| Davis 12:14 - May 22 with 2430 views | tonybied |
Despite how phenomenal he was last time in the Championship and how sad I'd be to see him go, I can't help but think that it may be better on the whole for the team if he moves on. His defensive qualities are just not good enough for us in the Premier League. I'm not saying he is not good enough for the Prem, just that the midfield/defence around him needs to be of much better quality than we have.
I think the balance of having someone slightly better defensively and not looking to try and move too far up the pitch, leaving gaping holes for the forward machines/steam trains to exploit, will be much better for the team.
Of course, this would also all depend on us finding a decent replacement for him. [Post edited 22 May 12:15]
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| Davis on 12:56 - May 22 with 663 views | hype313 |
| Davis on 12:16 - May 22 by ArnieM |
I prefer Townsend both defensively and he can get forward and put in a decent cross too. So if Davis does jump ship, fine . and good luck to him.. |
Last time both were in the Championship, Davis got 20 Assists, Townsend got 3.
I'd prefer Leif on those stats. |  |
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| Davis on 12:57 - May 22 with 659 views | tonybied |
| Davis on 12:38 - May 22 by CobboldCrusty |
Agree but I think it might be better to accept that he is going to move on and think optimistically about the type of options we might get in for a far smaller fee to compete with Townsend. This squad and its approach is going to have to evolve without some of the components that got us here.
Teams are going to be ready for Ipswich this time, so McKenna is going to have to think hard about our tactical approach next season. I don't think we'll win games outscoring teams the way we used to. The chips just aren't going to fall the way they did in the two promotion seasons.
Does that involve acquiring a more orthodox left back? Does it mean a change of approach where our LB has less responsibility/distance to cover than Leif did? Who knows, but the combination of him being pinned back and a sluggish two-man midfield left us really struggling to pull the strings, move the ball up the pitch and expose space behind full backs the way we used to.
The tactics that got us to the PL have been in several Athletic articles. Easier league or not, they're going to be so ready for us. |
Exactly, if people think that other Championship teams won't see how we've been exploited down our left and try to emulate that, then they're in for a rude awakening. Yes, the level of quality is not as high as the Prem, but we definitely won't have the "free pass" we had on the way up last season.
You've said much of what I was trying to say, rather more eloquently!
We need to evolve, and personally, I think that should be in a more balanced set up.
I must add to those who seem to have taken this the wrong way, my OP is not in any way trying to single Leif out for blame for relegation. He has weaknesses, that I'm sure he'd be happy to admit to, and the role he is asked to play in the team has played a major part in exposing these , but we have just not been good enough as a team. Which is my point, we need to improve the team/set up as a whole, not just look at what a single player can bring to the team, but what their inclusion means to the other players around them. weaknesses too.
He is a great player, seems like a good egg, and most of the other players always seem to have a good laugh with him, so I'm sure he would be missed by teammates and fans alike, but we need to look at our system as it plainly didn't work this season. | | | |
| Davis on 13:00 - May 22 with 633 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Davis on 12:23 - May 22 by Matt_Netherlands |
What’s a realistic fee for him? £15m+ add ons? |
It would have to start in a 2 for me. |  | | |
| Davis on 13:07 - May 22 with 594 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Davis on 12:57 - May 22 by tonybied |
Exactly, if people think that other Championship teams won't see how we've been exploited down our left and try to emulate that, then they're in for a rude awakening. Yes, the level of quality is not as high as the Prem, but we definitely won't have the "free pass" we had on the way up last season.
You've said much of what I was trying to say, rather more eloquently!
We need to evolve, and personally, I think that should be in a more balanced set up.
I must add to those who seem to have taken this the wrong way, my OP is not in any way trying to single Leif out for blame for relegation. He has weaknesses, that I'm sure he'd be happy to admit to, and the role he is asked to play in the team has played a major part in exposing these , but we have just not been good enough as a team. Which is my point, we need to improve the team/set up as a whole, not just look at what a single player can bring to the team, but what their inclusion means to the other players around them. weaknesses too.
He is a great player, seems like a good egg, and most of the other players always seem to have a good laugh with him, so I'm sure he would be missed by teammates and fans alike, but we need to look at our system as it plainly didn't work this season. |
You think teams didn't try and exploit him being a marauding full back last season? He dominated the entire left hand side for us and was phenomenal. 18 assists, a record for a defender in the Championship. He was the plus point for me vs Leicester, he looked back to his old self. I find it utterly mental that anyone would be anything other than devastated if he left in the summer. |  | | |
| Davis on 13:13 - May 22 with 554 views | LankHenners |
| Davis on 12:57 - May 22 by tonybied |
Exactly, if people think that other Championship teams won't see how we've been exploited down our left and try to emulate that, then they're in for a rude awakening. Yes, the level of quality is not as high as the Prem, but we definitely won't have the "free pass" we had on the way up last season.
You've said much of what I was trying to say, rather more eloquently!
We need to evolve, and personally, I think that should be in a more balanced set up.
I must add to those who seem to have taken this the wrong way, my OP is not in any way trying to single Leif out for blame for relegation. He has weaknesses, that I'm sure he'd be happy to admit to, and the role he is asked to play in the team has played a major part in exposing these , but we have just not been good enough as a team. Which is my point, we need to improve the team/set up as a whole, not just look at what a single player can bring to the team, but what their inclusion means to the other players around them. weaknesses too.
He is a great player, seems like a good egg, and most of the other players always seem to have a good laugh with him, so I'm sure he would be missed by teammates and fans alike, but we need to look at our system as it plainly didn't work this season. |
They tried (and sometimes succeeded) to do that to us last season but we were just too strong for many of them going the other way that we outgunned them in the end. That we leave a lot of space in that area of the pitch will hardly be new information!
I do sort of get your argument about preparing a more suitable style for the Prem should we get back up but if we take away too much of what works really well for us then we could well end up burning our bridge at both ends.
Shouldn't go unnoticed that not having a proper functioning right hand side for pretty much the whole season has quite significantly altered the balance of the whole team and affected our left hand side quite a bit. |  |
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| Davis on 13:13 - May 22 with 550 views | DanTheMan |
Finding a replacement for him will be incredibly difficult, to put it mildly.
To put it into perspective, Trent Alexander-Arnold has created 14 chances this season whilst Davis has created 12.
Yes, defensively he's struggled this year but that's hardly surprising given he's been asked to play a certain way.
The best left back in the Championship this year (if the EFL team of the year is anything to go by) was Harrison Burrows, who got 6 assists compared to Davis' 18.
Replacing him with Townsend would be a massive downgrade. I doubt we'll find someone in the UK who would be in our price range and ready to go either. Maybe abroad.
Would need to be a huge fee to consider letting him go. [Post edited 22 May 13:14]
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| Davis on 13:15 - May 22 with 533 views | portmanking |
| Davis on 12:52 - May 22 by _clive_baker_ |
I think it would be a massive blow if he left. Fullbacks like him don't grow on trees, I think he's top class and a freak of nature physically. His ability to get forward and create is so important to how we've played and our journey up through the leagues under McKenna. He's not had as much licence to do it this season, but I'm (perhaps naively) hoping he will still be here next season.
Still, money talks. If someone puts £25m in front of our noses which would largely be pure PSR upside we might have to take it. |
I still think he's worth £20m+ even if we miss out on promotion next season. So, for me, he's under contract and we try and convince him to get us back up next year. He'd be £19m PSR profit in the summer of 2026 if we fail in that mission. | | | |
| Davis on 13:15 - May 22 with 531 views | itfc48 |
I wouldn't be surprised if the fee we want is higher than Forest want to pay.
Williams has done enough to be start next season as first choice. Yes, they'll have more games next season but will they want to spend that much on someone who's essentially going to start the season as a backup and would Leif want such a squad status? | | | |
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| Davis on 13:35 - May 22 with 468 views | Exiled2Surrey |
Surely Nuno needs to ask Danny Murphy's view before making such an idiotic move? The resident MOTD defensive guru can then tell the naive Forest boss that Leif is the reason we conceded so many goals... | | | |
| Davis on 13:53 - May 22 with 437 views | ArnieM |
| Davis on 12:56 - May 22 by hype313 |
Last time both were in the Championship, Davis got 20 Assists, Townsend got 3.
I'd prefer Leif on those stats. |
Yip his attacking qualities are second to none, quite agree. But he wasnt so hot in the defending aspect of his game . Often caught either up filed ( a victim of McKennas demand for him to always pile fowards).... Not sure you ever get a wing back that is very good at both aspects of the roile : Townsend has more / better defensive qualities ...Maybe Davis in front of Townsend eg further up the park in front of Townsend ? You get the best of both worlds ! |  |
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| Davis on 14:02 - May 22 with 410 views | CobboldCrusty |
| Davis on 13:07 - May 22 by tractorboy1978 |
You think teams didn't try and exploit him being a marauding full back last season? He dominated the entire left hand side for us and was phenomenal. 18 assists, a record for a defender in the Championship. He was the plus point for me vs Leicester, he looked back to his old self. I find it utterly mental that anyone would be anything other than devastated if he left in the summer. |
I think to be devastated would be to miss the bigger picture - it's just what happens |  | | |
| Davis on 14:20 - May 22 with 366 views | Wright1 |
It fascinates me that people don't realise that the reason he's in the team and the reason he's so far up the pitch is because McKenna rates him very highly, it is the role he is asked to play and it is key to how we purposely set up.
I'm certain McKenna is very aware of his shortcomings and would make a change to who plays that role or how we set up if he didn't think it was our best chance of getting a result. | | | |
| Davis on 14:20 - May 22 with 364 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| Davis on 14:02 - May 22 by CobboldCrusty |
I think to be devastated would be to miss the bigger picture - it's just what happens |
Yes, it's a consequence of relegation that other new/established Prem clubs come sniffing for your better players.
We may yet face enquiries for several others. We appear to be in a reasonable position not to suffer a firesale though, any leaving will be through an offer that meets our valuation.
I think a few Town fans need reminding we are back in the 2nd tier next season and concentrate on that rather than looking 2 seasons ahead. Davis would be the best attacking full back in the division next season, playing in a system where we should control the majority of possession.
I think realistically £15m is a base value but i'd be dissapointed if we didn't want £20m given there aren't really many players like him. | | | |
| Davis on 14:38 - May 22 with 316 views | Churchman |
| Davis on 12:17 - May 22 by chicoazul |
So weird how there is plenty of interest in him from the Premier League if he’s as bad as many TWTDers recently decided. Don’t these managers or chief execs even read this board? |
He’s not as bad as some of the social media warriors have decided. Sadly we’ve seen growing contempt and in some cases hate towards our players as this season has progressed, fortunately not reflected by the vast majority who actually attend games.
Davis is a terrific player and is certainly Premier League standard. He was not ‘found out’. He was exposed at times by the team’s collective inability to control games and play the way it wished to. On a number of occasions I saw him (and others) go piling up the field with basically no support. He’s better going forward than defending but I still think he’s a decent defender at PL level.
I hope he stays. If he wants to go then he leaves with my thanks but if I were the club I would be looking for a fee of £30m minimum. With transfer inflation and the money going into the PL that’s punt money/squad member fee or chump change depending on the size of club.
Not many players even at the top level can do what he does from that position. |  | | |
| Davis on 14:39 - May 22 with 314 views | Horsham |
| Davis on 13:53 - May 22 by ArnieM |
Yip his attacking qualities are second to none, quite agree. But he wasnt so hot in the defending aspect of his game . Often caught either up filed ( a victim of McKennas demand for him to always pile fowards).... Not sure you ever get a wing back that is very good at both aspects of the roile : Townsend has more / better defensive qualities ...Maybe Davis in front of Townsend eg further up the park in front of Townsend ? You get the best of both worlds ! |
4-4-2? |  | | |
| Davis on 14:41 - May 22 with 307 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
Always felt that Hutchinson and Davis are the two we just need to cling on to this summer. Build around their strengths and complete the puzzle to aid them.
Delap is the obvious decent sale. O'Shea or Greaves could generate a 'what we paid' fee and then you could possibly move on Muric (if he's no longer in the plans) as another for a respectable fee. If we need to trade, then there are 3 or 4 players excluding Hutchinson and Davis, who can be sold.
I like Townsend, but replacing Davis like for like is a ridiculous challenge for how we play. Townsend is not like for like or better. |  |
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| Davis on 14:41 - May 22 with 297 views | SomethingBlue |
| Davis on 12:17 - May 22 by chicoazul |
So weird how there is plenty of interest in him from the Premier League if he’s as bad as many TWTDers recently decided. Don’t these managers or chief execs even read this board? |
Language has lost its meaning these days, it's all about competitive disgust. Davis has been talked by quite a few into being much, much worse than he's really been. | |
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| Davis on 14:47 - May 22 with 274 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Davis on 13:53 - May 22 by ArnieM |
Yip his attacking qualities are second to none, quite agree. But he wasnt so hot in the defending aspect of his game . Often caught either up filed ( a victim of McKennas demand for him to always pile fowards).... Not sure you ever get a wing back that is very good at both aspects of the roile : Townsend has more / better defensive qualities ...Maybe Davis in front of Townsend eg further up the park in front of Townsend ? You get the best of both worlds ! |
Townsend will be 33 at a point next season. He is a solid enough backup left back, but wont be starting in a team looking for automatic promotion, let alone out of position.
Greaves will be more than capable on the left side of that defence next season. |  |
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| Davis on 15:09 - May 22 with 241 views | BiGDonnie |
| Davis on 12:16 - May 22 by ArnieM |
I prefer Townsend both defensively and he can get forward and put in a decent cross too. So if Davis does jump ship, fine . and good luck to him.. |
FFS. Wouldn't expect anything less from you Arnie! |  |
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| Davis on 15:09 - May 22 with 240 views | GavTWTD |
I think I'll be ok with either scenario.
Yes he was probably our best player in the Championship but with him in the team it kinda dictates how we play. One of the criticisms levelled at KM has been that we have no Plan B and that might be down to Leif. He's undroppable but leaves us exposed.
So, I'd be happier if he stays, but if we had north of £25m in the bank we can reinvest and if we intend to "recruit for the league above" it should be fine... |  |
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| Davis on 15:21 - May 22 with 200 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Davis on 14:41 - May 22 by IPSWICHFANITFC |
Always felt that Hutchinson and Davis are the two we just need to cling on to this summer. Build around their strengths and complete the puzzle to aid them.
Delap is the obvious decent sale. O'Shea or Greaves could generate a 'what we paid' fee and then you could possibly move on Muric (if he's no longer in the plans) as another for a respectable fee. If we need to trade, then there are 3 or 4 players excluding Hutchinson and Davis, who can be sold.
I like Townsend, but replacing Davis like for like is a ridiculous challenge for how we play. Townsend is not like for like or better. |
Yes. Delap is 100% off and the next contenders are Davis, Omari and O'Shea. If we can hang on to 2 of those I will be delighted. If we hang on to all 3 we have done incredibly. I think Omari could well be the best player in the division but Davis feels the most important to me in terms of the attacking outlet/assists he brings at that level. | | | |
| Davis on 15:45 - May 22 with 155 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
| Davis on 15:21 - May 22 by tractorboy1978 |
Yes. Delap is 100% off and the next contenders are Davis, Omari and O'Shea. If we can hang on to 2 of those I will be delighted. If we hang on to all 3 we have done incredibly. I think Omari could well be the best player in the division but Davis feels the most important to me in terms of the attacking outlet/assists he brings at that level. |
The Delap sale will take the pressure off having to do anything else immediately. Ultimately the 3 you have mentioned all have 3-4 years left on their contract here, but if they want to go, then everyone has a price, but the price needs to be met. I imagine we will be hard to deal with and not move from the figure set.
Hutchinson will be the best player in the league if he stays. If we want to go back up at the first time of asking, he's the one who's going to drive us forward. It would also take a bit of pressure off Jack Clarke and Philogene at the start of the season too, but they will need to come good.
Leif's quality on the ball is overlooked. We're lucky that we've got a full back who can put a ball on a plate for a forward. Townsend doesn't have a bad delivery himself, but Leif's chance creation output is very good. Tough to replace and I actually felt last summer, the lad to get in the building was Burrows from Peterborough before he went to Sheff Utd. It would've made this summer a lot better knowing that if Davis was to move on, we'd have someone ready to fill the void. | |
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| Davis on 15:58 - May 22 with 129 views | lazyblue |
| Davis on 12:16 - May 22 by ArnieM |
I prefer Townsend both defensively and he can get forward and put in a decent cross too. So if Davis does jump ship, fine . and good luck to him.. |
Townsend is no way near the same as Leif would be next season . | | | |
| Davis on 16:03 - May 22 with 122 views | longtimefan |
| Davis on 14:38 - May 22 by Churchman |
He’s not as bad as some of the social media warriors have decided. Sadly we’ve seen growing contempt and in some cases hate towards our players as this season has progressed, fortunately not reflected by the vast majority who actually attend games.
Davis is a terrific player and is certainly Premier League standard. He was not ‘found out’. He was exposed at times by the team’s collective inability to control games and play the way it wished to. On a number of occasions I saw him (and others) go piling up the field with basically no support. He’s better going forward than defending but I still think he’s a decent defender at PL level.
I hope he stays. If he wants to go then he leaves with my thanks but if I were the club I would be looking for a fee of £30m minimum. With transfer inflation and the money going into the PL that’s punt money/squad member fee or chump change depending on the size of club.
Not many players even at the top level can do what he does from that position. |
I think a lot of the problems on the left come from a couple of issues. Early in the season Davis was not on the same wavelength as Greaves where previously he had a pretty solid understanding with Burgess. Certainly at least a couple of goals came from Greaves being pulled out of position while Davis was up the pitch. Since Christmas and the loss of Szmodics, he's had little in the way of protection in front of him. Also, none of our current midfield have read the game and filled in for him when he burst forward as well as Luongo did previously in League 1 and the Championship. | | | |
| Davis on 16:14 - May 22 with 109 views | chicoazul |
| Davis on 14:41 - May 22 by SomethingBlue |
Language has lost its meaning these days, it's all about competitive disgust. Davis has been talked by quite a few into being much, much worse than he's really been. |
I have never heard the perfect phrase “competitive disgust” before, you should be a writer or something. I intend to steal it and pass it off as my own in all polite company going forward. |  |
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