the ball. Clarke should have that position and should be playing it every week imo. I think he has the highest ceiling and was already improving before a bad game at Palace. |
I agree. Broadhead will improve with the experience, but Clarke has to be the starter for next season. | |
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