Forum | So a woman is a biological female then…. by itfcjoe

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So a woman is a biological female then…. 14:46 - Apr 16 with 23774 views

…I don’t dare look on social media for how this news has been taken by both sides of the debate.

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 23:33 - Apr 16 with 2674 views

redrickstuhaart

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 21:28 - Apr 16 by Bluecoin
David Lammys cervix farm has sadly closed.

Fair enough. Thats a bloke stretching to not say something offensive to a random question.

I dont know just how far surgery goes. Though given the cervix is entrance to the womb- one imagines that surgery does not go that far.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 00:32 - Apr 17 with 2573 views

Swansea_Blue

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 23:33 - Apr 16 by redrickstuhaart
Fair enough. Thats a bloke stretching to not say something offensive to a random question. I dont know just how far surgery goes. Though given the cervix is entrance to the womb- one imagines that surgery does not go that far.

They can’t have a cervix. Lammy’s a fool if he knew the answer and swerved it, but may well have not known the answer (why would you?). Ferrari is a prick though, so I’d call it a draw lol

I can’t imagine this court ruling is going to do much for trans people’s rights nor their quality of life unfortunately.

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 00:56 - Apr 17 with 2548 views

vapour_trail

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 16:55 - Apr 16 by Trequartista
If you still think JK Rowling is transphobic after this ruling, you haven't learnt a thing

Interesting.

I’m supportive of the ruling today.

Why do you think JK Rowling refuses to acknowledge individuals preferred pronouns, Treq?

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 06:12 - Apr 17 with 2476 views

cressi

Thank god for a bit of common sense the world has gone mad last few yrs.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 09:17 - Apr 17 with 2341 views

lowhouseblue

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 00:56 - Apr 17 by vapour_trail
Interesting. I’m supportive of the ruling today. Why do you think JK Rowling refuses to acknowledge individuals preferred pronouns, Treq?

j k rowling believes that biological women are significantly different from trans women - a belief which is biologically and legally robust. in discussions with / about some prominent trans women, who are very open about, and seek publicity about, their trans status, her use of pronouns has clearly been intended to highlight that biological and legal point. in public debate, with people who are publicising their trans status, it seems a legitimate point to make. i don't believe she has outed anyone. choosing to point out biological and legal realities in debate in that way in may well be seen as impolite, but it can't in any way be taken to imply hate.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

-3

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 09:18 - Apr 17 with 2359 views

ArmaghBlue

Take it most of the regulars here were disgusted by this outcome?

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 10:02 - Apr 17 with 2259 views

Ryorry

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 09:18 - Apr 17 by ArmaghBlue
Take it most of the regulars here were disgusted by this outcome?

You could always try reading the thread, it’s only 2 and a bit pp long.

If you’re at work, the short answer is no.


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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 10:13 - Apr 17 with 2207 views

Mullet

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 10:02 - Apr 17 by Ryorry
You could always try reading the thread, it’s only 2 and a bit pp long. If you’re at work, the short answer is no.

He's just virtue signalling, quicker than reading.

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 10:18 - Apr 17 with 2149 views

Mullet

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 09:17 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue

I think the most polite thing you can say about her is she's been deeply unhelpful, she's also been championed by a lot of hateful people too.

A bit like Linehan, the approach and attack is as bad as anything they might have said or implied. The biggest issue everyone who isn't trans seems to fall into is that the trans community are homogenous.

They're a minority, full of minorities with different views and ideas you can see it in the fallout again.

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 10:35 - Apr 17 with 2105 views

DJR

I mentioned above that Harriet Harman, who was responsible for the Equality Act 2010, said the Supreme Court ruling confirmed what was the intention of the Act when it came to single-sex spaces.

This is the Tory take on things.

"Speaking to GB News, Richard Holden, hailed it as “a very sensible ruling”, and was at pains to point out that it echoed concerns that had been in the Conservative manifesto at the 2024 general election.

He told viewers:

I think it’s a very sensible ruling. It’s something which was in the Conservative manifesto the last general election that we would ensure that the Equality Act in legislation would be defined properly as biological women. That’s exactly what we would have done. The court seems to have done it for us."

The fact is though that the Tories had plenty of opportunities when in power to clarify the position. Indeed, Kemi Badenoch was even equalities minister for a number of years.

This make me think that the Tories were happy with the confusion to continue because it helped with their culture wars.

[Post edited 17 Apr 10:35]

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 10:44 - Apr 17 with 2076 views

MattinLondon

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 06:12 - Apr 17 by cressi
Thank god for a bit of common sense the world has gone mad last few yrs.

Even through I’m broadly in favour of the ruling and view it as common sense. I did find the celebrating outside of the court as somewhat in bad taste - especially the pouring of champagne.

I do think that sensitivity and quiet dignity should’ve been employed.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 10:52 - Apr 17 with 2054 views

Ryorry

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 10:35 - Apr 17 by DJR

[Post edited 17 Apr 10:35]

Probably one of the few things the majority of the population would have agreed with them on had they gone down the route of trying to obtain clarification!

*edited for clarity, doh

[Post edited 17 Apr 12:24]


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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 11:05 - Apr 17 with 2021 views

J2BLUE

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 10:44 - Apr 17 by MattinLondon
Even through I’m broadly in favour of the ruling and view it as common sense. I did find the celebrating outside of the court as somewhat in bad taste - especially the pouring of champagne. I do think that sensitivity and quiet dignity should’ve been employed.

It has been a long battle for those women and they are quite entitled to celebrate given the abuse which has been thrown their way.

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 11:27 - Apr 17 with 1965 views

DJR

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 11:05 - Apr 17 by J2BLUE
It has been a long battle for those women and they are quite entitled to celebrate given the abuse which has been thrown their way.

It mustn't be forgotten that the increasingly hostile attitude to trans people in the media and elsewhere has had real-world consequences for trans people.

https://metro.co.uk/2024/06/10/map-shows-uk-hotspots-sexual-orientation-transgen

"The UK, which once used to be one of Europe’s most welcoming places to be gay, has seen a 462% increase in sexual orientation hate crime reports since 2012.

The number of reports regarding transphobia has shot up even further with a 1,426% increase, according to the House of Commons Hate Crime Statistics report.

This is a jump from 310 reports recorded in 2012, to 4,732 last year."

And here from a BBC article is the experience of one trans person.

"Shea Coffey is a transgender woman from Kent who says she has experienced "countless" incidents while taking her children to school - and believes things are getting worse.

She said: "I've lost count of the times we've been abused on the school run. People slow down just to shout abuse from their window. Sometimes it's even as you're arriving home, and you can't help but worry they know where you live.

"I can just about cope with the abuse aimed at me, but it's when I'm with my family that it gets to me the most.""

I am not holding my breath that the Supreme Court ruling will improve things when it comes to such hate crimes.

[Post edited 17 Apr 11:30]

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 11:47 - Apr 17 with 1867 views

lowhouseblue

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 10:18 - Apr 17 by Mullet

i think it's very unfair to say that she has been unhelpful. she has been a pretty fearless champion of sex based rights, women's rights, and for an honest discussion of biological realities. her position has now been largely vindicated by the supreme court ruling which has established beyond dispute the legal validity of sex based rights. the abuse she received for saying that trans women are not biological women and do not have the same rights as biological women is remarkably and it involved serious bravery for her to persist against that abuse.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 11:51 - Apr 17 with 1846 views

Mullet

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 11:47 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue

I’m not disputing she received a backlash, merely that she never struck me as someone who wanted to champion human and legal rights rather than those which apply to her. I thought at times she veered into stoking hostility and the hateful rhetoric too through her followers and media supporters.

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 12:05 - Apr 17 with 1792 views

blueasfook

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 23:18 - Apr 16 by BanksterDebtSlave

Struggling to give a f#ck to be honest

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Downvoted for attempting to derail a thread discussing a completely different subject.

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 12:05 - Apr 17 with 1784 views

baxterbasics

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 23:18 - Apr 16 by BanksterDebtSlave

yeah but where does Hamas stand on trans rights? Let's address what matters please.

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 12:10 - Apr 17 with 1745 views

lowhouseblue

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 11:51 - Apr 17 by Mullet
I’m not disputing she received a backlash, merely that she never struck me as someone who wanted to champion human and legal rights rather than those which apply to her. I thought at times she veered into stoking hostility and the hateful rhetoric too through her followers and media supporters.

sadly i think the veering into hostility is what heated social media disputes does to almost everyone. i also don't dispute that there were nasty elements on both sides and that some of the people cheering her on were malign. but essentially she has stood up bravely for women's rights and her stance on that has been vindicated by the supreme court. legally her defence os sex based rights is where the law clearly stands.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 12:15 - Apr 17 with 1728 views

Libero

In terms of trans people competing in sports, I think there's some interesting discussion around that and what is/isn't a good idea and why- but to see the glee some people in this thread are responding the the invalidating of transgender people is uncomfortable.

In the sphere that I work within there are a lot of trans people, many I consider friends. I feel awful for them- although I understand the need to refine legal definitions.

This topic has been effectively weaponised by right wing extremists and is used as a distraction in the same way a lot of the bigoted rhetoric around asylum seekers is.

J.K Rowling is a horrendous transphobic POS- gender is a social construct and transgender/non-binary people have existed for thousands of years, beyond our modern gaze. It's not a phenomenon born of the age we live in, there are several cultures in the pacific who have complex relationships with gender identity.

Anyway, fire your down-arrows away!

[Post edited 17 Apr 12:17]

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 12:28 - Apr 17 with 1629 views

lowhouseblue

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 12:15 - Apr 17 by Libero

[Post edited 17 Apr 12:17]

i don't think rowling is transphobic - her concern has been to assert the importance of sex based women's rights, which is where the law stands, and i don't see that as implying hatred for trans people. she's an abuse survivor and has experienced a women's refuge so her concern with sex based rights is clearly vert genuine. "gender is a social construct" - absolutely, and it is separate from biological sex. people who choose to change their gender deserve and have the full protection of the law against discrimination and harassment. we also need to develop a culture which is much more tolerant, accepting, valuing and supportive of trans people who are often vulnerable and suffer many disadvantages. but there is no reason for that to be at the expense of sex based women's rights. that conflict has been unnecessary. in terms of discrimination, for example, the comparator for a trans women in a discrimination claim is a man who hasn't transitioned - that's where the law is and for the vast majority of people that's where common sense is.

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 12:37 - Apr 17 with 1583 views

J2BLUE

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 12:15 - Apr 17 by Libero

[Post edited 17 Apr 12:17]

Just to be clear, do you mean invalidating by agreeing with this verdict?

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 13:06 - Apr 17 with 1457 views

DJR

Short of there being checks at the entrance, I wonder if this will have any real impact on the use of public toilets.

A trans women may well feel fearful of using male facilities, and so will presumably continue to use female facilities, but I imagine they will want to be discreet and so will probably be able to carry on doing so.

Or maybe we'll go down the US route. This from Wikipedia.

"In 2016, when a large number of "bathroom bills" were proposed in the country, the result was that all women faced harassment due to increased policing on who was using what bathroom. In Kansas, a proposal was created that would give students $2,500 as a bounty for reporting trans people using unapproved restrooms. Washington State proposed a similar law which would allow students to sue their schools for $2,500 if they "encounter a trans person in the bathroom."

Broadening the issue, I am inclined to think that attitudes have changed so much in the last 10 years or so that if we didn't already have same-sex marriage, a party proposing it would come under tremendous onslaught and would probably not even attempt it.

The social liberalism of even Cameron is a distant memory..

[Post edited 17 Apr 13:31]

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 13:44 - Apr 17 with 1341 views

giant_stow

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 13:06 - Apr 17 by DJR

[Post edited 17 Apr 13:31]

Can't agree with the gay marriage point, boss - there's no hint of kick back against that. I think the trans stuff has been a very specific battle between two downtrodden groups - its a shame it got so nasty.

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So a woman is a biological female then…. on 13:59 - Apr 17 with 1277 views

DJR

So a woman is a biological female then…. on 13:44 - Apr 17 by giant_stow
Can't agree with the gay marriage point, boss - there's no hint of kick back against that. I think the trans stuff has been a very specific battle between two downtrodden groups - its a shame it got so nasty.

Of course, it's already in place which makes a difference but I was positing a situation where it wasn't in place, in the context of the Trumpian backlash against DEI.

After all, the culture wars were imported from the US, and where the US right goes, the UK right isn't far behind.

And once the right wing media get involved, it becomes an issue that many people feel strongly about, even if it is largely irrelevant to their life and not something they even thought about before.

[Post edited 17 Apr 14:18]

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