Forum | So a woman is a biological female then…. by itfcjoe

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread

So a woman is a biological female then…. 14:46 - Apr 16 with 22198 views

…I don’t dare look on social media for how this news has been taken by both sides of the debate.

Poll:	Club vs country? What would you choose
Blog:	What is Going on With the Academy at Ipswich Town?

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 19:12 - Apr 16 with 2277 views

Bluecoin

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 17:00 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE
You can't possibly be this stupid.

Are you new around here?

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 19:25 - Apr 16 with 2225 views

NthQldITFC

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 19:05 - Apr 16 by OldFart71
I'm sure a majority of them are chuffed.

Everybody is chuffed; it's a universal feature.

	⚔ Long live the Duke of Punuar ⚔
Poll:	What Olympic sport/group are you most 'into'?

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 19:30 - Apr 16 with 2205 views

Lord_Lucan

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 17:00 - Apr 16 by J2BLUE
You can't possibly be this stupid.

That was one of his less stupid comments in the great scheme of things.

	“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.” Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Poll:	How will you be celebrating Prince Phils life today

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:00 - Apr 16 with 2125 views

Rimsy

At last a bit of common sense. Hopefully all this woke nonsense is going out of fashion.

BlueBlood

-9

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:07 - Apr 16 with 2115 views

Bluecoin

Nobody should forget that David Lammy once went on national radio and said that men can actually grow a cervix.

Geezer is our Foreign Secretary.

I wonder if Starmer still thinks a woman can have a penis. I hope someone will ask him again just for the lolz.

[Post edited 16 Apr 20:08]

-1

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:37 - Apr 16 with 2032 views

MattinLondon

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:00 - Apr 16 by Rimsy
At last a bit of common sense. Hopefully all this woke nonsense is going out of fashion.

When woke goes out of fashion will you simply revert to ‘this is political correctness gone mad’ instead?

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:42 - Apr 16 with 2021 views

Hugoagogo_Reborn

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 16:31 - Apr 16 by ArnoldMoorhen

Which means that two important situations are now clarified:

A person with a penis can't assert female gender in order to serve a sentence in a women's prison.

And

A person with a penis can't assert female gender in order to gain access to a protected female space, such as a women's refuge.

What it doesn't mean is that we can be anything other than respectful to trans people, including referring to them by their pronouns of choice.

Totally agree. It is absolutely possible to show respect for transgender people, without having to impact on the rights of women to feel safe in certain places where our vulnerability is potentially at risk.

Of course, the opposite ends of the extreme views can thrash out the debate endlessly, but I'm just glad that this decision has been made, personally.

Protection under equality laws should be enough for all sectors of society. In practice, it doesn't always happen, but it needs to and work needs to be done on the issues of equality and anti-discrimination before transgender issues, as the broader issue affects transgender AND many other communities.

The broader issue is more pressing, and it will help the trans community plus many others.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:52 - Apr 16 with 1971 views

redrickstuhaart

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:07 - Apr 16 by Bluecoin
Nobody should forget that David Lammy once went on national radio and said that men can actually grow a cervix. Geezer is our Foreign Secretary. I wonder if Starmer still thinks a woman can have a penis. I hope someone will ask him again just for the lolz. [Post edited 16 Apr 20:08]

Do you have the clip?

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:54 - Apr 16 with 1969 views

redrickstuhaart

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:42 - Apr 16 by Hugoagogo_Reborn

What if I dont feel safe in a changing room with someone who was a man but now identifies and has had surgery etc to be female. Where do we put the trans folks then?

Of course, the protection in the Equality Act could well protect rights to use certain spaces based on gender identity in any event.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:55 - Apr 16 with 1967 views

Kievthegreat

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 17:16 - Apr 16 by lowhouseblue
indeed, and, as the court of appeal recently emphasised, labelling people who hold 'gender critical' views as 'transphobes' is discriminatory stereotyping. so he needs to be careful where he does it.

It's only stereotyping if you equate gender critical views with transphobia. Calling transphobes transphobic for having transphobic views is not discriminatory stereotyping.

It's important not to label all gender critical views as transphobic, but it's equally important not to allow it to be used by unscrupulous people as a cover for 'legitimate concerns' as used by some on other areas of society.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:56 - Apr 16 with 1954 views

Swansea_Blue

I always considered a woman to be the one with wobbly boobies. But middle age has taught me that this isn’t necessarily true

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:01 - Apr 16 with 1935 views

Hugoagogo_Reborn

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:54 - Apr 16 by redrickstuhaart
What if I dont feel safe in a changing room with someone who was a man but now identifies and has had surgery etc to be female. Where do we put the trans folks then? Of course, the protection in the Equality Act could well protect rights to use certain spaces based on gender identity in any event.

Then, if society is starting to see more trans people in other 'lower' risk public spaces, then it would clearly be sensible to introduce 'unisex' changing cubicles and toilets. Lots of public spaces have already incorporated unisex toilet cubicles. Surely gyms, for example, can work with designers to create similar spaces, along with slightly smaller communal male/female spaces. It just takes a bit of thought and for designers of newer builds to take the lead in creating these spaces that accommodate trans people, as well as the many biological males and females who simply don't feel comfortable changing in front of other people.

I've always gravitated towards private changing cubicles at gyms, pools, etc. I just feel very uncomfortable changing in front of anyone.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:08 - Apr 16 with 1906 views

Kievthegreat

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 16:31 - Apr 16 by ArnoldMoorhen

What about in the opposite situations? A Transwomen who has had surgery should be excluded from women's refuge or should be housed in the male prison estate? Or what about a Transman who has had surgery?

The ruling has given an unequivocal interpretation of the current legislation in the context of what the word "sex" means in the Equality Act 2010, but has still left huge amounts to interpretation and there will still be numerous cases about what is a proportional exclusion for trans people.

The big issue is that this should have been legislated properly in parliament. The ruling is needed because Parliament couldn't get off it's backside, do it's job and clarify it's legislation to address ambiguous definition of sex. Rather than have an awkward discussion though, has simply let it slide and let the courts do it's job for political expediency. It resolves one element, but will still see plenty of cases to determine when it is proportional to enforce sex protected spaces to the exclusion of trans people.

Ps. I use parliament because it's a cross party issue that's become engrossed in the culture war where Labour don't want to touch it and Tories want to use it to beat on minorities.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:19 - Apr 16 with 1879 views

StokieBlue

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:52 - Apr 16 by redrickstuhaart
Do you have the clip?

You'll not get a reply in the same way people don't get a reply when they call out his cryptocurrency shilling.

SB

Edit: Seems I was wrong. Maybe we will eventually get a crypto reply as well.

[Post edited 16 Apr 23:57]

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:22 - Apr 16 with 1846 views

DJR

The title to the OP is, perhaps understandably, rather misleading.

This from an article by a lawyer in the Guardian.

"The supreme court, headlines say, has ruled on “the definition of a woman”. Except it hasn’t. As the court says, in paragraph 2 of its judgment: “It is not the role of the court to adjudicate on the arguments in the public domain on the meaning of gender or sex, nor is it to define the meaning of the word ‘woman’ other than when it is used in the provisions of the [Equality Act] 2010.”

[Post edited 16 Apr 21:22]

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:28 - Apr 16 with 1803 views

Bluecoin

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:52 - Apr 16 by redrickstuhaart
Do you have the clip?

David Lammys cervix farm has sadly closed.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:31 - Apr 16 with 1777 views

ArnoldMoorhen

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:08 - Apr 16 by Kievthegreat

I was referring to the two particular issues which have been seen to be problematic so far. The convicted rapist who self-declared as female and insisted on serving their sentence in a women's prison, and anecdotal reports of people attempting to gain access to women's refuges by self-declaring as female.

This judgement allows the Home Office or Prison Governors to make a comsidered decision on a case by case basis.

What this ruling does is take away an automatic right to self-declare and then demand certain services under Equal Opportunities legislation.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:32 - Apr 16 with 1776 views

DJR

Interesting to hear Harriet Harman, who steered the Equality Act 2010 through Parliament, state on PM that the provisions of the Act allowing single sex spaces were intended to apply to biological sex.

There clearly has been confusion and that appears to be because the Equality Act failed to clarify its interaction with Gender Recognition Act 2004. And it is this interaction that the Supreme Court ruled on.

Here's a good summary from the Guardian.

"The essence of the court’s decision is (in broad strokes) as follows: a) the Gender Recognition Act 2004 states that a person with a GRC [gender recognition certificate] is to be treated as the sex stated in the GRC “for all purposes” unless a statute provides otherwise; b) although the Equality Act 2010 doesn’t explicitly state otherwise, it contains various references to the word “woman” in contexts where it makes more sense if it is read as “biological woman”; c) the Equality Act therefore rebuts the presumption in the GRA and, for its purposes, “woman” means “biological” (“cis”) woman."

Here is the article in question.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/16/supreme-court-definition-w

As it is, a gender recognition certificate, for example, enables a man who transitions to be a women to be legally regarded as women so as to enable them to marry a man.

[Post edited 16 Apr 21:50]

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:48 - Apr 16 with 1699 views

Kievthegreat

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:31 - Apr 16 by ArnoldMoorhen

That's not quite true in your last sentence. Trans and non-binary can still demand and challenge for a right to services. Single sex spaces must be not discriminate except where it is proportional to do so to protect those spaces as per the EA2010. It's moved the default position, but there will be just as many challenges as before.

It's created clarity on what is sex according to the EA2010, but the legal challenges on single sex spaces will keep rumbling for years because of the line of where "proportional" lies

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:53 - Apr 16 with 1681 views

DJR

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:22 - Apr 16 by DJR

[Post edited 16 Apr 21:22]

To reiterate the point I made about the heading to the OP being misleading below are the terms of section 9 of the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

9 General
(1 ) Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).

(2) Subsection (1) does not affect things done, or events occurring, before the certificate is issued; but it does operate for the interpretation of enactments passed, and instruments and other documents made, before the certificate is issued (as well as those passed or made afterwards).

(3) Subsection (1) is subject to provision made by this Act or any other enactment or any subordinate legislation.

[Post edited 16 Apr 21:56]

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 22:12 - Apr 16 with 1625 views

DJR

Interesting observation from an employment lawyer quoted in the Law Gazette.

‘This latest ruling highlights inconsistencies in sex-based rights in employment and poses some practical issues for employers. Certain rights which are currently available related to sex such as equal pay will only be available based on biological sex. A trans woman, for example, will not have the right to bring an equal pay claim on the basis that she is paid less than a (biological) man."

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 22:31 - Apr 16 with 1584 views

redrickstuhaart

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 22:12 - Apr 16 by DJR

But still entitled not to be discriminated against as trans. So if paid less than a non trans man....

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 23:12 - Apr 16 with 1463 views

lowhouseblue

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:55 - Apr 16 by Kievthegreat

indeed. but the court of appeal highlights the care required: "it is just as necessary in that context to judge an employee's statement by what they actually say (albeit including any necessary implications) rather than by what some readers might choose illegitimately to read into them. That is particularly important in the current social media climate, where messages are often read hastily and sometimes by people who are partisan or even ill-intentioned or (more likely) simply succumb to the common human tendency to find in a communication what they expect to find rather than what is actually there."

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 23:18 - Apr 16 with 1450 views

BanksterDebtSlave

Struggling to give a f#ck to be honest

"Hamas accused Israel of violating the original deal, according to which there would be a second phase where all the remaining living hostages would be handed over and the war brought to a permanent end.

Since then Israeli attacks have killed more than 1,650 people, the Hamas-run Gaza health ministry says, including 36 strikes that killed only women and children according to the UN human rights office."

	"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll:	Do you wipe after having a piss?

-4

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 23:33 - Apr 16 with 1371 views

Rimsy

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 20:37 - Apr 16 by MattinLondon
When woke goes out of fashion will you simply revert to ‘this is political correctness gone mad’ instead?

Why not, anything for a return to normality.

BlueBlood

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread