| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. 20:51 - May 5 with 1485 views | Linners |
The whole thing must be costing tens of millions but it's just not made anything better. If anything, it's getting worse as everyone is losing their mind over what is and isn't a clear and obvious error.
With simulation now basically a professional skill, mastered at the highest level by the best players, we're wasting millions asking referees to have degrees in physics to work out whether contact is sufficient to cause an action.
Bin it. It costs a fortune and we're no better off. |  | | |  |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 21:03 - May 5 with 1347 views | Basuco |
The truth is, two referee's watching a slow motion replay of an incident are still incapable of spotting the difference between a blatant dive and a foul. Not sure what the answer is but the VAR ref's just seem to be just as inconsistent during the course of a game as the ref is in real time. Sadly the Premier League really is corrupt as f**k. as we regularly reminded the ref on Saturday and on many other occasions. If they are not then I cannot see why they would be so wildly inconsistent. |  | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 21:08 - May 5 with 1332 views | MattinLondon |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 21:03 - May 5 by Basuco |
The truth is, two referee's watching a slow motion replay of an incident are still incapable of spotting the difference between a blatant dive and a foul. Not sure what the answer is but the VAR ref's just seem to be just as inconsistent during the course of a game as the ref is in real time. Sadly the Premier League really is corrupt as f**k. as we regularly reminded the ref on Saturday and on many other occasions. If they are not then I cannot see why they would be so wildly inconsistent. |
It’s not corrupt at all - there certainly is a big club bias but that’s always been a thing. And there are inconsistencies but that’s because humans are in charge - and as such mistakes and inconsistent behaviours and decisions happen. |  | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:00 - May 5 with 1247 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 21:08 - May 5 by MattinLondon |
It’s not corrupt at all - there certainly is a big club bias but that’s always been a thing. And there are inconsistencies but that’s because humans are in charge - and as such mistakes and inconsistent behaviours and decisions happen. |
100% agree. There is no way there is widespread corruption with the officials. There is probably unconscious bias, as well as the human element as you say.
This cry of corruption is primarily driven by fan bias towards decisions that don’t go the way they see it. Guess what? The fan’s interpretation is subject to the same possible error and bias. |  | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:02 - May 5 with 1230 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 21:08 - May 5 by MattinLondon |
It’s not corrupt at all - there certainly is a big club bias but that’s always been a thing. And there are inconsistencies but that’s because humans are in charge - and as such mistakes and inconsistent behaviours and decisions happen. |
You cannot possibly know that. | | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:03 - May 5 with 1227 views | Garv |
The sad thing is it was always going to be a disaster. It's not as if it was imperative that it was brought in. |  |
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| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:17 - May 5 with 1175 views | BLUEBEAT |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 21:08 - May 5 by MattinLondon |
It’s not corrupt at all - there certainly is a big club bias but that’s always been a thing. And there are inconsistencies but that’s because humans are in charge - and as such mistakes and inconsistent behaviours and decisions happen. |
so “big club bias” isn’t a form of corruption? 🤔 |  |
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| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:23 - May 5 with 1160 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:17 - May 5 by BLUEBEAT |
so “big club bias” isn’t a form of corruption? 🤔 |
Not when it’s unconscious bias, which exists in all of us and inevitably affects the officials. I’m sure they are mentored against it, but it is so instinctive it’s impossible to eradicate entirely. | | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:28 - May 5 with 1148 views | SitfcB |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 21:03 - May 5 by Basuco |
The truth is, two referee's watching a slow motion replay of an incident are still incapable of spotting the difference between a blatant dive and a foul. Not sure what the answer is but the VAR ref's just seem to be just as inconsistent during the course of a game as the ref is in real time. Sadly the Premier League really is corrupt as f**k. as we regularly reminded the ref on Saturday and on many other occasions. If they are not then I cannot see why they would be so wildly inconsistent. |
That chant is so cringey.
It’s not corrupt - the officiating is just shîte and so inconsistent.
The league is corrupt because an Everton player didn’t get booked in a dead rubber game towards the end of the season  |  |
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| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:30 - May 5 with 1134 views | TresBonne |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:28 - May 5 by SitfcB |
That chant is so cringey.
It’s not corrupt - the officiating is just shîte and so inconsistent.
The league is corrupt because an Everton player didn’t get booked in a dead rubber game towards the end of the season |
Was gonna say. That was incredibly weird on Saturday. |  | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:31 - May 5 with 1129 views | bournemouthblue |
The problem with VAR is the FA, they seem hellbent on making it so incompetent, it is scrapped almost to prove a point
I get the impression it's used more effectively in other European nations, there seems far less fuss in European matches for example
I can remember the biggest shambles at the Euros featuring English officials, this is not a coincidence |  |
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| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:37 - May 5 with 1116 views | MattinLondon |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:17 - May 5 by BLUEBEAT |
so “big club bias” isn’t a form of corruption? 🤔 |
Of course it’s not.
Corruption is a form of dishonesty or an abuse of power for an individuals gain. Big club bias is simply weighing up a decision and unconsciously favouring the bigger club or more famous player.
I didn’t include the word ‘unconscious’ in my original post which makes a huge difference. | | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 23:15 - May 5 with 1015 views | norfsufblue |
I f a sujective decision has to be made then you have to give an individual the jurisdiction to make that decision on his own. Remember it always used to be Refs decision is final. Now we have technology to rectify clear and obvious errors the only way to operate is to get rid of VAR officials and bring in limited appeals to the appointed referee on the basis of 1 appeal per team per half. Once sn appeal is made then the man in the middle can reviewvhis own decision on the tv screen... if he sticks with his decision the appeal is lost and if he chznges it the appeal retain as in most other sports!
I really dont know whats so difficult about that system?
Additionally the referee will obviously then have to answer for his decisions by normal match review. It will soon become clear who correctly applies the law MOST often. |  | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 23:33 - May 5 with 964 views | JammyDodgerrr |
Genuinely they need to stop staffing it with referees and start hiring fresh. It needs to be a role for an analyst, someone who hasn't reffed before but could understand and apply the laws etc. that's the biggest mistake for me - when you just put the refs in front of a TV instead of the pitch it just causes the same issues. |  |
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| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 23:33 - May 5 with 966 views | TractorFrog |
Championship football is more exciting because the players want to play on, whereas in the Premier League they want to win a foul. I don’t know how much VAR is the reason for this but I suspect it plays a big role. If someone is clipped, they know they can safely go down and get the free kick where in the championship they are at risk of not getting it, and the opposing team getting the ball and breaking. So they are more inclined to stay on their feet. Nothing ruins a game more than stopping and starting, while the long waits and checks are so boring, and I would prefer more slightly dodgy decisions to reduce those things any day.
I also agree with the comment about it causing more annoyance and accusations of corruption which nobody wants, whereas it’s better to just accept that referees are human and make mistakes. |  |
| They'd all laugh at me if they knew what I was trying to do. To create a new strain of super-wine in half-an-hour with a fraction of nature's resources and a FOOL for an assistant. 'Bernard Black, he's mad,' they'd say, 'he's insane, he's dangerous.' Well I'll show them! I'll show them all! | | Poll: | Who should start in CM with Cajuste? |
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| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 23:49 - May 5 with 917 views | Garv |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:37 - May 5 by MattinLondon |
Of course it’s not.
Corruption is a form of dishonesty or an abuse of power for an individuals gain. Big club bias is simply weighing up a decision and unconsciously favouring the bigger club or more famous player.
I didn’t include the word ‘unconscious’ in my original post which makes a huge difference. |
Isn't there an old saying about Old Trafford and the likelihood of a penalty going against the away side?
It's the classic example. It's always been there, it's almost part of home advantage and/or having the louder or bigger proportion of fans in the stadium, or even the scarier manager (Fergie for e.g). There are natural reasons a referee will give a decision one way instead of another outside of the merits of the actual incident...and that's fine. It's another reason 'consistency' is a load of bollox. | |
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| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 01:29 - May 6 with 852 views | StNeotsBlue |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 23:33 - May 5 by JammyDodgerrr |
Genuinely they need to stop staffing it with referees and start hiring fresh. It needs to be a role for an analyst, someone who hasn't reffed before but could understand and apply the laws etc. that's the biggest mistake for me - when you just put the refs in front of a TV instead of the pitch it just causes the same issues. |
Hold fire chap, that is a mental suggestion, my apologies if you are mental but that is mental. You are seriously suggesting an analyst rather than someone who has played the game or refed it.
I'm not a fan fan of VAR and would happily see it binned off. |  | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 06:53 - May 6 with 710 views | NthQldITFC |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 21:08 - May 5 by MattinLondon |
It’s not corrupt at all - there certainly is a big club bias but that’s always been a thing. And there are inconsistencies but that’s because humans are in charge - and as such mistakes and inconsistent behaviours and decisions happen. |
I think it's down to semantics in this argument, really. I would say that big club bias is by definition corruption, because it corrupts the fairness of the game. But then others would define corruption as brown envelopes changing hands for specific outcomes - I don't believe that's going on.
Corruption is perhaps another word which has become corrupted (sry) like 'terrorism', which means these discussions always trip up.
edit: sorry, hadn't read the rest of the thread before posting this. [Post edited 6 May 6:56]
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| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 08:25 - May 6 with 586 views | Radlett_blue |
When VAR gets it wrong, it naturally attracts huge attention. But watch, for example, the Brighton - Newcastle game & 2 penalties awarded to Newcastle were - rightly - overturned, one because the contact was outside the box & the other because the Newcastle player dived & was rightly booked. It then gave - correctly again - a penalty to Newcastle for handball. With players looking to "win" penalty kicks the whole time, refereeing has become even more difficult. |  |
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| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 08:43 - May 6 with 554 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 08:25 - May 6 by Radlett_blue |
When VAR gets it wrong, it naturally attracts huge attention. But watch, for example, the Brighton - Newcastle game & 2 penalties awarded to Newcastle were - rightly - overturned, one because the contact was outside the box & the other because the Newcastle player dived & was rightly booked. It then gave - correctly again - a penalty to Newcastle for handball. With players looking to "win" penalty kicks the whole time, refereeing has become even more difficult. |
Only highlighting the mistakes by those who say it doesn’t work is of course also a form of bias.
I’d like to see a detailed analysis of the decision outcomes for different situations (offsides, penalty checks, etc). It would be interesting to see how much VAR improves (or doesn’t) the decisions versus in non-VAR matches. It’d be possible then to make a call on whether it’s worth keeping, or if certain decision types could be excluded, or even new situations brought under its remit. Without that most of the VAR talk is just pissing in the wind. |  |
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| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 09:49 - May 6 with 478 views | bsw72 |
I'd argue that the problem with VAR is less about decisions right vs wrong (although very important), it is how much it is spoiling football as a spectacle for supporters.
The fact that supporters cannot celebrate a goal these days, the delay in making decisions then stops any flow or momentum teams have.
With football being so different to cricket and rugby in the way that it plays, I am not convinced the benefits of VAR outweigh the damage it does as a spectator sport. |  | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 09:56 - May 6 with 464 views | bsw72 |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 01:29 - May 6 by StNeotsBlue |
Hold fire chap, that is a mental suggestion, my apologies if you are mental but that is mental. You are seriously suggesting an analyst rather than someone who has played the game or refed it.
I'm not a fan fan of VAR and would happily see it binned off. |
Possibly one of the finest first lines I have seen posted on here for months . . . | | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 10:41 - May 6 with 403 views | Durovigutum |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 22:02 - May 5 by redrickstuhaart |
You cannot possibly know that. |
Corruption indicates a decision in return for favour. That does not happen in this country with top flight referees (with some very rare exceptions in the past).
This is different from refereeing being very hard and them making mistakes.
Favouring the big team is making mistakes, not corruption.
Refereeing is still the Victorian concept of one bloke running around a pitch, now with elite athletes (far fitter, stronger, faster, younger than the ref), trying to get into a position to see some form of incident in a split second, then working through the laws of the game to give an interpretation and apply a decision. Guess why mistakes are made? |  | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 11:25 - May 6 with 355 views | MattinLondon |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 10:41 - May 6 by Durovigutum |
Corruption indicates a decision in return for favour. That does not happen in this country with top flight referees (with some very rare exceptions in the past).
This is different from refereeing being very hard and them making mistakes.
Favouring the big team is making mistakes, not corruption.
Refereeing is still the Victorian concept of one bloke running around a pitch, now with elite athletes (far fitter, stronger, faster, younger than the ref), trying to get into a position to see some form of incident in a split second, then working through the laws of the game to give an interpretation and apply a decision. Guess why mistakes are made? |
To add to your final paragraph - a lot of those elite athletes will feign injury, over exaggerate contact, verbally abuse and shout at the ref. And that’s before we take into account, abuse from the crowd, manbaby managers and the media all forming a line to criticise the ref.
No wonder mistakes are made. | | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 13:29 - May 6 with 226 views | norfsufblue |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 11:25 - May 6 by MattinLondon |
To add to your final paragraph - a lot of those elite athletes will feign injury, over exaggerate contact, verbally abuse and shout at the ref. And that’s before we take into account, abuse from the crowd, manbaby managers and the media all forming a line to criticise the ref.
No wonder mistakes are made. |
I watched ice hockey last night.... it takes them seconds to dish out penalties etc in a very fast moving sport and one things for sure in that sport.... Nobody is feigning fouls or injury! | | | |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 13:34 - May 6 with 217 views | MattinLondon |
| Aside of the really obvious errors, VAR is just as random as refereeing. on 13:29 - May 6 by norfsufblue |
I watched ice hockey last night.... it takes them seconds to dish out penalties etc in a very fast moving sport and one things for sure in that sport.... Nobody is feigning fouls or injury! |
Diving (or flopping as I think it’s called over there) is a problem in ice hockey as it is in basketball and even American Football.
Every sport in which huge sums of money and prestige is involved, as well as big crowds, sees a lot of cheating involved in it. | | | |
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