| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef 20:26 - Apr 26 with 5542 views | tetchris |
What’s people’s views and opinions on women commenting on the male game.
Personally I prefer male pundits and commentators for the men’s game but also understand that not everyone has the same opinion as me.
I’m not sexist it’s just my preference. I don’t like female presenters in formula one either. |  | | |  |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 23:22 - Apr 26 with 1337 views | Bigalhunter |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 22:14 - Apr 26 by Hugoagogo_Reborn |
As a woman, I like how Ian Wright has supported and championed the women's game. Therefore, he is welcome in the commentary. Eni Aluko is far from the best female pundit/commentator out there, so she would be wise to wind it in a bit, or she will be fair game. The likes of Sue Smith and Ellen White can sit on any panel, men's or women's, as far as I'm concerned, as they are considered and insightful. In contrast, the likes of Danny Murphy and Andy Townsend can do one.
Pick on merit,.not on gender/race. |
Spot on.
I think Sue Smith is brilliant and I pity her having to share oxygen with that over-indulged moron, Paul Merson on the Saturday razor blade goal show on Sky.
Much as I love Sone Aluko, his sister is an absolute catastrophe anywhere near a microphone or keyboard and Karen Carney is a monotone, cliche-driven bore.
Tv controllers are quite savvy these days, so quite how Rio Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Michael Owen and Danny Murphy get air-time is also utterly beyond me.
Jill Scott and Ellen White would be far better than any of those x4 empty vessels.
As you say, pick on merit regardless of gender. [Post edited 26 Apr 23:27]
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 23:33 - Apr 26 with 1295 views | vapour_trail |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 23:10 - Apr 26 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Murphy and Townsend are fine.
Ellen White seems OK, I've not seen much of Sue Smith.
One observation is that men who haven't played in the Premier League seemingly don't get to be pundits on it, while women who haven't played at that level do get the opportunity. |
Which of the women working in the media haven’t played at the highest level?
I mean, they can’t play in the men’s league in the same way Ian wright can’t play in the WSL. |  |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 23:52 - Apr 26 with 1272 views | StNeotsBlue |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 23:22 - Apr 26 by Bigalhunter |
Spot on.
I think Sue Smith is brilliant and I pity her having to share oxygen with that over-indulged moron, Paul Merson on the Saturday razor blade goal show on Sky.
Much as I love Sone Aluko, his sister is an absolute catastrophe anywhere near a microphone or keyboard and Karen Carney is a monotone, cliche-driven bore.
Tv controllers are quite savvy these days, so quite how Rio Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Michael Owen and Danny Murphy get air-time is also utterly beyond me.
Jill Scott and Ellen White would be far better than any of those x4 empty vessels.
As you say, pick on merit regardless of gender. [Post edited 26 Apr 23:27]
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I don't mind Rio Ferdinand offers a bit of insight into the mindset needed to play at the very top and isn't afraid to critique those who aren't there, including Man Utd players. Danny Murphy is fine too but agree about Owen and to a lesser extent Cole. |  | | |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 23:58 - Apr 26 with 1261 views | Ryorry |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 21:34 - Apr 26 by stonojnr |
Ive always thought, and they used to do this with the red button, there should be a simple ambient stadium noise only no commentary option, so that then you dont have to listen to any commentators.
because actually nearly all of them are terrible thesedays, there isnt a single football commentator I hear and think fantastic theyll be a pleasure to listen to whilst watching this game for 90mins anymore. |
Don't know if the latest Sony TVs have it, but my 42 inch 2014 ome has a 'football' option, with which you can switch the sound to something approximating what you would hear if you were sitting in the ground. |  |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 00:07 - Apr 27 with 1237 views | The_Romford_Blue |
Man or woman.. I say it as I see it.. she’s a knob. A complete and utter kn0b. |  |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 00:07 - Apr 27 with 1237 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 23:33 - Apr 26 by vapour_trail |
Which of the women working in the media haven’t played at the highest level?
I mean, they can’t play in the men’s league in the same way Ian wright can’t play in the WSL. |
It's just a fact that they havent played at an equivalent to Premier League level / standard.
That's not to say they can't be pundits, it's more a case that maybe not having played in the Premier League shouldn't be a barrier to some good male pundits.
Wright has played at a higher level than WSL. [Post edited 27 Apr 0:09]
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 00:08 - Apr 27 with 1232 views | vapour_trail |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 23:22 - Apr 26 by Bigalhunter |
Spot on.
I think Sue Smith is brilliant and I pity her having to share oxygen with that over-indulged moron, Paul Merson on the Saturday razor blade goal show on Sky.
Much as I love Sone Aluko, his sister is an absolute catastrophe anywhere near a microphone or keyboard and Karen Carney is a monotone, cliche-driven bore.
Tv controllers are quite savvy these days, so quite how Rio Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Michael Owen and Danny Murphy get air-time is also utterly beyond me.
Jill Scott and Ellen White would be far better than any of those x4 empty vessels.
As you say, pick on merit regardless of gender. [Post edited 26 Apr 23:27]
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Don’t mind Joe Cole actually. Rio, Christ alive.
Lowest of the low though, Troy Deeney. Blokes a moron. | |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 00:11 - Apr 27 with 1227 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 20:32 - Apr 26 by redrickstuhaart |
She is plainly correct. If Ian Wright does all the women's matches, there is less space for female pundits in that side of the game. Doesnt mean its intentional or malicious and she doesnt say so. [Post edited 26 Apr 20:32]
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He hardly does any WSL matches, but does do internationals. | |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 04:01 - Apr 27 with 1136 views | Illinoisblue |
It’s all as tiresome as the trans debate . Can’t we all just get along? |  |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 05:35 - Apr 27 with 1110 views | heavyweight |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 20:42 - Apr 26 by SuffolkPunchFC |
One of the tests is :
Belief in male superiority: Misogyny often includes the idea that men are inherently better than women
Pretty much what this is. [Post edited 26 Apr 20:45]
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Complete nonense. That does not make it misogyny.
It's a bit like saying a cardiac arrest involves chest pain - therefore chest pain is the definition of a cardiac arrest. | | | |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 07:05 - Apr 27 with 1084 views | chicoazul |
I’m not sexist I just don’t want birds on me telly. |  |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 09:49 - Apr 27 with 1013 views | Swansea_Blue |
Wrighty not accepting the apology was a bit ungracious I thought. Unfortunately, Aluko isn’t the best (to put it mildly!). I don’t know whether that undermines her argument a bit. |  |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:03 - Apr 27 with 977 views | blueasfook |
She has certainly come out of this very badly. She's a terrible pundit, that's maybe why she's struggling to get work rather than Wrighty taking all the jobs. |  |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:08 - Apr 27 with 968 views | Pique |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 09:49 - Apr 27 by Swansea_Blue |
Wrighty not accepting the apology was a bit ungracious I thought. Unfortunately, Aluko isn’t the best (to put it mildly!). I don’t know whether that undermines her argument a bit. |
A bit ungracious, but I can understand it in a way. He's probably just really hurt by her comments, and I can understand why. I'm not going to reel off a list of everything he's done to support the women's game in this country (easy to Google), but suffice to say he's comfortably done more than any other man involved in the game. And, as has been shown above, the idea that he is somehow hogging the lion's share of punditry duties in the women's game is demonstrably false. Her attack on him was ludicrous and the sticking plaster of a forced Instagram apology probably ain't going to cut it with him. |  | | |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:31 - Apr 27 with 919 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 20:32 - Apr 26 by redrickstuhaart |
She is plainly correct. If Ian Wright does all the women's matches, there is less space for female pundits in that side of the game. Doesnt mean its intentional or malicious and she doesnt say so. [Post edited 26 Apr 20:32]
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This is such an unbelievably poor take (in my opinion!!). Missing all context of where Female football is and where it has come from a recency etc. Female football has a good chance to continue the traction it has but has a long way to go. Ian has been incredibly helpful to this and does a lot in the background as well as the media stuff. Female football hasn't been professional long and still nothing like men's football so adding someone experienced and more likely to be watched has been essential. He has helped and even funded things in women's football and bringing them further faster in terms of the media. To name him and make the comments she made was disgusting but I'm pleased she has acknowledged this and apologised.
Both formats mens and womens will be benefited from having Male and females present and as pundits. Benefits both games in my opinion and let's just have top male and female pundits do both. Why would you have all female in the women's game and both in the men's. Let's just have both. Her points made little sense other than being a bit 'Joey Barton' to be honest (ironically though not quite as bad because you can make an underrepresented argument of course).
The most unfortunate thing for Eni is she is a really poor pundit and has been massively overtaken by some brilliant female pundits in my opinion. | |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:46 - Apr 27 with 892 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:31 - Apr 27 by Nutkins_Return |
This is such an unbelievably poor take (in my opinion!!). Missing all context of where Female football is and where it has come from a recency etc. Female football has a good chance to continue the traction it has but has a long way to go. Ian has been incredibly helpful to this and does a lot in the background as well as the media stuff. Female football hasn't been professional long and still nothing like men's football so adding someone experienced and more likely to be watched has been essential. He has helped and even funded things in women's football and bringing them further faster in terms of the media. To name him and make the comments she made was disgusting but I'm pleased she has acknowledged this and apologised.
Both formats mens and womens will be benefited from having Male and females present and as pundits. Benefits both games in my opinion and let's just have top male and female pundits do both. Why would you have all female in the women's game and both in the men's. Let's just have both. Her points made little sense other than being a bit 'Joey Barton' to be honest (ironically though not quite as bad because you can make an underrepresented argument of course).
The most unfortunate thing for Eni is she is a really poor pundit and has been massively overtaken by some brilliant female pundits in my opinion. |
Its not a poor take at all- its factual. Whether you like it or not.
If Wright is doing lots of women's games, that is one less slot for women who have long been underepresented. Doesnt make it malicious, doesn;t even make it wrong. Its just a fact. The fact that Wright says he has been helpful to it all (which may well be correct) has no bearing on that. Both things can be true... | | | |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:49 - Apr 27 with 887 views | Pique |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:31 - Apr 27 by Nutkins_Return |
This is such an unbelievably poor take (in my opinion!!). Missing all context of where Female football is and where it has come from a recency etc. Female football has a good chance to continue the traction it has but has a long way to go. Ian has been incredibly helpful to this and does a lot in the background as well as the media stuff. Female football hasn't been professional long and still nothing like men's football so adding someone experienced and more likely to be watched has been essential. He has helped and even funded things in women's football and bringing them further faster in terms of the media. To name him and make the comments she made was disgusting but I'm pleased she has acknowledged this and apologised.
Both formats mens and womens will be benefited from having Male and females present and as pundits. Benefits both games in my opinion and let's just have top male and female pundits do both. Why would you have all female in the women's game and both in the men's. Let's just have both. Her points made little sense other than being a bit 'Joey Barton' to be honest (ironically though not quite as bad because you can make an underrepresented argument of course).
The most unfortunate thing for Eni is she is a really poor pundit and has been massively overtaken by some brilliant female pundits in my opinion. |
Very much agree with you about female pundits in the men's game and male pundits in the women's game benefiting the sport as a whole.
It doesn't seem to occur to Aluko that Wright sometimes covering Lionesses games IS actually an example of him supporting the women's game. Yes, he's getting paid for it, but he's highly unlikely to be doing it for the money or to raise his profile - he already has tonnes of work across the upper echelons of the men's game. I would suggest he's doing it because he wants to help raise the profile of the women's game, which he is doing via his punditry - not because he's a man, but because (whether you like him or not) he's a big star. And it's notable that he's the only big male star pundit doing so (that I can think of). [Post edited 27 Apr 11:10]
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:51 - Apr 27 with 875 views | Pique |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:46 - Apr 27 by redrickstuhaart |
Its not a poor take at all- its factual. Whether you like it or not.
If Wright is doing lots of women's games, that is one less slot for women who have long been underepresented. Doesnt make it malicious, doesn;t even make it wrong. Its just a fact. The fact that Wright says he has been helpful to it all (which may well be correct) has no bearing on that. Both things can be true... |
Once again...11 Lionesses games in two seasons, one WSL game in the competition's history. If we want to talk factual, let's at least have the facts. | | | |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:56 - Apr 27 with 858 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:51 - Apr 27 by Pique |
Once again...11 Lionesses games in two seasons, one WSL game in the competition's history. If we want to talk factual, let's at least have the facts. |
Which bit of my comments is not factual?
And why not address the point made rather than looking for something tangential to quibble over? | | | |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 11:02 - Apr 27 with 835 views | Pique |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:56 - Apr 27 by redrickstuhaart |
Which bit of my comments is not factual?
And why not address the point made rather than looking for something tangential to quibble over? |
The part where you said he does lots of women's games. He demonstrably doesn't.
That's not tangential, it's the entire basis of your argument. [Post edited 27 Apr 11:05]
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 11:16 - Apr 27 with 780 views | Ryorry |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:46 - Apr 27 by redrickstuhaart |
Its not a poor take at all- its factual. Whether you like it or not.
If Wright is doing lots of women's games, that is one less slot for women who have long been underepresented. Doesnt make it malicious, doesn;t even make it wrong. Its just a fact. The fact that Wright says he has been helpful to it all (which may well be correct) has no bearing on that. Both things can be true... |
Why should women automatically have the right to commentary/pundit slots? That might have been warranted 10 years ago, but not now.
Some have had their chances & been excellent; others have had the chance and been poor. Let the excellent ones retain their places & the poor ones get dropped (sadly the latter doesn't always happen, which applies to some of the men too).
Wrighty, Westy & the retired GK whose name I forget that has recently been co-comms on some of our games, are the only commentators/pundits worth listening to for me. I flick the off-switch at a.n.others droning on with little insight who haven't done their homework. I can't get R.Suffolk, so that opinion doesn't include them.
Best person for job should be the norm, as others have said. | |
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 11:21 - Apr 27 with 758 views | BloomBlue |
Find it all a bit strange. Wright seems to worship Shearer, but Shearer is one of the worst pundits ever, and is definitely keeping a knowledge person from a pundits job irrelevant of them being male or female. Wright could at least be honest about that.
But Aluko has an opinion, like all people she should be allowed an opinion, I really don't see why she even had to apologise. However she has, and he's refused it, very childish by him. |  | | |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 11:45 - Apr 27 with 701 views | Smoresy |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 10:31 - Apr 27 by Nutkins_Return |
This is such an unbelievably poor take (in my opinion!!). Missing all context of where Female football is and where it has come from a recency etc. Female football has a good chance to continue the traction it has but has a long way to go. Ian has been incredibly helpful to this and does a lot in the background as well as the media stuff. Female football hasn't been professional long and still nothing like men's football so adding someone experienced and more likely to be watched has been essential. He has helped and even funded things in women's football and bringing them further faster in terms of the media. To name him and make the comments she made was disgusting but I'm pleased she has acknowledged this and apologised.
Both formats mens and womens will be benefited from having Male and females present and as pundits. Benefits both games in my opinion and let's just have top male and female pundits do both. Why would you have all female in the women's game and both in the men's. Let's just have both. Her points made little sense other than being a bit 'Joey Barton' to be honest (ironically though not quite as bad because you can make an underrepresented argument of course).
The most unfortunate thing for Eni is she is a really poor pundit and has been massively overtaken by some brilliant female pundits in my opinion. |
This is what Eni said:
"The fact of the matter is, there is a limited amount of spaces available. If we had a situation where there was an equal opportunity in the men’s game for broadcasters and coaches that there is in the women’s game, it’s a free for all.
But that’s not the case. I can’t dominate the men’s game in the way that, you know, you used Ian as an example (this issue and Ian's name raised as a factor for discussion)."
"I don’t know about (Ian's regular appearances being) wrong, (this being the follow-up question posed), but I think we need to be conscious and we need to make sure that women are not being blocked from having a pathway into broadcasting in the women’s game.
It’s still new, it’s still growing. There’s a finite amount of opportunities and I think that men need to be aware of that.
Men need to be aware that, you know, you’re in a growing sport, a growing sport for women, and we haven’t always had these opportunities, and so it’s about the awareness and supporting other women through that pathway."
Now I'm firmly team Ian and believe Eni to not be blessed in the punditry department, which is why she's struggling for work compared to other women - I would place her in the Paul Merson category - but "disgusting" feels a bit much lol. She's been invited to speak on her professional plight and the conversation has moved onto this line of enquiry, presumably one of several. She presented a bad position on it, likely the consequence of misapprehensions about her own broadcasting talent and why she's been sidelined. She's understandably offended Ian a great deal. She's apologised, rightly and sensibly. I don't honestly think it merits excoriation. Just my two cents!!
Otherwise I agree with the sentiment of your post. Cheeky Christiansen is one of my favourites of any gender. I like most of the F1 and TMS women and I like hearing variety of voices in the main, as am I partial to female faces. It all brings more life, character and perspectives to proceedings. | | | |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 11:47 - Apr 27 with 703 views | SE1blue |
It’s interesting reading this thread from Canada.
Here, we have excellent female presenters, who provide both excellent commentary and match analysis before, during and after games. They do this for both men and women’s games. You don’t even notice the gender here.
Personally, I don’t think your beef should be with female presenters but with the production teams that are choosing who presents their football. The BBC and Sky are notoriously bad at selecting appropriate people for these roles and often take the lazy (easy) route of choosing a big name or ‘personality’. I am sure just as many women complain about the poor quality female presenters as you do, but you need to understand that’s not their fault.
You definitely need to look at more factors than just gender here. [Post edited 27 Apr 11:51]
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| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 12:13 - Apr 27 with 626 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Ian Wright/Eni Aluko beef on 11:45 - Apr 27 by Smoresy |
This is what Eni said:
"The fact of the matter is, there is a limited amount of spaces available. If we had a situation where there was an equal opportunity in the men’s game for broadcasters and coaches that there is in the women’s game, it’s a free for all.
But that’s not the case. I can’t dominate the men’s game in the way that, you know, you used Ian as an example (this issue and Ian's name raised as a factor for discussion)."
"I don’t know about (Ian's regular appearances being) wrong, (this being the follow-up question posed), but I think we need to be conscious and we need to make sure that women are not being blocked from having a pathway into broadcasting in the women’s game.
It’s still new, it’s still growing. There’s a finite amount of opportunities and I think that men need to be aware of that.
Men need to be aware that, you know, you’re in a growing sport, a growing sport for women, and we haven’t always had these opportunities, and so it’s about the awareness and supporting other women through that pathway."
Now I'm firmly team Ian and believe Eni to not be blessed in the punditry department, which is why she's struggling for work compared to other women - I would place her in the Paul Merson category - but "disgusting" feels a bit much lol. She's been invited to speak on her professional plight and the conversation has moved onto this line of enquiry, presumably one of several. She presented a bad position on it, likely the consequence of misapprehensions about her own broadcasting talent and why she's been sidelined. She's understandably offended Ian a great deal. She's apologised, rightly and sensibly. I don't honestly think it merits excoriation. Just my two cents!!
Otherwise I agree with the sentiment of your post. Cheeky Christiansen is one of my favourites of any gender. I like most of the F1 and TMS women and I like hearing variety of voices in the main, as am I partial to female faces. It all brings more life, character and perspectives to proceedings. |
I hear you. I did read the article in full but always careful as media thrive on having an angle that gets this kind of debate. I think it's no bad thing for you to pull me up on the word 'disgusting' and respect you for doing so. I did nearly change the word. BUT the reason I went with it and believe it's justified (just about) is as follows:
A) Ian has specifically helped Eni. (Obviously the wider women's game (something's under the radar she knows about but he hasn't made public). He specifically helped her directly and got her opportunities. He is extremely aware of his place and I don't think would hesitate to stand aside.
B) She knows more than anyone the impact of statements and singling out an individual. The double standard here after the disgusting treatment handed out to her is dumbfounding. I really can't believe she was so naive and stupid as to not realise what would be the fallout here.
I'm delighted she has apologised and I for one won't hound her for it beyond my post. She can have my forgiveness but up to Ian on his side and can see why he hasn't.
Personally hope she does get some more work but she has to take a serious look at his she conducts herself and her cause. She has to take a step back and work on her own levels as she is well below others who have come through in the game.
My biggest disappointment as well is how she sets back the whole issue for women in the game. This has been absolutely jumped on on social media. Normal knuckle draggers posting about getting women out the game/they are useless etc. They demonstrably are not and some quality female pundits who are better than some.of their male counterparts. The male and women pundits should be on the same page and talking each other up!! | |
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