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I see the rise of Tate and Peterson and the impact they are having on young men and what masculinity looks like and it scares me, this is before I even watch adolescence.
One of the things that I'm conscious of is that there are very few male role models who counter the things that they say and fewer still that will appeal to young lads of today, Louis Threoux for example, a great advocate but how many 14, 15 year old lads know who is he is, let alone listen to him?
I think about who I looked up to as a teenager and who current teenagers might listen too and I keep comming back to footballers.
I see very little on this from clubs, filled with male role models and I feel that they would be a great staring point for trying to redress some of the bile that is spewed by such people.
This might sound pie in the sky but I think there had ro be a beginning, and I think with our club, the community and the work that goes into that, it would seem as good a place as any. Maybe I'm old and out of touch (well i am) but if I was a teenage lad and Liam Delap, Omari or someone was on socials and other places speaking about how wrong this view is id take notice.
I'm inclined to email the club and ask them if they can do some messaging around the subject, partner with suitable charities and maybe from there more would follow.
Anyone have any idea who is best to email?
I appreciate I might be on a wild goose chase here but from those I know in teaching or similar roles working with young lads I really feel that is becoming more and more or anything issue with not enough push back on the narrative from those that might be listened to.
Any suggestions as to anyone I can try contacting at the club are much appreciated.
A lot of football clubs (including Man City if memory serves) started out from the lads club movement of Victorian Britain. While there might have been a mix of social conscience and religion at the heart of it, society is far more atomised and individual than ever before perhaps.
I also notice a lot of clubs in Europe are much more than just football, but combine basketball, boxing, wrestling , handball or whatever too. What’s filled the gap in some communities are neo Nazi “fight clubs” styled on the current mix of toxic sh1te and recruitment.
Perhaps it’s too old fashioned to try and rekindle the lads clubs etc. but for very young kids at least a safe hub in communities can be absolutely vital. The biggest issue is money, expertise and the hassle that comes with it.
One thing that made adolescence so chilling was that the parents didn’t just do nothing wrong, they almost did nothing at all. By not checking up on kids, for whatever barriers that’s where this sort of evil slips in. I’m not sure what the club can do to be honest or any community leaders. Getting kids involved with things like #iwill in Ipswich might work?
It’s an area that since lockdown has become so difficult to manage in schools for lots of different reasons. I see a lot of people make out it’s a race issue, maybe a class issue, but I think those are at best secondary factors. What you might get more mileage with from the club is connections with groups and individuals who can work with yourself, and others.
I really don't think it's right to lump Peterson in with the likes of Tate on this issue.
Peterson's message to young men like that is "shape up, develop yourself, be better, become someone worthy of a relationship"
I was watching some vids of an Irish academic, one of the leading experts on Incel culture, he advises the government. He's doing a lot of interview rounds at the moment given the attention this is getting. He said the same himself, in fact reckoned Peterson had changed his life for the better.
Edit - for example see this link where he discusses Adolescence
[Post edited 1 Apr 9:16]
Peterson is a two bit hack who gives a veneer of credibility to these ideas because he’s an academic. Rogan giving him a massive platform was the worst possible thing.
Apart from repackaging stoicism in his own infantilised way, pretending it’s rooted in a weird mix of Christianity and “trad west” values all make his particular brand of self help easier to swallow for his target audience.
I don’t think he’s a fraud, I believe he believes what he says, or at least a lot of it, but he has used to his platform to enable and legitimise a lot of sh1tty views and people for his own benefit too. He’s definitely shaped himself to chase the cash, a bit like Russell Brand tried for do.
When he was being trumpeted on here, the people doing he could only really assert his credentials and reputation not his value. Being encouraged to make your bed isn’t inherently evil, and it might help people but when it’s entangled in his arrogant misogyny and right wing ideology it’s not much of a defence or justification.
This concerning Adolescence shows how awful some on the right are these days.
Badenoch gives credence to race-swap conspiracy theory about Adolescence (which she hasn't watched)
Kemi Badenoch has given credence to a conspiracy theory about the Netflix hit Adolescence being based on a real story, but involving a black boy not a white boy.
This has been described as wholly untrue by Jack Thorne, the writer and co-creator of the series, which has been praised by Keir Starmer for the way it has opened up a debate about the radicalisation of young men.
Starmer met Thorne, and some of the shows other creators, in Downing Street this week, along with charities engaged in child protection, and the PM said he would like as many pupils as possible to watch the series.
The four-part drama is about a 13-year-old boy arrested for the murder of a girl at his school. The Guardian’s reviewer described it as “the most devastating and immaculately scripted and played series I have ever seen – as close to televisual perfection as you can get”.
In an interview with GB News, asked if she has seen it, Badenoch replied:
Well, I think Adolescence is a fictional story. It’s based on a real story, but my understanding is that the boy who committed that crime was not white.
So, people can do whatever they like in fiction. The prime minister should not be building policy on fiction. He should be building policy on reality. What is the reality? Phones are disrupting schools and not enough schools have effective bans.
Badenoch went on to talk about the Tory policy to ban mobile phones in schools. In an earlier LBC interview this morning she said that she had not actually watched the programme, because “I don’t have time to watch anything these days, to be honest.”
Speaking to LBC, Badenoch also stated her belief that Adolescence was based on a true story. She said:
The story which it is based on has been fundamentally changed and so creating policy on a work of fiction rather than on reality is the real issue.
But, in an interview last week on the News Agents podcast, Thorne said there was no truth in the claim that he had adapted a real story involving a black boy. He said:
They’ve claimed that Stephen [Graham] and I based it on a story and so they’re saying that we race swapped it, because we were basically here and then ended up there, and everything else, and nothing is further from the truth.
I have told a lot of real-life stories in my time. I know the harm that can come when you take elements of a real-life story, and you put it on screen, and the people aren’t expecting it. There is no part of this that’s based on a true story, not one single part.
Asked about critics who complained about the main character being white, Thorne said:
It’s absurd to say that this is only committed by black boys, it’s absurd, it’s not true. And history shows a lot of cases of kids from all races committing these crimes.
We’re not making a point about race with this. We are making a point about masculinity. We’re trying to get inside a problem. We’re not saying this is one thing or another. We’re saying this is about boys.
The claim that Adolescence was based on a real story involving a black boy has been circulated on social media, including by people claiming that the colour of the main character was changed to conform with an anti-white agenda.
Ian Miles Cheong, a prominent rightwing commentator on X, floated this argument last month in a post that has attracted 4.8m views saying:
Netflix has a show called Adolescence that’s about a British knife killer who stabbed a girl to death on a bus and it’s based on real life cases such as the Southport murderer.
So guess what. They race swapped the actual killer from a black man/migrant to a white boy and the story has it so he was radicalized online by the red pill movement.
Just the absolute state of anti-white propaganda.
This attracted a comment from Elon Musk, the X owner, billionaire Trump ally and far-right provocateur, saying: “Wow.”
Badenoch has been accused, including by Keir Starmer at PMQs, of spending too much time reading social media.
This concerning Adolescence shows how awful some on the right are these days.
Badenoch gives credence to race-swap conspiracy theory about Adolescence (which she hasn't watched)
Kemi Badenoch has given credence to a conspiracy theory about the Netflix hit Adolescence being based on a real story, but involving a black boy not a white boy.
This has been described as wholly untrue by Jack Thorne, the writer and co-creator of the series, which has been praised by Keir Starmer for the way it has opened up a debate about the radicalisation of young men.
Starmer met Thorne, and some of the shows other creators, in Downing Street this week, along with charities engaged in child protection, and the PM said he would like as many pupils as possible to watch the series.
The four-part drama is about a 13-year-old boy arrested for the murder of a girl at his school. The Guardian’s reviewer described it as “the most devastating and immaculately scripted and played series I have ever seen – as close to televisual perfection as you can get”.
In an interview with GB News, asked if she has seen it, Badenoch replied:
Well, I think Adolescence is a fictional story. It’s based on a real story, but my understanding is that the boy who committed that crime was not white.
So, people can do whatever they like in fiction. The prime minister should not be building policy on fiction. He should be building policy on reality. What is the reality? Phones are disrupting schools and not enough schools have effective bans.
Badenoch went on to talk about the Tory policy to ban mobile phones in schools. In an earlier LBC interview this morning she said that she had not actually watched the programme, because “I don’t have time to watch anything these days, to be honest.”
Speaking to LBC, Badenoch also stated her belief that Adolescence was based on a true story. She said:
The story which it is based on has been fundamentally changed and so creating policy on a work of fiction rather than on reality is the real issue.
But, in an interview last week on the News Agents podcast, Thorne said there was no truth in the claim that he had adapted a real story involving a black boy. He said:
They’ve claimed that Stephen [Graham] and I based it on a story and so they’re saying that we race swapped it, because we were basically here and then ended up there, and everything else, and nothing is further from the truth.
I have told a lot of real-life stories in my time. I know the harm that can come when you take elements of a real-life story, and you put it on screen, and the people aren’t expecting it. There is no part of this that’s based on a true story, not one single part.
Asked about critics who complained about the main character being white, Thorne said:
It’s absurd to say that this is only committed by black boys, it’s absurd, it’s not true. And history shows a lot of cases of kids from all races committing these crimes.
We’re not making a point about race with this. We are making a point about masculinity. We’re trying to get inside a problem. We’re not saying this is one thing or another. We’re saying this is about boys.
The claim that Adolescence was based on a real story involving a black boy has been circulated on social media, including by people claiming that the colour of the main character was changed to conform with an anti-white agenda.
Ian Miles Cheong, a prominent rightwing commentator on X, floated this argument last month in a post that has attracted 4.8m views saying:
Netflix has a show called Adolescence that’s about a British knife killer who stabbed a girl to death on a bus and it’s based on real life cases such as the Southport murderer.
So guess what. They race swapped the actual killer from a black man/migrant to a white boy and the story has it so he was radicalized online by the red pill movement.
Just the absolute state of anti-white propaganda.
This attracted a comment from Elon Musk, the X owner, billionaire Trump ally and far-right provocateur, saying: “Wow.”
Badenoch has been accused, including by Keir Starmer at PMQs, of spending too much time reading social media.
[Post edited 1 Apr 16:50]
Jesus wept. The level of disinformation and reality-denying conspiracy nonsense that's being peddled these days is off the charts. That you have the leader of the opposition perpetuating it further is very troubling.
This concerning Adolescence shows how awful some on the right are these days.
Badenoch gives credence to race-swap conspiracy theory about Adolescence (which she hasn't watched)
Kemi Badenoch has given credence to a conspiracy theory about the Netflix hit Adolescence being based on a real story, but involving a black boy not a white boy.
This has been described as wholly untrue by Jack Thorne, the writer and co-creator of the series, which has been praised by Keir Starmer for the way it has opened up a debate about the radicalisation of young men.
Starmer met Thorne, and some of the shows other creators, in Downing Street this week, along with charities engaged in child protection, and the PM said he would like as many pupils as possible to watch the series.
The four-part drama is about a 13-year-old boy arrested for the murder of a girl at his school. The Guardian’s reviewer described it as “the most devastating and immaculately scripted and played series I have ever seen – as close to televisual perfection as you can get”.
In an interview with GB News, asked if she has seen it, Badenoch replied:
Well, I think Adolescence is a fictional story. It’s based on a real story, but my understanding is that the boy who committed that crime was not white.
So, people can do whatever they like in fiction. The prime minister should not be building policy on fiction. He should be building policy on reality. What is the reality? Phones are disrupting schools and not enough schools have effective bans.
Badenoch went on to talk about the Tory policy to ban mobile phones in schools. In an earlier LBC interview this morning she said that she had not actually watched the programme, because “I don’t have time to watch anything these days, to be honest.”
Speaking to LBC, Badenoch also stated her belief that Adolescence was based on a true story. She said:
The story which it is based on has been fundamentally changed and so creating policy on a work of fiction rather than on reality is the real issue.
But, in an interview last week on the News Agents podcast, Thorne said there was no truth in the claim that he had adapted a real story involving a black boy. He said:
They’ve claimed that Stephen [Graham] and I based it on a story and so they’re saying that we race swapped it, because we were basically here and then ended up there, and everything else, and nothing is further from the truth.
I have told a lot of real-life stories in my time. I know the harm that can come when you take elements of a real-life story, and you put it on screen, and the people aren’t expecting it. There is no part of this that’s based on a true story, not one single part.
Asked about critics who complained about the main character being white, Thorne said:
It’s absurd to say that this is only committed by black boys, it’s absurd, it’s not true. And history shows a lot of cases of kids from all races committing these crimes.
We’re not making a point about race with this. We are making a point about masculinity. We’re trying to get inside a problem. We’re not saying this is one thing or another. We’re saying this is about boys.
The claim that Adolescence was based on a real story involving a black boy has been circulated on social media, including by people claiming that the colour of the main character was changed to conform with an anti-white agenda.
Ian Miles Cheong, a prominent rightwing commentator on X, floated this argument last month in a post that has attracted 4.8m views saying:
Netflix has a show called Adolescence that’s about a British knife killer who stabbed a girl to death on a bus and it’s based on real life cases such as the Southport murderer.
So guess what. They race swapped the actual killer from a black man/migrant to a white boy and the story has it so he was radicalized online by the red pill movement.
Just the absolute state of anti-white propaganda.
This attracted a comment from Elon Musk, the X owner, billionaire Trump ally and far-right provocateur, saying: “Wow.”
Badenoch has been accused, including by Keir Starmer at PMQs, of spending too much time reading social media.
[Post edited 1 Apr 16:50]
I think the last sentence is key here - so many of Badenoch's talking points and phrasings are just things that people in the real world don't understand - she's trying to win back older voters by talking social media to them with things like 'saving Western Civilisation'
Jesus wept. The level of disinformation and reality-denying conspiracy nonsense that's being peddled these days is off the charts. That you have the leader of the opposition perpetuating it further is very troubling.
She’s essentially aping Musk et al. because it gets her attention from the right people. She’s not the only one either which makes it all the more worrying.
She’s essentially aping Musk et al. because it gets her attention from the right people. She’s not the only one either which makes it all the more worrying.
She knows she isn't likely to win an election so I'm guessing she's pitching for a Liz Truss style well-paid far-right shill gig in 5 years' time. Seems to have become a lucrative industry if you don't really care about having principles.
Jesus wept. The level of disinformation and reality-denying conspiracy nonsense that's being peddled these days is off the charts. That you have the leader of the opposition perpetuating it further is very troubling.
Interesting article which suggests the anti-woke race-swap angle (which Badenoch has picked up on) was intended to deflect from the main message in Adolescence and turn it into a culture war issue.
Interesting article which suggests the anti-woke race-swap angle (which Badenoch has picked up on) was intended to deflect from the main message in Adolescence and turn it into a culture war issue.
You stopped reading after the first nine words of a 70+post thread . And then responded.
Chinny reckon.
Who is Peterson anyway. I know tait, obvs.
Ha yeah it does sound like your typical exagerrated claim but its 100% true, it just annoys me that much. Tate is a brainless monstrous mess of a human who can barely speak, Peterson is one of the cleverest, most incisive, fearless speakers I have come across. They could not be more different and are lazily lumped together by people who've just read one paragraph about incels.
Yep, you could maybe have said he didn't deserve to be included 5(?) years ago when he was more serious and consistent but he id fully on the grift now and has been for some time
That's interesting because I was pretty shocked he was being lumped in. Very clever bloke and have enjoyed some of his discussions (certainly not always agreeing but nonetheless he makes some good arguments/points). I think he has raised some valid but unpopular points for discussion. But I haven't watched/listened to much he has said for years so sounds like he has perhaps gone down a more unpleasant path.
Amazed that he is in the same ballpark as Tate though. That's a shame.
As an aside I think Kieran McKenna exemplifies everything that young boys, and girls for that matter, should aspire too in his decency and respect for players and referees (especially when he thinks they are wrong).
Plenty of players, current and recent do too, but McK is very much the figurehead of the club in that regard.
Absolutely. What a fantastic role model. And not just for kids. Even at a grass roots level, anyone who coaches can take so much from him.
That's interesting because I was pretty shocked he was being lumped in. Very clever bloke and have enjoyed some of his discussions (certainly not always agreeing but nonetheless he makes some good arguments/points). I think he has raised some valid but unpopular points for discussion. But I haven't watched/listened to much he has said for years so sounds like he has perhaps gone down a more unpleasant path.
Amazed that he is in the same ballpark as Tate though. That's a shame.
The difference between him and tate is that tate says "you blokes are right to feel agrieved and alienated, and you should do these things to take back your rightful control"
Petersen says "you blokes are right to feel agreived and alienated, and that will inevitably lead to many of you doing these things, and thats understandable. But I am not telling you to do so."
The difference between him and tate is that tate says "you blokes are right to feel agrieved and alienated, and you should do these things to take back your rightful control"
Petersen says "you blokes are right to feel agreived and alienated, and that will inevitably lead to many of you doing these things, and thats understandable. But I am not telling you to do so."
The difference between him and tate is that tate says "you blokes are right to feel agrieved and alienated, and you should do these things to take back your rightful control"
Petersen says "you blokes are right to feel agreived and alienated, and that will inevitably lead to many of you doing these things, and thats understandable. But I am not telling you to do so."
So nothing other than sophistry.
That's not what I've listened to before quite honestly. But from a few posters on here he's perhaps moved down this path which is disappointing if true. I always found him someone worth listening to but that i would have a different view to him on a number of issues. (I enjoy constructive debate which I felt you could have with him. Unlike Tate who just makes you want to puke).
As I haven't listed to him for a few years I won't start back now!
That's not what I've listened to before quite honestly. But from a few posters on here he's perhaps moved down this path which is disappointing if true. I always found him someone worth listening to but that i would have a different view to him on a number of issues. (I enjoy constructive debate which I felt you could have with him. Unlike Tate who just makes you want to puke).
As I haven't listed to him for a few years I won't start back now!
I dont think he does do constructive debate. If anyone bright actually pins him down he resorts to all sorts of misdirection evasion and word salad. Not an honest interlocutor
Ha yeah it does sound like your typical exagerrated claim but its 100% true, it just annoys me that much. Tate is a brainless monstrous mess of a human who can barely speak, Peterson is one of the cleverest, most incisive, fearless speakers I have come across. They could not be more different and are lazily lumped together by people who've just read one paragraph about incels.
If you have listened to anything he has said in the past 5 years and still stand by what you have said here that is quite a revealing post; I don't really see how anyone could listen to any of the angry, culture-war baiting, woman hating stuff he has come out with recently and agree with any of it unless you are yourself aligned with that way of thinking.
It is perhaps inevitable in a male-dominated society that the problems of boys and young men get so much publicity:. But when it comes to mental health, girls and young women suffer much more than boys and young men but we hear very little about that fact.
With mental health rates in teenage girls on the rise globally, how does the UK measure up? Unfortunately, the numbers are quite alarming.
• By 18, girls in the UK are twice as likely to experience mental health conditions than boys. • In England, girls as young as 11 have been reporting signs of mental illness. • In 2021, 25% of girls (aged 17-19) in England reported experiencing psychological distress. • Between April 2021 - October 2021, eating disorders and self-harm rose by 77%. • 15% of teens in the UK reported self-harming within the last year. o 73% of those teens were girls. • 1 in 10 teenagers in the UK reported feeling depressed o 78% of those teens were girls. • 25% of teenagers in the UK have reported feeling completely unhappy with their life. o 63% of those teens were girls. • Another 25% of teenagers in the UK reported low self-esteem and negative self-image. o 79% of those teens were girls."
As the following article about a CDC report, the problem is much the same in the US but Trump's ban on DEI will no doubt prevent the CDC from further investigating this issue.
Of course, this is not to downplay issues affecting boys but girls don't get the equivalent of Keir Starmer mentioning Adolescence in Cabinet, a drama which only tangentially and rather superficially focused on what might be called incel culture.
[Post edited 1 Apr 14:15]
I don't in any way want to downplay the mental health needs of girls and young women, but those figures demonstrate that girls and young women in a mental health crisis are more likely to access support, and be added to official statistics, whereas boys and young men don't, as demonstrated by the significantly higher rate of suicide amongst young males than young females.
Both have needs, but young men are very difficult to reach.
There are so many primary schools where there are no/very few male teachers - an area that something needs to be done I think.
That's not a criticism of female teachers who do a wonderful job too - but if we're talking about young boys being able to see male role models, school is where they are the most of the time and many won't ever see one.
And before anyone says - also agree that men are overrepresented when it comes to senior leadership positions.
There is a lot of truth in this but it's only a small part of the picture. Kids only spend about 18% of their time at school.
It's 106 miles to Portman Road, we've got a full tank of gas, half a round of Port Salut, it's dark... and we're wearing blue tinted sunglasses.
I think the last sentence is key here - so many of Badenoch's talking points and phrasings are just things that people in the real world don't understand - she's trying to win back older voters by talking social media to them with things like 'saving Western Civilisation'
Badenoch is far too online and is in some ways a symptom of the radicalisation of X. That a lot of right-wing talking points correspond to here existing prejudices merely exacerbates her problem.
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